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My new gimbal joystick project

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Hello guys, this is my new project for a new gimbal joystick.808NQ5v.jpg

 

I was inspired to several examples I found in internet. Now I would to realise the cams who center the axis by a little ball bearing and spring. I saw in tnternet several shape for these cams: some vith a V shape more or less open and other with a curved shape, similar to a involute spiral profile.

What do you think is the more functional profile? V shape or a involute spiral profile?

Many thanks for your help?

Ciao!

Marco

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Will follow this with interest Marco.

Not sure what kind of springs you have to choose from but those can also affect progressiveness (number of coils/thickness of wire).

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Why you don't experiment with a existing design, and if need make changes, instead start be scratch?

 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2496028

 

In "josytick" language are a inconclusive topic in Avia-forum (Russian) start using the Involute of a Circle for draw a concave CAM.

 

For conventional CAM exist books and more books, with lot of math involved as well computer software. E.g.

 

http://eng.sut.ac.th/me/box/2_54/425306/Cam%20Design.pdf

 

VKB say that their - no linear CAM, follow the load of this graphic, with light load around the center.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2018/post-979-0-75638100-1517185998.jpg

 

I guess that VPC  "V" shaped CAM use a more linear load.

 

BRD symmetric dual arm CAM seems mix the both features, is more linear in the center - but with a wide 'V" and low load, and with increase load near  the tip's.

 

You find people that prefer one or other system. :)

Edited by Sokol1

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Why you don't experiment with a existing design, and if need make changes, instead start be scratch?

 

Sokol, because I love to build this kind of mechanism! I love to desing mechanism and build it.

 

For cams (and gimbals) I was inspired by these topics:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3471343/all/Gimbal_design

 

http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?21882-My-Homemade-Flight-Simulator-a-Work-In-Progress

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/printthread/Board/81/main/409874/type/thread

 

That you posted in other internet forums. You are my spirit guide in this project.... ;):biggrin:

 

Yesterday I design my cams and next I will show you. Obviously I haven't experience in this kind of stuff, so if somebody has some tips, they will be very appreciated.

 

 

I guess that VPC  "V" shaped CAM use a more linear load.

 

Me too have the same opinion. I designed one with involute curve and another with V shape. Then, before realise them in ergal, I will print in 3D to test both.

 

 

Hi markino. What type of joystick are you planning on making?

 

Hi ACG_Passion, I have already my home made joystick, assemblend in the current gimbal joystick I built time ago.

 

LSij4Vq.jpg

 

The gimbal is not very functional, so, looking to internet builders linked above, I have decided to build a new one.

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Ciao.

 

Marco

Edited by markino

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Hi guys thanks for your replies!

 

@pirato: is a normal water tube, usually is used for domestic plumbing. Is a three layer tube: plastic/aluminium/plastic. I bended it by a manual bending equipment lent me by a friend of mine.

 

@jaffacake: yes jaffa, as I already report above, it's my biggest source of inspiration.

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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Fantastic work Markino. It's almost the same mechanism as I used to build my first joystick. You can make anything with pillow bearings, threaded bar and copper pipe :-) this is my current project a flight yoke. Its mostly just plumbing and electrical fitting with a roofing cowel for a flue and some motorcycle kill switches for triggers. Ive used hall sensors in this for the first time as I couldn't find pots that wouldnt spike after a few months. Are you using a bodnar board?

 

Cheers

ACG_Passion

post-153471-0-62271900-1518551163_thumb.jpg

Edited by ACG_Passion

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Hi ACG_Passion, cool flight joke :) . Very useful for bombers and multiengine.

Yes I am using a Leo Bodnar BU0836X card.

 

 

Looking in internet to find some ideas I found this topic about gimbal joystick:

 

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=758

 

Very interesting the kind of cams used and their arrangement. I will try to assemble a gimbal v3.0 using this kind of cams.

 

They give a more compact appearence to the gimbal.

 

Similar cams are used in the gimbal shared above by Sokol: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2496028

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

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I'd consider STM32F103C8T6 as the mainboard for this project, much cheaper with same 12-bit ADC resolution.

 

https://github.com/OpenSimHardware/PedalButtonController

 

Moreover as AS5600 can output PWM signal you may be better off not bothering with ADC at all and process PWM signal directly with the microcontroller.

Edited by JaffaCake

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Thanks  Jaffa and Sokol for your suggestions! :):good:

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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Thanks  Jaffa and Sokol for your suggestions! :):good:

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

 

Would appreciate some of your thoughts on the suggestions too - its a two-way process! :) Especially as I am thinking of making some 3d-printed add-ons myself as well.

