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More planes or mire content?

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Businesses work on optimising the expenditure vs. revenue.

 

-snip-

 

 

No shit.

 

-snip-

 

Businesses require money to thrive. Purchasing content is the path to future improvement. Anybody who refuses to quantify that fact, especially over the last year of IL-2 development, is choosing to wear blinders.

 

Over the last year significant headway has been made in improving the game and resolving bugs. If you've convinced yourself otherwise nobody is going to be able to change that for you.

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No shit.

 

 

Over the last year significant headway has been made in improving the game and resolving bugs. If you've convinced yourself otherwise nobody is going to be able to change that for you.

 

Sadly this is to do with long-term persistent bugs, those that existed from early beginning of this game. So what is there to convince me that they will be fixed after I buy a new expansion? Because I bought the last 3 and  they still aren't fixed.

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Sadly this is to do with long-term persistent bugs, those that existed from early beginning of this game. So what is there to convince me that they will be fixed after I buy a new expansion? Because I bought the last 3 and  they still aren't fixed.

 

Doesn't look like you bought the last three to me. Nor is it likely you've been around since the "early beginning of this game." But that's beside the point... Things have consistently improved with every patch. If you're wearing blinders nothing anybody can say and nothing the developers can do is going to get the monkey off your back about it.

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Things have consistently improved with every patch. If you're wearing blinders nothing anybody can say and nothing the developers can do is going to get the monkey off your back about it.

 

I fail to understand how you can think that way - fixing those bugs will directly motivate me to support the company further.

 

Not fixing them will do the opposite.

 

Surely even wearing blinders this point would be pretty clear?

Edited by JaffaCake

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Pls do tell us bugs that worry you and also make sure to submit them to the developers in the appropriate forum.

 

For me sometimes I find engine controls for the Pe2 to be inconsistent on assigned rotaries / axis like RPM (prop pitch) and Fuel.

 

Also find sometimes with click rotaries that I have, some aircraft controls respond well to them and others don't like mapping for trim or radiators on the base rotaries of my X52 Pro.

 

Hope there to be a clean up in the control mapping system with some consolidation and better usage of available HOTAS systems including the mapping of a shift button to allow doubling up of HOTAS controls.  Then one can map for flying and the alternate for bombing.

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How many time have the Dev's explained that D server and Mp network are on the list but resources/personnel are not available

 

they are pretty aware of the bugs/deficiencies 

 

From the start the whole project has been on a (comparative) shoestring, needing more staff has been discussed and acknowledged

 

At current state a new FM/engineer/coder position has been able to be advertised, with BoK release and update there is hope for more expansion of staff with greater sales and pre-orders for BoBP, Tank crew and Circus

 

 

 

Post from Petrovich on hard decisions regarding complaints of netcode (google translate) but Jason has stated similar many times

 

 

"According to the code code, I already answered recently on the forum - we have so far (I hope that for now) there is no networker for this task. In this work there is a share of my participation, but only a share, as an associate. Perhaps from the teamspeak session, it might have been a mistaken impression that this task was mainly mine (it was often Petrovich who sounded painful), but that's not true. First of all, it is necessary to audit the core of the network code (written about ten years ago by a programmer who has not been on the team for a long time), and only then to deal with the optimization of working with these protocols, where I have my participation. This is a big and time-consuming task, which will take months of work, and if you give it to the Lidprogu or me, that will turn us off for these months from other tasks. I, of course, can do this, too, even though the sound engine or interface, but as Jason said, we do not have anyone else in the team who would be involved in modeling development. This is a serious problem for us, because we are practically permanent, during all the years of development, we are in a state of shortage of hands, so for this reason I have to periodically engage in content engineering tasks, because each new project requires a certain minimum set of new aircraft that are available the composition of engineers must be completed in time. We have to leave the culmination and go to the shop, stand up for the lathe. We have no other way out in a state-limited budget. For example, now I'm doing Yak-7B, which is very necessary for the Kuban, and which many players are waiting for. I try to spend this time working on content with benefit, seeking opportunities to implement new features or enhancements. For example, this aircraft will receive improved logic of the landing flaps and the sliding part of the cockpit lantern, small structural changes in the board's operation, a little more detailed DM. Then these two new technologies, our two other engineers, Roma and Sasha, engaged in fulltime content work, will gradually spread to other machines. So slowly the skeleton becomes overgrown with meat, and we have to prioritize based on the resources that we have. This is what Jason is saying, that we are looking for opportunities to improve each direction, but we are maneuvering between the constraints. We need programmers, we need engineers. We need money to pay them a salary. I hope that the Kuban will bring them to us, and we will finally be able to tackle the network as well. "

