Jump to content


Photo

Ju52/3m g5e W seaplane


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 xvii-Dietrich

xvii-Dietrich
  • Member
  • Posts: 494
  • Location:Norge / Suomi

Posted 28 September 2017 - 16:44

banner.jpg


We anticipate that seaplanes will one day come to IL-2:BoX.

Firstly, seaplanes already exist in Rise of Flight (RoF), which offers the Hanriot HD.2 and Brandenburg W12 floatplanes as well as the Felixstowe F.2A flying boat. The seaplane modelling in RoF is the best in the genre, beating even the best civil aviation sims such as X-Plane and Prepar3D. Now remember that IL-2:BoX is based on the RoF engine.

Secondly, seaplanes have been suggested for the up-coming Battle of Midway (BoMid). Apart from the enthusiastic community speculation, Jason Williams specifically asked for reference material for the F1M2 Pete, suggesting that it is at least being considered. Additionally, Han once indicated that they might do the PBY Catalina.



So, what about the Eastern Front?

Assuming that seaplanes will be present in the Pacific Theatre, the question is whether there is a place for them in the existing Eastern Front theatre.

Until recently, there has been no justification for a floatplane. They are simply not appropriate for the Stalingrad and Moscow maps. However, in drastic contrast, the Kuban map offers fantastic possibilities for maritime-based missions. Half of the map is water. It has long coastlines, intricate waterways and a multitude of bays and havens.
 
ju52w_kuban.jpg

 
This is perfect floatplane territory.
 
 
 


So, what is the best way to get a seaplane for Kuban?

We realise that it is easier to create a new aircraft based on an existing model, rather than develop a new one completely from scratch. This is the reason that it makes sense to populate the planeset with variants of the Bf-109 (E7,F2,F4,G2,G4... and now even a G6). Although it seems like "yet-another-fighter", there is good reason to keep the development effort manageable.

So, if we want a seaplane for the Eastern Front, the best way to do this is to find an aircraft in the existing set, and then create a seaplane variant of it. Out of all the aircraft that have been produced for IL-2:BoX so far, there is only one that had a float variant... the Junkers Ju 52.
 
 

ju52w_plan.jpg
 
Modifying the existing Ju 52 3mg4e model to create a 3mg5e/W (Wasser) variant seems to be the minimum amount of work, compared to any new-build. The only possible alternative is that there is a Po-2 being built by a third-party. This also had a float-plane option, but it is still a future project which has not been realised. The Ju 52, however, is already operational.

It may be that a Ju52/W could not be realised until after BoMid. However, it might also be that it could be done before BoMid, and be used to test the technology separately from the Pacific implementation.
 
 

A suggested plan.

Implementation of the Ju 52 3mg5e/W could be as a "collector plane". It would require the following:

  • Remove the landing gear; add the floats.
  • Re-introduce the float-plane mechanic from RoF into BoX.
  • Tweak the engine parameters from the BMW 132A3 to BMW 132T.
  • Remove the paratroops "unlock", which is not appropriate for the seaplane.
  • Remove the MAB-canisters "unlock", which is likewise not appropriate.
  • Create suitable paintschemes.

Obviously, this is still considerable work. However, it would be much, much less than any new development of a completely different aircraft type, such as the Ar-196 or He-115.
 
There are no-doubt countless optional extras which could be done. Examples of which are discussed in the Unlocks for Ju-52/3m g4e thread. However, the following is the most relevant:

  • Add a sea-rescue loadout. It need do absolutely nothing. However, it would register in server/mission logs as the load-out and thus allow statistics and missions to recognise the aircraft as Air-sea-rescue as opposed to cargo. It would also let server hosters lock the loadout, forcing Ju 52 3mg5e/W aircraft to fly a particular role from a particular base.

 

ju52w_8a+hj.jpg

Support.

The proposal to introduce the Ju 52 3mg5e/W is a speculative suggestion. No doubt the developers are inundated with good ideas for a host of other equally-interesting ways to enhance the sim. However, new aircraft are being planned based on existing ones (Bf-109 G6, He-111 H-16), and this seems a perfect opportunity to do something similar. And, incorporation of a seaplane into BoX adds a completely new dimension to this simulator. If enough pilots like the idea, the developers might consider it in the future.

So, please post your comments... for or against.

Attached Thumbnails

  • banner.jpg

Edited by xvii-Dietrich, 28 September 2017 - 20:25.

