Developer Diary, Part 174 - Discussion

[Freycinet]

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27621-contracted-writer-needed-filled/?do=findComment&comment=440288

 

Pretty sure Jason was asking for help long ago so where was the help then?

 

Not to mention that whole post should've been sent by PM.

 

 

 

It never fails that a great DD is released and before the day is over someone is (intentional or not) shitting on it.

 

I haven't been following the forum, but I have the impression that this is in reply to my (now deleted) post where I express my misgivings about the newspaper articles?

 

Jason a long time ago asked for a "contracted writer who would have ample time". That is definitely not the case for me, I'm very busy with my day job, so I couldn't possibly have helped out.

 

I'm sad that you take my criticism badly. I did write suggestions for all the headlines I thought weren't any good, so my criticism was definitely constructive. I also wrote - more generally - why headlines casting doubt on one's own side would be totally inappropriate for WWII newspapers.

 

There are lots of knowledgeable WWII buffs out there who could have gotten the tone and content spot-on. You weren't lucky enough to get one of them, which is too bad, but I hope you get it fixed. The rest of your product is spectacular, revolutionary and of exceptional quality. It would be sad if one amateurish aspect were to drag down the impression of the whole.

 

I'm sorry if I should have said all this in a PM instead of doing it in the forum. My bad, but I didn't think it would be taken so badly. I probably wasn't sufficiently sensitive to your feelings about what is after all "your baby" (the sim), for which I apologize.   

[Feathered_IV]

These things happen. I understand we're all after the same end goal, and I know that your constructive criticism was well meant.  At this stage, as long as the groundwork is laid for the career there is lots of room for further refinements when the mods-on mode gets introduced.  I'm just grateful that we're getting a campaign at all!  

[216th_Jordan]

I'm absolutely with Pinko.

 

I have got to say though that I don't find the newspapers bad as they are. I mean every week we will learn what happend in WWII at that time and I think thats pretty amazing although some spice might be missing here or there.

[Jade_Monkey]

@Freycinet, I dont see the big deal. I think you had valid points and the way i read it the tone was not inappropriate.

I don't like useless whining but your post offering a viable correction should be welcome by everyone.

 

I admit I am also guilty of overreacting to criticism because there used to be a lot of unfounded complaints (less so now).

[MrNoice]

I hope the will change it to be more realistic...

[CAPSLOCK_ON]

Triple A update!

 

Awesome

Amazing

Astounding

 

Loved the bits on the campaign and the iconic surprise La-5FN.

 

:D

 

Thanks!

[Danziger]

I haven't been following the forum, but I have the impression that this is in reply to my (now deleted) post where I express my misgivings about the newspaper articles?

 

Jason a long time ago asked for a "contracted writer who would have ample time". That is definitely not the case for me, I'm very busy with my day job, so I couldn't possibly have helped out.

 

I'm sad that you take my criticism badly. I did write suggestions for all the headlines I thought weren't any good, so my criticism was definitely constructive. I also wrote - more generally - why headlines casting doubt on one's own side would be totally inappropriate for WWII newspapers.

 

There are lots of knowledgeable WWII buffs out there who could have gotten the tone and content spot-on. You weren't lucky enough to get one of them, which is too bad, but I hope you get it fixed. The rest of your product is spectacular, revolutionary and of exceptional quality. It would be sad if one amateurish aspect were to drag down the impression of the whole.

 

I'm sorry if I should have said all this in a PM instead of doing it in the forum. My bad, but I didn't think it would be taken so badly. I probably wasn't sufficiently sensitive to your feelings about what is after all "your baby" (the sim), for which I apologize.

The constructive criticism is fine.

 

Just see it from their side. They just release this DD fresh off the press. Before the day is over someone is picking it apart and pointing out a laundry list of mistakes for not just Devs but everyone to read. There's nothing wrong with your suggestions just it probably would've been better received if presented in a PM or a separate thread in Suggestions section. I'm sure you didn't mean for it to be negative but it kindof came off that way.

 

Either way definitely no hard feelings from me.

[Field-Ops]

I mean if you look at it in the perspective of the war, he is right that nobody would ever see negative reporting about ones own side being published. At the same time that detracts from the game experience in a way where the newspaper is no longer tied to your accomplishments or failures. So its really a lose/lose situation. On one hand you can have propaganda that has no hand in what actually happened, or you can have honest reporting that would have the editors and publishers shot. From a gaming perspective I am totally down with honest reporting as the text will present the world in a way I can feel connected with my own actions. 

[sniperton]

For me it's not immersion-breaking, but it's also anachronistic that we can read the English edition of the Pravda and the Völkischer Beobachter. I can live with it, but there are some options to consider:

A) the news are presented as in a highly confidential bulletin available only to high-ranking party members;

B) the news are presented as in a (sort-of) neutral newspaper (British or American for the English localization, Swiss for German/French/Italian, etc, etc).

