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Using cockpit gauges vs. technochat - Adding an option to turn off the “technochat” in realism menu by server administrator

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More realistic servere like TAW, Coconut Expert, Finnish without technochat, more casual servers like Wings of Liberty or Berloga with technochat. 

BTW. TAW very often has more players than WoL.

cheers

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Very rarely does any server have players on it except WoL.

TAW is only up occasionally. 

Combat Box was good but now appears to be dead

 

why ask for MP options in a sim that can’t have them?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Very rarely does any server have players on it except WoL.

TAW is only up occasionally. 

Combat Box was good but now appears to be dead

 

why ask for MP options in a sim that can’t have them?

lol thats not the case at all... When do you even try and play? Not only is that completely untrue, but the point you are trying to make is questionable. Not really any point at all in fact.

Edited by JgonRedcorn

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29 minutes ago, JgonRedcorn said:

lol thats not the case at all... When do you even try and play? Not only is that completely untrue, but the point you are trying to make is questionable. Not really any point at all in fact.

Any time I’ve tried to go online. I find it really amazing. Yeah other servers occasionally get people on them, an occasional spike, but then nothing. 

We could rename this game IL-2 Wings of Liberty. 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Any time I’ve tried to go online. I find it really amazing. Yeah other servers occasionally get people on them, an occasional spike, but then nothing. 

We could rename this game IL-2 Wings of Liberty. 

 

I think it's your time zone. Kota is always full in the middle of the day, combat box has people on it later at night. Wings just always has people on it. It's a good server for newbies and people looking for quick action.

Edited by JgonRedcorn
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Posted (edited)
I always fly without tecnochat and I think it would be highly recommended that the servers have the possibility to deactivate this option. 
Without this you can not create full simulation servers. 
I fully support this initiative 👍
Edited by E69_Cachash
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Posted (edited)
On 7/10/2019 at 7:49 AM, Sokol1 said:

 

I never understand why someone need - in il-2:46 or IL-2:Box, a blink icon and/or text message saying "cockpits light: ON", etc... the guy are not seeing the lights?  :wacko:

 

I agree in part with what people  are saying about technochat in its current implementation. (although it does have its uses in testing , for example precise digital speed is useful). AND I still feel done well SOME visual cues are useful in SOME  cases if not to gamey in implementation.

 

An example of such an aid (done with the right idea) is the getting wounded and blood out effect or the dark effect from G force (opinion varies on how well its done too in game). This is the type of thing I refer to, not a compass on the HUD. (*although a pilot in a plane has a far better field of view than any display shows, so he can see a lot more at once than we can in this game/sim, gauges and out side plane at same time etc)

 

We are not actually in a cockpit but a modelled version of one (some people forget this and think no extra visual aids are required to compensate), For example the human eye's capability is far better than what any display can do, in more than one aspect  and our other physical senses give a  real pilot a lot of info you just can't model in game/sim as we are looking at a computer monitor, using a keyboard, and mouse, head tracker and joystick etc. All human senses are considerably less precise from a computer in our house  vs a real cockpit environment.

And I'm not suggesting  all of it should or can be modelled with visual queues either, just making a point that some can be done visually to some degree, which is better than no degree.

 

To give and example: (I'm not suggesting we model this in game, you can't visually)

Putting your physical hand on a lever and moving it gives additional tactile feedback(position info so you likely don't need to even look at it to know what setting its on) you can't model in game for example that kind of thing as we in a game are only limited to getting the visual and some less precise tactile (joystick and maybe a poor audio cue from sounds in the plane with far less precision than actually  being in a cockpit would from our sound system) and the games modelling of audio limitations give us (vs real plane sounds and more and than just engine too). This  is just an example that we have limited model of tactile feedback/sounds and visuals with (anywhere near in some cases like the human eye) the same precision with basic game play hardware ( a stick and head tracker, 4k display).