  • 13

#2 Rolling_Thunder

Rolling_Thunder
  • Member
  • Posts: 476

Posted 28 September 2017 - 17:00

i have the ju52 and never fly it. I bought it to support the developers after Jason set out the new vision for BoX. Let's wait until after Midway. The devs are busy with finishing Kuban and then I'm sure the new technologies, that will be required for Midway, carriers, floatplanes will be taking a lot of work. There are more than enough Easter front aircraft available now and coming to keep folk interested in that theater of war.  Lets move on with the devs towards the Pacific once Kuban is out of the way. For me there are way more important things to do than another collector plane that may, or may not, sell well.


  • 1

#3 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann
  • Founder
  • Posts: 2795
  • Location:Aachen, Germany

Posted 28 September 2017 - 17:04

I fly it all the time and it's a great MP asset. The game needs more "Non-Combat" Planes. 

 

http://taw.stg2.de/p...ZG26_Klaus-Mann

 

The BMW 132T differs from the A only in the Generator, so it's insignificantly heavier and Power output is the same in practical terms. 

 

The G5 on the other Hand has a far more complex Radio and Navigation Sytem, De-Icing Equipment, Carburettor and Pitot Heat and some other stuff I forget, but in many ways it is more of a Bad Weather, High Altitude, Long Range Aircraft. 


Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann, 28 September 2017 - 17:13.

  • 2

Go on, get out! Last words are for fools who haven't said enough! (Last Words of Karl Marx)

9dNzTpe.jpg
2iW21Np.jpg


#4 TG-55Panthercules

TG-55Panthercules
  • Founder
  • Posts: 1061

Posted 28 September 2017 - 17:24

Great idea - I loved flying the Felixstowe in RoF even though (or perhaps because) it was so out of the ordinary and a nice break from the usual aircraft.  Would happily purchase this as a collector plane.  If they could pair it with the idea someone posted about making it possible for downed pilots to stay alive in the water so they could be rescued, I think it would add a pretty cool dynamic for MP on the Kuban map.


  • 1
Intel Core i7-7700K @ 5.0 GHz (Corsair H75 liquid cooler); 16GB RAM (Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200MHz)
EVGA GTX 1080 TI SC2, 11 GB; ASUS ROG Maximus IX Code MB; Realtek ROG SupremeFX audio
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; Oculus Rift (CV1); Logitech Force 3D Pro; Saitek Rudder Pedals and Throttle Quadrants

#5 216th_EskimoBaby

216th_EskimoBaby
  • Founder
  • Posts: 402
  • Location:Германия /Germany /Allemagne

Posted 28 September 2017 - 23:25

I would like to see it as collectors plane.When I bought the Ju 52 land version,I thought:"Okay,I buy it to support the development,but I will not fly this coffin very often".
As soon as I tried it out I comletely changed my mind,the variety it added to the gameplay with all that mission options was really immense,really fun to fly medevac missions,paradrops and supply.The only things that spoiled the fun was that it is impossible to earn a single point with your efforts and the sometimes very negative and aggressive tone that appeared in the forum sometimes in threads about the Ju 52.
Anyhow I would buy and fly that nice bird !
  • 3
Do not disturb my circles.

#6 ShamrockOneFive

ShamrockOneFive
  • Founder
  • Posts: 3543

Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:14

Wonderful idea and I love the way that this was presented. Very well thought out!

 

What kinds of missions did this type fly. Was it mostly transport? Just curious what it could be up to. I'm fully in support of the idea of having a flyable East front floatplane and it does sound like we'll see a few more in the future too.


  • 0

#7 FFS_Cybermat47

FFS_Cybermat47
  • Founder
  • Posts: 2490
  • Location:New South Wales, Australia

Posted 29 September 2017 - 01:58

Was the Floating Maid ever used in Kuban in real life? If so, I'd love to see it.
  • 0

qYvxNoF.jpg
"Stalin's fortress on fire! Is this madness or hell? The sound of the mortars, the music of death! We're playing the devil's symphony! Our violins are guns! Conducted from hell! Oh Stalingrad!"

- From Stalingrad by Sabaton.


