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MrFies

BF-109 G6 as Collector Plane ?

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As I remember others have been chastised for using a foreign language in what is supposed to be an English language forum. Could be wrong, but yeah I do find it silly to use here. As to using Google, I can cross reference books and magazines I own and figure it out.

 

The dude is clearly posting technical information that relates to the thread from a potential direct source - he's not trying to hold a conversation with you in German, Darth Edgyious.

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The dude is clearly posting technical information that relates to the thread from a potential direct source - he's not trying to hold a conversation with you in German, Darth Edgyious.

 

Edited, translated into English. Pls shake hands to each other.

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The dude is clearly posting technical information that relates to the thread from a potential direct source - he's not trying to hold a conversation with you in German, Darth Edgyious.

:) Whew!!!! I feel better. Hope you do too.

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It "made" you double-check? I always though that feature was hard-coded ... :P

 

Hahaha... true, true... you know me well. :happy:

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No problem.  :salute:

 

It made me double check... and that's a good thing!

 

 

 

 

So, Devs... can we have a Myrsky now? ;)

I confused it with Pyörremyrsky. Nevertheless, Myrsky didn't see that much use that I would want to see it modelled.

 

Give me Fokker D.XXI, G.50, P-36, Brewster B-239, and Bf 109 G-6, and I can be content once the Karelia map is finished :)

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I always like flying the B239 in the original game.

 

In fact I shot down the very first Me 262 I saw after the jet was released while flying the Brewster.

 

MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

 

:ph34r:

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I always like flying the B239 in the original game.

 

In fact I shot down the very first Me 262 I saw after the jet was released while flying the Brewster.

 

MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

 

:ph34r:

 

Had a lot of fun with the B.239 myself. I suspect the F2A may show up in Midway but it won't be nearly as good :)

 

You shot down a Me262 with one? That's impressive!

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I have no Problem dicerning any of that German Technobabble. And the Russian Stuff isn't that hard to understand either if you go at it Logically. 
 

that is not logic, it is incredible patience and symptoms of not having a life :P 

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that is not logic, it is incredible patience and symptoms of not having a life :P

 

Well, and the benefits of being German and having learnt Russian in School. 

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I would love to have G6. It would be a must-buy for MP if one wants to be competitive and would be a challenge to the current must-buy yak1b.

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I would love to have G6. It would be a must-buy for MP if one wants to be competitive and would be a challenge to the current must-buy yak1b.

you know nothing about the G-6 do you? judging by flight perfomance alone it's inferior to the F-4, G-2 and G-4 we have in game. So if you can't compete with the Yaks in those, you won't have better luck in the G-6

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From what I've read and been told over the years... in many ways the Bf109G-6 is a downgrade. Especially an early model G-6. The early installation of the MG131s required draggy additional bulges on the nose. It also has the same bumps and bulges tha the G-4 has plus the fixed tailwheel. So this is a heavier, draggier, and in some ways lower performing aircraft than the earlier option... just with increased punch. I've read that later versions never quite fixed the problem of added weight despite raw increases in climb and speed through to the K-4 version.

 

The firepower upgrade would be nice and I'd love to see the G-6 as an option. It's fun, its interesting, a lot of players would fly it, but it probably isn't going to do much to make the Luftwaffe better than it already is. So I don't see this as balance that is at stake here. Just another aircraft addition.

 

Red team is in a pretty good place with Battle of Kuban. I'm curious if the answer to the G-6 would be the La-5F, a worthy addition, or something else like the MBR-2 or the IL-4 or something from earlier in the war.

 

I've said it before that another totally opposite direction might be to fill out the Moscow and Stalingrad sets (Kuban is quite well served with Moscow and Stalingrad sets supplementing) with something like the IAR80/81 and the SB-2, Su-2 or I-153.

 

Also speaking of the K-4... I can't wait to one day have a Bf109K-4 in the IL-2: BoX series. I love seeing how a series of aircraft culminates in the "ultimate" version. Flying a K-4 in IL-2: 1946 was a totally different experience than the earlier Bf109s. It's like a different plane at that point. So fascinating!

 

 

You  know very well what people want with the G6...    you all know but pretend to not know.. the Mk108....