 

The idea of visual aids (and we  are limited to only visuals, with common hardwareshould be to try and simulate (some , maybe?) what can't be done due to the limitations of the hardware we use to play the game, not  duplicate stuff from what instruments show for example , which I also don't agree with.

 

My issue is not with such aids but how some are done (over done or duplicated info from instruments etc)  in this game.

Putting visuals aids in a sim to try and compensate to limitations of current playing hardware for not actually being physically there (not duplicating stuff you can already get instruments etc).  I personally think is the way to go.

 

This is not necessarily easy to do well and requires thinking about interface design to avoid making it too gamey like its current use in "technochat". 

 

The question is then what to do this with and then how how do you do it well...

 

 

 

Edited by =RS=Stix_09

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Posted (edited)

This is a dumb idea.

 

-Engine throttle settings are an unrealistic abstraction and not having the technochat would make it even more absurd to manage.

 

-The engines enter combat and emergency if they are just a hair over spec, which means you could be in emergency and not know it. it would last longer, but this is still a problem.

 

-Some damage options have no manual data to aide them, like flaps damage speed.

 

this is just another bonkers case of the hyper-realism crowd assuming that all harder = more realistic, and that any game aide that does not exist explicitly in reality yields a less realistic result.

 

This is not the case. If you remove all game aides, what you end up with is not reality. You end up with a game that is a abstraction of reality at every level.

 

Edited by Fumes
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In the case of engine damage I’m not sure if the instruments function in that regard. For example I can see myself leaking fuel and holes in my wings but the fuel pressure is still normal. Maybe that’s correct if the fuel pump is still working. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Fumes said:

-Engine throttle settings are an unrealistic abstraction and not having the technochat would make it even more absurd to manage.

 

How can you not feel where your throttle is? Mine is terrible yet I have some idea of where in the range it is. Also, do planes not have gauges indicating rpm/manifold pressure etc? Most planes you get a feel for the engine just by the sound.

 

8 hours ago, Fumes said:

-The engines enter combat and emergency if they are just a hair over spec, which means you could be in emergency and not know it. it would last longer, but this is still a problem.

 

Why do you think you should be able to ride it right on the edge? Just back the throttle off a fraction and your all good. Most engines actually seem to not go into combat or emergency until a bit past where the guage and manual state it would anyway. And even if you momentarily get it wrong, being 1% in emergency has a much longer timer on it than being all the way in.

 

8 hours ago, Fumes said:

 

-Some damage options have no manual data to aide them, like flaps damage speed.

 

Really? I've yet to see someone break flaps in combat, you have to purposely do something stupid. IL2 pilots are terrible for flap abuse (especially in MP). I doubt real pilots would risk the damage and would only deploy them when at speeds much lower than those with any risk of damage.

 

8 hours ago, Fumes said:

this is just another bonkers case of the hyper-realism crowd assuming that all harder = more realistic, and that any game aide that does not exist explicitly in reality yields a less realistic result.

 

This is not the case. If you remove all game aides, what you end up with is not reality. You end up with a game that is a abstraction of reality at every level.

 

Make it a server side option and you can freely pick a server that will let you enjoy the game just as you like.

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

In the case of engine damage I’m not sure if the instruments function in that regard. For example I can see myself leaking fuel and holes in my wings but the fuel pressure is still normal. Maybe that’s correct if the fuel pump is still working. 

 

If the hole is in the tank, and the pressure monitoring is in the fuel line between the pump and the engine, it would make sense unless the pump was damaged.

 

Can still ask the question and lobby for the gauge to be different if the above was not the case.

Edited by =EXPEND=Tripwire

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14 minutes ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

How can you not feel where your throttle is?

It’s possible that people can be using a keyboard or buttons for their axis controls like RPM or Radiator etc. then they really won’t have a feel for where it’s set at. Many sims like RoF or CloD have graphic representations of the lever positions. I don’t consider that a breach of realism since a pilot would know by feel where these are set at without looking at them. 