#8 Field-Ops

Field-Ops
  • Member
  • Posts: 367

Posted 29 September 2017 - 04:31

I think its a great idea if it takes minimal effort like building off the existing Ju52 suggests. And the plane doesnt have to be a best seller if it doesnt take as much effort that way. I'm all for them adding this plane between Kuban and Midway like they are the BF109-G6 and LA-5FN if it helps them in the long run with testing float technology and a small boost to sales. Hell they can probably have the regular Ju52 and Ju52/W in a bundle together later down the road. I'm just concerned that there is a significant overload on plane development as it is with now 4 planes in the deep parts of programming.


  • 0

#9 216th_Lucas_From_Hell

216th_Lucas_From_Hell
  • Member
  • Posts: 3702
  • Location:3-я улица Строителей, дом 25, квартира 12

Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:16

Was the Floating Maid ever used in Kuban in real life? If so, I'd love to see it.


It saw a lot of action when the Germans were evacuating the army to Crimea and all the airbase had been overrun :)
  • 0

#10 Uufflakke

Uufflakke
  • Member
  • Posts: 1088
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 29 September 2017 - 07:41

FFS_Cybermat47, on 29 Sept 2017 - 03:58, said:FFS_Cybermat47, on 29 Sept 2017 - 03:58, said:

Was the Floating Maid ever used in Kuban in real life? If so, I'd love to see it.

 

Yes. About 20 Ju-52 with floats operated in the Black Sea in 1943 (Seenotstaffel 8 under command of Hannibal Gude).

https://books.google...e kuban&f=false

 

From what I understand to pick up downed crew members in the Black Sea.

Interesting for mission making. ;)


Edited by Uufflakke, 29 September 2017 - 07:48.

  • 2

The Best Things in Life Aren't Things


#11 6./ZG26_McKvack

6./ZG26_McKvack
  • Founder
  • Posts: 824
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 29 September 2017 - 09:40

I support this but I'd rather see a G5 with wheels as well and floats as a modification
  • 1

#12 xvii-Dietrich

xvii-Dietrich
  • Member
  • Posts: 494
  • Location:Norge / Suomi

Posted 29 September 2017 - 13:39

What kinds of missions did this type fly. Was it mostly transport? Just curious what it could be up to. I'm fully in support of the idea of having a flyable East front floatplane and it does sound like we'll see a few more in the future too.

 

Others has replied with some information already. I've a few snippets to indicate they served as part of the Seenotsdienst (airsea-resuce). I also know that some of the floatplanes that served in the Mediterranean in late 1943 had earlier been in the Black Sea. If anyone has information on it, please let us know. I'll try to collate it all and update the original post accordingly.

 

 

 

I support this but I'd rather see a G5 with wheels as well and floats as a modification

 

Good idea, but wouldn't it cause major complications for mission builders?

 

At present, we can restrict certain types to certain bases. But does that also apply to load-outs? Obviously you wouldn't want to try to spawn in a seaplane base without the floats actually selected. That's the best way to end up with something like this...

 

Ju52waterNorway2.jpg

 

:o:

 

 

 

 

This is why I would suggest having it as a completely separate model. It keeps it simple for the mission builders and pilots alike.

 

For comparison, the Hanriot in RoF has two distinct versions (HD.1 and HD.2) in order to keep the options (and hence complications) to a minimum.


  • 0

#13 6./ZG26_McKvack

6./ZG26_McKvack
  • Founder
  • Posts: 824
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 29 September 2017 - 14:50

Just lock the float modification and problem solved :) 


  • 0

#14 216th_Retnek

216th_Retnek
  • Founder
  • Posts: 512
  • Location:Old Europe

Posted 29 September 2017 - 15:34

Very good source:

 

http://luftwaffe-zur-see.de/index.htm

 

If you really want to dig deep into the topic try to get the 3 volumes of:

 

"E-Stelle See - Die Geschichte der Flugerprobungsstellen Travemünde und Tarnewitz"

(E-Stellen Travemünde und Tarnewitz - Die Geschichte der Seeflugzeug-Erprobungsstelle Travemünde und der daraus hervorgegangenen E-Stelle für Flugzeugbewaffnung in Tarnewitz")

3. enhanced edition

Luftfahrtverlag Axel Zuerl

D-8031 Steinebach-Wörthsee

(Volume 1, no year, my guess: around 1980, no ISBN)

(Volume 2, no year, JSBN 3-87500-024-2, my guess ca. 1985)

(Volume 3, no year, no ISBN, but the D-82237 Steinebach-Wörthsee is a new postal code, in use after 1992)

 

Those three volumes, together around 1000 pages and several hundred photos, are a kind of legacy by former members and / or veterans of that Luftwaffe-test-site. It covers the history of the German sea-planes incl. people, projects and equipment from 1920-1945. If you're into that topic, it's a treasure!


