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Developer Diary 210 - Discussion

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58 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

I think that the map area for BoBp shows conclusively that the team has a ridiculously pro-Belgian bias.

 

That being undoubtedly the case, at this point I must raise my voice against the undue amount of development resources that is being spent on modelling historical aircraft, tanks and whatnot instead of properly concentrating these assets on chocolate and tripel ale.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Holtzauge said:

I can understand adding a Spitfire MkXIV is not a top priority for the moment since that involves a lot of effort. However, adding the option to have 25 lbs boost on the MkIX seems like the right thing to do given the plane set currently in the works.

Not even ED in DCS had an idea to put in the same setup an 18 lbs Spitfire IX and 1.98 Ata 109 K-4 ...

 

Oh well, I hope we will get at least cupholders in P-51 for Dr. Pepper.

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The devs haven't even mentioned 150 at any point have they? Seems kinda unavoidable to have it as an option but we'll see I guess.

 

Looking like one of the biggest patches though, the ground vehicle damage and network improvement are both massive.

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37 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

That being undoubtedly the case, at this point I must raise my voice against the undue amount of development resources that is being spent on modelling historical aircraft, tanks and whatnot instead of properly concentrating these assets on chocolate and tripel ale.

 

 

Stop acting like a child. You got your 1.98 k4 fantasy AC, no need to gloat.

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Playerbase gets 150 oct: But what about 1.98 ata? They were uncommon but plausible

Playerbase gets 1.98 ata: But what about 150oct? They were common and they give this axis bias?
Playerbase gets none: This sucks! 150 oct was common! Hey, 1.98 was also plausible!

Playerbase gets both: This sukcks! It's not realistic to fight against 1.98 ata! Hey, it is not too to fight against 150 oct everything!

 

Seems like people are forgetting this is an OPTION and servers can disable it or even you. 150 Will be a welcomed addition and I am sure it will come. Gosh.

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11 minutes ago, LF_Gallahad said:

Gosh.

 

No glass half full attitude, please! It's half empty! Always. No matter how full.

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Stop making sense, Galahad.

 

To me it seems the whinery comes from from a handful of notoriously vocal Allied-only players, who have been always repesenting a viewpoint that Allied planes should get all their shiny gadgets and mods, and Axis should get absolutely none.

 

When everybody else is very pleased and excited about development news of both new content and important technological refinements of the FM / DM such as modelling of the turbos and ground vehicle DM, that is a sign of good developer decision and effective use of resources.

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2 hours ago, Bullets said:

 

He is not moaning for less powerful axis aircraft ya knitwit

 

I do believe the correct term is whining... 

:acute:

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2 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

To me it seems the whinery comes from from a handful of notoriously vocal Allied-only players, who have been always repesenting a viewpoint that Allied planes should get all their shiny gadgets and mods, and Axis should get absolutely none.

Now that's not nice. You could reverse the argument that those in favour of higher boost come from a handful of notoriously vocal Luftwaffe-only players, who have been always representing a viewpoint that German planes should get all their shiny gadgets and mods, and Allies should get absolutely none. 

 

Problem with your argument is that there is absolutely no substance to support it. Going through three expansions, it's the Luftwaffe that enjoyed technological and performance advantage with F-4/G-2 and 190 A-3 in BoS or G-4 and A-5 in BoK. And this was correct both historically and gameplay wise. So now we get a late war expansion and what do we have here ? 109 K-4 with DC engine and 1.98 Ata, which arguably even you were unable to prove of how widespread use it was, considering lacks of C3 Av gas and very dynamic situation on the frontline between January and March 1945. Last time I;ve checked discussion you've proven that two units used it for test purposes in January and in March it was supposedly becoming a standard ? Then there is a D-9 which receives a Ez-42, when less than 30 actually were equipped out of 700 produced D-9s. 

On the other hand Allies get Spitfire IX (with Mk II GGS, true), P-51 D-10 or 15 and P-47 D-28 (64" MAP), P-38 J (earlier it was supposed to be L, but now it's J) and Tempest. Most of this aircraft were in service long before D-9 and K-4, so I'm not sure who is getting all the gadgets and whistles here if not Luftwaffe, in your opinion ?  

 

So yeah, your "argument" is false and dishonest. But most importantly labels some users in a very unpleasent manner which I despise. Now to a point, I dont mind 1.98 Ata, Gyro-sight in D-9 or whatever as long as consistency in such mods is preserved for both sides. Only now we have a word from Jason that 150 Octane may become an option when they have sufficient resources to introduce it. But I'm not entirely sure to which aircraft it may even apply. Will see.

