Jump to content
Han

Developer Diary, Part 161 - Discussion

Recommended Posts

Once again a hell of an dev diary. Many thanks for the effort and dedication! You're simply the best!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice, four Romanian skins :)

Just a minor note , the inscription "HAIFETITO", on the 15-th skin , it should be a space there "HAI (space) FETITO" , it means "c'mon girlie ! "

Germans had 5 Hs129-equipped squadrons on same time, Romanians had 3 (41, 42 and 60 Escadrilla Asalt). So, 4 of 15 skins for Romanians - it is even not enough :) Must be more...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to be contrarian. I am afraid all planes are going to be nerfed. That is what is going to happen.

My concrete fear is that the planes are not going to be controllable at higher speeds, that is what this increased load on the control surfaces means in practice.

 

All planes are going to be sluggish.

 

The FM, is it going to be more realistic? I do not know! And I am afraid the developers are not knowing because we have no data how they reached their conclusions in the first place. My biggest fear is that  they are nerfing everything by using trial and error.

Did they hire experienced real life aerobatic pilots to tell them what is realistic or not?

 

I am almost sure that a lot of people are not going to be happy with that. Let's see, but I am not optimistic that they are going to make the things right all at once.

I JUST HOPE I AM WRONG.

Edited by JG27_Kornezov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to be contrarian. But all planes are going to be nerfed. That is what is going to happen.

Is the FM is going to be more realistic? I do not know!

 

I am almost sure that a lot of people are not going to be happy with that. Let's see, but I am not optimistic that they are going to make the things right all at once.

 

Ya, you're right, I never thought of that.  Maybe they've spent the last 6 to 8 months in development for an FM change to make it less realistic.  Just toss all their engineering right out the window.  Of course.  Thanks for that.

  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The devs have shown more than often that they don't do a lot of guesswork but rely on data. Right now planes can do ridiculus manouvers at high speed, this was until now a limitation of the model so what we will see with the new FM will be closer to reality actually.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What can I say... After all those long hours practising take-offs and landings in crazy planes like the Mig-3, finally achieving consistency and confidence, the devs are about to release a physics improvement which appears to be n00bifying my favourite sim! Darn it!

Just kidding, awesome stuff on improving the realism, will probably require more training to adjust anyway.

 

Then there is the Spitfire, oh I can't wait. All those Britboy tears pouring down their cheeks at the sheer realisation, that it actually requires a helluva lot of skill to kill 109s with this twitchy bird! :D I'm still going to fly the hell out of it though.

 

Anyway, 1CGS, thank you once again for raising the realism bar, for all the hard work and thank you again and again for putting this game back on the right track a while ago, cause it's a damn fine track and you guys are racing through it proper like an 86 Corolla down Haruna downhill.

 

Best wishes to everyone, see you in the air sometime!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to be contrarian. I am afraid all planes are going to be nerfed. That is what is going to happen.

My concrete fear is that the planes are not going to be controllable at higher speeds, that is what this increased load on the control surfaces means in practice.

 

All planes are going to be sluggish.

 

The FM, is it going to be more realistic? I do not know! And I am afraid the developers are not knowing because we have no data how they reached their conclusions in the first place. My biggest fear is that  they are nerfing everything by using trial and error.

Did they hire experienced real life aerobatic pilots to tell them what is realistic or not?

 

I am almost sure that a lot of people are not going to be happy with that. Let's see, but I am not optimistic that they are going to make the things right all at once.

I JUST HOPE I AM WRONG.

Good God!

 

People have been asking for a FM revision for a long time, and now when it`s coming, it`s not okay. Just read what Jordan said above.

 

I hope that you`re just not fearing that your precious F4 is getting nerfed. It`s not, all planes get more real FM as you can see. You`re a very good pilot, I`m sure you will live with better flight models  ;)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic Job Team! you are so dedicated to provide to us the best ww2 flight sim! thank you and please continue!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah the Spit, I rather have the HS 129 . Time priority refuse me to fool around in a fighter. But after flying FNBF today, I have to say this game really is beautiful. Trees in autumn is spectacular . A real sightseeing just to fly low in a IL 2 . I find the damage model now much more realistic now than for a year ago, I do not know if that is the case , but it feels like it.

It has become a very good product , witch I proudly would recommend to anyone.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest fear is that  they are nerfing everything by using trial and error.

