Me 410 and Mosquito

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

Not really putting this as a suggestion, but more that I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the pros and cons of perhaps, maybe, hopefully.....seeing these as premium twins we can buy in the future. I would love to see both...but what kind of online scenarios could we expect? What kind of SP missions (with lack of heavies for the 410)? Please try to stay on topic as I'm sure there will be many opinions.

 

Ready....

 

Discuss!

Edited December 31, 2018 by =AWACS=CG_Justin

[Finkeren]

I’d like to see them. We need something to break the relative monotony of single-engined, single seat fighters. 

 

As to how they would fit into the game: Pretty much the same as the Bf 110G-2, as primarilly a fast ground pounder with a respectable payload with some secondary capabilities as a fighter/interceptor.

[Juri_JS]

Without heavy bombers the Me-410 would only be useful when we get a Channel Front map in the future. In this area the Me-410 was used as a fast bomber.

[6FG_Big_Al]

I'm happy about every plane that finds its way into the series.

Even if the Me 410 would be only limitedly optimized for the game. It should still have the possibility as an attacker, which makes it quite valuable, even if there are no big birds yet.

[40plus]

Two planes from my all times top five. I would jump at the chance to buy these as extras.

Edited December 31, 2018 by pfrances

[danielprates]

The mosquito, at least, operated in just about every capacity and could be used on almost all mission types, save actual dogfighting. It makes ALL SENSE. The 410 though ....

[LukeFF]

The 410 make absolutely zero sense with the map borders and current aircraft set. There were practically none left in service by the second half of '44.

[Field-Ops]

I'd want to see it in an Italy 43-44 scenario or Berlin 44-45 Russian front. Either arent likely to happen if the Pacific gets green lit.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'd like to see a fast bomber pack which could include the 410, Mosquito and a couple of others. Outside of that I don't see the 410 coming to fruition any time soon.

 

And reading between the lines, I don't see the Pacific happening this coming year so I'm with Field Ops, Med 43-44 would be a fantastic backup plan which I have detailed and argued elsewhere.

Edited December 31, 2018 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[BlitzPig_EL]

13 minutes ago, Field-Ops said:

I'd want to see it in an Italy 43-44 scenario or Berlin 44-45 Russian front. Either arent likely to happen if the Pacific gets green lit.

 

Well, when we do go to the Pacific, there is always this...

 

 

The Ki 45 Toryu

[Kurfurst]

13 hours ago, danielprates said:

The mosquito, at least, operated in just about every capacity and could be used on almost all mission types, save actual dogfighting. It makes ALL SENSE. The 410 though ....

 

... has been designed as a multirole fast bomber / heavy fighter from the start.

[CountZero]

19 hours ago, =AWACS=CG_Justin said:

Not really putting this as a suggestion, but more that I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on the pros and cons of perhaps, maybe, hopefully.....seeing these as premium twins we can buy in the future. I would love to see both...but what kind of online scenarios could we expect? What kind of SP missions (with lack of heavies for the 410)? Please try to stay on topic as I'm sure there will be many opinions.

 

Ready....

 

Discuss!

 

From what i could see both airplanes saw use over Sicily and Italy for big part of war.

 

2.(F)/122 recon unit used few Me-410A and later B models throughout the war there, and at short periods II. and III./ZG1 used them also (and Me-210Cs, 10./ZG26 used also Ju-88C6s that are also quite interesting airplane for this game). 

RAF no.23 and no.600 night fighter squadrons used Mosquitos NF Mk.IVs and later Mk.XIXs ( also they first used Beaufighter Mk.IVFs ), for intruder and night fighter missions over Italy.

USAF nightfighter squadrons (414,415,416 and 417 at various periods of time) used also Mosquitos NF Mk.IV and later Mk.XIXs (also mixed with Beaufighters Mk.IVFs at begining of op there, and near end of war they used P-61s).

 

So they could easy fit some Italy scenarious, used in SP campaign for historical ops, and online for more fun ground attack strafe and bomb runs ?

 

Check this suggestion for future GB DLC, if you didnt:
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/42064-battle-of-rome/

[danielprates]

6 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

... has been designed as a multirole fast bomber / heavy fighter from the start.

 

Yeah, and given the effort it is to include a new plane in BoX, that makes it kinda, well, not  enough of a niche-filler to be worth the effort, me thinks. The mosquito, which is much more a jack-of-all-trades, is still far from being included in the game, so the 410 is probably even farther. Too bad though!