  

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Hi guys,

 

This is a DD discussion, if you want to discuss about fuel types and all that, do it in an apropiate topic not this.

 

All futher post off topic will be deleted without notice.

 

Haash

 

P.S. And do not get personal, I already see people doing such a thing in here...from both sides of the discussion.

Edited by SYN_Haashashin

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3 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

I think that the map area for BoBp shows conclusively that the team has a ridiculously pro-Belgian bias.

 

Brilliant!!! :biggrin::salute:

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19 hours ago, Legioneod said:

The D-28 could run the same turbo rpms as the D-30, they had the same engine and turbo, very little changed between the D-28 and D-30.

 


Which is weird because the document they provided states War Emergency Rating - Engine and Turbo. Which seems to imply 22,000 rpm.  I'm not interested in paying for the entire document so I'll ask to see if its 20,000 or 22,000 rpm.

D-28_speed.jpg

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8 minutes ago, DSR_T-888 said:


Which is weird because the document they provided states War Emergency Rating - Engine and Turbo. Which seems to imply 22,000 rpm.  I'm not interested in paying for the entire document so I'll ask to see if its 20,000 or 22,000 rpm.

D-28_speed.jpg

 

I agree it is odd, but we should be able to run 22,000 rpms for at least 15 min and get the higher critical altitude and therefore speed.

Another thing to note is that the report says it had a 170 gallon tank as well, so we should see a bit higher speeds without the tank.

 

4 minutes ago, Bullets said:

On topic: I can't freakin wait for this update, that p38 looks like a real beast of an aircraft and thank you devs for waiting for me to get back from my trip hehe.

 

 Did I miss a DD somewhere? I wanna see a P-38.

Edited by Legioneod

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So there is a Bf-109K4 with 1.98 ATA but they didn't bother to add the most massed produced P-47 the D-30. Which had Dive flaps and a dorsal fin. 😒 Of course I'm happy we are getting a P-47, but did it have to be the most barebones P-47 🤣 What's next, a P-38J without dive flaps? That was once a joke but is now a serious question. 

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3 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 Did I miss a DD somewhere? I wanna see a P-38.

 

No I am just a mong haha.

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2 minutes ago, DSR_T-888 said:

So there is a Bf-109K4 with 1.98 ATA but they didn't bother to add the most massed produced P-47 the D-30. Which had Dive flaps and a dorsal fin. 😒 Of course I'm happy we are getting a P-47, but did it have to be the most barebones P-47 🤣 What's next, a P-38J without dive flaps? That was once a joke but is now a serious question. 

 

D-28 is second most mass produced at over 1,700. Honestly at first I was a little upset about not getting the D-30 but now I don't really mind, performance wise they are the same basically and the main difference is the dive flaps.

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2 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

D-28 is second most mass produced at over 1,700. Honestly at first I was a little upset about not getting the D-30 but now I don't really mind, performance wise they are the same basically and the main difference is the dive flaps.


Yeah same, but the Bf-109K4 a plane that is no where near as common as any P-47 variant for that matter is being more flushed out than the second most massed produced P-47 ever. That's got to raise some reasonable questions. 

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That P 47 may even eventually ( when can be flown on Bodenplatte in Career and PWCG) get me to park my Spitfire for a bit, will see.

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10 minutes ago, DSR_T-888 said:


Yeah same, but the Bf-109K4 a plane that is no where near as common as any P-47 variant for that matter is being more flushed out than the second most massed produced P-47 ever. That's got to raise some reasonable questions. 

I wouldn't say the K-4 is being worked on more, it's just that it may be a bit "easier" to model than the P-47.

The P-47 is probably one of the most complex aircraft they have ever done, so it makes sense that they wont give us everything right now (they've already given us alot from what they've shown)

 

Hopefully they'll find the time to add all the niceties later like 150 fuel and stuff just so we have the options.

 

I'm willing to bet that 150 fuel will be added to the allied later on down the line, it makes sense and would be an excellent addition to the game, but right now they just dont have the time and I can understand that.

 

 

Imo it's a bit more satisfying knocking someone out of the sky who thinks he has the super plane like the 1.98 K4. It's gonna put a big grin on my face when I shoot these dudes down, same goes for the 262.

You really think the K4 is gonna hold up to being shot at? I certainly don't, not with the wooden sections. One good hit and it's bye bye K4.

