ATAG_Flare Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 Tempest. Spitty IX almost had my vote, you can't find a prettier plane than the Spitty, but I'm so excited to have that raw power of the 24 cylinder engine of the Tempest in front of me. Not to mention the quad 20mm cannons. This thing will be a beast. Probably the fastest out of the bunch apart from the 262. If I had to pick one plane to fight the 262 with it would be the Tempest. Also the 109s just won't be able to catch it.
1./KG4_OldJames Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 I like underdogs, so Fw190-A8. Especially if it gets the F-8 mod. Not often you read of an FW190 being reffered to as an underdog! It may sound a little geeky, but I am looking forward to the Tempest engine startup. I believe the Napier engine used the explosive cartridge method of starting, and had a tendency to catch fire if overprimed! will that be modelled?
Tomsk Posted January 5, 2018 Author Posted January 5, 2018 Not often you read of an FW190 being reffered to as an underdog! The FW 190 D9 was definitely not an underdog, that thing is a monster. But by this point in the war the A8 had been fairly heavily specialised as a bomber killer, and so a bit overweight for fighter work.
Raptorattacker Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 Thunderbolt for me. Not only because it's about as 'workhorse' as it gets but also because I do a lot of skinning and this is one that has particularly taken up a lot of time, deep into the early hours!!
Thad Posted March 7, 2018 Posted March 7, 2018 On 12/24/2017 at 9:06 PM, PatrickAWlson said: Voted 262 but was sorely tempted by the P38 as well. Salutations, Exact opposite for me. Voted P38 but the 262 would have been my second choice.
Gambit21 Posted March 7, 2018 Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) On 1/5/2018 at 9:39 AM, [3./J88]PikAss said: I am really in Love with that plane and wonder why not more people voted for it. It's a beautiful aircraft, one of my favorites if I can use it for it's intended purpose. However with regard to tactical operations there's not much for some of us to get excited about...late war, fast, high-alt fighter with no mud-moving ability to speak of. Aircraft that can take put the hurt on a convoy and fight their way home on the other hand....that means Jug, Tempest, P-47...and look where the votes are. I'll build a few Dora high-alt bomber intercept missions (B-25's) for it for grins...should be good fun. The real fun though is in the weeds. Edited March 8, 2018 by Gambit21
TP_Sparky Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) On 12/24/2017 at 3:32 PM, Habsburger said: "What is it about P-47 that makes people wild? I know it was quite an excellent plane by all accounts, but it has never given me that 'spark' that many other planes do. Same goes for the P-38, which a lot of people seem to love, but I can't get past it's ugliness (this coming from someone who thinks the Brewster Buffalo is a beauty and not the flying beer-barrel it may or may not in fact be...) " Interesting. I, too, am amazed at the ferocious praise heaped on the Jug by her pilots before most of their squadrons switched to '51's. Late-war the targets were often ground attack and the Jug bore damage better and still RTB. But it was huge! Walk up to a 51 at an airshow and then stand next to a 47 and it seems as big as the Love Boat. It's a monster. The 38 is another matter. I think it looks sleek, futuristic and beautiful although air whistling in the gun ports cooled the gun compartment and froze pilots' feet. It's no dogfighter but boom and zoom. My great uncle flew a P-38 in WWII. He flew from England to his first combat squadron in the Continent (Belgium, perhaps) and his aircraft exploded in the traffic pattern. My great aunt, his sister could find no info on how he died and finally learned that not long after her brother's death a nighttime German bombing raid hit a barracks where that squadron slept killing many pilots. That's why there were few to tell her how her brother died. Even had her brother lived the barracks bombing would have got him, according to what my aunt learned. My pick is the P-51 because of it's range, dogfighting performance and it's artificial horizon. Even in VR, there's no feel to the aircraft so while in IMC (in the clouds, etc.) I need reference and needle, ball, airspeed is so much more painful than also having an artificial horizon in your scan. Edited March 8, 2018 by slparker17