 

I had a further look at BU0836X board, and it seems you lack the ability to program the MCU - as in it acts a little more like plug-and-play. It may be easier in short term to work with it, but running your own programmable MCU (such as the one I suggested) will allow you much more flexibility in general (joining axes together, running axis profiles on the MCU rather than having additional software on the PC for it etc.)

 

Besides all of the above, you also will have the option to make the JS work over bluetooth / wifi (hc-05 or esp8266) if you want a remote gadget.

 

 

I actually appreciate a lot your mention of AS5600, as I was thinking of using a digital compass, which is too slow in comparison.

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Hi Jaffa, for toughts and suggestions about mechanical devices I can help you, but for electronics I am the worse you can find here.... :blush:. When you speak about MCU, Arduino, JS, hc-05 or esp8266, etc. they sound me as arab language....

 

For electronics I try to understand in the Sokol's suggestions and other mates suggestions, those more useful for my purposes. When I built the flaps control using a electronic guitar switch Sokol and a friend of mine (electronic engineer) helped me a lot. The JoyToKey mapping for this device was made by my friend, I could never have done it alone (https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29873-mjoy16-usb-circuit-board/page-2).

 

About 3D printing add-ons I think is a good idea for some parts. For example the flight joke you scratched-built wuold be georgeous in 3D printing. I built my handgrip joystick in 3D and I am very satisfied (https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29873-mjoy16-usb-circuit-board/).

I would not use it to do mechanical parts. For them I prefer the usal (for me) mechanical construction: metal parts and mechanical machining.

 

I will try to use the AS5600 sensor because it permit me to adjust the electric angle for my purposes. Unfortunately I need angles not in normal use for the most commercial Hall sensors.

 

I will be happy to help you as much as I can.

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi guys, after several weeks I almost finished to drawing my gimbal joystick. Few minor parts are yet to drawing, but the main assembly is finished.

The first parts are already at work.

 

0dlGpvN.jpg

 

PlSY2v7.jpg

 

Q23VJrb.jpg

 

I hope the AS5600 sensor  will be functional to the purpose.

 

Ciao.

 

Marco

 

 

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Now looks "modern". :)

 

But your CAM profile will make the center position very "clunk".

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Hi Sokol, yes, the cam profile  it's done this way on purpose. I would to "feel" the center position of the joystick during the game... Then if the "clunck" will be too hard I can soften the profile to reduce the hardness...

 

Regarding the sensor AS5600, I would to purchase the Eval kit (http://ams.com/eng/Support/Demoboards/Magnetic-Position-Sensors/Angle-Position-On-Axis/AS5600-Eval-Kit) , to correctly calibrate the angle I need for the joystick travel , and another adapterboard (http://ams.com/eng/Support/Demoboards/Magnetic-Position-Sensors/Angle-Position-On-Axis/AS5600-Adapterboard) , to connect X and Y axis.

 

Do you know if is possible to calibrate the sensors with the Eval kit and then connect them to BU0836X card? I understood that eval kit calibrate the sensor in digital mode, but then, can I use it on BU0836X card in analog mode?

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

 

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But don't need have this center too pronounced like in drawing - this will require excessive force for move grip away from center position, with a similar lock of Saiteks or Thrustmaster gimbals.

 

As "rule of the thumb" if the diameter of CAM center match the upper part of bearing diameter with have a "stop" in center,  subtle noticed in gently movements and "clunck" is fast movements of grip.

 

Anyway no big issue if you make CAM ease replaceable,  just make a new. :) 

 

The AMS Eval kit looks interesting, but costly. The other is just the sensor in a PCB ready to use, but need consider if holes for fixation fit in your gimbal design.

 

Thing is besides the previous linked trim wheel no other DIY use of  AMS5600  was tested until now.

 

If the sensor has a digital output to connect in Bu0836 analog inputs will be need a extra adapter circuit in between.

 

May use instead the MLX90333 ready to use for analog inputs.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1PCS-MLX90333-Triaxis-3D-Joystick-Position-Sensor-NEW/152187283907?epid=709788784&hash=item236f11a9c3:g:O-QAAOSwbsBXnHQH

 

 

 

 

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Hi Sokol, yes, the cams are not the big deal, if they would be too hard is easily to change the profile to soften the movement.

 

On 7/4/2018 at 8:37 PM, Sokol1 said:

....

If the sensor has a digital output to connect in Bu0836 analog inputs will be need a extra adapter circuit in between.

...

 

What do you mean by extra adapter circuit in between? Could you give me an example?