 

Edited by Legioneod
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*Reads that the release date is in 2 weeks*: 😁

 

*Looks at the calendar, sees that the Thanksgiving holiday is in 2 weeks*: 😩

 

Looks like I’ll be kicking the in-laws out of the front door as soon as dinner is finished on Thursday...

Edited by Manstein16
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38 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Hopefully they'll find the time to add all the niceties later like 150 fuel and stuff just so we have the options.

 

I'm willing to bet that 150 fuel will be added to the allied later on down the line, it makes sense and would be an excellent addition to the game, but right now they just dont have the time and I can understand that.

 

Agree completely.:salute:

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Don't worry guys, I provided devs with everything they need for 150 octane for Allies including for Spitfires in particular unit breakdowns, usage, stocks and performance data including power without ram at all altitudes etc etc. Expect to see +25lbs on Spits in the near term and then other planes later.

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8 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

Don't worry guys, I provided devs with everything they need for 150 octane for Allies including for Spitfires in particular unit breakdowns, usage, stocks and performance data including power without ram at all altitudes etc etc. Expect to see +25lbs on Spits in the near term and then other planes later.

 

Champion! 

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8 minutes ago, ITAF_Rani said:

K4......1,98 Ata

 

giphy_(49).gif

 

When a 109 sees a P-51/P-47 up high.

giphy.webp

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3 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

When a 109 sees a P-51/P-47 up high.

giphy.webp

😂😂

Edited by ITAF_Rani

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49 minutes ago, Manstein16 said:

*Reads that the release date is in 2 weeks*: 😁

 

*Looks at the calendar, sees that the Thanksgiving holiday is in 2 weeks*: 😩

 

Looks like I’ll be kicking the in-laws out of the front door as soon as dinner is finished on Thursday...

I'll be leaving the in-laws house faster than a P47 in a dive.

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Something to think about for online scenarios.

 

Jan 1 1945 - 165 K-4s on hand

Jan 1 1945 - 90 flown, of which 11 were 1.98ata

 

11/165 = 6.7%

11/90 = 12%

 

 

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44 minutes ago, 76IAP-Black said:

Couldn't it be even possible, tha the D30 and other variants are reserved for later il2 Box Releases? 😃 

Hopefully, but a D-30 wouldn't add much imo, only real difference would be dive flaps. A P-47M or an early bubbletop like the D-25 would add something new. A razorback like the D-22 would be my preferred aircraft, we need a nice razorback to represent earlier P-47s.

Edited by Legioneod

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I know it’s kinda whiny of me to say but I hope we get a dorsal stabilizer though I don’t mind if we don’t see it but it was a common mod for the bubble tops

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1 hour ago, 76IAP-Black said:

Couldn't it be even possible, tha the D30 and other variants are reserved for later il2 Box Releases? 😃 

There is no major differences between the D blocks that really justify it. Assuming our D-15 get the Gyro gunsight (which appeared on the D-20), only major game changing differences are metal covered elevators for high speed dives (D-25) and HVAR rocket attachments (D-30). These things can be modifications especially as they were fitted on earlier production blocks in the field.

 

Can't really say the same with the P-47D where I would say there are 4-5 distinct variants and never mind the 8 different propellers mounted during production run of the D alone from Hamilton, Curtiss and A.O. Smith

 

  • D-1 to D-10, Water injection started by toggle switch to throttle, only ventral pylon, A-13 turbo regulator, 56 "Hg maximum, later 65 "Hg allowed
  • D-11 to D-21 Water Injection linked to throttle position (would activate when throttle was closer then 1/8" from top), D-15 onwards had permament mounted pylons, D-20 had universal wing which could remove those pylons, A-17 regulator, 56 "Hg maximum only.
  • D-22 to D-23, Water injection activated by momentary switch on the throttle, A-23 regulator, 56 "Hg initially, 65 "Hg later allowed, paddle prop introduced, earlier variants upgraded with paddle props over time
  • D-25 to D-28. First bubble canopy
  • D-30 and D-40 Dive flaps, Tail fin extension mounts for x10 HVAR on the wings, earlier P-47s could mount x4 HVAR where the M10 rocket launchers usually were placed. Main reason why I don't include this as upgradeable to the D-25 to D-28 and as seperate is because the cockpit was completely different and rearranged.
Edited by RoflSeal

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14 minutes ago, RoflSeal said:

There is no major differences between the D blocks that really justify it. Assuming our D-15 get the Gyro gunsight (which appeared on the D-20), only major game changing differences are metal covered elevators for high speed dives (D-25) and HVAR rocket attachments (D-30). These things can be modifications especially as they were fitted on earlier production blocks in the field.