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25 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s possible that people can be using a keyboard or buttons for their axis controls like RPM or Radiator etc. then they really won’t have a feel for where it’s set at. Many sims like RoF or CloD have graphic representations of the lever positions. I don’t consider that a breach of realism since a pilot would know by feel where these are set at without looking at them. 

 

The problem I see is everyone moves the throttle to exactly the 1% border of normal/combat/emergency, rather than a more normal inaccuracy. Without visual warnings and exact % notification you are forced to push the limits, run some risk, or be more conservative. There is none of that when they can ride the % engine mode delimiter, making the current crappy engine mechanics much more gamey.

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4 minutes ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

The problem I see is everyone moves the throttle to exactly the 1% border of normal/combat/emergency, rather than a more normal inaccuracy. Without visual warnings and exact % notification you are forced to push the limits, run some risk, or be more conservative. There is none of that when they can ride the % engine mode delimiter, making the current crappy engine mechanics much more gamey.

Well I’m in favor of a graphic indication but I agree about switching off the warnings.

There are already separate categories for “Technical” and “Tips”

IMO lever positions are “Technical” and warnings about “Combat Mode” and “Engine Overheat” should be “Tips”

Technical should be ok for Full Real but Tips aren’t.

Personally I prefer any game graphics or icons stuff turned off because it just detracts from the experience. I want to actually look at the gear or flaps indicator in the cockpit and not have colored graphics on the screen. But I don’t really care if other players do that online. Generally I think it would be a good idea to regulate these server side though. 

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2 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

The problem I see is everyone moves the throttle to exactly the 1% border of normal/combat/emergency, rather than a more normal inaccuracy. Without visual warnings and exact % notification you are forced to push the limits, run some risk, or be more conservative. There is none of that when they can ride the % engine mode delimiter, making the current crappy engine mechanics much more gamey.

You do realize that’s not how engines work right? In the real world the times don’t apply in the same manner. And even if they did, hairline errors in power would not secretly put u on the clock. If there was instrument error and gauge tolerances would kill more engines than any pilot could. 

 

Removing aides does not enhance realism necessarily. The game without aides is not real life. For the same reason that fools who think not having a hud in shooters is more realistic than having one. 

 

And lets not not beat around the bush. If these features were removed, those of us who like them would run the risk of every big server removing them. Sorry, but I’m fully behind games having a certain level of curated experience. 

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I fully appreciate realism because it’s more engaging. 

There isn’t a warning light in the cockpit that says “Emergency Power” or “Engine Overheating”

That’s pure arcade gamey stuff. 

Plus with all the work the devs put into every switch and indicator moving in the cockpit, we should all appreciate that instead of looking at colored icons on the screen. 

The silly stuff like “Gun out of Ammo” shouldn’t be there at all. 

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I think people are getting realism mixed up with the FACT that people who use technochat/tips have a distinct advantage over those who don't.

And quite clearly the people who use it realize this, or they wouldn't be to bothered about having a server option to turn it off.

I think, as SharpeXB has said, maybe a visual aid like a slider (without increments) would help those with VR with throttle positions etc without giving any noticeable advantage.

But at the moment you can set 74% throttle 50% mixture 100% prop pitch time and time again without ever having to look at any cockpit gauges.

The tips are just pure arcade, like "pull up the ground is getting near" that surely is just for beginners, and is a total immersion killer!

Nobody is advocating getting rid of them, just an option for those who don't want them in a server....

 

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4 hours ago, Fumes said:

You do realize that’s not how engines work right?

 

Really?? Wow. I had no idea..:rofl:

This isn't the thread for that argument. But we'd be on the same side for that one.

 

 

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On 7/27/2019 at 3:02 PM, Fumes said:

You do realize that’s not how engines work right? In the real world the times don’t apply in the same manner. And even if they did, hairline errors in power would not secretly put u on the clock. If there was instrument error and gauge tolerances would kill more engines than any pilot could. 