Sotka94 Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, slparker17 said: The 38 is another matter. I think it looks sleek, futuristic and beautiful although air whistling in the gun ports cooled the gun compartment and froze pilots' feet. It's no dogfighter but boom and zoom. My great uncle flew a P-38 in WWII. He flew from England to his first combat squadron in the Continent (Belgium, perhaps) and his aircraft exploded in the traffic pattern. My great aunt, his sister could find no info on how he died and finally learned that not long after her brother's death a nighttime German bombing raid hit a barracks where that squadron slept killing many pilots. That's why there were few to tell her how her brother died. Even had her brother lived the barracks bombing would have got him, according to what my aunt learned. Poor guy Edited March 8, 2018 by Habsburger
Falkenstein Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 I'm looking forward to the P-38L, the "final and definitive production version of the Lightning". The largest quantity produced for any version of the Lightning was the L, and while most Lightnings were sent to the Pacific theater, at the time of Operation Bodenplatte the 367th Fighter Group (392nd, 393rd, and 394th squadrons) were flying their P-38 Lightnings out of Juvincourt airfield in northern France in heavy support of Bastogne, where they had a forward air controller team that arrived on 19 December, shortly before the Wehrmacht closed the last road into town. The Ninth Air Force's 474th Fighter Group flew their Lightnings until the cessation of hostilities with Germany. Dive flaps, which first appeared on the last production block of the P-39J, were standard on the L, reducing compressibility dangers during high speed dives. Along with the introduction of aileron power boost on the P-38J-25-LO "there was a remarkable improvement in the roll rate and turn". "Early problems, to include the wing intercooler, cockpit heating and defrosting, high aileron forces, and compressibility in a dive, were all addressed and solved during the P-38J production." Also at the time of the Bodenplatte operation , we had the USAAF 's 1st Fighter Group (27th, 71st, and 94th squadrons) flying the P-38 out of Salsola, Italy. (It was from Salsola that their P-38s supported the B-17 and B-24 raids on the Ploesti, Rumania, oil refineries, as well as all three squadrons escorting the 48 P-38s of the 82nd Fighter Group that conducted a low level dive bomb attack on Ploesti on 10 June 1944 from their Vincenzo airstrip near Foggio, Italy.) "It was rebuilt by the US Army Corps Of Engineers in late 1943. The only known unit to operate from the field is 1st Fighter Group, flying P-38 Lightnings between 8 January 1944 and 8 January 1945. After a brief deployment elsewhere they returned from 21 February 1945 until March 1945. The last combat missions were flown in March 1945 and the airfield closed in April." http://www.forgottenairfields.com/italy/apulia/foggia/salsola-s569.html The Lockheed P-38 Lightning, Warren M. Bodie P-38 Lightning in detail & scale, Part 2: P-38J through P-38M - D&S Vol. 58, Bert Kinzey The Dynamite Gang, The 367th Fighter Group in World War II, Richard Groh An Escort of P-38s, The 1st Fighter Group in World War II, John D. Mullins 1 2
Panthera Posted March 11, 2018 Posted March 11, 2018 I honestly almost can't choose, I just really wish the Spitfire Mk.XIV was on the list and I am really hoping it gets added as a collectable not long after release.
sevenless Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 Spitfire XIV, Typhoon and Mosquito would be nice as additions for the future. Oh and of course Martin B26 Marauder, B25 Mitchell and A26 Invader as AI Planes? And while we are on it I really would love to see the P61 Black Widow in the game. Time will tell.
=FEW=Hauggy Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 I was hesitating between the P-47 and the Tempest, I'll go for the Tempest because cannons Damn I would love a I-153 biplane and a A6M Zero next <3
Poochnboo Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Hapsburger said he does not like the P-38 and can't get past it's ugliness!!!?? Honestly, that is the first time I have ever heard anyone say the words P-38 and ugly in the same sentence. What a graceful, sleek airplane it is. To each his own, of course. But, he does also say that he likes the Brewster Buffalo, so maybe he isn't quite serious. If he is, I hope he hasn't stopped taking his medicine! The Lightning is, for me, a much anticipated airplane. I'm afraid, though, that I have a feeling it might be one of the last we get because of the airplanes complexity. I hope not.
