BF-109 G6 as Collector Plane ?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

As to the P-47, and as an American lusting for my home country's AC, please no! The Thunderbolt and all of her stablemates are far more suited to other theaters of the conflict. In fact, almost EVERY other theater. There are plenty of indigenous AC more suited and still to be included on the Eastern Front.

 

As to acquiring extra copies, clearly that was directed to those who can afford to do so. No one expects this community to give up a meal or rent to help the Devs beyond their means.

Edited July 17, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Rjel]

Unfortunately  a single copy of  the game cost as much as  almost 1 months of rent, so while I wish I could.. i cannot afford to make extra copies :/

Sorry VeryOldMan. I never meant to imply you or anyone else should feel obligated to make extra purchases, only that it was one way to generate extra revenue for the further development of this series.

[Bullets]

Yes please we need another 109.... and it just happens to be an even better performing one.. -.- Do you even want a fair fight? If anything the luftys need some lesser performance aircraft to compete against the i16, spit and lag better... atm only the E7 is similar performance wise and makes the fight interesting (against an experienced Lufty pilot)

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Yes please we need another 109.... and it just happens to be an even better performing one.. -.- Do you even want a fair fight? If anything the luftys need some lesser performance aircraft to compete against the i16, spit and lag better... atm only the E7 is similar performance wise and makes the fight interesting (against an experienced Lufty pilot)

Do we not have a mostly fair matchup already?

 

Perhaps to balance that lesser performance that you desire for them, the Luftwaffe should get something that can turn with the Spit, or be as durable as the Pe2?

 

I'm not sure what you would want to see; and G6 performance isn't going to be noticably better anyways.

[ShamrockOneFive]

From what I've read and been told over the years... in many ways the Bf109G-6 is a downgrade. Especially an early model G-6. The early installation of the MG131s required draggy additional bulges on the nose. It also has the same bumps and bulges tha the G-4 has plus the fixed tailwheel. So this is a heavier, draggier, and in some ways lower performing aircraft than the earlier option... just with increased punch. I've read that later versions never quite fixed the problem of added weight despite raw increases in climb and speed through to the K-4 version.

 

The firepower upgrade would be nice and I'd love to see the G-6 as an option. It's fun, its interesting, a lot of players would fly it, but it probably isn't going to do much to make the Luftwaffe better than it already is. So I don't see this as balance that is at stake here. Just another aircraft addition.

 

Red team is in a pretty good place with Battle of Kuban. I'm curious if the answer to the G-6 would be the La-5F, a worthy addition, or something else like the MBR-2 or the IL-4 or something from earlier in the war.

 

I've said it before that another totally opposite direction might be to fill out the Moscow and Stalingrad sets (Kuban is quite well served with Moscow and Stalingrad sets supplementing) with something like the IAR80/81 and the SB-2, Su-2 or I-153.

 

Also speaking of the K-4... I can't wait to one day have a Bf109K-4 in the IL-2: BoX series. I love seeing how a series of aircraft culminates in the "ultimate" version. Flying a K-4 in IL-2: 1946 was a totally different experience than the earlier Bf109s. It's like a different plane at that point. So fascinating!

Edited July 17, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The G-6 was 21-32kph slower and 1.7m/s worse in Climb than G-2/R2 (Recon Version), you can round up to  25k-40ph slower and 2.0m/s  for a clean G-2. 

 

Anyways, one thing the Game currently doesn't portray correctly is the Full Throttle Altitude which should be 6.7km in Level Flight and 5.7km in Climb at 270. This is a Problem that should be fixed as well at some Point, as right now 6k is the Absolute Max. 

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20160406010735/http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G1-6_datasheet/109G_perftable.html

Edited July 17, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Royal_Flight]

G-2/R2 (Recon version)

Although I don't think this sim needs yet another 109, I would be more than happy to see a photorecon variant, possibly added via an unlock. And especially if the same was done for the Spitfire.

 

I'm not sure what differences the recon 109 had, I know the PR Spitfires had the D wing with the guns removed and the whole wing area filled with fuel, and a pair of underwing cameras angled down and one oblique camera behind the cockpit. And, arguably the best Spitfire paint scheme... all-over light blue.

I'm assuming the recon 109 was similar in this regard and wouldn't be too difficult to add and remove the required components.