Edited October 11, 2017 by sniperton

[Cpt_Cool]

Another thing regarding the newspaper; I bet they are going to use the same stories for both German and Soviet campaigns. It is already a monumental undertaking to have a weekly newspaper for the entire scope of the career. Who wants or expects them to double the workload by putting together separate edits of each news story? That would be a nightmare.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Cpt_Cool

[LLv24_Zami]

Another thing regarding the newspaper; I bet they are going to use the same stories for both German and Soviet campaigns. It is already a monumental undertaking to have a weekly newspaper for the entire scope of the career. Who wants or expects them to double the workload by putting together separate edits of each news story. That would be a nightmare.

I think you are right. And it's perfectly fine as it is imo.

[csThor]

I am very late to the party (that happens when a "minor surgery" turns to be much much tougher on patient and doctors so today is my first better day).

 

One minor thing about the "Honour Cup" for the Luftwaffe. In the Dev Diary you said

 

Luftwaffe pilots have received different awards like trophy caps:

 

Awards_ger.jpg

Awards_NotDecor.jpg

This is not correct. The "Honour Cup" was never awarded more than once per career, usually as stopgap for pilots who still had a long way to the Knight's Cross but deserved recognition for their efforts, nontheless. It was also the only "higher award" that was presented only by Hermann Göring (and not Hitler) as it was something of a private award for him as head of the Luftwaffe. Please make note of this devs. Thanks.

[SOLIDKREATE]

I can't wait to fly the La-5Fn!!!! I'll be buying it and the G-6. Sadly I still need a stick =o(.

Oh and Gerhard Barkhorns skin will be made for the G-6 as soon as I get my dirty little hands all over her.

[Raptorattacker]

@10.N./ZG1_SPEKTRE76

You could do worse than a Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas. I got one on recommendation the other day and wow!!

I'm with you on the planes in the pipeline though!

[ShamrockOneFive]

I can't wait to fly the La-5Fn!!!! I'll be buying it and the G-6. Sadly I still need a stick =o(.

Oh and Gerhard Barkhorns skin will be made for the G-6 as soon as I get my dirty little hands all over her.

 

I have a VKB Gladiator (review here: https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/%EF%BB%BFreview-vkb-gladiator/)and its a very good stick for the money. Still waiting on VKB's throttle system to match.

[Field-Ops]

I have a VKB Gladiator (review here: https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/%EF%BB%BFreview-vkb-gladiator/)and its a very good stick for the money. Still waiting on VKB's throttle system to match.

Oh yes I recommend the gladiator as well. I got the MkII with switchable grips and just pre-ordered the modern grip. I'll get the metal KG12 grip as well. Right now I'm running it with the grip extension even though it is not recommended to do so (im not heavy on my stick movements) and its a very precise stick that way. My aerial gunnery has never been better. 

 

I'm also wanting their throttle grip as well as that ECP for more buttons on the base.

 

EDIT: Shamrock, the page you linked does not work

Edited October 12, 2017 by Field-Ops

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

I am very late to the party (that happens when a "minor surgery" turns to be much much tougher on patient and doctors so today is my first better day).

 

 

get well mate

[csThor]

Thx, Klunk. I just came back from another check (Endosonography of my gallows and liver channels which proved unobstructed). Now I hope it's just a matter of rebuilding my strength and driving down my abnormal blood values ... or something like that.

[Jason_Williams]

When the Career is done and Mods On is available you can re-write all articles to your heart's content. I asked for writers and I got a handful and about half of them flaked. Our experience with the ROF community on this task was much different unfortunately. A lot more helpful folks. So, we have 184 articles that are in 92 newspaper editions with each needing to be a couple thousand characters long. Feel free to re-write each article from the perspective of both the German and Soviet sides with all proper cultural details and in each native language with no typos or mistakes and no Nazi imagery or references so we don't get into trouble. And make all articles relevant to the date of the battle and get all facts accurate. Have fun. Let me know when you are done.

 

The volunteers that remained did a good job writing articles about the battles and other aspects of the war. Wanting everything to be period perfect and designed for your side isn't going to happen unless you feel like doing it.

 

Jason 

[Finkeren]

I think the paper are just fine. The entire idea is to give a bit of historical perspective and add a bit of flavor, not to make a faithful recreation of Soviet and German newspapers/propaganda outlets at the time.

 

I don't recall people ever complaining about the newspapers back in the old Red Baron campaign (which everyone seems to hold as a gold standard) and those headlines were cheesy as hell.

[Cpt_Cool]

This isn't a newspaper simulator haha

[216th_Jordan]

This isn't a newspaper simulator haha

No money from me then!