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As to the P-47, and as an American lusting for my home country's AC, please no! The Thunderbolt and all of her stablemates are far more suited to other theaters of the conflict. In fact, almost EVERY other theater. There are plenty of indigenous AC more suited and still to be included on the Eastern Front.

 

As to acquiring extra copies, clearly that was directed to those who can afford to do so. No one expects this community to give up a meal or rent to help the Devs beyond their means.

 

 

Well I agree that there are  tons of places where the p47 would be better placed. My point is, for the financial health of the game  a few tweaks might be needed. The Fw190 at the initial release ALREADY was one of those .. the MC202 also.. the P40 E instead of the B another one.

 

 

Any other ideas would be welcome, but  unfortunately bringing just a late La5 or a Yak 9 will NOT   attract  players that a are  not interested on what already is in the game.

 

Did the british ever sent the soviets the Spit with cliped wings?

So I was just thinking how the gap can be  slightly closed  and bring more money for the game.   Yet I will have still to wait ages to fly the Only  American plane I want to fly.. the P38 :P

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you know nothing about the G-6 do you? judging by flight perfomance alone it's inferior to the F-4, G-2 and G-4 we have in game. So if you can't compete with the Yaks in those, you won't have better luck in the G-6

Most people  seem to assume G6 means the G6 WITH MW-50, but I do not think  these are in the time frame of Kuban

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Calm down. MK108 is far beyound BoK timescope. If we will ever have Eastern Front 1944 theater, so we might have Bf109G-6 with MK108. But not in next several years, I think.

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you know nothing about the G-6 do you? judging by flight perfomance alone it's inferior to the F-4, G-2 and G-4 we have in game. So if you can't compete with the Yaks in those, you won't have better luck in the G-6

Ansgar is right, the G-6 we will get is basically a Disimprovement in all Aspects except Firepower. 

 

The G-6 in the 109 realm is best compared to the Yak-7b in the Yak Single Engine Fighter Realm. It's gonna be more of a threat to Il-2s and Peshkas than enemy fighters. 

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Ansgar is right, the G-6 we will get is basically a Disimprovement in all Aspects except Firepower.

 

Yes - he's abrasive as ever but correct.

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Yes - he's abrasive as ever but correct.

Oh well, there is a Job for every Grit there is. Ansgar may be a P40 dry, but even that can have it's uses. And it would be awfully boring if the Community consisted of mental P3000 wets. 

 

The best Position is just rough enough dry to be abrasive and wet soft enough to be polishing. 

 

But the G-6 we would get would

  • not have a 3cm MK
  • not have 3cm Gondolas
  • not have DB605AM (MW50 or MW30)
  • not have DB605AS
  • not have DB605ASM (MW50 or MW30)
  • not have Goering Mischung 1
  • not have smoother Cowling
  • not have extended Tailwheel
  • not have Erla Haube
  • not have Werfer Granate 21 (unless Devs Re-Think their Wfr.Gr line, then it would be the only Rocket armed 109)

In fact, it could just be made a modification to the G-4 without any changes except the Guns. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann
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I think a G-6 Collector plane would at least have the 30mm even if it isn't correct for 1943 timeframe... it would surprise me if it didn't. Not only is a selling point for the plane but also it gives some playability for future scenarios, like they did with having the G-4 with 1.42 ata, the MiG-3 with ShVAKs, the Pe-2 with turret, the Ju-87D with 37mm, the MC 202 and P-40E (planes that appeared after Battle of Moscow ended), Fw 190 A-3 in Stalingrad, La-5 with F engine.

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Oh well, there is a Job for every Grit there is. Ansgar may be a P40 dry, but even that can have it's uses. And it would be awfully boring if the Community consisted of mental P3000 wets. 

 

The best Position is just rough enough dry to be abrasive and wet soft enough to be polishing. 

 

But the G-6 we would get would

  • not have a 3cm MK
  • not have 3cm Gondolas
  • not have DB605AM (MW50 or MW30)
  • not have DB605AS
  • not have DB605ASM (MW50 or MW30)
  • not have Goering Mischung 1
  • not have smoother Cowling
  • not have extended Tailwheel
  • not have Erla Haube
  • not have Werfer Granate 21 (unless Devs Re-Think their Wfr.Gr line, then it would be the only Rocket armed 109)

In fact, it could just be made a modification to the G-4 without any changes except the Guns. 