 

Having faster, unarmed recon a/c would add a different dimension to missions and could add for some great challenges, plus it's dead easy to implement.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Normally recon models came with their own production subvariant (G3 and G5).

[Yogiflight]

Weren't the G3 and G5 the pressurized high altitude fighter versions of the G4 and G6?

The G8 seems to have been the dedicated reccon variant.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Yogiflight

[707shap_Srbin]

Normally recon models came with their own production subvariant (G3 and G5).

No, it is not.

 

Recoon models:

 

Bf109E series:

• Bf 109 E-5: Aufklärer; based on E-3; Armament 2 × 7,92-mm-MG 17; Kamera RB 21/18 in fuselage after the cockpit
• Bf 109 E-6: Aufklärer; based on E-4/N; Armament 2 × 7,92-mm-MG 17; manually operated Kamera RB 12,5/7,5 in fuselage after the cockpit
• Bf 109 E-7/U3: Aufklärer, manually operated Kamera RB 12,5/7,5 in fuselage after the cockpit; Radiostation FuG 17
• Bf 109 E-9: Aufklärer; based on E-7/N; Armament 2 × 7,92-mm-MG 17; RB-50/30-Camera

Bf109F series:

• Bf 109 F-4/R2: Aufklärer; Rb-20/30-Camera installed instead of Radiostation, no engine-mounted cannon, 5 aircraft were produced in Erla
• Bf 109 F-4/R3: Aufklärer; Rb-50/30-Camera installed instead of Radiostation, no engine-mounted cannon, 36 aircrafts produced in Erla
• Bf 109 F-5: Aufklärer; Engine as on F-4, Armament 2 × 7,92-mm-MG 17; Camera Rb-50/30, not produced
• Bf 109 F-6: Aufklärer; Engine & Armament as on F-5; Camera Rb-20/30 or 75/30, not produced

Bf109G series

• Bf 109 G-2/R2: Aufklärer; Engine & Armament as on G-2; Camera Rb 50/30, Rb 75/30, Rb 20/30 or Rb 12.5/9 in fuselage
• Bf 109 G-4/R2: Aufklärer; Engine & Armament as on  G-1; Camera Rb 50/30  in fuselage
• Bf 109 G-6/R2: Aufklärer; Engine as on G-6, Armament1 × 20-mm-MG 151/20; with Camera RB 50/30
• Bf 109 G-6/R3: Aufklärer; Engine as on G-6, Armament1 × 20-mm-MG 151/20; with Camera RB 75/30
• Bf 109 G-8: Aufklärer; Engine as on G-6, Armament1 × 20-mm-MG 151/20; two RB-12,5/7×9- or 32/7×9- in fuselage; no pressurised canopy.

 

From this list, only Bf109G-8 were built as a dedicated recce aircraft.

Edited July 21, 2017 by I./ZG1_Panzerbar

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Weren't the G3 and G5 the pressurized high altitude fighter versions of the G4 and G6?

The G8 seems to have been the dedicated reccon variant.

Yea but didn't they also have the recon Umbausatz / Rüstsatz? Could be my memory serves me wrong.

 

Edit: Thx Panzerbär for pointing that out.

Edited July 18, 2017 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Bullets]

From what I've read and been told over the years... in many ways the Bf109G-6 is a downgrade. Especially an early model G-6. The early installation of the MG131s required draggy additional bulges on the nose. It also has the same bumps and bulges tha the G-4 has plus the fixed tailwheel. So this is a heavier, draggier, and in some ways lower performing aircraft than the earlier option... just with increased punch. I've read that later versions never quite fixed the problem of added weight despite raw increases in climb and speed through to the K-4 version.

 

The firepower upgrade would be nice and I'd love to see the G-6 as an option. It's fun, its interesting, a lot of players would fly it, but it probably isn't going to do much to make the Luftwaffe better than it already is. So I don't see this as balance that is at stake here. Just another aircraft addition.

 

Red team is in a pretty good place with Battle of Kuban. I'm curious if the answer to the G-6 would be the La-5F, a worthy addition, or something else like the MBR-2 or the IL-4 or something from earlier in the war.

 

I've said it before that another totally opposite direction might be to fill out the Moscow and Stalingrad sets (Kuban is quite well served with Moscow and Stalingrad sets supplementing) with something like the IAR80/81 and the SB-2, Su-2 or I-153.