 

Removing aides does not enhance realism necessarily. The game without aides is not real life. For the same reason that fools who think not having a hud in shooters is more realistic than having one. 

 

And lets not not beat around the bush. If these features were removed, those of us who like them would run the risk of every big server removing them. Sorry, but I’m fully behind games having a certain level of curated experience. 

Then don't play on that server, there's always wings of liberty for those wanting the most pure russian curated experience. 😉

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On 7/9/2019 at 4:46 PM, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

3) Kill info removed from chat.  Player destroyed player X, plane type X or ground target type X would be removed.  Players would only see results with their own eyes or in the debrief screen.

 

 

This is already a server option.  It was a server option in RoF.  For a while Syndicate shut it off.  It was a disaster.  People chased shot down aircraft right to the ground to confirm that they got the kill.  A lot of people got pissed off.  They turned it back on.  It might be different in a game where you can bail out, but maybe not.

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On 7/27/2019 at 7:55 PM, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

Really?? Wow. I had no idea..:rofl:

This isn't the thread for that argument. But we'd be on the same side for that one.

 

 

And I am not making an argument about that. The point is that its just ridiculous to argue that any of this nets a gain in realism.

 

All simulators, until someone invents the matrix, are abstractions. As such, it make no sense whatsoever to act as if removing all the aides would somehow leave us with base reality. Its literally nonsense: it makes about as much rational sense as to say apples are oranges.

 

Which is why I said this is just another bid from the "harder = more realistic" crowd to force everyone else to play their way. Lets not beat around the bush about this, if certain minimal aides were not enforced, it is extremely likely that it would be standard on the most populated servers. Like I said before, I am not opposed to a curated experience to some degree to prevent the player base from ruining the game in the multiplayer realm.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Fumes said:

Which is why I said this is just another bid from the "harder = more realistic" crowd to force everyone else to play their way.

 

This option would not make it more realistic, because it would be harder, but because it would be ... more realistic. 

Did real life WWII pilots get messages on their screens about entering combat mode or something like that or not? So is it more realistic to get these messages or not?

It is not like, "hey, let's remove reflector sights from planes, so it is harder to hit the enemy, which means it is realistic". If in real life there were reflector sights then we should have them, even if it it would be harder to shoot without a sight.

I understand some tech chat, for example "throttle 50%", because real life pilot might know the lever position by touching it or do a very quick glimpse of an eye, without really having to turn his head and look at the throttle position specifically, or other similar things, where pilot would know that he pushed a button or pulled a lever without having to look at it to check, but warnings about being in combat mode or overheating and things like that are just not realistic.

Edited by II./JG77_Kemp
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2 hours ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

This option would not make it more realistic, because it would be harder, but because it would be ... more realistic. 

Did real life WWII pilots get messages on their screens about entering combat mode or something like that or not? So is it more realistic to get these messages or not?

It is not like, "hey, let's remove reflector sights from planes, so it is harder to hit the enemy, which means it is realistic". If in real life there were reflector sights then we should have them, even if it it would be harder to shoot without a sight.

I understand some tech chat, for example "throttle 50%", because real life pilot might know the lever position by touching it or do a very quick glimpse of an eye, without really having to turn his head and look at the throttle position specifically, or other similar things, where pilot would know that he pushed a button or pulled a lever without having to look at it to check, but warnings about being in combat mode or overheating and things like that are just not realistic.

real life pilots didnt have throttles that work they way ours do. simple as that. why is this hard to understand.

 

the tech chat is there to provide information regarding things that only exist in our game world. If you get rid of the chat, you have an engine that doesnt work like the real one, and no way of knowing what its doing.