Edited by 216th_Retnek, 29 September 2017 - 16:55.

  • 1

"Those admiring my 275 shoot-downs know nothing about war. They do not know what it implies for a whole live to kill in young years just not to be killed. They do not know the shame and the sorrow. War is not the continuation of politics by other means. It is an infamy. It is the total bankruptcy of political operations. With my generation fading away in some capitals of the world this insight seems to fade away, too." (Günther Rall)


#15 216th_Peterla

216th_Peterla
  • Founder
  • Posts: 1084
  • Location:Abu Dhabi

Posted 29 September 2017 - 15:44

I'll buy it if doesn't deterr other development projects.
  • 0

#16 InProgress

InProgress
  • Member
  • Posts: 410

Posted 29 September 2017 - 22:31

https://steamuserima...4D1F39C43ACB72/

Clod have them too :P and i am always for something different than another fighter :)
  • 0

NETSUSK.pngVGuafbO.png

Battle group south ☑ center ☑ north


#17 Feathered_IV

Feathered_IV
  • Founder
  • Posts: 4746
  • Location:Girt by Sea

Posted 30 September 2017 - 02:13

I'd be rather partial to the Arado 196 too if we're wishing.
  • 2
"Nineteen years of age, eight years public education, three years military service. Intelligent, normally observant and answered all questions freely. He was arrogant and proud to be a pilot. Fellow prisoners in hospital consider him mentally unstable..."

#18 TG-55Panthercules

TG-55Panthercules
  • Founder
  • Posts: 1061

Posted 30 September 2017 - 03:22

I'd be rather partial to the Arado 196 too if we're wishing.

 

That would be my preferred Axis floatplane as well - was one of my favorite builds from my old Airfix days.


  • 2
Intel Core i7-7700K @ 5.0 GHz (Corsair H75 liquid cooler); 16GB RAM (Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3200MHz)
EVGA GTX 1080 TI SC2, 11 GB; ASUS ROG Maximus IX Code MB; Realtek ROG SupremeFX audio
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit; Oculus Rift (CV1); Logitech Force 3D Pro; Saitek Rudder Pedals and Throttle Quadrants

#19 BOO

BOO
  • Member
  • Posts: 464

Posted 30 September 2017 - 12:10

https://steamuserima...4D1F39C43ACB72/

Clod have them too :P and i am always for something different than another fighter :)

 

That's a He115 and it only AI sadly. Same with the Sunderland and Walrus


  • 0

#20 DD_Arthur

DD_Arthur
  • Founder
  • Posts: 2245
  • Location:South West England

Posted 30 September 2017 - 20:28

I'll buy it if doesn't deterr other development projects.

 

This.


  • 0

#21 Blitzen

Blitzen
  • Founder
  • Posts: 1046
  • Location:Seattle,Washington

Posted 30 September 2017 - 23:03

A very reasonable idea- I'd buy it!
  • 0

#22 Royal_Flight

Royal_Flight
  • Member
  • Posts: 376
  • Location:GMT

Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:11

That would be my preferred Axis floatplane as well - was one of my favorite builds from my old Airfix days.


Same here... to both the Ar-196 in game, and to having made the Airfix kit.
  • 0

#23 CanadaOne

CanadaOne
  • Member
  • Posts: 1018
  • Location:Canada

Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:53

I'd buy a seaplane. Kuban is a nice map for some puddle jumping. :)


  • 0

bos_gold_en_zpstc2bz64s.pngbom_gold_en_zpsrkhiedcv.png

Snowflakus Eradicatus


#24 6./ZG26_McKvack

6./ZG26_McKvack
  • Founder
  • Posts: 824
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 02 October 2017 - 13:42

I'd really like to see a He-115 or a Bv 222. Especially if we get torpedos in the future :)

 

Anyone know if there were some He-115s in Kuban?


Edited by 6./ZG26_McKvack, 02 October 2017 - 13:43.