 

Also speaking of the K-4... I can't wait to one day have a Bf109K-4 in the IL-2: BoX series. I love seeing how a series of aircraft culminates in the "ultimate" version. Flying a K-4 in IL-2: 1946 was a totally different experience than the earlier Bf109s. It's like a different plane at that point. So fascinating!

 

Hmmm in that case I take back what I said!   I would still prefer the hurri as a collector plane though     I am all for uber planes as long as they have a fair match for the other side to use, 109 K-4 for the Blues & A late version Spit would be lovely   

[Custard]

Hmmm in that case I take back what I said!   I would still prefer the hurri as a collector plane though     I am all for uber planes as long as they have a fair match for the other side to use, 109 K-4 for the Blues & A late version Spit would be lovely   

 

>>>/DCS/ for timetraveling planes

[Bullets]

>>>/DCS/ for timetraveling planes

 

No flight sim I have ever used simulates flight as superbly as IL2 BOX & ROF   

[ShamrockOneFive]

Hmmm in that case I take back what I said!   I would still prefer the hurri as a collector plane though     I am all for uber planes as long as they have a fair match for the other side to use, 109 K-4 for the Blues & A late version Spit would be lovely   

 

Oh if we got a Bf109K-4 I'd want the rest of the aircraft set to match as well. Absolutely. I've said it before and I will say it again.. the 1CGS devs are very good at picking an aircraft set that is both authentic to the battle down to the specific series letter/number and something that works fairly well for both teams (with a mix of aircraft, types, roles, etc.).

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

If we go late war...

 

Spitfire Mk(whatever)

P51 (something)

P47 (something)

B26?

 

Bf109k

Fw190d

Me262

He177?

 

P38 and (something axis) collector planes?

 

It's a little hard finding late war German designs in significant enough production to justify inclusion.

Edited July 19, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr

[ShamrockOneFive]

If we do a March/April 1945 setup then there are a variety of interesting aircraft available at the tactical level. I own three books on 2nd TAF operations and you can glean a fair bit about what the Luftwaffe was using while learning a ton about the Allied (and particularly the RAF) :

 

RAF

Spitfire IX/XVI (including some with bubbletops)

Spitfire XIV

Typhoon IB

Tempest V

Mosquito VI

Mosquito XVI

Boston IV

Mitchell III

 

USAAF

P-51D-25

P-47D-30

P-38L-5

A-20G

B-26G

 

Luftwaffe

Bf109G-14

Bf109G-10

Bf109K-4

FW190A-9

FW190F-8

FW190D-9

Do217M or K

Ar234

Me262

 

There's also a fair number of claims for Ju88s and He111s during this time.

 

So really a ton of interesting types are available. There are some exotics in Luftwaffe service around this time like the FW190D-13 and the Ta152H but I steered clear of those in favour of stuff frequently used.

 

Ideally you could build up the aircraft set with battles from Normandy through the Ardennes to Germany itself and the February-April battles including late model versions of the Bf109G-6 (like how I brought it back on subject? ) through to the K-4.

Edited July 19, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[III/JG2Gustav05]

The G-6 was 21-32kph slower and 1.7m/s worse in Climb than G-2/R2 (Recon Version), you can round up to  25k-40ph slower and 2.0m/s  for a clean G-2. 

 

Anyways, one thing the Game currently doesn't portray correctly is the Full Throttle Altitude which should be 6.7km in Level Flight and 5.7km in Climb at 270. This is a Problem that should be fixed as well at some Point, as right now 6k is the Absolute Max. 

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20160406010735/http://kurfurst.org/Performance_tests/109G1-6_datasheet/109G_perftable.html

Klaus_Mann,

 The link you list here is very confusing. seems the G6 in this table is with Gondola MG151, G2/R2 with Camera only. What I can interpret from this table is, G4 with gondola is 0.5m/s worse than G2 with gondola in clime rate. G6 with gondola is 0.1m/S worse than G4 with gondola in climb rate.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Klaus_Mann,

 The link you list here is very confusing. seems the G6 in this table is with Gondola MG151, G2/R2 with Camera only. What I can interpret from this table is, G4 with gondola is 0.5m/s worse than G2 with gondola in clime rate. G6 with gondola is 0.1m/S worse than G4 with gondola in climb rate.