 

allow me to be more specific, even though i already said this in a previous post: the engine timers work on a scale that starts just above continuous. If you go even slightly over this, you go into combat. Or into emergency etc. It is even possible for you to be right on the line and have it fluctuate between them. Without the tech chat, there is no way to know this is happening. you would be using up your time without knowing it. Especially in planes with only 1 min of emergency it is very dicey. Also the effect is cumulative, and emergency bits into combat time.

 

So to repeat this again in bullet form:

 

-you dont know when you have entered different settings.

-you dont know how much you have used

 

The tech chat, like in the controls example you gave, exists to mitigate against an engine system that is itself a heavy abstraction.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Fumes said:

eal life pilots didnt have throttles that work they way ours do. simple as that. why is this hard to understand.

 

The point here is about realism and tech chat. Having tech chat warnings that did not exist in real life is less realistic than not having such warnings. Why is that hard to understand?

 

22 minutes ago, Fumes said:

the tech chat is there to provide information regarding things that only exist in our game world. If you get rid of the chat, you have an engine that doesnt work like the real one, and no way of knowing what its doing.

 

If you do not know what the engine is doing, you can play with simplified settings. Other people, that know what the engine is doing, might want a more realistic server option, where that simplified setting is turned off.

 

22 minutes ago, Fumes said:

allow me to be more specific, even though i already said this in a previous post: the engine timers work on a scale that starts just above continuous. If you go even slightly over this, you go into combat. Or into emergency etc. It is even possible for you to be right on the line and have it fluctuate between them. 

 

Great, this is exactly what many people would like to get rid of. They prefer to fly by gauges, sound etc, instead of flying with optimal throttle settings by looking at the arcadish tech chat warnings.

 

22 minutes ago, Fumes said:

Without the tech chat, there is no way to know this is happening.

 

There are gauges in the cockpit, you know. In CloD people actually learned to listen to the engine sound to adjust RPM in combat. With tech chat you of course never have to pay any attention to any of this, you just react to these arcadish warnings.

Edited by II./JG77_Kemp
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43 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

The point here is about realism and tech chat. Having tech chat warnings that did not exist in real life is less realistic than not having such warnings. Why is that hard to understand?

 

No, it is not. It is an objective fact that the tech chat is more realistic than not.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Fumes said:

No, it is not. It is an objective fact that the tech chat is more realistic than not.

 

This is really getting to absurd levels now. 

Maybe you could be so kind and give a reference to a real WWII plane, where that kind of tech chat was functional? Any kind or pilot anecdote, picture or other material would do.

Edited by II./JG77_Kemp
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2 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

This is really getting to absurd levels now. 

Maybe you could be so kind and give a reference to a real WWII plane, where that kind of tech chat was functional?  Any kind or pilot anecdote, picture or other material would do.

It has been at absurd levels ever since the incoherent argument was leveled that the game-tech chat=reality. Or closer to it.

 

Perhaps you'd like to show us what airplane engines operated on hairline percentages with strict absolute timers that had to be obeyed as it they were the laws of physics? Oh wait...there aren't any. Certainly not any of the engines in game.

 

So the bottom line is that this entire thread is about getting rid of chat message because certain parts of the sim community care more about appearances than net realism. But "muh immersion"

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

 

...

There are gauges in the cockpit, you know. In CloD people actually learned to listen to the engine sound to adjust RPM in combat. With tech chat you of course never have to pay any attention to any of this, you just react to these arcadish warnings.

 

I played in clod on 109E1 most of time online on axis side that is manual prop pitch only and never had problems playing and not braking its engines and would knwo by sound what rpm im on in df never had need to look at my ata or rpm all the time, only thing that was important to check was temps. That game can be played with no tech chats.

 

In Bos you cant do same, this game needs tech chat because of how it uses its engine menagment differantly and sound of airplanes states is terible compared to clod so you cant know by it when you entered combat fantasy time mode or not ore even emergancy and so on... 

 

but if they wont to add option for guys who wont to make it harder who cares they can add it, i bet not many servers will have it turned off in this game as game is not made to be played that way...

