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77.CountZero

Battle of Rome

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DLC could focus on Allied landings at Salerno, landings at Taranto, and ground advances to Gustav line trought toe of South Italy area.


tldsfre54.jpg

 

https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/salerno/sal-fm.htm
https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/salerno/sal-prep.htm
https://history.army.mil/brochures/naples/72-17.htm
https://history.army.mil/html/books/006/6-3-1/index.html

Airfields in Italy in ww2:

http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields - Italy Sicily and Sardinia.pdf

 

Proposed map area for game could be around 550x550km ( depending on bases neccesary could be 50km+ to north or south ) : 

2j5jp1s.jpg

 

 

 


This area is not extra big and it covers battles from the time Allieds already landed in Sicily July 1943 and have bases there up to landings in Anzio January 1944, with main focus on Salerno landings and Operation Avalanch. And map is with interesting terain with big variations in altitudes offering chalange to fight over.

 

Airplanes that operated in that area and battle that could be in proposed DLC ( i try to check as best i could for all airplanes in list, and from what i see they operated in battle and from bases in area on proposed map )  :

 

A-36A   ( or P-40L )
Spitfire Mk.VIII  ( or Spitfire Mk.IXC )
Seafire Mk.IIc  ( or Martlet Mk.IV )
P-38G  ( or A-20G )
Beaufighter Mk.VI  ( or Mosquito NF Mk.VI / or B-25D if not already flyable from BoBp / B-26C from Sardinia only )

 

MC.205V Serie III 
Re.2002 Serie II ( or Re.2001 Series IV / or Re.2005 Series 0, not many used ) 
Bf-109G5 ( or Fw-190A4 not many used, mostly A5s / or G.55 Serie 0, not many used if used )
SM.79bis ( or CantZ.1007bis not many used )
Ju-88A-17 ( or Me-410A-1 / or Do-217K-2  used Fritz X and hs293, but from far north bases )

 

I think atleast one german bomber or fighter would be neccesary, in brackets i placed some other options, some bombers like B-26C or Do-217K-2 operated in battle but did not flew from bases in that 550x550km area from what i could reserch. 

 

Carrier operations could be introduced and torpedo loudouts, or it could be just continuation of it, if it comes after PTO DLC with naval battles.

 

There is also good number of airplanes that can be used from BoM/BoS/BoK/BoBp and some collector airplanes now in offer:

MC.202

Bf-109G2
Bf-109G4
Bf-109G6
Fw-190A5
Bf-110G2
Ju-52
Ju-87D3
Ju-88A4
He-111H6
He-111H16

 

P-40E ( not exact version but close )
A-20B ( not exact version but close )
P-39L ( not exact version but close )
Spitfire Mk.Vb 
B-25C 
 

Edited by 77.CountZero
add Me-410A and airfields link list, P-40L insted M
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I dont remenber they said Italy is out of question, i know africa is out of the picture now, but before Salerno operations there is more then few big operations in MTO and maps that can last for years to fill that gap for TFS. ( from history point if they go by timeline its Torch landings, Tunisia camppaign in early 43, Malta+Sicily for Husky and previous operations, thats 3 maps to make before geting to place i recomend in first post i think it would take them few expantions till they get near.

 

But if this is still to close, maybe late Italy campaign starting with Gothic line push in late 1944 and 1945 Italy campaign is also good, but problem there is most airplanes used are already in game with BoBp, so not big choice but something like this could fit there and be interesting:

for Axis: G.55 Serie I , MC.205V Serie III , Bf-109G-10 , Me-410B-3, Ar-234B-2

for Allieds: P-39Q-20 , P-47D-30 ( or razerback P-47D-22 or P-51C-10 ) , Spitfire Mk.VIII , B-26G-5  , B-25J-15 ( or Mosquito NF MK.XIX or P-61B-2 )

 

Map area would be around 450x500km but more populated with big citys but bonus would be no naval operations , something like this ( all airplanes on list had bases in area and operated in operations in late 44 early 45)  :

 

Spoiler

t9k5d4.jpg

 

 

and you can use it for operations from after Rome is liberated till end of war in Italy, dont know what would be good name for it Battle of ?.


https://history.army.mil/brochures/nap/72-34.htm
https://history.army.mil/brochures/po/72-33.htm
https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=315
https://standwheretheyfought.jimdo.com/italy-2012-2014-the-gothic-line-campaign-1944-futa-pass-and-giogo-pass-then-and-now/

 

I think with going to Italy there is stil room for both, one does early med and one late ops in Italy, like its for West front now.