Yeah, I slipped in the List as well. You are, in Fact, more correct than me. 10kph and 0.7m/s worse Climb. 

[II/JG11_ATLAN_VR]

If we do a March/April 1945 setup then there are a variety of interesting aircraft available at the tactical level. I own three books on 2nd TAF operations and you can glean a fair bit about what the Luftwaffe was using while learning a ton about the Allied (and particularly the RAF) :

 

RAF

Spitfire IX/XVI (including some with bubbletops)

Spitfire XIV

Typhoon IB

Tempest V

Mosquito VI

Mosquito XVI

Boston IV

Mitchell III

 

USAAF

P-51D-25

P-47D-30

P-38L-5

A-20G

B-26G

 

Luftwaffe

Bf109G-14

Bf109G-10

Bf109K-4

FW190A-9

FW190F-8

FW190D-9

Do217M or K

Ar234

Me262

 

There's also a fair number of claims for Ju88s and He111s during this time.

 

So really a ton of interesting types are available. There are some exotics in Luftwaffe service around this time like the FW190D-13 and the Ta152H but I steered clear of those in favour of stuff frequently used.

 

Ideally you could build up the aircraft set with battles from Normandy through the Ardennes to Germany itself and the February-April battles including late model versions of the Bf109G-6 (like how I brought it back on subject? ) through to the K-4.

i would like to go to end of war reichsverteidigung for a Long time, still hope !

[Voidhunger]

 

i would like to go to end of war reichsverteidigung for a Long time, still hope !]

 

+1000

 

My dream!

Edited July 19, 2017 by Voidhunger

[Bullets]

If we do a March/April 1945 setup then there are a variety of interesting aircraft available at the tactical level. I own three books on 2nd TAF operations and you can glean a fair bit about what the Luftwaffe was using while learning a ton about the Allied (and particularly the RAF) :

 

RAF

Spitfire IX/XVI (including some with bubbletops)

Spitfire XIV

Typhoon IB

Tempest V

Mosquito VI

Mosquito XVI

Boston IV

Mitchell III

 

USAAF

P-51D-25

P-47D-30

P-38L-5

A-20G

B-26G

 

Luftwaffe

Bf109G-14

Bf109G-10

Bf109K-4

FW190A-9

FW190F-8

FW190D-9

Do217M or K

Ar234

Me262

 

 

I would throw hundreds at 1C & 777 to make this     

[Alexmarine]

Don't forget the eastern front:

 

Yak-3, Yak-9 ,La-7, IL-10 and Tu-2

[ShamrockOneFive]

Don't forget the eastern front:

 

Yak-3, Yak-9 ,La-7, IL-10 and Tu-2

 

I'd be just as excited about those too! :D

[LLv34_Temuri]

G-6 would be nice as a Finn, but G.50 and P-36 would be even better

[xvii-Dietrich]

G-6 would be nice as a Finn, but G.50 and P-36 would be even better

 

Yep, agreed.

 

Or a Myrsky.

[Cpt_Cool]

If I could pick for the devs I would go with a "Beauty and the Beast" IAR 80/81 - Hurricane combo for the next collector release. Really Interesting airplanes but no world beaters.

[Alexmarine]

Some of the earlier Yak and LaGG would be interesting too, especially to have them in the BoM campaing setting. I would like to fly a LaGG of the 2/3 or 4th series

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

If I could pick for the devs I would go with a "Beauty and the Beast" IAR 80/81 - Hurricane combo for the next collector release. Really Interesting airplanes but no world beaters.

That would be an awesome combo! Devs, please do this!

[Cpt_Cool]

That is assuming they have a little room in the schedule after BOK release and before major BOMidway operations get rolling.

[Rjel]

No, it is not.