 

Can't really say the same with the P-47D where I would say there are 4-5 distinct variants and never mind the 8 different propellers mounted during production run of the D alone from Hamilton, Curtiss and A.O. Smith

 

  • D-1 to D-10, Water injection started by toggle switch to throttle, only ventral pylon, A-13 turbo regulator, 56 "Hg maximum, later 65 "Hg allowed
  • D-11 to D-21 Water Injection linked to throttle position (would activate when throttle was closer then 1/8" from top), D-15 onwards had permament mounted pylons, D-20 had universal wing which could remove those pylons, A-17 regulator, 56 "Hg maximum only.
  • D-22 to D-23, Water injection activated by momentary switch on the throttle, A-23 regulator, 56 "Hg initially, 65 "Hg later allowed, paddle prop introduced, earlier variants upgraded with paddle props over time
  • D-25 to D-28. First bubble canopy
  • D-30 and D-40 Dive flaps, Tail fin extension mounts for x10 HVAR on the wings, earlier P-47s could mount x4 HVAR where the M10 rocket launchers usually were placed. Main reason why I don't include this as upgradeable to the D-25 to D-28 and as seperate is because the cockpit was completely different and rearranged.

 

I'd seperate them a bit more seeing as there were more differences the blocks. Performance wise they were all basically the same and could all run at 64-70" with proper fuels and water injection.

 

Only difference between the D-22 and D-23 was the props used, D-22 used a Hamilton and the D-23 used curtis electric.

 

D-25 and D-28 can't really be grouped in the same category either imo, they had different capacity water tanks and used different props. Also iirc the D-25 wasn't the first to use all metal elevators, that was earlier in production iirc.

 

If I had to choose a good lineup to represent the D model of P-47 it'd be:

 

P-47 D-11 or D-15, would add an interesting aspect with automatic water activation.

 

P-47 D-22 to represent a late razorback. Options of 150 or 100 grade fuel with 56",65" or 70" to represent the power settings through the war.

 

P-47 D-25 as the first bubbletop, would have hamilton prop and 11min water vs 15 of later blocks. Similar settings to the D-22.

 

P-47 D-28 (what we are getting) would add 150 fuel to give the option of 65" without water and 70" with water.

 

P-47 D-30 dive flaps and dorsal fin

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The modelling looks spot on for the WW2 birds, but it seems a bit flat for the WW1 planes. The textures do look lovely, but unless you guys ramp up the bump maps, they will still feel 2009ish. To see what I mean, take a look at this movie, then compare it to the Camel engine screenshots. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6PnKUEFX8g

 

These are spartan planes, with maybe a bolt here, maybe a raised panel there, 0.5 cm of overlapping here, a slight bend in the metal there. Then there's the multitude of textures everywhere, with metal, wood and fabric. If it looks flat in 2D image, can you imagine how flat it looks in VR? WW2 planes have a lot more going for them, with weathering textures, chipped paint, buttons and dials galore, they look fantastic. But please, can we get the same attention to detail on the WW1 planes as well? More time is spent on making flat textures that mimic detail than it is to add a few more simple polygons here and there.

 

At the very least, can we have moddable 3D models on game release? Maybe we can fix the details ourselves. I'd be more than pleased to brush up on my Maya and 3dsmax skills. 

 

Edited by Wolferl_1791

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21 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

I'd seperate them a bit more seeing as there were more differences the blocks. Performance wise they were all basically the same and could all run at 64-70" with proper fuels and water injection.

 

 

 

Only difference between the D-22 and D-23 was the props used, D-22 used a Hamilton and the D-23 used curtis electric.

 

D-25 and D-28 can't really be grouped in the same category either imo, they had different capacity water tanks and used different props. Also iirc the D-25 wasn't the first to use all metal elevators, that was earlier in production iirc.

 

 

If I had to choose a good lineup to represent the D model of P-47 it'd be:

 

P-47 D-11 or D-15, would add an interesting aspect with automatic water activation.

 

P-47 D-22 to represent a late razorback. Options of 150 or 100 grade fuel with 56",65" or 70" to represent the power settings through the war.

 

P-47 D-25 as the first bubbletop, would have hamilton prop and 11min water vs 15 of later blocks. Similar settings to the D-22.

 

P-47 D-28 (what we are getting) would add 150 fuel to give the option of 65" without water and 70" with water.