 

 

 

It is almost a miracle that BoS production was OKayed after the (financial and PR) disaster that was CloD, WWII flight sims are a pretty niche market and not high profit AAA titles, it would be great if the long standing bugs/limitations could be fixed right now, but short of a magic wand it is not going to happen

 

One can only support the project (if you think it worth it)  and hope (as has been seen in the last year) that the team will grow and more bug fixes/features are able to be expedited and the momentum continued

 

anything else is banging your head against a wall or hoping for an alternate reality

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

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Hope there to be a clean up in the control mapping system with some consolidation and better usage of available HOTAS systems including the mapping of a shift button to allow doubling up of HOTAS controls.  Then one can map for flying and the alternate for bombing.

 

I have been so hoping they will do something in that regard.

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For me sometimes I find engine controls for the Pe2 to be inconsistent on assigned rotaries / axis like RPM (prop pitch) and Fuel.

The Pe-2 s. 35 can’t use an axis/rotary for RPM control, since it worked by buttons and not a lever on the real aircraft. On the s.87/110 you can use an axis though, because it did have an RPM lever.

 

If that’s what you mean by “inconsistent”, that’s not a bug but a feature.

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More pre-patch frustration ? ;)

 

I'd suggest not being too harsh on a bit of whingeing here or there.....it's a stressful hobby this....

 

I bought Bodenplatte.....so there's my spending on anything done for a while. I hope my little bit here and there helps.

 

I have a feeling it is my PC that will need spending on it next....

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I have been with IL2 from the very beginning under Oleg, I have everything that has been produced under the IL2 brand since and will continue to support them.

They have given me untold hours of enjoyment over the years and long may it go on.

My one reservation however is buying into 'tanks'... I support them because I enjoy flight simming, so I will probably give the tank side a miss.

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Always excited to pay and get more content though my special wish is for devs to rework mp and sp because both are severly lacking, in result not giving this game the depth it deserves. IMO there`s some disproportion of dedication between planes vs rest of game. Hopefully 3.001 changes it for the better. Even without 3.001 the game is quite big but from my pov lacks 'substance' to enable the content it already has.


 

anything else is banging your head against a wall or hoping for an alternate reality

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

Always two sides to the same problem. Arguably the game is much less than what IL2 was, and that was years 2000-2007. Hard to convince a gamer that you need to fund us to make it happen. Some people bang against a wall, some people move on to other games.

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More players is what is needed.

 

Otherwise there will be no more new content.

 

BTW, planes are content.

 

 

well then I think the plan to sell american planes might be the best idea to get into the untapped american market

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I hope so, but I think the more important issue is how to get more people interested in combat flight simulation in general.

 

It's such a hard sell, high cost of entry because of hardware requirements, huge learning curve with a very high skill floor and an even higher skill ceiling to be really good.  And even if a new player does get to the point where he can cover the basics, he goes online and gets shredded, over and over again, by old timers that have been "flying" non stop for 20 odd years, then they get frustrated and quit for easier/more "fun" games.

 

We have painted ourselves into a difficult corner, and I have no clue what the answer to it is.

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It certainly doesn't help that video cards are all but unattainable these days. 

 

My buddy would like to graduate from IL2-46 to BOX, but replacing his GTX 560Ti with something more serviceable with BOX is a lost cause for the moment.

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-snip-

 

It's such a hard sell, ( A ) high cost of entry because of hardware requirements, ( B ) huge learning curve with a very high skill floor and ( C ) an even higher skill ceiling to be really good.  And ( D ) even if a new player does get to the point where he can cover the basics, he goes online and gets shredded, over and over again, by old timers that have been "flying" non stop for 20 odd years, then ( Bthey get frustrated and quit for easier/more "fun" games.

 

-snip-

 

( A ) Somewhat true - there are lower end offerings as cheap as 30USD that aren't a mountain of an investment to begin with and while it's not optimal, a lot of people already own joypads for other games they play. I've never met anybody who was instantly "serious" enough about the hobby that they were dropping 500USD on a HOTAS, pedals and a headtracker right off the bat.

( B/BTrue. Hence the frustration and quitting for games that render more immediate enjoyment.

