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21 minutes ago, danielprates said:

And its close isn't it? Two weeks!

 

..... er, I mean. Really two weeks it seams, not the jokey two weeks.

 

I would think March or April to be honest. Jason stated earlier that they would be one or two patches before they would release the D9 and 262.

 

Grt M

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3 hours ago, Doggo said:

I can't wait for the salt on the multiplayer servers when the 262's get jumped by P-51's and Tempests near their fields while trying to take off and land. 

 

 

See, though I understand that historically this was the downfall of the 262s, the only reason that was an available response for the allies was due to the allies basically having complete air superiority over europe by the time the 262s starting showing up.

 

In the sim, that won't be the case at all: Red and Blue numbers will be equal, and neither side will have the advantage of having the freedom to roam with impunity. Under such circumstances, the Me262 will thrive a LOT better than it did in RL. 

 

Imagine if the Me262 had appeared in significant numbers in early 1944, before the LW was depleted and the allies dominated the skies. That's the scenario we will be facing. The LW will be able to cover their airfield (just like both sides now do when vulchers come around), and so the Me262s will have time to take off and gain altitude, and they WILL be able to dictate when they make contact... the 262 will be a major threat indeed.

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30 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 

See, though I understand that historically this was the downfall of the 262s, the only reason that was an available response for the allies was due to the allies basically having complete air superiority over europe by the time the 262s starting showing up.

 

In the sim, that won't be the case at all: Red and Blue numbers will be equal, and neither side will have the advantage of having the freedom to roam with impunity. Under such circumstances, the Me262 will thrive a LOT better than it did in RL. 

 

Imagine if the Me262 had appeared in significant numbers in early 1944, before the LW was depleted and the allies dominated the skies. That's the scenario we will be facing. The LW will be able to cover their airfield (just like both sides now do when vulchers come around), and so the Me262s will have time to take off and gain altitude, and they WILL be able to dictate when they make contact... the 262 will be a major threat indeed.

 

from how its now youll be lucky if numbers are eaqual, it will probably be heavy on blue side because of K4s and 262s, and how its now youll have unlimited numbers of 262s, so we can easy see in MP how it would look if in ww2 they had numbers and pilots to fight of allieds. Usealy you have now 190s low alt vulching bases  and 190s at high alt bnz reds climbing below them close to spawn bases on almost every mission, that will just be replaced by 262s, players will not be able to reach their landing or take of bases as they will be constantly fighting outnumbered, and others will then just avoid playing.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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3 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

from how its now youll be lucky if numbers are eaqual, it will probably be heavy on blue side because of K4s and 262s, and how its now youll have unlimited numbers of 262s, so we can easy see in MP how it would look if in ww2 they had numbers and pilots to fight of allieds. Usealy you have now 190s low alt vulching bases  and 190s at high alt bnz reds climbing below them on almost every mission, that will just be replaced by 262s.

 

Well, to be fair, we can hope that once BoBP is out the servers will make balanced scenarios, and not allow unlimited numbers of Me262s. For example, on WoL right now you can barely fly the FN, due to its limited quantiy.

 

We can expect the same for the 262s and hopefully K4s. But they certainly will be a bigger threat than they were in '45, since the allies won't have complete air superiority. Which, ironically, is why the allies didn't bother rushing their best hardware to the front lines by then... there was no need. You don't need a fighter that can beat the 262 or the K4, when you already have total control of the air and can vulch them. :)

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I guess it will be a tad bit one-sided in MP with 44/45 planes. You certainly will have ahistorical results there. Three historical factors are out of the equation on MP:

 

1.) Numerical superiority of allied planes

2.) Qualitative inferiority of axis pilots

3.) Limitation of fuel for axis planes

 

you could add even a fourth factor: instead of high altitude engagements (8-10.000 metres), most engagements will take place at mid-low altitude below 5.000 metres.

So MP results will be most likely more representative for a "what if" scenario. 