 

Lets give a word to Herr Dr. J.Prien:

post-1464-0-79173400-1500938093_thumb.jpgpost-1464-0-31035800-1500938095_thumb.jpg

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The problem with the G-6 is that historical G-6 variants for Kuban don't add anything new, and new variants don't fit the timeframe portrayed. With all other in game aircraft, even if they (or their modifications) go beyond the theatre represented, they fit in well in the overall 1941-1943 scenario. The 37mm guns for the Stuka showed up in Spring 1943, the P-40E flew in the East early in 1942 and in the Black Sea it served into 1943, the MiG-3 used ShVAK armament in 1942/3 and so on.

 

A G-6 with the Mk108 is a whole year ahead of anything else so it breaks the model, but the regular G-6 means building a whole new plane for a new set of machine guns and worse handling but lacking any of the modifications that made it special and long-lasting. Leave it for Eastern Front late 1943/1944 or a Western front iteration, it's a cool plane but not what's needed nor what fits.

Edited by 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell
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I'd be more excited for the twin 13mm to replace the peashooters than for the single 30mm.

 

Could we get those as a G4 mod?

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

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yeah, I was hoping to at least finally see an mk108 before the pacific battles. Besides there are more than enough erich hartmanns in-game

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The problem with the G-6 is that historical G-6 variants for Kuban don't add anything new, and new variants don't fit the timeframe portrayed. With all other in game aircraft, even if they (or their modifications) go beyond the theatre represented, they fit in well in the overall 1941-1943 scenario. The 37mm guns for the Stuka showed up in Spring 1943, the P-40E flew in the East early in 1942 and in the Black Sea it served into 1943, the MiG-3 used ShVAK armament in 1942/3 and so on.

 

A G-6 with the Mk108 is a whole year ahead of anything else so it breaks the model, but the regular G-6 means building a whole new plane for a new set of machine guns and worse handling but lacking any of the modifications that made it special and long-lasting. Leave it for Eastern Front late 1943/1944 or a Western front iteration, it's a cool plane but not what's needed nor what fits.

 

This

Thankfully lately we haven't seen that person who came on here and whined/demanded that the Devs provide it since it's needed for the "Luftwaffe style of play" whatever that is.

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The problem with the G-6 is that historical G-6 variants for Kuban don't add anything new

 

-snip-

 

While this is a fair point, it's a bit ironic when the general sentiment and reaction seem to be:

> The current LW aircraft mop the foor with VVS aircraft and we deserve an La-5F or a later model Yak.

> Why would you LW guys ask for a G-6? It's slow, cumbersome, etc.

 

Quite frankly, I'll purchase ANY Collector's Planes they choose to release even if there aren't substantial differences... Supporting a niche, death of the hobby, blah blah, etc.

 

Same reason I own everything they offered for ROF too.

Edited by Space_Ghost

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The A-82F was fitted in lots of units in Kuban though,and the Yak-1b was a mainstay from January 1943 onwards across the front. They add a different aspect of gameplay since they are landmarks of technological and doctrinal progress in the Soviet Air Forces, as was the year of 1943. The G-4 was the main Kuban variant so it was included though it also adds little in terms of gameplay.

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The G-4 was the main Kuban variant so it was included though it also adds little in terms of gameplay.

 

It's a bit more complicated than that. G-2s and G-4s were in use simultaneously in most Kuban-region Bf 109 units until around June 1943, when the G-6 started to show up. The G-2s were the first to go, and then eventually the G-4s were phased out.

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I personally like that we have multiple versions for that added realism/immersion, even if differences were slight.

This way we can represent a Jasta transitioning from one iteration to the next in the career or scripted campaigns.

 

I think we're good though with the Emil through the G4 in that regard.

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Honestly guys, who sees anybody using the G4 when any other variant is available? Because having flown it, I like the G2 better, even without the emergency power; and I haven't seen anybody excited to trade up to this thing.

 

I think rather than asking for a G6, we should look at some different G4 mods to (very roughly I admit) represent a transition to the G6 which was occurring. (Enlarged tail unit?, 13mm guns maybe with the clean engine cowl that came with GM1 boost?, DB605AS?)

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

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Yes - he's abrasive as ever but correct.

the word you're looking for is honest. i hate this culture of sugar coating everything. why do you think there are so many overweight people these days.