( C ) Very true. Even after a decade of playing sim games, it still seems like I haven't hit the point of being "good." There's a difference between being a decent pilot (flying is easy, learning new planes is easy) and being an effective combat pilot... Especially in the scope of fighter operations.

( D ) True. I think it's important to keep in mind that the majority of people who play IL-2 aren't doing so online. In fact, playing online feels like a massive chore to me. It felt the same when I was with ACG, feels the same when trying to casually play MP, feels the same when approaching objective based MP servers... I just don't derive enjoyment from playing online.

Edited by Space_Ghost
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I hope so, but I think the more important issue is how to get more people interested in combat flight simulation in general.

 

It's such a hard sell, high cost of entry because of hardware requirements, huge learning curve with a very high skill floor and an even higher skill ceiling to be really good.  And even if a new player does get to the point where he can cover the basics, he goes online and gets shredded, over and over again, by old timers that have been "flying" non stop for 20 odd years, then they get frustrated and quit for easier/more "fun" games.

 

We have painted ourselves into a difficult corner, and I have no clue what the answer to it is.

 

As a very fresh player that came back to combat flight sims recently (I think my last combat simulator was 1942 Pacific Air War about 20 years ago), I was really on the fence with Eastern Front theater and Russian / German planes that I am not very familiar with and that do not really do much for me. I am sure I am not the only one here.

 

The answer to make this game more interesting for broader group of people and more interesting for inexperienced pilots is quite simple. Single player campaigns with a lot of content (we are almost there I hope) and MP co-op missions or even co-op campaigns against AI... and of course Western front and Pacific. 

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I gave as a gift Il2 Bos to my nephew and a friend for their birthdays, and I also convinced a friend to buy it.

All are gamers, all like airplanes, 2 of them fly real planes, the other RC planes.

The 3 of them told me the missions / campaigns were boring and stopped playing.

 

Single player is more important that what most think it is, everyone starts there and if it is lacking then they leave.

 

Buying Il2 as a gift was not easy at all either, was a time consuming complcated process.

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I gave as a gift Il2 Bos to my nephew and a friend for their birthdays, and I also convinced a friend to buy it.

All are gamers, all like airplanes, 2 of them fly real planes, the other RC planes.

The 3 of them told me the missions / campaigns were boring and stopped playing.

 

Single player is more important that what most think it is, everyone starts there and if it is lacking then they leave.

 

Buying Il2 as a gift was not easy at all either, was a time consuming complcated process.

 

Tell them a new campaign system (Career) is coming here soon, which should be way better than what originally shipped with the sim.

Also in the meantime there is PWCG, which is outstanding. 

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Single player is more important that what most think it is, everyone starts there and if it is lacking then they leave.

 

 

Amen!

 

While there are certainly some who start out purely with the goal of MP, it's probably the case that most start out with SP in mind and then MP, if they choose to, once they feel they have a grasp of how to fly well (enough) in the sim.

 

This why a QMB is so important. It lets the flyer, quickly and easily, try one thing, then try another, and then try it a bit different with more of this and more of that, and build up both his skills in the sim and his enjoyment of the sim. And the QMB in BOX is barely(!) adequate; an empty world of anemic scenarios.

 

I love this sim, but it's SP design input capabilities are.............. "lacking". :rolleyes:

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I haven't heard you mention the QMB before Canada - tell us more.

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I haven't heard you mention the QMB before Canada - tell us more.

In the meantime while CanadaOne is preparing his manifesto, allow me to expound upon how important good AI speech and other features of ambient immersion are to singleplayer. I don't think I've ever mentioned what a boost they provide to even the most basic mission... :)

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I remember in the old IL2, there were some great voice packs out there that replaced the stock ones.

The RAF one was brilliant and I still have it installed. Very immersive!

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In the meantime while CanadaOne is preparing his manifesto, allow me to expound upon how important good AI speech and other features of ambient immersion are to singleplayer. I don't think I've ever mentioned what a boost they provide to even the most basic mission... :)

I'm pretty sure they know. Like everything else it takes time. Jason has set the priority for now to secure more income from a wider base of players. The more people buy into Great Battles, the more they will be able to accomplish. Hopefully Bodenplatte, tanks and Flying Circus will bring the funding to allow expansion of the team. It will also give them another development cycle to work on more core improvements. They've already accomplished quite a lot in the Kuban cycle.

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I haven't heard you mention the QMB before Canada - tell us more.

 

:P  "Pfffft!"