Do you really think they'd rely on actual data and pilot accounts for basically everything, then all of the sudden just "wing it" and decide FM adjustments and numbers through guessing?

 

I don't think the devs are just pissing away all their work to "nerf" every aircraft in the game in one update.

 

Good grief...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I JUST HOPE I AM WRONG.

You are.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to be contrarian. I am afraid all planes are going to be nerfed. That is what is going to happen.

My concrete fear is that the planes are not going to be controllable at higher speeds, that is what this increased load on the control surfaces means in practice.

 

All planes are going to be sluggish.

 

The FM, is it going to be more realistic? I do not know! And I am afraid the developers are not knowing because we have no data how they reached their conclusions in the first place. My biggest fear is that  they are nerfing everything by using trial and error.

Did they hire experienced real life aerobatic pilots to tell them what is realistic or not?

 

I am almost sure that a lot of people are not going to be happy with that. Let's see, but I am not optimistic that they are going to make the things right all at once.

I JUST HOPE I AM WRONG.

Did you run out of tin foil?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salutations,

 

I am going to state a wild unsubstantiated suspicion. :rolleyes: ... No matter how the new upcoming flight models perform, there will be those that moan and complain about something.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Then there is the Spitfire, oh I can't wait. All those Britboy tears pouring down their cheeks at the sheer realisation, that it actually requires a helluva lot of skill to kill 109s with this twitchy bird! :D I'm still going to fly the hell out of it though.

 

 

I'm looking forward to the first time I get to engage one in a 190.  :D

 

But flying it will be a treat too for sure.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop arguing and here's a gift for the weekend. The Spitfire really is a gorgeous aircraft. 

 

Spitfire_4K_WP.jpg

 

Jason

  • Upvote 31

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can claim to be one of the more critical guys, but I'm really looking forward to the FM update. Will there be flaws? Probably. Will there be complaints? Sure. But all in all I think we have to admit, that even with the current game we've got a gorgeous product. The fact that it is continuously improved is outstanding to be honest. Kuban is not my biggest wish, but also not really a problem for me. If this lets the development of this sim continue it's ok for me. And I'm going to support it. And when the carriers arrive, I'm only happy. I see a fantastic simming time ahead!

 

German: Jammern auf hohem Niveau!

English: Complaining on high level!

Edited by StG2_Manfred
  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The attention to detail in the flight model makes this sim stand apart from the rest. I will continue to sing your praises to my friends and purchase everything you sell!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop arguing and here's a gift for the weekend. The Spitfire really is a gorgeous aircraft. 

 

attachicon.gifSpitfire_4K_WP.jpg

 

Jason

Thanks for the appetizer… It looks delicious. Now bring on the main course!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop arguing and here's a gift for the weekend. The Spitfire really is a gorgeous aircraft. 

 

attachicon.gifSpitfire_4K_WP.jpg

 

Jason

 

Thanks - outstanding looking skin too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pardon my ignorance, but can somebody tell me what it means when they say "pitch/yaw/roll load has been increased"?

 

What does that actually mean for me flying the plane?

 

I think you can understand it as if the said control (pitch/yaw/roll) will feel heavier (increased load) or lighter (decreased load).

"Load increased" means, that you are going to need a larger control input to achieve the same effect after the change has been implemented. In some cases it also means, that in extreme situations such as pulling out of a dive at high speed, the controls will be less effective which could mean the difference between life and (virtual) death.

Yes, that is.

The limits of control surfaces deflection depends on airspeed. We have reviewed this dependence.

  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop arguing and here's a gift for the weekend. The Spitfire really is a gorgeous aircraft. 

 

attachicon.gifSpitfire_4K_WP.jpg

 

Jason

I'm not really a Spitfire guy but that is a really great shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to throw my hat in and say I'm elated with the news of the forthcoming FM improvements. Extremely impressive move by the team. THANK YOU!

 

I haven't had a strong opinion on particular FM characteristics, and certainly haven't gotten involved in debates here. I have, however, found myself drifting to other (intentionally unnamed) sims for two main reasons: 1) Flying feels more challenging, and 2) Overcoming these challenges is rewarded by a deeper understanding of the aircraft that can *be applied in future similar situations* (aka, predictable behavior). The update notes seem to imply that the FM is becoming more challenging and also more predictable. So I'm excited!

 

It's worth noting that the points above are more related to game theory than realism. Despite having a few hours behind the yolk in light aircraft, I don't claim to be the arbiter of realism. Rather, it's simply more rewarding to face challenges, overcome them, and see the benefits of skill acquisition in new situations.