 

Recoon models:

 

• Bf 109 E-5: Aufklärer; basierend auf E-3; Bewaffnung 2 × 7,92-mm-MG 17; Kamera RB 21/18 im Rumpf hinter dem Cockpit
• Bf 109 E-6: Aufklärer; basierend auf E-4/N; Bewaffnung 2 × 7,92-mm-MG 17; handbediente Kamera RB 12,5/7,5 im Rumpf hinter dem Cockpit
• Bf 109 E-7/U3: Aufklärer, handbediente Kamera RB 12,5/7,5 im Rumpf hinter dem Cockpit; Funkgerät FuG 17
• Bf 109 E-9: Aufklärer; basierend auf E-7/N; Bewaffnung 2 × 7,92-mm-MG 17; RB-50/30-Kamera
• Bf 109 F-4/R2: Aufklärer; Rb-20/30-Kamera anstelle der Funkanlage, keine Motorkanone, fünf Flugzeuge von Erla gebaut
• Bf 109 F-4/R3: Aufklärer; Rb-50/30-Kamera anstelle der Funkanlage, keine Motorkanone, 36 Flugzeuge von Erla gebaut
• Bf 109 F-5: Aufklärer; Motor wie F-4, Bewaffnung 2 × 7,92-mm-MG 17; Rb-50/30-Kamera, nicht gebaut
• Bf 109 F-6: Aufklärer; Motor und Bewaffnung wie F-5; Rb-20/30- oder 75/30-Kameras, nicht gebaut
• Bf 109 G-2/R2: Aufklärer; Motor und Bewaffnung wie G-2; Aufklärungskamera Rb 50/30, Rb 75/30, Rb 20/30 oder Rb 12.5/9 im Rumpf hinter der Kanzel
• Bf 109 G-4/R2: Aufklärer; Motor und Bewaffnung wie G-1; Aufklärungskamera Rb 50/30 im Rumpf hinter der Kanzel
• Bf 109 G-6/R2: Aufklärer; Motor wie G-6, Bewaffnung 1 × 20-mm-MG 151/20; mit Reihenbildgerät RB 50/30
• Bf 109 G-6/R3: Aufklärer; Motor wie G-6, Bewaffnung 1 × 20-mm-MG 151/20; mit Reihenbildgerät RB 75/30
• Bf 109 G-8: Aufklärer; Motor wie G-6, Bewaffnung 1 × 20-mm-MG 151/20; zwei RB-12,5/7×9- oder 32/7×9-Kameras im Rumpf hinter der Kanzel; keine Druckkabine

 

From this list, only Bf109G-8 were built as a dedicated recce aircraft.

 

 

I know a lot of guys here really seem to get off using their cool Germanish techno jargon, but for most of us the above is just gibberish.

[Rjel]

I would throw hundreds at 1C & 777 to make this     

If we are doing late war, as much as I like the B-26 Ma rauder, I'd prefer to get the A-26 which was in service in Europe by that time. I think some gun nose A-26s were there too.                 

[LLv34_Temuri]

Yep, agreed.

 

Or a Myrsky.

Well, Myrsky didn't have operative use on the Finnish front. Would be nice though.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I know a lot of guys here really seem to get off using their cool Germanish techno jargon, but for most of us the above is just gibberish.

 

No, it's a foreign language and you can use Google Translate if you're having difficulty discerning what was written.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I know a lot of guys here really seem to get off using their cool Germanish techno jargon, but for most of us the above is just gibberish.

I have no Problem dicerning any of that German Technobabble. And the Russian Stuff isn't that hard to understand either if you go at it Logically. 

[Rjel]

No, it's a foreign language and you can use Google Translate if you're having difficulty discerning what was written.

 

 

I have no Problem dicerning any of that German Technobabble. And the Russian Stuff isn't that hard to understand either if you go at it Logically. 

 

As I remember others have been chastised for using a foreign language in what is supposed to be an English language forum. Could be wrong, but yeah I do find it silly to use here. As to using Google, I can cross reference books and magazines I own and figure it out.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Well, Myrsky didn't have operative use on the Finnish front. Would be nice though.

 

What do you mean by "Finnish front"?

 

My understanding was that they were used in LLv.12 during the Continuation War.  Ref: https://www.vlmyrsky.fi/historia/10

[LLv34_Temuri]

What do you mean by "Finnish front"?

 

My understanding was that they were used in LLv.12 during the Continuation War.  Ref: https://www.vlmyrsky.fi/historia/10

I stand corrected

[xvii-Dietrich]

No problem. 

 

It made me double check... and that's a good thing!

 

 

 

 

So, Devs... can we have a Myrsky now?

[Retnek]

It made me double check... and that's a good thing!

It "made" you double-check? I always though that feature was hard-coded ...