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3 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

from how its now youll be lucky if numbers are eaqual, it will probably be heavy on blue side because of K4s and 262s, and how its now youll have unlimited numbers of 262s, so we can easy see in MP how it would look if in ww2 they had numbers and pilots to fight of allieds. Usealy you have now 190s low alt vulching bases  and 190s at high alt bnz reds climbing below them close to spawn bases on almost every mission, that will just be replaced by 262s, players will not be able to reach their landing or take of bases as they will be constantly fighting outnumbered, and others will then just avoid playing.

 

 

There are way, WAY too many anglos who are itching to fly the American and British aircraft for there to be so heavy an imbalance in favor of the Axis like we have now.

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2 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 

Well, to be fair, we can hope that once BoBP is out the servers will make balanced scenarios, and not allow unlimited numbers of Me262s. For example, on WoL right now you can barely fly the FN, due to its limited quantiy.

 

We can expect the same for the 262s and hopefully K4s. But they certainly will be a bigger threat than they were in '45, since the allies won't have complete air superiority. Which, ironically, is why the allies didn't bother rushing their best hardware to the front lines by then... there was no need. You don't need a fighter that can beat the 262 or the K4, when you already have total control of the air and can vulch them. :)

oh i remenber panic that was when La5FN come out, and then it was limited and used only on 2-3 missions out of 20 on WoL. And only 3 months after it was out 109G14 come to again make balance.but look how it is with 109K4s with 1.98mod, its unlimited and same ppl who complained that La5FNs will ruin MP have no problem with unlimited 1.98K4s lol. I expect same behavior when 262 comes, unlimited availability, and nothing on other side to match its game abilitys, as like you say historicly there was no need to use Allied jets, so what you get in MP is just fantasy no mather if mission is set to have historical airplanes or frontlines, if numbers dont face state of ww2 then its not same.

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1 minute ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 But they certainly will be a bigger threat than they were in '45, since the allies won't have complete air superiority. Which, ironically, is why the allies didn't bother rushing their best hardware to the front lines by then... there was no need. 

If only they could have seen the future and how unbalanced MP is in our little niche. They would have rushed those aircraft into front line service. alas.

 

2 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

There are way, WAY too many anglos who are itching to fly the American and British aircraft for there to be so heavy an imbalance in favor of the Axis like we have now.

Until the novelty wears off and folk, as they tend to do, drift towards the better aircraft.

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6 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

 

There are way, WAY too many anglos who are itching to fly the American and British aircraft for there to be so heavy an imbalance in favor of the Axis like we have now.

I tought the same but from what i see nothing changed, and complexity of engine menagment on Allied airplanes combined with realise of airplanes will make things more in favor of axis on servers. P-47 was hot at start, but now its just hangar display airplane, same will be with 51 and 38, only tempest will have game apeal of strong guns, fast speed and easy engine menagment compared to usaf stuff. And its long way to tempest.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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8 minutes ago, Rolling_Thunder said:

Until the novelty wears off and folk, as they tend to do, drift towards the better aircraft.

 

You're probably right, but I think the national mythos combined with it being easier to team up with people of your own native language group might be enough to help moderate that drift.  Maybe.

 

7 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

I tought the same but from what i see nothing changed, and complexity of engine menagment on Allied airplanes combined with realise of airplanes will make things more in favor of axis on servers.

 

 

How complex is the engine management for the P-51, Tempest, P-38?

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31 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

...

 

 

How complex is the engine management for the P-51, Tempest, P-38?

 

Just look for timers and limitations P-40, P-39 and P-47 have, same to be expected to continue to any usaf airplane, so P-51 and P-38 will probably have all thouse extream limits in combat and wep use, so your mostly flying continues setting and braking engines in fights if you dont have your timers calculated correctly.

 

Tempest should have same as Spit 9, unlimited combat seting where you have good power and short emergancy of 5 or 10min for extra boost, so thats mutch in line of how you have on axis side long combat where you can have good speed and power to df and then short boost in emergancy when needed, and more easyer to not brake in df or not to owerwelm players and constantly think what MP and rpm and for how long sec i used it 2min ago like it is on usaf engines now in game.