 

 

 

Edited by 77.CountZero
P-39Q, P-47D and Me-410B, insted P-38L, P-51D and Fw190A9, add picture of area
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Salute Count,

 

Shades of SEOW, that was a challenging campaign, wouldn't mind seeing it come alive here.

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Hi Craven, it would be great to have map of area of Italy in this game, when it can make maps with so mutch bigger detail on hights then old 1946 its shame to spend it on mostly flat maps :) . I dont expect anything similar to amount of units or detail in ground war is posible here for SP or MP, but air war and maps they can cover for some simpler campaigns then SEOW did in il-2 1946.

Edited by 77.CountZero

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An italian scenary would deserve this one as a must. Marauder would be something different from the classic B-25 and A-20 even if boths were heavy involved there, as for Mosquito:

 

b52743b78cd1a71b7d79272fada55258.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro

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1 hour ago, 150GCT_Veltro said:

An italian scenary would deserve this one as a must. Marauder would be something different from the classic B-25 and A-20 even if boths were heavy involved there, as for Mosquito:

 

b52743b78cd1a71b7d79272fada55258.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Yes they would be best option, as we could use existing A-20B and probably by that time existing B-25C/D from BoBp, so B-26C is better option for Allied bomber type ( when B-17s and B-24s are out of question even though they saw heavy use over italy also ).

 

What i see as problematic is that B-26C operated from north Tunisia and Sardinia bases during 1943 and early 1944 operations over Italy. So map should be then extended 200km towards West to include that parts and their bases. Even that big area should not be problem as map that they are now making for BoBp is around 400x360km but its all over land, and would have more citys, towns, roads, rails, and so on... then this proposed map for Battle of Rome, as more then 50% of area is sea, and even expanded to include sardinia and north tip of Tunisia would not be to hard. My only concern would be number of naval units, and that big naval operations impact on game.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

+1 from me to this. The 44-45 would be my ideal choice, with the split Italian forces, but the 43-44 one would arguably make more sense; not just for Rome but the infamy of Monte Cassino. If the Pacific isn't possible, I hope this is the route taken.

 

That said, as long as we stay in WWII, I'll trust the Devs to create a great addition wherever they see fit.

Edited by rodgerdavies
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Posted (edited)

With a map like this we could have scenarios from 42 (Sicily bomb raids) to 45 (tialian civil war), amazing stuff

 

Edited by SCG_Faerber
correction

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On 1/6/2019 at 6:45 PM, SCG_Faerber said:

With a map like this we could have scenarios from 42 (Sicily bomb raids) to 45 (tialian civil war), amazing stuff

 

 

If your thinking about that first black and white picture then yes, but that area in one map would be to big, and would be hard to select just 10 airplanes for whole period. For all that you would have to have atleast 3 maps ( one tunis sicily and malta, one sicily and south to central italy, and one central to north italy ).

 

 

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Posted (edited)

It would be very interesting the Italian war theater, even from a landscape point of view, the only fly on Italy gives a great emotion, compared to the flat and monotonous plains of Stalingrad, Moscow or Western Europe.
Until 1942 the fate of the conflict and also the air forces were very balanced between Axis and Allies and therefore the Campaign would be interesting. I would see very well, for example, the convoy air-sea battles in the Sicilian channel and the battles on the skies of Malta in 1942.
Since 1943 there is too much imbalance in favor of the Allies, especially from a quantitative point of view. However, in terms of the quality of the individual airplanes, the balance would be quite substantial and some interesting mission could be created...
I encourage developers to keep going on this path ...

Edited by Alfaunostebas11

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Posted (edited)
On 1/9/2019 at 1:48 AM, Alfaunostebas11 said:

Since 1943 there is too much imbalance in favor of the Allies, especially from a quantitative point of view. However, in terms of the quality of the individual airplanes, the balance would be quite substantial and some interesting mission could be created...
I encourage developers to keep going on this path ...

 

Excatly! You have perfectly got the point, and however we could have the boxed bomber formations to preserve the historically imbalance (as we did in the old IL2).

 

In terms of simulation, planeset, Italy would be one of the best scenary if not the best considering the addition of italian Serie 5 and G-10 Erla. Just an example: an Axis fighter pilot could have this hangar: G6 (with Erla canopy addition + Trop.), G-10/G-10 Erla, G-14, G-14AS, K4, FW-190A-8, FW-190F-8, Macchi 205, Fiat G-55 (Reggiane 2005 for Husky). Historically was imbalanced but for a single fighter pilot, in a WW2 simulation, it would be just a dream.

 

Allied could have almost everything, Spitfire VIII serie and Seafire first of all.

 

Just an example of what i mean:

post-1022-0-38665500-1456823991_thumb.jpg

 

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro

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