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

On 12/31/2018 at 2:54 PM, Juri_JS said:

Without heavy bombers the Me-410 would only be useful when we get a Channel Front map in the future. In this area the Me-410 was used as a fast bomber.

 

Me 410 would be a pretty good attacker, with 2 x 500 Kg in an internal bomb bay and pretty big list of possible modifications, given the combination of cannons, rockets and bombs. With the 50mm or twin 30mm it would be the best tank killer in the sim. 

 

20 hours ago, LukeFF said:

The 410 make absolutely zero sense with the map borders and current aircraft set. There were practically none left in service by the second half of '44.

 

Jason wants to make a late Yak-9/Yak-3 as well, even if they dont fit in any current campaign. The Me 410 would be very appreciated for the fans of this plane and its versatiliy for MP campaigns like TAW. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

Love to see both. The Me410 is tough to fit in historically into scenarios but it'd be awfully useful to have in the aircraft line-up. Reminds me that I don't spend nearly enough time with the Bf110G-2... time to change that

 

The Mosquito would be magnificent to have. Would be very useful in the Bodenplatte map confines and scenario and it did see use pretty far and wide in different capacities. I am curious though if people want to see the FB.VI, the B.IV or other versions. IMHO, the FB.VI is the one I'd most want to see.

[SCG_OpticFlow]

2 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

 

Me 410 would be a pretty good attacker, with 2 x 500 Kg in an internal bomb bay and pretty big list of possible modifications, given the combination of cannons, rockets and bombs. With the 50mm or twin 30mm it would be the best tank killer in the sim. 

 

 

Jason wants to make a late Yak-9/Yak-3 as well, even if they dont fit in any current campaign. The Me 410 would be very appreciated for the fans of this plane and its versatiliy for MP campaigns like TAW. 

 

IMO the most important equipment on the Me-410 would be the StuVi dive bombing sight + the BZA computing device that continuously calculates the bomb impact point taking in account speed, altitude and dive angle. Ju-88 A4 should have it too... With those working you'd be able to hit accurately in a shallow dive without diving too low and close to the AAA.

[danielprates]

53 minutes ago, OpticFlow said:

StuVi dive bombing sight + the BZA computing device that continuously calculates the bomb impact point taking in account speed, altitude and dive angle. Ju-88 A4 should have it too...

 

It was there accurately depicted in il21946, remember? I am not totally sure about when it entered widespread service but I imagine that by the time of BoK it was available, maybe earlier (to me it looks like a thing compatible with 1943's tech), somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Edited January 1, 2019 by danielprates

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

The Me 410 would be very appreciated for the fans of this plane and its versatiliy for MP campaigns like TAW. 

 

It's gotta be relevant in career mode, or else it just isn't worth modeling (IMO, of course, but Jason made it clear recently that MP users are a very small portion of the those who play the game).

[CountZero]

Me-410s just dont fit in any map area we have now in game from what i could see, while Mosquitos could fit BoBp for SP also. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

There are plenty of German aircraft already. Mosquito for sure and a Typhoon. I'm of the belief that just because 1 side gets a collector the other shouldn't automatically get 1. There are  2 spitfires and a Tempest on the way. 3 British aircraft. Let's fill out the Western allies.

[ShamrockOneFive]

1 hour ago, Rolling_Thunder said:

There are plenty of German aircraft already. Mosquito for sure and a Typhoon. I'm of the belief that just because 1 side gets a collector the other shouldn't automatically get 1. There are  2 spitfires and a Tempest on the way. 3 British aircraft. Let's fill out the Western allies.

 

That's a good point. I don't know how upset folks would be if a pair of Collector Planes came out and they focused exclusively on the Allies?

 

I still maintain that the best bet for an extra Luftwaffe aircraft to fit into the Bodenplatte timeframe (until April 1st, 1945) is the Ar234. Bomber. Jet. It's not as flexible as the Me410 but it has the advantage of being part of the air battles during this time.

 

There's tons on the Allied side that directly apply to this battle too. Typhoon, the Mossie, A-20G (and A-26), the list goes on. All interesting aircraft. I'm sure it comes down to time.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

51 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I still maintain that the best bet for an extra Luftwaffe aircraft to fit into the Bodenplatte timeframe (until April 1st, 1945) is the Ar234. Bomber. Jet. It's not as flexible as the Me410 but it has the advantage of being part of the air battles during this time.

Not to mention that it's a very famous aircraft.