 

Just one guy's opinion. I'm sure there are many counterpoints ;-)

Edited by badracketadam_wagner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not really a Spitfire guy but that is a really great shot.

Not really a Spitfire guy myself, more of a 109 type. But there`s something legendary in that plane, I have to admit. Must be those wings  :)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FM Update:

 

This is massive. As a gamer who loves aviation history and has a thirst for realism, this is where it's at. It's why I keep voting for 777. I've always felt the sim went easy on us in high speed handling, and a little hard on us in some other respects. It will be good to see yet another element of realism fall into place, and one that benefits every member of our player community irrespective of their virtual flying preferences, setup and ability.

 

Spitfire!

 

 

 

The Spitfire really is a gorgeous aircraft.

 

That says it all.

 

For "we happy few" who have flown Soviet machines throughout our careers, going back to Imperial is going to be a real ache. We love our old crates. The struggle is to be worthy of the machine, not to acquire a worthy machine.

 

As for wild expectations, Nobody is realistically hoping to fly a 1941 British propganada film. I for one will not be single-handedly saving the world. In combat the Spitfire was a respected machine with her own strengths and limitations.

 

There is another legend waiting in the wings, about to join a great host of legends upon the main stage; and she is it likely to carve out her own space. Pilots all over the world eagerly await her, one way or the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When they say flight stick and pedal loads increased / decreased, is that a FFB thing or something that will effect everyone?

Compressibility................

 

Some of the minor effects include changes to the airflow that lead to problems in control. For instance, the P-38 Lightning had a particular problem in high speed dives that led to the horizontal stabilizer losing "authority". Pilots would enter dives, and then find that they could no longer control the plane, it would continue to nose over until it crashed. Adding a "belly flap" to upset the airflow cured the problem.

A similar problem effected models of the Supermarine Spitfire. At high speeds the ailerons could apply more torque than the Spitfire's thin wings could handle, and the entire wing would twist in the opposite direction. This meant that the plane would roll in the direction opposite to what you would expect, and led to a number of accidents. This wasn't noticed until the later model Spitfires, like the Mk.IX, started to appear, earlier models weren't fast enough. This was solved by adding considerable strength to the wings, and was wholely cured when the Mk.XIV was introduced.

The Messerschmitt Bf 109 and had the exact opposite problem, the controls were too weak. At higher speeds the pilot simply couldn't move the controls because there was too much airflow over the control surfaces. The planes would become difficult to maneuver, at at high enough speeds even less maneuverable aircraft could out turn them.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop arguing and here's a gift for the weekend. The Spitfire really is a gorgeous aircraft. 

 

attachicon.gifSpitfire_4K_WP.jpg

 

Jason

I can tell all ready that it is nerfed. Consider this a per-complaint and some fake moral outrage as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe to keep with the times we need a fake Dev Update to keep up with the fake news!  LOL!

 

Great effort guys, hope the commercial side rewards your work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to be contrarian. I am afraid all planes are going to be nerfed. That is what is going to happen.

My concrete fear is that the planes are not going to be controllable at higher speeds, that is what this increased load on the control surfaces means in practice.

 

All planes are going to be sluggish.

 

The FM, is it going to be more realistic? I do not know! And I am afraid the developers are not knowing because we have no data how they reached their conclusions in the first place. My biggest fear is that they are nerfing everything by using trial and error.

Did they hire experienced real life aerobatic pilots to tell them what is realistic or not?

 

I am almost sure that a lot of people are not going to be happy with that. Let's see, but I am not optimistic that they are going to make the things right all at once.

I JUST HOPE I AM WRONG.

I get where you're coming from, but I think your fears are going to turn out to be unfounded.

 

If you read through the changes you will notice, that it is far from all planes that get a load increase on their controls, some get a decrease, and some get a bit of both.

 

In general it seems, that it is mainly some Soviet fighters that will have heavier controls at high speeds (which I don't mind if that's closer to reality)

 

The one aspect were we will notice a difference is the way all planes roll. Now that rudder induced roll is getting toned down significantly, the roll rates of all aircraft is going to feel more sluggish (right now all planes roll too well if you use rudder) However, I also think, that the advantage in roll rate on some planes like the Fw 190 and some Soviet fighters is going to be much more apparent, which is great.