 

 

Honestly guys, who sees anybody using the G4 when any other variant is available? Because having flown it, I like the G2 better, even without the emergency power; and I haven't seen anybody excited to trade up to this thing.

 

I think rather than asking for a G6, we should look at some different G4 mods to (very roughly I admit) represent a transition to the G6 which was occurring. (Enlarged tail unit?, 13mm guns maybe with the clean engine cowl that came with GM1 boost?, DB605AS?)

they need to finance the development of such things (completely regarding that GM-1 and AS engine are out of frame) and that would mean they'd have to sell it as a modification pack for the G-4 which Jason already said is something he doesn't want to do. He doesn't like mod packs. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Asgar

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Honestly guys, who sees anybody using the G4 when any other variant is available? Because having flown it, I like the G2 better, even without the emergency power; and I haven't seen anybody excited to trade up to this thing.

 

I think rather than asking for a G6, we should look at some different G4 mods to (very roughly I admit) represent a transition to the G6 which was occurring. (Enlarged tail unit?, 13mm guns maybe with the clean engine cowl that came with GM1 boost?, DB605AS?)

Here is exactly the problem. People leaving aircraft on the shelf because they aren't the best available. I regularly fly the G-4 because it is the least of the G's we have so far. I flew the 190 A3 for fifteen months when the only thing it was best at was the speed and punch. Challenge yourselves. Learn the idiosyncrasies of the airframes. This is the best sim out there for imbuing each airframe with its own unique personality. There is joy in that as well.

 

I'm all for a G6 and -5FN if there is time to build them. If not, we have an excellent mix of Axis and allied AC in hand with some interesting additions on the horizon.

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the word you're looking for is honest. i hate this culture of sugar coating everything. why do you think there are so many overweight people these days.

 

No...I said what I meant.

There are plenty of honest people on here.

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Here is exactly the problem. People leaving aircraft on the shelf because they aren't the best available. I regularly fly the G-4 because it is the least of the G's we have so far. I flew the 190 A3 for fifteen months when the only thing it was best at was the speed and punch. Challenge yourselves. Learn the idiosyncrasies of the airframes. This is the best sim out there for imbuing each airframe with its own unique personality. There is joy in that as well.

I agree, it's why I fly the G2 despite the F4 being considered "better" by most; but we both know this performance chasing will always be a problem. It's been a problem since the first air sims implemented online multiplayer.

 

I think the Kuban planeset is the best we've ever been offered as far as the variety and idiosyncracies of all the aircraft. For someone who only has Kuban, there is a different reason to fly every aircraft on offer. I concede that the G4 is a great addition to Kuban for that reason.

 

I'll admit, my comment was more oriented from the position of us fanatics who have everything, and that is where the G4 becomes a little superfluous. If there is a choice between an F4 and a G4 on the same map, most people are picking the F4. We don't have to like it, but it is what it is. And of course maybe it just appears that way because not everyone has Kuban. Part of it will probably be up to the mapmakers to give people reasons to utilize these newer 109s; and maybe the FM changes will have some effect on that also.

 

All that said, my original comments came after a particularly bad day with the G4, and that certainly colored them. I'm sure it will all be fine. :)

Edited by hrafnkolbrandr

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Yet another reason why CoOps are superior and we need them back desperately.

The mission builder can specify how many of what type are available, and you can mitigate this "everyone going for the best plane" BS.

 

Trying to manage air-quake rooms is a lost cause.

CoOps is where it's at.

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I flew the G2 initially instead of the F4 for the fact that it's performance was lower. I wanted to be prepared for the downturn in performance of the G6. In the end I felt more at home in the G2 cockpit. I like the look and the thick bars more than earlier 109 pits. I fly the G4 often for the same reason I chose the G2.

 

Having flown the G4 lots though that burst of 1.42ata though can help slightly in a pinch just getting the nose that few precious mm needed to get a shot before a stall.

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Really surprised no one has jumped on this sooner;

 

G6 and -5FN were included in the proposed DEV roadmap yesterday.

 

Do you have a link to that roadmap? I guess i missed that one.

 

Thnx

 

Grt M

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I think G6 on this time had not that short time limit with the 1.42. You can read the 1min limit on the summer manual but on the october manual there is no mention about that limit. 

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