  • 0

#25 56RAF_Roblex

56RAF_Roblex
  • Member
  • Posts: 785
  • Location:Cornwall, UK

Posted 02 October 2017 - 14:12

Yes we need more fat & juicy targets:-)

 

fatjui10.jpg


  • 0

Diary Of A HopelessPilot Officer - http://roblex56raf.livejournal.com/    

56thmi11.jpg56th GvIAP 'Firebirds' 

 BoM, BoS, BoK, La-5, La-5FN, P-40, Spitfire, Yak-1B, HS-129


#26 xvii-Dietrich

xvii-Dietrich
  • Member
  • Posts: 494
  • Location:Norge / Suomi

Posted 02 October 2017 - 14:45

Yes we need more fat & juicy targets:-)

 

fatjui10.jpg

 

 

Nice pic. Now, we just need to see those in BoX!

 

As for "fat & juicy targets", may I remind you that the Ju 52 is ranked equal-third in the recently published K/D statistics:P


  • 0

#27 xvii-Dietrich

xvii-Dietrich
  • Member
  • Posts: 494
  • Location:Norge / Suomi

Posted 14 October 2017 - 23:35

I've been doing some research, trying to follow-up on this lead:
 

Yes. About 20 Ju-52 with floats operated in the Black Sea in 1943 (Seenotstaffel 8 under command of Hannibal Gude).
https://books.google...e kuban&f=false

From what I understand to pick up downed crew members in the Black Sea.
Interesting for mission making. ;)


For some reason, I don't get to see the quoted sections of the book (possibly a region block by google-books?), but I have been trying to find out more about Seenotstaffel 8.

 

 

Meanwhile, I found this lead...
 

В начале 1943 г. к обычным задачам, стоявшим перед гидроавиацией Люфтваффе на Черном море, добавилась ещё одна - снабжение частей 17-й немецкой армии блокированной на Таманском полуострове. Специально для транспортных перевозок на Кубанский плацдарм, было сформировано два морских транспортный отряда. Один, под командованием майора Ганнибала Гуде, был оснащен поплавковым вариантом "юнкерса-52". Второй (командир - капитан Ханс Треттер) был укомплектован одиннадцатью "дорнье-24", собранными из различных частей, в том числе и из действовавшего на Средиземном море 6-го спасательного отряда. Несколько машин из этих подразделений было потеряно по техническим причинам.

Всего за 1943 год по разным причинам на Черном море немцы лишились одного Do-24 (из состава транспортного отряда), пяти "блом унд фоссов", одного Ar-196, а также нескольких Ju-52 в варианте гидросамолета.

 
Source: http://www.airwar.ru...idro/gidro.html

Rough translation:

 

At the beginning of 1943, another thing was added to the routine tasks facing the Luftwaffe maritime squadrons in the Black Sea: the supply of parts of the 17th German Army besieged on the Taman Peninsula. Especially for transportation to the Kuban bridgehead, two maritime transport detachments were formed. One, under the command of Major Hannibal Gude, was equipped with a float version of the Junkers Ju 52. The second (commander - Captain Hans Tretter) was equipped with eleven Dornier Do 24, assembled from various units, including the 6th Seenotgruppe operating on the Mediterranean Sea. Several machines from these units were lost because of technical reasons.

In 1943, for a variety of reasons, the Germans lost one Do-24 (from the transport detachment), five Blohm u Voss, one Ar-196, and several Ju-52s in the seaplane variant for the Black Sea.

 

 

 

A few other things to go on.

 

There were three dedicated Ju 52 floatplane transport squadrons: Seetransportstaffel 1, 2 and 3. Of these, it seems that Seetransportstaffel 1 operated in the Mediterranean, with Seetransportstaffel 2 and Seetransportstaffel 3 based in the north.

 

I still haven't purchased "E-Stelle See - Die Geschichte der Flugerprobungsstellen Travemünde und Tarnewitz", as recommended by Retnek, but I am definitely considering it. Does anyone have a copy? If so, is there any information regarding the use of Ju 52/See aircraft?
 

The other thing I'm still working through is http://luftwaffe-zur...rlustlisten.htm . Often, checking the losses can indicate genuine action in an area (rather than some nominal listing for the home seeplane base). But, there are a lot of records to go through on this one.

 

 

 

As always, if anyone has any interesting information, photos or drawings of the Ju 52 floatplane, please post them!!!

 


  • 0

#28 InProgress

InProgress
  • Member
  • Posts: 410

Posted 17 October 2017 - 08:46

youtube.com/watch?v=Vnhze7UiGbU

 

That's interesting one :biggrin:

 

I hope in time we will get quite few of them, Arado, HE and JU. Having them in pacific expansion is aslo tempting.