 

P-47 D-30 dive flaps and dorsal fin

Aircraft fitted with A-17 regulator (D-11 to D-20) were limited to 56"Hg. That said the regulator could be replaced so the aircraft could achieve higher power levels.

P-47D-25 was the first with 30 gallon water tank according to the pilots manuals. P-51D-25-NA was the first to include metal elevators.

Propellers can be a modifications, if the devs ever decide to add them. As far as I can tell, Curtiss and Hamilton props are equal in climb, Hamilton prop is 5-8mph faster. I don't really have any details on the A.O Smith propellers

As far as I can tell the only difference between D-25/26 and D-27/28 was the latter had upgraded injection for 64 "Hg fitted from the factory, D-25/26 had to be upgraded to do this and were initially limited to 56 "Hg.

Edited by RoflSeal

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20 minutes ago, RoflSeal said:

Aircraft fitted with A-17 regulator (D-11 to D-20) were limited to 56"Hg. That said the regulator could be replaced so the aircraft could achieve higher power levels.

P-47D-25 was the first with 30 gallon water tank according to the pilots manuals. P-51D-25-NA was the first to include metal elevators.

Propellers can be a modifications, if the devs ever decide to add them. As far as I can tell the only difference between D-25/26 and D-27/28 was the latter had upgraded injection for 64 "Hg fitted from the factory, D-25/26 had to be upgraded to do this and were initially limited to 56 "Hg.

 

You sure your not confusing the P-47 with the P-51? 47 had metal control surfaces before the D-25. The way the manual words it the 15 gallon tank was up to the D-25 so it's kinda confusing the way it's worded but I'd agree it was a 30 gallon tank on the D-25.

 

Iirc the 56" for the D-22 - D26 was limited (without the upgrades) due to 130 fuel, with 150 fuel power settings of 65" + could be realized already iirc. The water injection was upgraded anyways to prevent detonation. Either way D-22 all the way up to D-40 could achieve the same power settings with the proper fuel/equipment.

 

If we really wanted to, we could boil it down to three blocks with a few modifications.

 

P-47 D-22. With Hamilton and Curtis props to represent the D-23 and D-22, could also have early settings of 56" and a mod to represent 65" - 70" with 150 fuel. And maybe even another mod of 64-130-w to represent 64" with 130 fuel.

 

P-47 D-28 Hamilton and Curtis props to represent D-25 - D28. Power settings of 56" to represent early D-25/D-26. 64-130-w (this is what we are already getting) to represent later D-25 through D-28, and a mod for 150 fuel to represent 65-70".

 

P-47 D-30 Dive flaps, dorsal fin, and 10x HVAR to represent the D-40 as well.

 

Imo these three block with those modifications would be a good compromise to represent the P-47D.

 

Edited by Legioneod

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5 hours ago, =362nd_FS=Hiromachi said:

there is a D-9 which receives a Ez-42, when less than 30 actually were equipped out of 700 produced D-9s

this game is not about statistics. Most of allied fighters didn't encounter any resistance from German fighters in the last months of the war, so should we have just one German aircraft type therefore?

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1 minute ago, NoMoreSteam said:

this game is not about statistics. Most of allied fighters didn't encounter any resistance from German fighters in the last months of the war, so should we have just one German aircraft type therefore?

That wasnt his point.

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1.98 ata can be locked in MP

AI in career probably cant use it

You can choose to not select 1.98 ata in SP

 

So you should be happy to have plane with another engine modification to play with.

 

More powerful engine to allied planes are coming if the team find more time. Relax guys and enjoy  what you have

 

PS: sorry SYN Haashasin

 

Edited by Voidhunger
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5 hours ago, 4./JG26_Onebad said:

As per usual, nothing new except some shiny screenshots to get that sweet preorder shilla going, no mention of getting core of the sim up to a XXI century standard.

The last line about netcode improvement sounds like a vague promise of something that should have been sorted ages ago. Keep up the great job devs, we all know how hard you're working.

 

You really missed a hell of a lot in the DD if that's all you go out of it.

5 hours ago, DSR_T-888 said:

So there is a Bf-109K4 with 1.98 ATA but they didn't bother to add the most massed produced P-47 the D-30. Which had Dive flaps and a dorsal fin. 😒 Of course I'm happy we are getting a P-47, but did it have to be the most barebones P-47 🤣 What's next, a P-38J without dive flaps? That was once a joke but is now a serious question. 

 

Because "adding" a D-30 would have also meant a very large overhaul of the cockpit, and the D-28 was by no means uncommon.

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