 

51 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I don't know how upset folks would be if a pair of Collector Planes came out and they focused exclusively on the Allies?

I would only expect outrage if the pair were to provide the Allies with unprecedented capabilities that Axis pilots could not hope to match in MP.

 

Otherwise, the additions could be rationalized as an effort to expand the Western Allied plane set towards the size of the Soviet and German sets.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[Field-Ops]

1 hour ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Otherwise, the additions could be rationalized as an effort to expand the Western Allied plane set towards the size of the Soviet and German sets.

 

That can come in the form of other theaters proper instead of more collectors. Italy, Normandy and any pacific campaign would fulfill that duty. 

[Dutchvdm]

3 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

That's a good point. I don't know how upset folks would be if a pair of Collector Planes came out and they focused exclusively on the Allies

 

I'm pretty LW minded, but i do realize that at some point there aren't that many relevant option's left. I don't want them to shoehorn in super irrelevant aircraft just for the sake of number balancing. 

 

That doesn't mean there are still some LW aircraft that i would like to see. 

 

Bf-109 G6 modifications for late model (MW-50, Erlahaube)

Bf-109 G10

Bf-110 F2

Fw-189

Ju-87 B/R

Hs-123

Me-410

Ar-234

 

That's all of them i can think of. 

 

Grt M

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I'm of the opinion that collector planes do not need to be tied to a specific theater.  Of course it would be a bonus if they did but I see collector planes as wild cards that are there for fun. Remember the A3 didn't fit in at first...

 

[Tyberan]

If we want some more twins, what about the he-177 technically a dive bomber ?. We could have random engine fires as well.

 

Seriously I would buy a mosquito or some more variants of the ju88

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Tyberan
H

[-TBC-AeroAce]

3 hours ago, Tyberan said:

If we want some more twins, what about the he-177 technically a dive bomber ?. We could have random engine fires as well.

 

Seriously I would buy a mosquito or some more variants of the ju88

 

 

I detect sarcasm but isn't the 177 four engines? 

 

EDIT I'm wrong. I was thinking of another plane. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by AeroAce

[Rjel]

13 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 IMHO, the FB.VI is the one I'd most want to see.

Yes please. The fighter/bomber version would be most appreciated. 

[Panthera]

11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It's gotta be relevant in career mode, or else it just isn't worth modeling (IMO, of course, but Jason made it clear recently that MP users are a very small portion of the those who play the game).

 

I'm sure the MP community will grow fast once more aircraft get added to the game. The MP crowd for IL2'46 was huge in its prime, so I'd expect a similar number for this sim once we get just half that number of aircraft available. 

[Dutchvdm]

1 hour ago, AeroAce said:

I'm of the opinion that collector planes do not need to be tied to a specific theater.  Of course it would be a bonus if they did but I see collector planes as wild cards that are there for fun. Remember the A3 didn't fit in at first...

 

 

I agree with LukeFF here. The La-5 was a great collector's plane because it belonged in that area. The A3 feels like a weird addition and still does not fit in. I think it's fine if collector planes fill a nice role like the U-2 or Ju-52, but it should at least present in one of the four theater's we currently have. 

 

Grt M 

[Matt]

If we're getting a scenario the Me 410 might fit it, i'm pretty sure it will be part of the regular planeset of that expansion anyway.

 

So while i don't think that a collector plane must've been historically present during one of the currently avaliable theaters, i don't think it needs to be added as a collector plane.

 

Mosquito + Ar 234 would be a better fit imho.

[=RvE=Windmills]

3 hours ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

 

I'm pretty LW minded, but i do realize that at some point there aren't that many relevant option's left. I don't want them to shoehorn in super irrelevant aircraft just for the sake of number balancing. 

 

That doesn't mean there are still some LW aircraft that i would like to see. 

 

Bf-109 G6 modifications for late model (MW-50, Erlahaube)

Bf-109 G10

Bf-110 F2

Fw-189

Ju-87 B/R

Hs-123

Me-410

Ar-234

 

That's all of them i can think of. 

 

Grt M

 

Ju188 might be a possibility as well, higher performance medium bomber and fairly versatile. Not that uncommon either afaik. 

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Panthera said:

 

I'm sure the MP community will grow fast once more aircraft get added to the game. The MP crowd for IL2'46 was huge in its prime, so I'd expect a similar number for this sim once we get just half that number of aircraft available. 