 

cleaning out the techchat of unnecesary stuff and adding some missing stuff like for example expert+ in 1946 had would be better option then turning it fully of

also simle thing like opening canopy in game vs real life, in real life i know when i opened canopy and it wont open or gets stuck or i open it,

in game without tech chat i can press key to open canopy and nothing happends, did my key broke? did i mis map key? am i to fast to open canopy? is it stuck? how can i know whats going on in game without info, so just turning tech off is not same like real life i dont have feadback like i would in real life... and this is just one simple example

Edited by 77.CountZero
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The issue here is that if you actually try running without Tech tips like some of us have for a number of years now you would realise that those hairline percentages you worry so much about, if you just followed the game engine specifications you would be fine. There usually quite a bit of forgiveness.

 

Ill give an example the 109F4. 

Specifications say 1,3ATA 2500rpm is Combat.

The Tek tips indicate that emergency mode is entered at around 84/85% throttle.

 

That equates to 1,34ATA and over 2500 rpm.

 

Had you flown by your gauges and engine specs you would be at little risk of popping your engine as you have 0,04ATA as a buffer.

 

Let's say you weren't paying too much attention (but really you should be), and happened to run at 1,35 ATA... You have much longer than 1 minute to realise your mistake and correct it. It's not 1 minute the instant you go a fraction into emergency. You need 1.42ATA to have the engine pop just over 1min. But by being at 1,35ATA you are well past engine specs for combat power.

 

Look I don't like engine timers either but having flown without tek tips for a few years now, the number of times I have destroyed an engine due to exceeding operating specs accidentally I could count on one hand. And of those times majority would be due to familiarisation issues with the plane I was in.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Fumes said:

It has been at absurd levels ever since the incoherent argument was leveled that the game-tech chat=reality. Or closer to it.

 

So far you are probably the only one with that incoherent argument, though, or what you called "an objective fact".

 

26 minutes ago, Fumes said:

Perhaps you'd like to show us what airplane engines operated on hairline percentages with strict absolute timers

 

The discussion here is about tech chat, not engine damage model. No need to change the subject. You can't justify every arcadish feature by bringing up some deficiencies in other areas.

 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

In Bos you cant do same, this game needs tech chat because of how it uses its engine menagment differantly and sound of airplanes states is terible compared to clod so you cant know by it when you entered combat fantasy time mode or not ore even emergancy and so on... 

 

Maybe it is not possible to fly in BoS by sound, like in CloD, but you definitely do not need a message to tell you if you are in combat or emergency. There are gauges in the plane.

 

36 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

cleaning out the techchat of unnecesary stuff and adding some missing stuff like for example expert+ in 1946 had would be better option then turning it fully of

 

Exactly, most people are not wanting to turn it fully off, but just get rid of the "engine mode" and temp warnings and other arcadish things like that. Just like I said a couple of posts above already, things like throttle percentage or "pushed button - pulled lever" would be totally fine. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

I played in clod on 109E1 most of time online on axis side that is manual prop pitch only and never had problems playing and not braking its engines and would knwo by sound what rpm im on in df never had need to look at my ata or rpm all the time, only thing that was important to check was temps. That game can be played with no tech chats.

 

In Bos you cant do same, (...)

Damn, I've must be wizard, since I'm flying without techno chat, both SP and MP, with pretty good results.

More serious, I think people are making their own cage. You are saying that it's not possible flying without tech chat because engine limitations, but plenty people are. Are we some kind of tech-priests? Bending engines limitations to work with our will 😁

Quote

 

cleaning out the techchat of unnecesary stuff and adding some missing stuff like for example expert+ in 1946 had would be better option then turning it fully of

also simle thing like opening canopy in game vs real life, in real life i know when i opened canopy and it wont open or gets stuck or i open it,

in game without tech chat i can press key to open canopy and nothing happends, did my key broke? did i mis map key? am i to fast to open canopy? is it stuck? how can i know whats going on in game without info, so just turning tech off is not same like real life i dont have feadback like i would in real life... and this is just one simple example

 

Agree, but for example, why there is a temperature warning in tech chat? There are gauges for that.