[Jade_Monkey]

When the Career is done and Mods On is available you can re-write all articles to your heart's content. I asked for writers and I got a handful and about half of them flaked. Our experience with the ROF community on this task was much different unfortunately. A lot more helpful folks. So, we have 184 articles that are in 92 newspaper editions with each needing to be a couple thousand characters long. Feel free to re-write each article from the perspective of both the German and Soviet sides with all proper cultural details and in each native language with no typos or mistakes and no Nazi imagery or references so we don't get into trouble. And make all articles relevant to the date of the battle and get all facts accurate. Have fun. Let me know when you are done.

 

The volunteers that remained did a good job writing articles about the battles and other aspects of the war. Wanting everything to be period perfect and designed for your side isn't going to happen unless you feel like doing it.

 

Jason

Haha exactly.

 

It's easy to ask for things, but getting them done is a whole different world.

 

I see the newspapers as a way to get historical ambiance, a bit of flavor. Not as a means to get factual news accurate to the period.

[Feathered_IV]

Mods-on mode confirmed! 

[Livai]

Why it smells like if something not works as expected to shift it to the others?

[sinned]

Newspapers are awesome.

[edited]

 

So much to edit that whole post is gone...

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin

[Finkeren]

Newspapers are awesome.

 

[Edited]

Woah woah woah! Totally uncalled for.

 

Freycinet was offering a bit of constructive criticism - that's all. I personally don't agree, I think the newspapers are fine and serve their purpose, but the criticism was perfectly ok.

 

What isn't ok is you making an over-the-top inflammatory comment like that after the issue has been put to rest.

Edited October 16, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin

[schurem]

dudes, seriously. I think the newspapers feature is awesome. Really looking forward to it. Still, its but a minor feature, compared to the mission generator which in itself is but a minor compared to the fantastic simulation of dieselpunk aircraft. O7

[Raptorattacker]

@schurem

Agreed!!

[sinned]

Why it smells like if something not works as expected to shift it to the others?

This, is what is uncalled for. I am responding to this roach.

 

Very interesting how dev's mod offering translate to "something not works shift to the others".

 

This type of toxic comments need to stop now.

 

Funny how so few were volunteers to help with newspaper, yet so many skewed criticisms. Reminds me of so many JU52 potential buyers yet so disproportional purchases.

 

This shows disgusting trend of those loud minorities.

[BuzzU]

I would have offered help with the newspaper, but then the feedback would be.........Who's the dummy who wrote the newspaper?

 

As for the language used? You have to use a language we can all read. If it's written in Russian or German we can't all read it. English is the best choice.

[sinned]

I would have offered help with the newspaper, but then the feedback would be.........Who's the dummy who wrote the newspaper?

 

As for the language used? You have to use a language we can all read. If it's written in Russian or German we can't all read it. English is the best choice.

Well well. Newspaper published in Germany and Russia but written in English? That is historically inaccurate and breaks immersion.

 

No?

[BuzzU]

Well well. Newspaper published in Germany and Russia but written in English? That is historically inaccurate and breaks immersion.

 

No?

 

It's a sim and compromises need to be made. Don't you want everybody to read the newspapers? If you want to make them in German and Russian. Make another one in English. We had newspapers too.

[sinned]

It's a sim and compromises need to be made. Don't you want everybody to read the newspapers? If you want to make them in German and Russian. Make another one in English. We had newspapers too.

Well well, you see, apparently that would be breaking immersion for some.

 

Malaya vs malaysia example was a joke.

 

Whats next? Singapore vs Singapura? Deutschland vs Germany? Mobile task force vs kitoubutai?

[Cpt_Cool]

Boooooy how bout that La-5FN huh? She sure is a beaut. Yep. Nooo doubt about it. Beaut. 

[BuzzU]

Well well, you see, apparently that would be breaking immersion for some.

 

Malaya vs malaysia example was a joke.

 

Whats next? Singapore vs Singapura? Deutschland vs Germany? Mobile task force vs kitoubutai?

 

I guess this made sense to you? It didn't for me.

 

 

So, what would make you happy? Just do the newspapers in German and Russian? Then you'd feel like you were flying a real plane in WW2. Even though you're sitting at a desk? Your the argument is weak.

Edited October 13, 2017 by BuzzU

[MrNoice]

[edited]

 

Uncalled for...

Edited October 16, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin

[Boomerang]

All good news here     

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

Well well. Newspaper published in Germany and Russia but written in English? That is historically inaccurate and breaks immersion.

 

No?

 

I mean, I don't know about you but a newspaper in German would be completely illegible to me as I don't speak a lick of the language. What's more realistic, A German pilot who can read a newspaper or a German pilot that speaks and reads English fluently but can't understand the newspaper in front of him printed in his home language?

 

Not being able to read the newspaper at all seems pretty goddamn immersion breaking to me.

 

At some point everyone needs to give their head a shake and ask themselves "Am I asking too much?" Spoiler alert: This is one of those times.

Edited October 13, 2017 by =SqSq=Sulaco

[MrNoice]

spoiler alert : translation

 

[edited]

Edited October 16, 2017 by SYN_Haashashin