Poochnboo Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) To be fair to Hapsburger, I just reread his post and saw that he is a Spitfire fan. So he hasn't lost his mind completely. Unreasonable states, however, that no P-38's seem to have been involved in the operation. None were lost that day. I think there is an attempt at saying that the airplane should not be in the game because of that. There is a reason for no P-38 losses, however. The 9TH Air Force had three P38 Groups in the area at this time. The airplane definately belongs in the game. But Le Culot, the P-38 Lightning base, led a charmed life that day. I/JG4 and II/JG4 were assigned to Le Culot. Amazingly, BOTH squadrons got lost and attacked the wrong bases. One went after the airfield at Asch and shot up P-47's there. The other found the RAF base at Ophoven and went in after that. Le Culot and it's Lightnings went untouched. And so, after having coffee to help with their hangovers, the pilots of the 367th took off with bombs hanging under their wings that had "Happy New Year!" written on them. They attacked rail traffic near Frankfurt, destroying locomotives and freight cars. They also blew up an ammo dump. The 370TH attacked tanks and troops near Bullingen. Unfortunately none of the German tanks were destroyed. They did destroy a field kitchen, however! The 474TH attacked German transport units and napalmed a Belgium chateau housing a German headquarters near La Roche. Yes, P-38's should be in BOP. Edited March 15, 2018 by Poochnboo 1
Falkenstein Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Poochnboo said: But Le Culot, the P-38 Lightning base ... I would enjoy learning more about this information. I saw an Operation Bodenplatte Luftwaffe target list which indicated P-38s at Le Culot, but the P-38 Fighter Groups were actually based elsewhere. Perhaps Florennes airfield was not on the target list because the original expectation was the ground forces would overrun it? Maybe they expected the six P-38 squadrons there to end up at Le Culot? 367th Fighter Group (392nd, 393rd, and 394th Fighter Squadrons): Juvincourt, France 370th Fighter Group (401st, 402nd, and 485th Fighter Squadrons): Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium 474th Fighter Group (428th, 429th, and 430th Fighter Squadrons): Florennes / Juzaine, Belgium From BlackSix's thread, https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/34152-bobp-us-9th-air-force-dates-and-plane-types-sep-1944-mar-1945/, we can see that for Florennes airfield "the units are located into the approximate boundaries of our future map" while for Juvincourt, France, "the units are located outside the approximate boundaries of our future map". As the expansion announcement stated, "Although it was technically an “operation”, for continuity sake, we’re calling it a battle! Battle of Bodenplatte will explore the air war near the end of 1944 and into 1945.", so I agree that the P-38L absolutely belongs in the Sept. '44 to March '45 timeframe! The P-38s were heavily involved against the German assault once the weather cleared on December 23rd, especially since the 393rd Squadron's Captain James E. Parker and his forward air control team arrived at Bastogne on December 19th, just hours before the Wehrmacht closed the last road into town. The 367th Fighter Group from Juvincourt airfield escorted bombers, as well as escorting C-47s dropping supplies to Bastogne, and doing their own "armed reconnaissance" ground attack missions with 500 lb bombs in the area. One action on Christmas Eve had 12 P-38s of the 394th over Trier vectored to 25 FW 190s, with a P-47 squadron also joining in. Col Seth McKee, 370th Fighter Group C.O., is quoted as "I recall that when the weather broke, it was bright and clear. I could take off and I'd be making a run on a target. I could look down there and I'd see my target. I'd look over here and I could see our airbase. We were that close. It would take about fifteen or twenty minutes to fly a mission." The Dynamite Gang, The 367th Fighter Group in World War II, Richard Groh The 370th Fighter Group in World War II, Jay Jones 1
Poochnboo Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 Yes, Falkenstien! This confused me, too, as I was researching this. Four different sources mention this Le Culot attack on the P-38's including two Luftwaffe accounts, one unit history about the 367th and another book called, "To Win The Winter Sky." Yet on researching the P-38 bases, I found the same info as you. As a matter of fact I found photos of Le Culot being used as a P-47 field. It may very well be as you say, that they were supposed to move but did not. The 367th story is not detailed, but mentioned that the group was scheduled to move to a base in Belgium but could not because of the battle of the Bulge. 1
JG7_X-Man Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 If they add the Spit XIVe - please give me the Fw 190D-13 or Ta 152-C1
Legioneod Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 P-47 rugged and beautiful, and my favorite aircraft of the war besides the B-24. 1
Ropalcz Posted March 18, 2018 Posted March 18, 2018 P-47. Can´t wait for strike missions against trains and armored columns 1
Talisman Posted April 23, 2018 Posted April 23, 2018 ‘If You Must Have the Best’ — Buy a Hawker Tempest Mk V. 7 tons of wildly accelerating heaven (2,400hp Napier Sabre engine), out-dove P-47s. Fw 190s regarded as ‘an easy kill, particularly if they tried to dive’ — you dive a Tempest with the throttle firmly SHUT, or you overtake whatever is in front of you. 4 x short-barreled Hispano cannon inside a superb wing. Feared by Me 262 pilots (no, really — revealed under interrogation) 2
Gambit21 Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 9 hours ago, 56RAF_Talisman said: ‘If You Must Have the Best’ — Buy a Hawker Tempest Mk V. 7 tons of wildly accelerating heaven (2,400hp Napier Sabre engine), out-dove P-47s. Fw 190s regarded as ‘an easy kill, particularly if they tried to dive’ Air to air? Otherwise, not sure what history books you've been reading - P-47's gave as good as they got. Willie Heilmann (190 pilot) states that the P-47's were the one thing they really feared, as they'd dive on them from high alt with 8. .50 Cals blazing away and couldn't be touched. I love the Tempest as much as the next guy - beautiful aircraft. Let's not do the "in order for this plane to be great, that other plane has to suck" thing though. Don Bryan of the 352nd did state regarding the Jug in an interview I did with him before he passed (" there wasn't a better ground attack aircraft until the A-10 came along, but wasn't worth a damn down low against 109's etc) and he's someone I'd listen to...however other pilots did just fine with it. So horses for courses... In any case, while I'm looking forward to the Jug the most, after the job they did with the Spit I won't be ignoring the Tempest. 1
GridiroN Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 On 03/01/2018 at 12:59 PM, ATAG_Flare said: Tempest. Spitty IX almost had my vote, you can't find a prettier plane than the Spitty, but I'm so excited to have that raw power of the 24 cylinder engine of the Tempest in front of me. Not to mention the quad 20mm cannons. This thing will be a beast. Probably the fastest out of the bunch apart from the 262. If I had to pick one plane to fight the 262 with it would be the Tempest. Also the 109s just won't be able to catch it. I just can't understand why people find the Spitfire attractive. The GIANT wings and skinny tail/elevators make it look like a dudeBro who skipped every leg day he ever had.
