Game version 3.005 discussion: Flying Circus, Tank Crew, Fw 190 A-8

[Mr_Pickles 38]

1 hour ago, Mr_Pickles said:

T:12038 AType:2 DMG:1.000 AID:164863 TID:53247 POS(22847.824,150.749,31221.541)

This is not strange for HE rounds for you?

[SAS_Storebror 483]

It is strange for HE rounds to kill a Tiger at all.

However it is also strange to permanently try to convince people that one round would do, without the will to give any proof.

What you've quote is a line of text.

I'm not saying that you did manipulate the log, but I cannot say I'm sure that you didn't either.

Such line of text proves nothing at all.

A track does.

While it's not impossible to manipulate a track, the difficulty in doing so would be several dimensions higher.

Therefore, at the risk of repeating myself: Provide a track where you kill a Tiger with one shot (or maybe 3 for the same matter) and we can proceed.

Until then: 7 HE rounds to get it smoking, 13 to kill it. Period.

 

Mike

[AeroAce 817]

A certain Frozen song is coming to mind.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal 459]

8 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Because research of their penetration data most likely isn´t finalized. As for pen data best researched for ww2 tanks look here "WW2 Ballistics: Armor and Gunnery, Lorrin Bird & Robert Livingston, Overmatch Press  2001 :

https://de.scribd.com/doc/219173969/WWII-Ballistics-Armor-and-Gunnery

I would hope devs don't use WWII Ballistics. There is more data out there nowadays then there was 20 years ago where the authors based their calculations from a website and in turn attributed higher performance to Russian AP shells then they should have.

[Mr_Pickles 38]

1 hour ago, SAS_Storebror said:

I tell it again: I've posted my tracks, they contain the (dead simple) mission setup for this situation.

Download it, run the mission and post back a track where you've killed a tiger with 3 shots.

 

I found some mistakes in you test:

1. You fire to tiger from BACK not in front.

2. You mission is incorrect couse in game option in properties "delete after death" works with up to 4 min delay. So all crew in tank death but you see it and keep fire to already death object. To correct results you must use MCU to delete death object or wait several minutes after shot.

So i modify you mission for correct:

 

And then start try:

5,4,4,6,9,3,2 shots to death in 7 try

 

Last try with 2 shots i cut from video:

 

From 2 to 9 shots on kill but no 13 or more. It depends from aiming, at last i find best point to kill tiger from 2-3 shots.

Edited August 30, 2018 by Mr_Pickles

[sevenless 855]

2 hours ago, RoflSeal said:

I would hope devs don't use WWII Ballistics. There is more data out there nowadays then there was 20 years ago where the authors based their calculations from a website and in turn attributed higher performance to Russian AP shells then they should have.

 

I wouldn't mind if they can fill in gaps with new solid data which became accessible after the fall of the wall. However, my impression is, that it is still is a good source to get started with. Anyways, I'm sure they know their business.

[SAS_Storebror 483]

11 hours ago, Mr_Pickles said:

You fire to tiger from BACK not in front.

Oh dammit... how could this have happened?

Confirmed, the Tiger was facing opposite direction.

 

11 hours ago, Mr_Pickles said:

You mission is incorrect couse in game option in properties "delete after death" works with up to 4 min delay. So all crew in tank death but you see it and keep fire to already death object. To correct results you must use MCU to delete death object or wait several minutes after shot.

Eh... no, not necessary.

If you play my Track without changing any settings, you will see that I've been testing with Icons on, and in that case the icon disappears as soon as the Tank crew has been killed.

 

Anyway, updated test is here:

 

Result is: 20 Tigers killed with 44 shots, in average ~2 HE rounds up front kill the Tiger (varied from 1 to 5 in the test).

And: The Tiger never smokes nor explodes that way. It just gets killed "silently" and vanishes.

 

Mike

[Mr_Pickles 38]

51 minutes ago, SAS_Storebror said:

And: The Tiger never smokes nor explodes that way. It just gets killed "silently" and vanishes.

It AI tigers, in multiplayer my tiger was exploded then T-34 fire in front of me. 

[SAS_Storebror 483]

When firing from the back, Tiger smokes and explodes as well offline.

Just saying.

 

Mike

[Mr_Pickles 38]

3 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

When firing from the back, Tiger smokes and explodes as well offline.

Just saying.

But it need more hit.

I said about situation, then T34 fire one time in ahead to Tiger and it explode. It happens often in last time.

I don't checking HE in multiplayer yet, but maybe it is reason for such good one-shots from T34.

[SAS_Storebror 483]

Correct.

Next test would need to be what happens when you do the same from an aircraft, e.g. shoot 37mm or 23mm HE ammo from IL-2 / P-39 / Lagg-3 into the Tiger's front.

 

So far, it seems like the Tiger's damage model currently has three issues into one:

• The Tiger is vulnerable to HE ammo where it basically shouldn't be.
• Especially up front, where the Tiger's tough side is supposed to be, a single HE shot can kill it.
• The Tiger is virtually invulnerable to any other type of ammo, like AP or APCR, which was supposed to be the only one that's able to kill him within a reasonable amount of shots.

Mike

Edited August 31, 2018 by SAS_Storebror