 

How limits work on usaf airplanes in game, they make it so they are most time consuming and destracting in fights, so players tend to go for easyer and that for red will be tempest on high performers, or just go on axis side like its now.

 

in MP lack of historicly used Spitfire Mk.XIVs will be felt, fo SP part it dosent mather mutch as SP missions tend to be historical unlike MP where all just fly most easyer and best performing stuff.

 

 

EDIT:

 

and not to be missunderstod, this unbalaced and unlimited use of airplanes is not falt of Devs , they select what to make based on SP and campaign like it should be, its server hosts mission makers and players who should make better enviroment for both sides, making missions that favor one side will in end be bad as other side players will just stop playing, and players who just stack one side and dont wont to balance or change sides will ultimatly just end up playing alone, but some dont mined that from how it looks some times on some servers lol

Edited by 77.CountZero
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52 minutes ago, 7.GShAP/Silas said:

 

How complex is the engine management for the P-51, Tempest, P-38?

 

It seems many American planes have safety marks on the Manifold Pressure and RPM gauges for continuous mode.  In that respect they're not too hard.  Keeping the markers set while diving and climbing can be a bit more of a challenge.  As far as 'timers' go for combat power and higher, I couldn't tell you.   

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4 hours ago, smink1701 said:

I will be excited after checking FM.  It was not known for turning ability so it may be nice to look at but not to fly like the Jug. 

 

3 hours ago, Legioneod said:

 

 

The Jug can outturn everything in the game currently.

Its hard to shoot something down when you’re running. 

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5 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

 

Well, 234 was considered to be included in BOBP.

 

There were two reconnaissance missions by Ar-234s overnight 31 Dec to 01 January. None took part in the actual raid according to the books I read on the subject.

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41 minutes ago, smink1701 said:

 

Its hard to shoot something down when you’re running. 

Not sure what you mean by that. Jug can't run from anything unless at high altitude.

Edited by Legioneod

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I wonder if when the 262 is released we'll also get some BIG AZZ CONCRETE AIRFIELDS to land them on.

 

Does a 262 need a big azz concrete runway?

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2 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

in MP lack of historicly used Spitfire Mk.XIVs will be felt, fo SP part it dosent mather mutch as SP missions tend to be historical unlike MP where all just fly most easyer and best performing stuff.

 

That! We would gain double benefit from a Spitfire XIV collector. Not only would it add to the historicy of the sim in SP, because as we all know it was there on the continent in significant numbers starting with 402 Sqd in 9/44 and closely followed by 130 Sqd, but furthermore would it help to "even the odds" in MP. Further, I know much discussed already, 150 octane fuel would also increase both historicy in SP and balance in MP. For me, with regards to both, Spit XIV and 150 oct fuel, it is a win-win for everybody.

 

7 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

I wonder if when the 262 is released we'll also get some BIG AZZ CONCRETE AIRFIELDS to land them on.

 

Does a 262 need a big azz concrete runway?

 

Yep!

Edited by sevenless
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6 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Yep!

 

 

Then there is hope.  :cool:

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1 minute ago, CanadaOne said:

 

 

Then there is hope.  :cool:

 

Sure. Hesepe and Achmer had those. I´m not sure whether concrete or asphalt runway, but surely long enough and hard enough to allow Me 262s to operate.

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An AR234 would be great as a collector's I would buy it, however we would need am allied collector's to balance. A mosquito would be perfect.

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13 hours ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

 

I would think March or April to be honest. Jason stated earlier that they would be one or two patches before they would release the D9 and 262.

 

Grt M

 

I could swear I read something about new releases in 2 weeks. Wishful reading?!

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1 minute ago, danielprates said:

 

I could swear I read something about new releases in 2 weeks. Wishful reading?!

 

I hope not 😉. But i think we need to have some patience. 

 

 Grt M 

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You had that in CloD, human players could take any aaa (on ship or ground) in server mission, and usealy human was more accurate as he learns with time, AI is always same :)

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1 hour ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

 

I hope not 😉. But i think we need to have some patience. 