PikAss Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) Beware, people calling out the best planes before they are released! Edited April 24, 2018 by [3./J88]PikAss 1
Vig Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 All this ground attack talk has me daydreaming about F-105s..... I do love me a beast.
Blooddawn1942 Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 On 15.3.2018 at 7:01 AM, =FEW=Hauggy said: I was hesitating between the P-47 and the Tempest, I'll go for the Tempest because cannons Same here. 1
ATAG_Flare Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 13 hours ago, GridiroN said: I just can't understand why people find the Spitfire attractive. The GIANT wings and skinny tail/elevators make it look like a dudeBro who skipped every leg day he ever had. No plane is as attractive as a Spitfire. Those beautifully shaped wings, the sleek fuselage, it is just beautiful. I can't understand why people don't find it attractive! Anyways it's all opinion. Besides I like it because of how it flies too.
Gambit21 Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 It's one of the most beautiful aircraft I've ever seen in real life - amazing. Also - cannons are just fun. 1
Talisman Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 14 hours ago, Gambit21 said: Air to air? Otherwise, not sure what history books you've been reading - P-47's gave as good as they got. Willie Heilmann (190 pilot) states that the P-47's were the one thing they really feared, as they'd dive on them from high alt with 8. .50 Cals blazing away and couldn't be touched. I love the Tempest as much as the next guy - beautiful aircraft. Let's not do the "in order for this plane to be great, that other plane has to suck" thing though. Don Bryan of the 352nd did state regarding the Jug in an interview I did with him before he passed (" there wasn't a better ground attack aircraft until the A-10 came along, but wasn't worth a damn down low against 109's etc) and he's someone I'd listen to...however other pilots did just fine with it. So horses for courses... In any case, while I'm looking forward to the Jug the most, after the job they did with the Spit I won't be ignoring the Tempest. I love them all Gambit21, including the P-47, but I have a special affection for the Tempest V My virtual squad is 56RAF and in real life 56 Squadron flew the Tempest V, so we are all looking forward to BoBP very much. I had the great pleasure to meet and chat to Gunther Rall a few years back and observed his missing thumb; that was down to a P-47 pilot in hot pursuit! My post was light hearted about the Tempest V and not meant to cause a stir. They are not my words, but a quote amongst some information in another post. I like the quote so much I now have it in my signature Happy landings, 56RAF_Talisman Interesting dive performance chart below: 1 1
TWC_Ace Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 This is very hard for me as Im a great fan of the 44 western front....but If I must pick - Dora...and P47....then Me262
Pharoah Posted April 26, 2018 Posted April 26, 2018 I'm trying to understand, based on the results of the survey, why out of all the a/c coming in Bodenplatte...the aircraft most players are waiting for is the ME262?? eh?
Trooper117 Posted April 26, 2018 Posted April 26, 2018 lol... probably because there are lots of Lufties out there that believe they will be unstoppable, uncatchable, and unbeatable!
II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted April 26, 2018 Posted April 26, 2018 I understand the reason/progression for the 262 but I love this era for pushing the envelope with the prop-Jobs. I love the next era of jets as well in Korea but would prefer to keep my WWII game focused on piston tech. D9 vs 51D vs K4 vs 47D and Tempest, oh my!