But for now i think the best is Ju52 since it's already there.


Edited by InProgress, 17 October 2017 - 08:50.

  • 2

NETSUSK.pngVGuafbO.png

Battle group south ☑ center ☑ north


#29 HippyDruid

HippyDruid
  • Founder
  • Posts: 537

Posted 17 October 2017 - 09:48

Great write up Deitrich!

Branden and Felix were two of my favorites in RoF and I would love to see that float-plane-water-tech in BoX.

 

Also, that Arado vid is pretty cool, thanks for sharing man.


  • 0

"Poppy Park" 

Blokes in Zee Brandenburg a Rise of Flight Parody.


#30 InProgress

InProgress
  • Member
  • Posts: 410

Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:50

Hah :biggrin: I had a dream last night, not sure if BoX or CloD but it was england and you could fly seaplanes to rescue pilots, you landed on water near them and they swim to you and climb inside, then you fly back to base. Guess i am playing too much of IL2  :P


  • 0

NETSUSK.pngVGuafbO.png

Battle group south ☑ center ☑ north


#31 xvii-Dietrich

xvii-Dietrich
  • Member
  • Posts: 494
  • Location:Norge / Suomi

Posted 20 October 2017 - 22:33

I've been doing some more research on the Ju 52/3m W and its use at Kuban. I've now found a second source confirming the information that Uufflakke posted
 
 
Kuban evacuation :  approx. 20-25 Ju 52/3m W

 

Following the fall of Stalingrad some twenty Ju 52s used in the abortive resupply operation were immediately fitted with floats and sent to the Black Sea to be grouped in a new Lufttransportstaffel under Maj Hannibal Gude- Kapitän of 8. Seenotstaffel. Operating in and out of the Kuban bridgehead only one loss was recorded, on 23 March 1943.

Ref: http://falkeeins.blo...kers-ju-52.html

 I tried to trace down this loss. I couldn't find it.
 
 
However, I did find another loss:
 
08.05.43
Ju 52/3 See
2. / Kü.Fl.Gr. 406
Bruch durch Aussenlandung bei Seegang 5-6 in der Strasse von Kertsch.
† (FF) Ofw. Kurt Buley,
(Bf) Uffz. Karl Lünsteden > MIA,
(Bm) Ob.Gefr. Hellmuth Günther > MIA
 
Ref: http://luftwaffe-zur...en/Jahr1943.htm
 
However, I'm not convinced this is correct. 2. / Kü.Fl.Gr. 406 was based in Norway at the time. And although the Ju 52/3m W was used extensively in Norway, it was with Seenotstaffeln and Seetransportgruppen.
 
 
 
Following another lead, I searched for Maj Hannibal Gude- Kapitän of 8. Seenotstaffel, and found this:
 

Hptm Hannibal Gude was born in Breslau in 1913 and in 1932 volunteered for the German Navy. When the Nazis came to power he trained as a seaplane pilot. At the start of the war he served in north Germany before taking up a desk position at the German Air Ministry (RLM) for one year. Promoted to the rank of Hptm in June 1942 he was posted to Romania to take up a front command as Kapitän of 8. Seenot operating over the Black Sea;

I was surprised at the lack of personnel in this unit which seemed to function in a very adhoc fashion and only had nine aircraft on strength - we were so lacking in airmen that I often flew most sorties, although only at the controls of the He 59 – having spent a year at the RLM I had received no training on the much more modern Do 24 and thus flew on this type only as observer.

On 01 January 1943 Gude was promoted to Maj. In February 1943 he was appointed Staka 2. Seetransportstaffel Sewastopol (to 03.43).The two Seetransportstaffeln were adhoc transport units set up during February 1943 to fly resupply sorties to the encircled 17. Armee in the Kuban. The aircraft often returned to Sevastopol fully loaded with wounded soldiers. Encounters with Soviet fighters or MBR seaplanes were fortunately rare and no losses in combat were recorded.

Ref: http://falkeeins.blo...oba-neulen.html


The 2. Seetransportstaffel were solely using Ju 52/3m W aircraft.
Ref: http://www.ww2.dk/oo.../bseetrsp2.html

 

 

I did a search for 2. Seetransportstaffel examples, and I found this one. However, it is a photograph from Norway in 1944, and the type is a g8e, not g5e. To avoid this post being just dry history, i'll include it here anyway.