 

All in all, I'm pretty optimistic.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing update text and shots!

 

Thanks for the heads up! Happy with the way this sim is going..!

 

Kudos to Panzerbar for the skins! Oh, and could we have some damaged Hs 129 shots? :)

Edited by CAPSLOCK_ON

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Compressibility................

 

Some of the minor effects include changes to the airflow that lead to problems in control. For instance, the P-38 Lightning had a particular problem in high speed dives that led to the horizontal stabilizer losing "authority". Pilots would enter dives, and then find that they could no longer control the plane, it would continue to nose over until it crashed. Adding a "belly flap" to upset the airflow cured the problem.

A similar problem effected models of the Supermarine Spitfire. At high speeds the ailerons could apply more torque than the Spitfire's thin wings could handle, and the entire wing would twist in the opposite direction. This meant that the plane would roll in the direction opposite to what you would expect, and led to a number of accidents. This wasn't noticed until the later model Spitfires, like the Mk.IX, started to appear, earlier models weren't fast enough. This was solved by adding considerable strength to the wings, and was wholely cured when the Mk.XIV was introduced.

The Messerschmitt Bf 109 and had the exact opposite problem, the controls were too weak. At higher speeds the pilot simply couldn't move the controls because there was too much airflow over the control surfaces. The planes would become difficult to maneuver, at at high enough speeds even less maneuverable aircraft could out turn them.

 

Excellent explanation, thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Compressibility................

Compressebility is a bit more complex than that. One of the main issues arising is the interruption of the flow pattern across the wing when the aircraft reaches high speeds (measured in mach). At the critical mach the airflow on one portion of the wing becomes supersonic creating shockwaves that interrupt the airstream and create turbulences. Because of that lifting areas behind it have little effect because of the highly disturbed airstream.

286px-Transonic_flow_patterns.svg.png

 

As for the P-38 the cirtical mach was well below other fighter aircraft of the time which lead to the problems of controll loss in a dive. At the same time the 109 F series suffered from issues with longitudinal instability and uneffective ailerouns at high speeds where compressebility became a factor.

 

The increase in controll load has nothing to do with this effect though since it applies for sub critical mach speeds.

Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...

The Messerschmitt Bf 109 had the exact opposite problem, the controls were too weak. At higher speeds the pilot simply couldn't move the controls because there was too much airflow over the control surfaces. The planes would become difficult to maneuver, at at high enough speeds even less maneuverable aircraft could out turn them.

...

In general it seems, that it is mainly some Soviet fighters that will have heavier controls at high speeds (which I don't mind if that's closer to reality)

 

The one aspect were we will notice a difference is the way all planes roll. Now that rudder induced roll is getting toned down significantly, the roll rates of all aircraft is going to feel more sluggish (right now all planes roll too well if you use rudder) However, I also think, that the advantage in roll rate on some planes like the Fw 190 and some Soviet fighters is going to be much more apparent, which is great.

 

All in all, I'm pretty optimistic.

I was interested to read the DD entries for the 109s and the 190s, and was coming to the same conclusions:

 

Bf 109 F-2/F-4/G-2/G-4:
1. Their roll rate at various flight conditions has been corrected (increased at medium and high speeds). edited: turns out this was a typo, since rectified by the devs - roll rates actually are decreased.
.
.
6. Flight stick load along the pitch axis has been increased at low and medium flight speeds.
7. Flight stick load along the roll axis at medium and high flight speeds has been increased significantly.
 
So the roll rate is increased but flight stick load is increased significantly too. Would it be right to conclude then that the net effect will be much reduced actual achievable roll rate at medium/high speeds for the 109s?
 
Fw-190 A3/A4:
.
2. Flight stick load along the roll axis has been slightly corrected at any flight speeds.
 
Doesn't state which direction the correction is in, but if controls made lighter I assume it would have the effect of making the 190 roll faster? edit: or maybe a better way to put it is that it would 'feel' snappier and quicker to roll
 
If so this seems like a big step towards historical accuracy.
 
Edited by kendo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Applause too your efforts
- to dig deep into the code you created, and make these delicate adjustments.
I look forward to the LaGG´s new Taxiing/ rolling behavior.
giphy.gif

Thank you for trying hard and delivering on your promises.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-snip-

 

I guess there was a typo that quickly got corrected since the first point about Bf 109F/Gs is now: 1. Their roll rate at various flight conditions has been corrected (decreased at medium and high speeds).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...