In my opinion both sides are right, techno chat is fine, but few information that it provides should be deleted.

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Posted (edited)

it needs to be cleand up and not turned off totaly, waz my broken engliš not clear enof?

to me it looks we all agre to some point

 

must be some woodo stuff thouse techchat off ppl do to control their engines, out of my abilitys for sure in box, ill keep playing in kids area

Edited by 77.CountZero

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The techno chat is a big advantage over looking at the cockpit gauges. Literally like a modern HUD where you can keep your eye on the bandit. If you operate full real without icons you need to take that split second to check your RPMs or MP and that is a situation awareness challenge to deal with. 

So yes, I fully agree on removing icons and techno messages from servers that want full real experience. 

Any sort of game aid just detracts from the experience so I’ll always run with them off. If that puts me at a disadvantage. So be it. I really don’t want to ruin the game, I don’t care so much about my score. But it’s nice to be on a level field. 

And some of the best flight sim experiences I have are having to gauge damage to the aircraft and land it without silly arcade messages telling me “Engine damaged” or “fuel tank damaged”. Listen to the engine, look at your instruments, check to see what’s operating and try to bring the plane back home. That’s the best flight simming gets!

I loved playing CloD Desastersoft “Dead is Dead” career where I had to do all this and survive. 

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12 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

This is already a server option.  It was a server option in RoF.  For a while Syndicate shut it off.  It was a disaster.  People chased shot down aircraft right to the ground to confirm that they got the kill.  A lot of people got pissed off.  They turned it back on.  It might be different in a game where you can bail out, but maybe not.

 

They STILL do that in servers with messages on.  Oh, and sometimes they did that in real war too. 

It still pisses people off even with the messages on.  It pisses more people off when they run down an opponent only to get obliterated by his friend 2 seconds later.  

 

I don't think the messages have much to do with it.  It seems to me that most VVS planes have low ammo loads and mediocre firepower that requires point blank range to get a definitive kill, so there's a lot of chasing and taking small bites from range if one can't get close, and LW planes have so much ammo and firepower that one can afford to be a below average shot and still get kills.  Those who are either target fixated or just trigger happy will MAKE the kill messages pop up in spite of only having to wait a few extra seconds to let the target go down. 

 

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

The techno chat is a big advantage over looking at the cockpit gauges.

I agree, and also with the "engine damage" message.   On the other hand, since I've ditched the techno chat, I haven't blown a single P-40 engine anytime I fly it. 😄 

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4 hours ago, =AVG77=Mobile_BBQ said:

 

They STILL do that in servers with messages on.  

 

Only if they don’t see the message.  Or they really don’t like you.  Otherwise there is no point.  They’re just wasting ammo.

 

In any case, the option already exists.  Find a server that has messages shut off if that’s what you want.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

it needs to be cleand up and not turned off totaly, waz my broken engliš not clear enof?

to me it looks we all agre to some point

 

must be some woodo stuff thouse techchat off ppl do to control their engines, out of my abilitys for sure in box, ill keep playing in kids area

That's because you play with an xbox 360 controller. 👍

 

Been playing the Greek Fire campaign in the spit V with no hud on at all, haven't blown the engine once, there's literally a manual for each plane that tells you the engine limits. If you stick by them you are fine, you know how you do that? By glancing at the gauges. Crazy stuff I know. Also like already stated, the limits aren't extremely strict, if you are a hair over continuous your engine doesn't just blow up immediately after 15 min or whatever your combat time is, it takes forever actually, this is what really pisses me off about your endless fucking whining. The limits aren't baked into the game as a simple woop! you were .01 ata over continuous sorry your 15 minutes is up!! Poof! Yeah they don't work like that at all. You stick by reasonable guide lines and you are fine nearly 90% of the time. Eliminating these stupid tech chats will make people actually fly the planes like they really did, not hit that 83% and keep it there the whole engagement. The tech chat is a horrible arcade feature, it ruins the online environment. Make it a server option and be done with it.