I dont think it will ever be that big, WT takes a lot of people that were playing mp in 46 on servers with icons and outside views. In BoX there is usealy 200-350 ppl online on peak times any day in online lobby on servers.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

That's a good point. I don't know how upset folks would be if a pair of Collector Planes came out and they focused exclusively on the Allies?

 

I still maintain that the best bet for an extra Luftwaffe aircraft to fit into the Bodenplatte timeframe (until April 1st, 1945) is the Ar234. Bomber. Jet. It's not as flexible as the Me410 but it has the advantage of being part of the air battles during this time.

 

There's tons on the Allied side that directly apply to this battle too. Typhoon, the Mossie, A-20G (and A-26), the list goes on. All interesting aircraft. I'm sure it comes down to time.

planty of interesting airplanes missing, and then time is spend on u-2, insted on them

[=621=Samikatz]

3 hours ago, AeroAce said:

 

I detect sarcasm but isn't the 177 four engines? 

 

EDIT I'm wrong. I was thinking of another plane. 

 

No, you're right. Two propellors, but each propellor gets two engines, so four total. It was a miserable tinderbox constantly plagued by issues, and by the time the problems were somewhat sorted, the fuel situation was bad enough that running four engined bombers regularly wasn't feasible

[=RvE=Windmills]

1 hour ago, 77.CountZero said:

planty of interesting airplanes missing, and then time is spend on u-2, insted on them

 

It seemed somewhat clear that it comparatively doesn't cost as much time/money to build a 1 engined biplane trainer with like 4 instruments, of which many are likely still in flying condition.

 

Compared to planes of which not a single intact example survives and few performance records are extant.

[ShamrockOneFive]

12 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

planty of interesting airplanes missing, and then time is spend on u-2, insted on them

 

Time was not wasted on the U-2VS. There are a couple of good reasons why it made sense as a project but the biggest among them in my mind is that 1CGS wanted to find out if a third party could handle the aircraft making process and the team that built the U-2VS had direct access to a museum quality restoration thus making the learning curve easier.

 

It's not going to appeal to all but I'd suggest strongly that we didn't loose out on another aircraft because they did the U-2. It's not a 1:1 relationship.

16 hours ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

 

I'm pretty LW minded, but i do realize that at some point there aren't that many relevant option's left. I don't want them to shoehorn in super irrelevant aircraft just for the sake of number balancing. 

 

That doesn't mean there are still some LW aircraft that i would like to see. 

 

Bf-109 G6 modifications for late model (MW-50, Erlahaube)

Bf-109 G10

Bf-110 F2

Fw-189

Ju-87 B/R

Hs-123

Me-410

Ar-234

 

That's all of them i can think of. 

 

Grt M

 

That'd be roughly my list as well. There are certainly some unique Luftwaffe types left for representation and the Me410 and Ar234 are fairly high on my list.

[Gambit21]

21 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Time was not wasted on the U-2VS. There are a couple of good reasons why it made sense as a project but the biggest among them in my mind is that 1CGS wanted to find out if a third party could handle the aircraft making process and the team that built the U-2VS had direct access to a museum quality restoration thus making the learning curve easier.

 

 

It was a perfect choice in every way.

I for one am very excited that they devoted the time and resources to producing this aircraft.

It's significantly different from every other WWII aircraft currently in the sim, it adds more functionality to the sim and contributes hugely to fleshing out the environment, even if just comes down to spotting one here and there going about it's business.

 

I can't wait to get this mission completed for it.

 

 

[CanadaOne]

13 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

planty of interesting airplanes missing, and then time is spend on u-2, insted on them

 

 

I think the U-2 was a fine choice. We already have fast movers, flying tanks, and big bomb carriers, the U-2 is a welcome change. Also a nice way for those of us who haven't bought Flying Circus to see if we have the bug for slow movers and want to invest in FC.

 

I think the U-2 a ton of fun.

[1Sascha]

I love both of them.

The Mossie is an icon IMO and has been criminally under-represented in flight sims.

 

While the 410 isn't as much of an icon, it's still a pretty sexy plane and, sadly, I know of even fewer games that have modelled it.

 

Thing is: The perfect companion for the Mossie would (IMO) be a different LW plane, namely the He 219 Uhu.

 

 

My ideal scenario for these two to be included is a "Nightfighters over the Reich" kinda deal. But for that, we'd need four-engined bombers like the Lancaster, so ... ?

 

S.

Edited January 3, 2019 by 1Sascha

[Asgar]

don't care about any of your reasons why not. I want to fly a Me 410 and many other want too, the only reason that counts ? let us throw more money at our screens!