 

Ju52W_Norwegen.png

 

 

 

 

[ EDIT ] Updated it to remove the claim that the Ju 52/3m W aicraft were part of 8.Seenotstaffel. Comparing these notes, with some material posted in a subsequent post by Uufflakke, it is clear that the 20-25 aircraft were not in the Seenotstaffel per se, but were in a separate unit.   / xvii-Dietrich

 


Edited by xvii-Dietrich, 21 October 2017 - 19:27.

  • 2

#32 Riderocket

Riderocket
  • Founder
  • Posts: 350
  • Location:New Zealand

Posted 21 October 2017 - 07:17

Yes! One day it will come. I know it
  • 0

RV8MFdH.png

System Specs

Spoiler

#33 Uufflakke

Uufflakke
  • Member
  • Posts: 1088
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 21 October 2017 - 09:51


For some reason, I don't get to see the quoted sections of the book (possibly a region block by google-books?), but I have been trying to find out more about Seenotstaffel 8.

 

Odd you don't have acces to the Google Books link I sent you. Region block might be the cause indeed.

 

I made some screenshots of the relevant pages. Unfortunately page 69 is missing in the example.

 

 

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg


  • 1

The Best Things in Life Aren't Things


#34 InProgress

InProgress
  • Member
  • Posts: 410

Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:27

Well it's not about ju52 but i am reading this:

 

holenderskie-indie-wschodnie-1941-1942-b

 

It's written by polish and not translated to english so sorry for non english cover :)

In english - Dutch East Indies 1941-1942, so far i love this books, so much details..

 

It has a lot about sea planes, i dont know much about pacific and late war but seaplanes were often used there. They even dropped patartoopers at Menado. During this battle they used seaplane to land on water and brought reinforcements. ABDA used catalinas to bomb japanese ships. And Dutch used dornier do 24. Sea planes were really big deal during this time and location.

 

Really hope devs will go in this direction and every nation will get 1 or 2 sea planes one day.


  • 1

NETSUSK.pngVGuafbO.png

Battle group south ☑ center ☑ north


#35 Monostripezebra

Monostripezebra
  • Member
  • Posts: 1020

Posted 21 October 2017 - 14:27

YES PLEASE!


  • 0

#36 Heliopause

Heliopause
  • Member
  • Posts: 229
  • Location:Holland/theNetherlands/LowCountries

Posted 21 October 2017 - 17:56

I have this book. Recomment it.

 

Dutch_naval_air_force.jpg


  • 1

Lakirovany Garantirovanny Grob

--------------------------------------------------------------

"I will always remember flying from Karachi to Calcutta with André de la Porte and on arrival overhead Dum Dum he feathered one engine and then proceeded to beat up the airfield" (Flt Lt Thirlwell).


#37 InProgress

InProgress
  • Member
  • Posts: 410

Posted 21 October 2017 - 18:07

BV138-Seaplane-Tender-31f.jpg

This would be nice :3
  • 0

NETSUSK.pngVGuafbO.png

Battle group south ☑ center ☑ north


#38 xvii-Dietrich

xvii-Dietrich
  • Member
  • Posts: 494
  • Location:Norge / Suomi

Posted 17 November 2017 - 16:27

Well, as per the announcement today, the move the Pacific has been postponed for the time being.

With it, will be the E13A, F1M, PBY, OSU and all the other Pacific seaplanes are now on hold.

 

 

Thus, the Ju 52/3m W conversion seems to be the only hope for a seaplane in IL2:BoX any time soon.

 

 

As the basic aircraft model and cockpit of the Ju 52 are already done, it would be less of a transition to remove the wheels and add the floats. At least compared to a complete new aircraft such as a PBY. The Ju 52 52/3m W was used for the Kuban evacuation, so it would also have a natural map in which to fly.

 

 

I hope the Devs will indicate if they would consider it in future.


  • 0

#39 xvii-Dietrich

xvii-Dietrich
  • Member
  • Posts: 494
  • Location:Norge / Suomi

Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:53

A couple of weeks have washed past and we've all had time to take stock of the Nov'2017 announcement. Three new titles, Bodenplatte, Flying Circus and Tank Crew... nice. However, the Pacific Theatre has been given an extension in order to make it match the high expectations we have of the team. Jason Williams remains committed to the Pacific Theatre, but it will take time.

So, how far off is the Pacific?