 

 Grt M 

They said that new content(i hope planes)will be ready in a few weeks. Its 2-4 weeks. Mid March max for schwalbe :)

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3 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

They said that new content(i hope planes)will be ready in a few weeks. Its 2-4 weeks. Mid March max for schwalbe :)

 

I might have missed that. Good to hear. Looking forward to both planes. 

 

Grt M

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1 hour ago, Voidhunger said:

They said that new content(i hope planes)will be ready in a few weeks. Its 2-4 weeks. Mid March max for schwalbe :)

 

Tank Crew and Flying Circus. 

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1 hour ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

Tank Crew and Flying Circus. 

Thats possible :)

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17 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

I tought the same but from what i see nothing changed, and complexity of engine menagment on Allied airplanes combined with realise of airplanes will make things more in favor of axis on servers. P-47 was hot at start, but now its just hangar display airplane, same will be with 51 and 38, only tempest will have game apeal of strong guns, fast speed and easy engine menagment compared to usaf stuff. And its long way to tempest.

 

Well, concerning the P-47, the bigger issue is how undermodeled it is currently. If it matched the reality more (an excellent energy fighter with great performance at high altitude, with poor turning capabilities), it owuld probably be more popular in the first place.

 

Then again, we don't have a realistic scenario yet. When the same map that allows unlimited P-47 allows unlimited K-4s, it's no surprise people will gravitate towards the fighters that give them a chance (the Spit).

 

We'll see how things go when BoBP map comes out and WoL/TAW/Coconut's starts making scenarios.

14 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

That! We would gain double benefit from a Spitfire XIV collector. Not only would it add to the historicy of the sim in SP, because as we all know it was there on the continent in significant numbers starting with 402 Sqd in 9/44 and closely followed by 130 Sqd, but furthermore would it help to "even the odds" in MP. Further, I know much discussed already, 150 octane fuel would also increase both historicy in SP and balance in MP. For me, with regards to both, Spit XIV and 150 oct fuel, it is a win-win for everybody.

 

Absolutely agreed. The Spit XIV is a no-brainer for sure (much like the FN was for BoK). 150 Otane for Spit IX will also help.

14 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

I wonder if when the 262 is released we'll also get some BIG AZZ CONCRETE AIRFIELDS to land them on.

 

Does a 262 need a big azz concrete runway?

 

That's a good question... if it does, then that will impose some limitations at least. Coupled with limited numbers of 262, leading those pilots to relay care about making it home and landing safely, and of course the Tempest, and it might not be so bad.

 

Limited numbers is absolutely essential, mind you... because otherwise it's not like surviving a landing back at the home runway will matter much.

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14 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

I wonder if when the 262 is released we'll also get some BIG AZZ CONCRETE AIRFIELDS to land them on.

 

 

The biggest ones around.  Autobahn!

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16 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

Limited numbers is absolutely essential, mind you... because otherwise it's not like surviving a landing back at the home runway will matter much.

 

Limited numbers are essential for Spitfire Tempest, P-38 Spit XIV (if its ever added) and Spitfire IX as well...

 

Be careful what you wish for, ie.. when asking for limited availability, servers probably will not apply the approach not just to one side but both.

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Just now, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

Limited numbers are essential for Spitfire Tempest, P-38 Spit XIV (if its ever added) and Spitfire IX as well...

 

Be careful what you wish for, ie.. when asking for limited availability, servers probably will not apply the approach not just to one side but both.

 

Limited numbers apply for _everything_, nobody was suggesting otherwise, even the Yaks have a limit on WoL after all. Of course, the numbers for the 262 would likely be more limited than every other aircraft, given the actual limited quantities involved (not to mention scenario balance). On the allied side, I imagine the Spit XIV would be limited (like the FN is on current maps), though beyond that I can't think of any particular airframes that should particularly more limited than Yaks on 1943 maps.

 

But if we want to be historically accurate, the allies would have far greater aircraft pool than the LW. :) Not that this is likely going to happen, mind you, but the 262 will certainly need to be far more limited than anything else.