 

The sensor you suggest is interesting, but is not rotative. Maybe the MLX90316 would be more functional for my joy.

 

Ciao.

 

Marco

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I don't know DIY circuit to convert digital output in analog output... anyway this route will add unnecessary complication, skip this.

 

If the use of AMS in analog mode is not possible without extra parts, don't get this sensor.

 

Try MLX90333 or Bi-Tech's or even DIY assembly with Honeyweel SS495A1 or Allegro A1424 EUAT.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sokol1

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Hi Sokol, thanks for the info. I retrieve information on the various sensors and see which one is more for me.

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

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Well, after several weeks I managed to build the designed gimbal joystick. 😀 Mechanically it works, now I proceed with the electronically parts....🤞

 

508618608_joy1.thumb.jpg.c0c1a60051197b8486cecc74015adb5b.jpg

 

1277964552_joy2.thumb.jpg.2dcf6942f057450c34064a487091deed.jpg

 

1197614442_joy3.thumb.jpg.65c71e185eaf2e98dc6077a2b3812045.jpg

 

1694921126_joy4.thumb.jpg.d1c2d01e405fb443f4f1bda7293dbcf7.jpg

 

652923572_joy5.thumb.jpg.520e3f64a5842195afc52361eba6a8df.jpg

 

55240515_joy6.thumb.jpg.e737235490b76d016ba94136187791c4.jpg

 

1845932485_joy7.thumb.jpg.1199958b5110e506bd1ef3a6d3a07efd.jpg

 

 

 

It seems a little "snappy" but with the long bar it should improve the fluidity of the movement, otherwise I adjust it to get a softer movement.

 

Thanks for your comments and impressions.

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

  • Upvote 1

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Hi Rani, I must yet to set the Hall sensors and calibrate the angle, then I'll tell you if works....I hope...😬

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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Hello guys, after several months I managed to do operate the gimbal joystick, setting the Hall sensors properly. The joystick works fine and it seems  precise and smooth in operation.

Here some pictures of the joystick in position with the control stick.

 

e9Yyxr4.jpg

 

yZRhDTN.jpg

 

 

YcsdtM2.jpg

 

Zk7oJDg.jpg

 

azb1Htv.jpg

 

tyECDaH.jpg

 

 

The aluminium metal sheet cover and the rubber bellow, inspired by my Ford Fiesta car gear shift rubber bellow, are still missing. I will set them next week after testing the joystick.

As you can see on the video the springs are quite weak. I will replace them with strongest springs in the coming days.

The yellow square is the place where I will open a squared wires passage to avoid tear off the cables with feet.

Ciao!

 

Marco

 

  • Like 1

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Nice craftsmanship, the CAM's profile result in a bit "clunck" operation. :)

 

Which is the sensor you use?

 

 

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Hi Sokol, I used the AS5600, http://ams.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Position-Sensors/Angle-Position-On-Axis/AS5600, as discussed several replies above.

 

The sound "clank-clanck" it is audible only if the stick is swinging from its central position. Normally, handling the stick for normal operations, the sound it is hardly noticeable.

 

Now I am redrawing the engines controls using the AS5600.

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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Hi guys, after several weeks I finished the joystick. It works fine and the movements are smooth and precisesly.

 

0WzJmbS.jpg

 

ck3LPAf.jpg

 

s9NMCz5.jpg

 

zFCOI0J.jpg

 

retCiLu.jpg

 

BPtDKxl.jpg

 

9646qgt.jpg

 

bl2uXdW.jpg

 

Next step will be the throttles with AS5600 Hall sensors.

 

Ciao.

 

Marco

  • Upvote 2

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Beautiful job !!!! I can't help but think the boot around the bottom is from a cv axle--- ( if so, pretty clever )

 

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18 minutes ago, soarfeat said:

Beautiful job !!!! I can't help but think the boot around the bottom is from a cv axle--- ( if so, pretty clever )

 

 

Thank you for appreciation Soarfeat. For the boot do you mean the rubber one?

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Google translator is my friend! No, the rubber cap is a car spare part. To be precise is a Ford Fiesta Titanium 1.4 diesel car gear lever....like the one in my car...😉

 

Ciao!

 

Marco

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10 minutes ago, =EXPEND=DendroAspis said:

Bravo! Fantastic job. When does production begin so we can buy???

 

Eh....at the moment I builded this one and I really do not know how much it could cost....

If other people were interested, I could estimate the final cost....

 

M

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Maybe I could try to make the mechanism more compact and cheapest.....🤔

 

Let's see....

 

M

 

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