13 hours ago, Fumes said:

It has been at absurd levels ever since the incoherent argument was leveled that the game-tech chat=reality. Or closer to it.

 

Perhaps you'd like to show us what airplane engines operated on hairline percentages with strict absolute timers that had to be obeyed as it they were the laws of physics? Oh wait...there aren't any. Certainly not any of the engines in game.

 

So the bottom line is that this entire thread is about getting rid of chat message because certain parts of the sim community care more about appearances than net realism. But "muh immersion"

You were the one claiming tech chat = reality, you must be smoking the same stuff countzero is.

Edited by JonRedcorn
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I personally don't care whether or not others use techno chat in most cases.  For me personally, I'm finding that I get more from the experience by not using it.  

I agree with those that do use it that want more flexibility to turn on or off parts of it to their liking.  Sometimes it is useful and sometimes it gives way too much and clogs the side of the screen.

 

Do I think that new player benefit from it? Yes.

Do I think that it's training wheels on mode? Mostly yes.  Things like counting how many times you've turned the wheel to open the radiators to optimal settings can be a bit cumbersome, but most settings have gauges built into the planes somewhere.   For example, did you know the Mig-3's flap limiter setting marker is on the floor behind the control column? 

Would I want to see at least one or two servers with the techno chat disabled?  Yes.  

Do I think that ALL servers need to be that way? No.  

 

Besides, I've found that setting the dials just a cat hair behind the marks totally negates any timer other than fuel consumption.  If continuous mode is 2000rpm set it at 1999 and fly until bingo fuel. If the manifold pressure for continuous is 1.15 ATA set it at 1.14999 and have a nice flight.  And JonRedcorn is right, I have yet to see being a cat hair over the settings put my plane on an unstoppable timer from that point on.  

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These warning messages are like playing chess online and having the chess program warn you, when you are in a danger of being checkmated or losing an important piece and giving you suggestions for possible moves. It could be a nice feature for beginners, but not for people that want to play actual chess.

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7 hours ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

These warning messages are like playing chess online and having the chess program warn you, when you are in a danger of being checkmated or losing an important piece and giving you suggestions for possible moves. It could be a nice feature for beginners, but not for people that want to play actual chess.

You really need to work on your analogies.

 

What you just articulated was that the messages supposedly give tactical advice. They do not. For your analogy to work, the tech chat would have to be the tac-chat, and would give the player messages like "do a rolling scissors!" or "hes inside your turn circle!".

 

The equivalent to a chess game tech chat would be if you were playing chess online and the game displayed a message saying "check" since your opponent couldn't do like they would in real life and just say it to you.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Fumes said:

You really need to work on your analogies.

 

If you have a problem understanding these analogies, then it is probably you that needs to do some work on it. 

 

"Overheating" warning in this game is very comparable to "Queen in danger" warning in a chess game, for example.

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20 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

 1). Only if they don’t see the message.  2.) Or they really don’t like you.  3). Otherwise there is no point.  They’re just wasting ammo.

 

In any case, the option already exists. 4.) Find a server that has messages shut off if that’s what you want.

 

1). How many times has "the message" been the plane is sitting in pieces on the ground, but they still shoot?

 

2). This implies that flying "labels on" in servers that have "labels off" as the setting is more common than we would like to believe.  I've never been able to ID players by the plane or skin they choose, or even by how they fly.  I'm sure most others can't as well.

 

3). Lol.  In most German planes, you can waste half your ammo load shooting just for the sake of shooting and still be combat effective with the other half. 

 

4). Believe me, if I had the money and the know-how, I'd make one.

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