 

Just because you're one of those egghead physicists who can handle the FMB doesn't mean we all are. Us working class boobs need a QMB with some game to it.

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This sim desperately needs something to make the environment come alive.

 

We need community created content, ...Flocks of birds, livestock, ground objects, people, civilian vehicles, greater variety of buildings, while developers concentrate on the big stuff...aircraft will always be what brings in the $$$.

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This sim desperately needs something to make the environment come alive.

 

We need community created content, ...Flocks of birds, livestock, ground objects, people, civilian vehicles, greater variety of buildings, while developers concentrate on the big stuff...aircraft will always be what brings in the $$$.

 

Yup - nothing feels as great as strafing peasantry and cows. ;)

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I vote for Pacific map and aircraft carrier content.

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The Pe-2 s. 35 can’t use an axis/rotary for RPM control, since it worked by buttons and not a lever on the real aircraft. On the s.87/110 you can use an axis though, because it did have an RPM lever.

 

If that’s what you mean by “inconsistent”, that’s not a bug but a feature.

Hey Finkeren,  I know the s35 is different but I am talking of the 87 here.  Last night on TAW I flew her 4 times of which 3 times the RPM on rotary was giving me 100% for 100% rotation to pitch change and then the last time, it was 50% rotation for 100% pitch change on the rotary.  It's just inconsistent and would prefer 100% rotation for 100% RPM adjustment as it makes tuning the RPMs easier.

 

Given my wonderful TAW performance, it looks like I will be assigned a life of Milk runs for VVS ))

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As this can never be 100 per cent realistic, (it is a flight sim 'game') after all, for me, I would like the controls settings to be like the old IL2... functions could be set on buttons or an axis.

I don't want a multitude of different settings for the same control function just for the sake of historical reasons... it would be nice to have the 'option', (options are good things)... they allow the user to play his game the way they want.

 

And let's not have the MP thing thrown in our faces because people may then have an unfair advantage of some kind... the SP community is far larger than MP and the dev's know that.

 

As it stands, Jason has stated they are going to revisit how controls can be mapped in the future, as we all know, the old game got many things right... more options being one of them!

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I am done buying the same bf109z and yak100x.

Game needs more content and fixes if it stays in europe

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I am done buying the same bf109z and yak100x.

Game needs more content and fixes if it stays in europe

You show em!

Now drive it home by leaving the forum until you're happy with every single thing.

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I have been away for a couple of months and decided not to take out my gear out of the closet before the new patch drops (it's a bit overdue ain't it?). But here I come to check the forum and see this.

 

You know what I want? Nothing. Nothing that hasn't already been announced and is in the pipeline. We have a fairly balanced and diverse planeset, all maps are available to everyone in MP, so the community is not divided between servers, singleplayer is there and is fun. I don't feel like I am missing any crucial planes or features to fully enjoy the game and what is soon to come will fix the minor gripes I might have with the sim. To me it's a fairly complete and issueless package and that is something uncommon with games today (beta this, early access that, wait 10 years till we give you all the stuff promised in the kickstarter, bla bla bla).

 

You people got planes, got maps, got guns, got a working and well optimized MP, there is a bunch of great and free community made SP campaigns, the AI ain't bad, physics is top notch as is the damage model destroys the competition. LIFE IS GOOD!

 

(yes, I am a shill and a fanboy, what you gonna do?)

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(yes, I am a shill and a fanboy, what you gonna do?)

 

Well i was gonna upvote you just for your positivity and enthusiasm but I'm out of upvotes already.  :(

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Well i was gonna upvote you just for your positivity and enthusiasm but I'm out of upvotes already.  :(

 

Have one of mine then. ;)

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Have one of mine then. ;)

 

I'll pay you back tomorrow. :lol:

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I would definitely vote for more content.

 

New planes are fun but we would not be able to make the most of them if they are not put in a good environment. Making better AI, better radio communication, better netcode and so on will increase the value of the existing planes and the ones to come.

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As a "medium core" (I jump into this game from time to time) player I would by far say more content and immersion over new planes. Sure a new plane is fun to fly but what really makes me want to spend more money is more immersive content. For example the new career mode is definitely something I am excited about checking out.

Edited by AstroCat

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I would definitely vote for more content.

 

New planes are fun but we would not be able to make the most of them if they are not put in a good environment. Making better AI, better radio communication, better netcode and so on will increase the value of the existing planes and the ones to come.

Cannot agree more particularly as it relates to AI and comms.

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