ShamrockOneFive Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 On 4/23/2018 at 8:26 PM, Gambit21 said: Air to air? Otherwise, not sure what history books you've been reading - P-47's gave as good as they got. Willie Heilmann (190 pilot) states that the P-47's were the one thing they really feared, as they'd dive on them from high alt with 8. .50 Cals blazing away and couldn't be touched. I love the Tempest as much as the next guy - beautiful aircraft. Let's not do the "in order for this plane to be great, that other plane has to suck" thing though. Don Bryan of the 352nd did state regarding the Jug in an interview I did with him before he passed (" there wasn't a better ground attack aircraft until the A-10 came along, but wasn't worth a damn down low against 109's etc) and he's someone I'd listen to...however other pilots did just fine with it. So horses for courses... In any case, while I'm looking forward to the Jug the most, after the job they did with the Spit I won't be ignoring the Tempest. Whenever you read pilot histories from the USAAF, they tend not to take into account some of the other types flying around. RAF testing found the Tempest Mark V (and Mark II) to be faster in a dive than everything else they tested it against including the Thunderbolt II. The only exception was the Meteor. They didn't have a Me262 so I anticipate that perhaps that had a quicker dive speed. But yes, Tempest as far as dive speed is concerned, should be king in IL-2: Battle of Bodenplatte.
GridiroN Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 On 24/04/2018 at 11:07 AM, 56RAF_Talisman said: I love them all Gambit21, including the P-47, but I have a special affection for the Tempest V My virtual squad is 56RAF and in real life 56 Squadron flew the Tempest V, so we are all looking forward to BoBP very much. I had the great pleasure to meet and chat to Gunther Rall a few years back and observed his missing thumb; that was down to a P-47 pilot in hot pursuit! My post was light hearted about the Tempest V and not meant to cause a stir. They are not my words, but a quote amongst some information in another post. I like the quote so much I now have it in my signature Happy landings, 56RAF_Talisman Interesting dive performance chart below: Is this chart organized by acceleration or DNES?
Mitthrawnuruodo Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 On 4/26/2018 at 12:01 AM, [ASOR]Pharoah said: I'm trying to understand, based on the results of the survey, why out of all the a/c coming in Bodenplatte...the aircraft most players are waiting for is the ME262?? eh? The Me 262 is exciting because it represents new technology. As the first operational jet fighter, it is the only aircraft that is fundamentally different from anything else in Great Battles. From a game design perspective, the modelling of jet engines and transonic flight is interesting. I have no doubt that some players will find ways to use the Me 262 effectively. Needless to say, it will be hard to intercept when flown correctly. If fitted with bombs, the 262 will be quite capable as a fighter bomber.
Gambit21 Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 12 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said: Whenever you read pilot histories from the USAAF, they tend not to take into account some of the other types flying around. RAF testing found the Tempest Mark V (and Mark II) to be faster in a dive than everything else they tested it against including the Thunderbolt II. The only exception was the Meteor. They didn't have a Me262 so I anticipate that perhaps that had a quicker dive speed. But yes, Tempest as far as dive speed is concerned, should be king in IL-2: Battle of Bodenplatte. Well the point was really what 190 pilot Willie Heilmann said, (not dive speed) and he was taking into account everything - it was not just the dive by itself, but the 8x.50's that they were afraid of. As far as the Jug, dive speed aside, you have to look to the B-25 to find anything that could put that much energy downrange in such a short amount of time. Jug aside Heilmann also said that they respected the British pilots the most, as they had "bulldogged" quality that surpassed that of American pilots. If it was my life, and I had survive air to air plus put the hurt on convoys - Tempest. If I'm concerned only with max damage to soft targets, bridges, trains etc, surviveability against AA and I don't mind being a bit less capable air to air down low - Jug wins. Pick your poison.
ShamrockOneFive Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gambit21 said: Well the point was really what 190 pilot Willie Heilmann said, (not dive speed) and he was taking into account everything - it was not just the dive by itself, but the 8x.50's that they were afraid of. As far as the Jug, dive speed aside, you have to look to the B-25 to find anything that could put that much energy downrange in such a short amount of time. Jug aside Heilmann also said that they respected the British pilots the most, as they had "bulldogged" quality that surpassed that of American pilots. If it was my life, and I had survive air to air plus put the hurt on convoys - Tempest. If I'm concerned only with max damage to soft targets, bridges, trains etc, surviveability against AA and I don't mind being a bit less capable air to air down low - Jug wins. Pick your poison. Ahhh ok, I was missing that part before Tempest or Thunderbolt, both are going to be superb in their own way as attackers. Pretty excited to pilot both of them. I have a soft spot for the Thunderbolt for all of those reasons that you listed.
Poochnboo Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 This is my desktop. I suppose a picture is worth a thousand words. 1
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