 

What will be interesting to see will be what the mission designers will do with AI-driven B-25s. Having high altitude bomber escort objectives will be very interesting, even if the engine can't replicate proper strategic bombing, it'd be great to has some limited form of high altitude escort/shoot down objectives, to give everyone a reason to take the fight up high.

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As I play VRwe don’t see these screens .Could you take a moment and shoot a screenie of same? Thanks!😍

Edited by Blitzen
Misspelled word

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2 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

Limited numbers are essential for Spitfire Tempest, P-38 Spit XIV (if its ever added) and Spitfire IX as well...

 

Be careful what you wish for, ie.. when asking for limited availability, servers probably will not apply the approach not just to one side but both.

 

Yes limited number for all airplanes is way to go, like it is now on WoL, you cant have server runing all unlimited and pretend your doing something historical, its just fantasy scenario then.

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On 2/6/2019 at 2:29 PM, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 

See, though I understand that historically this was the downfall of the 262s, the only reason that was an available response for the allies was due to the allies basically having complete air superiority over europe by the time the 262s starting showing up.

 

In the sim, that won't be the case at all: Red and Blue numbers will be equal, and neither side will have the advantage of having the freedom to roam with impunity. Under such circumstances, the Me262 will thrive a LOT better than it did in RL. 

 

Imagine if the Me262 had appeared in significant numbers in early 1944, before the LW was depleted and the allies dominated the skies. That's the scenario we will be facing. The LW will be able to cover their airfield (just like both sides now do when vulchers come around), and so the Me262s will have time to take off and gain altitude, and they WILL be able to dictate when they make contact... the 262 will be a major threat indeed.

Should it not have prospered far greater in such a target rich environment if it was at all that uber? 

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21 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Should it not have prospered far greater in such a target rich environment if it was at all that uber? 

It wasn't employed as a fighter.

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38 minutes ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Should it not have prospered far greater in such a target rich environment if it was at all that uber? 

 

Well... the 262 wasn't that "uber" as a general purpose fighter - flight endurance was short, acceleration under 450km/h was slow, engines were very fragile and much higher velocities induced even higher G-forces. The latter is overlooked phenomena but G loads increase V*V in turns. To match the same turn of the 600km/h prop in 262 going 900km/h you will need to pull 2.25x more G; so you might slow down but then you could get out-accelerated and lose continuous turn fight. BnZ isn't going to be that easy, either. Resetting an attack will take longer time and distance thus the target (if aware) will have some time to accelerate and prepare for next evasion maneuver.

 

IRL the major point of the 262 was the ability to be able to ignore escort fighters and operate with (almost) impunity due to speed.

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Well, for me the Me-262 will be the return to airline flight simulation 🙂

 

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6 hours ago, Rolling_Thunder said:

It wasn't employed as a fighter.

 

Correct. It was a bomber interceptor (A1) and in its A2 variation a bomber. Unless its air targets were flying straight and level it was very hard to hit anything with its cannons. Even Aces like Krupinsky (197 kills) or Galland (104 kills) had problems with its high closing speed. Günther Lützow (110 kills) wasn´t able to adapt at all and Barkhorn (302 kills) didn´t like it very much also. 

 

You need to fly it to its strenght, attack bomber formations (A1) or use it as a quick bomber (A2). You won´t have any fun using it in a pure fighter role, because it wasn´t designed for that purpose.

Edited by sevenless

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I think many people are expecting it to be a seal clubbing ticket to impunity.

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Im not keen on the 262. It was a troubled design. It was clearly the fastest and most heavily armed fighter, but it's aerodynamics and controls did not match it's speed. Although vulnerable, it was great at slashing through the P-51 cover and destroying strategic bombers. It wasn't a good fighter though.

Here are my expectations:

- limited high-speed maneuverability due to compressibility

- slow accelerator

- vulnerable

- delicate engines requiring very gradual throttle movements

- very visible in the dogfight arena due to its size and engine smoke

 

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