Well, Jason said in the Q&A session that Bodenplatte will not be finished until probably early fall of 2019 (REF). We also know that the development cycle is typically 12-16 months, so that means that the Pacific is looking like 2020, all going well.

We also know that there has been no change in the planeset (at least for the Japanese), in the last six months the planeset has remained A6M/21-Zeke, B5N2-Kate, D3A1-Val and F1M2-Pete
(REF:May'2017, REF:Nov'2017).

Seaplanes are still on the agenda.

But the reason that the Pacific has been delayed is because of the immense challenges that face the team. In the Q&A, Jason listed the reasons as:

  • Difficulty in making the ships
  • Improving the ship damage model
  • Aircraft carrier physics modelling
  • Japanese aircraft (particularly cockpits and systems)
  • Translations of Japanese material

What has never been mentioned is seaplanes. As it suits my agenda - I am being honest! - I will make the bold assumption that the exemplary Rise of Flight seaplane mechanism gives the development team confidence to roll it out into the Digital Warfare Engine. This is why it is never mentioned as a challenge.

It is not seaplanes holding back the Pacific.

Another thing that Jason confirmed in the Q&A, is that if you build one aircraft, then this helps speed up future work (REF). The classic example is the roll-out of many significant models of the Bf-109. And we have a Ju 52 g3e Landtransport.

 

 

 

Ju 52/3m g5e W

ju52w_etc.jpg


Thus, I will raise the issue of the Ju 52/3m g5e W floatplane again. If anything, I think the extra wait to the Pacific drastically strengthens the case for a seaplane on the Eastern Front. It has the advantages of:

  • Help us stave off the long wait for a Pacific seaplane
  • Allow the Devs to test the technology on a "collector plane", rather than an entire "Battle-of-..." title
  • Radically diversifying the planeset roles
  • Adds a new element to mission building
  • Allows use of the water on the Kuban map
  • Greatly re-uses an existing aircraft model
  • Giving attention to Kuban (and more generally the Eastern Front).

 

 

So... what do you think?

 

Is it worth pushing for now?

Or should the seaplane enthusiasts give up and wait 2-3-years for the F1M2 (or similar) in the Pacific?


  • 1

#40 216th_Retnek

216th_Retnek
  • Founder
  • Posts: 512
  • Location:Old Europe

Posted 01 December 2017 - 12:00

I'd like to add some aspects maybe helpful for a promising business plan:

 

- Black Sea and Sea of Asov are well suited test-beds to simulate most aspects of marine conditions. So Battle of Midway could start with an already shining part "float plane operations".

 

- Since seaplane-sorties are away from the main focus of IL2-BoK it might be possible to present early versions without  a risk for the reputation.

 

- The large German Ju-52 with twin floats (as suggested above) would be one element.

 

- Second element would be the small Soviet Po-2. Hopefully the cooperation with an external studio comes to a success soon! The Po-2 is the small plane in the test. And a Soviet one, balancing the game-play and broadening the variety of test scenarios. Next to the twin-floater xvii-Dietrich presented here:

 

https://forum.il2stu...423-flying-po-2

 

there's a mono-float version, too, allowing to test this floats-concept, too:

 

u-2p.jpg

 

- Next to the challenge to operate sea-planes properly there should be established some suitable types of mission. Ship recon or convoy escort duties are rewarding, but might attract just a few enthusiasts, I fear.

 

- Some more pilots might like to fly transport sorties - sadly there are not enough options in the mission builder to reward the transport pilots properly.

 

- The most attractive operation and soon very popular would be SAR - search and rescue. Jump into a float plane to rescue a poor pilot drifting somewhere out there - irresistible! Be it your own combat pilot in single player mode or a mates pilot in multi-player. Depending on seawater-temperature or the MP-sessions end you just have xx min to bring that boy back home.

 

Btw: given the Po-2 and a Fi-156 Storch this mission type would be most popular on land, too. I bet! But the Ju-52 is good for this kind operation, too. Just add some proper SAR-options to the mission builder and SAR-sorties will become most popular immediately.


Edited by 216th_Retnek, 01 December 2017 - 12:12.

  • 0

"Those admiring my 275 shoot-downs know nothing about war. They do not know what it implies for a whole live to kill in young years just not to be killed. They do not know the shame and the sorrow. War is not the continuation of politics by other means. It is an infamy. It is the total bankruptcy of political operations. With my generation fading away in some capitals of the world this insight seems to fade away, too." (Günther Rall)





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users