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Need Help with Squadron Dates and Plane Types


Jason_Williams
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  • 1CGS

Hello LukeFF,

Tell me please, where did you find this info?

 

Squad No. / Name: III./KG4

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 1 August 1942 - 29 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: He 111 H-6
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya

http://www.ww2.dk/air/kampf/kg4.htm - I can't find it...

 

 

KG27, Stalingrad: 

 

Squad No. / Name: I./KG27

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 1 August 1942 - 31 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: He 111 H-6
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya

Squad No. / Name: II./KG27

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 1 August 1942 - 31 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: He 111 H-6
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya

Squad No. / Name: III./KG27

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 1 August 1942 - 5 December 1942
Type of Planes Flown: He 111 H-6
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya

http://www.ww2.dk/air/kampf/kg27.htm - I can't find it...

 

KG51, Stalingrad: 

 

Squad No. / Name: I./KG51

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 10 July 1942 - 31 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 88
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya

Squad No. / Name: II./KG51

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 1 August 1942 - 31 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 88
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya

Squad No. / Name: III./KG51

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 20 August 1942 - 31 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 88
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya

http://www.ww2.dk/air/kampf/kg51.htm - I can't find it...

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  • 1CGS

The way I understood the bits and pieces I've found on II.(Schlacht)/LG 2 the posting to Staraya Russa was only for the (semi)independent 10.  Staffel which flew Hs 123 and operated independently of the Gruppe. My post #57 still provides a pretty good view - especially since it would allow for the campaign to remain uninterrupted. As it is it's not really known in detail where the Bf 109s of the Gruppe were in this timeframe with any great certainty beyond a few specific dates.

Yes, I want to use your version for Bf 109 E-7 in BOM campaign. In any case, I will have to make some compromises for some aircraft.

 

@BlackSix, there's not a whole lot of info out there on 13.(Pz)/JG 51, but the book Hs 129 Panzerjäger! confirms what Panzerbar wrote above - namely that it was operating from Kerch V from early May 1943. This seems to have lasted until early June 1943. Page 144 from the book states:

 

Early in June 1943, all Luftwaffe Hs 129 Staffeln on the Eastern Front, with the exception of Pz.Jä.St./JG 51, were completely withdrawn from operations and moved back to the Führer der Panzerjäger's support airfield at Zaporozhye where they were restored to full operational strength. While operating under the command of Oblt. Eggers, Pz.Jä.St./JG 51 had escaped heavy losses and...it was therefore able to remain at its airfield near Kharkov.

 

So, for the Kuban portion of career mode, I would keep 13.(Pz)/JG 51 at Kerch V from early May - early June 1943 and then withdraw it, along with any other Hs 129 units on the map.

Ok, thanks!

Next question will be about 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 at Kuban...

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25621-need-help-squadron-dates-and-plane-types/page-2?do=findComment&comment=398078

Now we've info only about 8.(Pz.).Schl.G.1, 4.(Pz.)/Schl.G.2 and Pz.Jg.St./JG51.

8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 - April 2 1943 - June 1 1943 - Anapa, Kerch

4.(Pz)/Sch.G 2 - early May - early June - Kerch

Pz.Jg.St./JG 51 - early May - early June - Kerch

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Hello LukeFF, Tell me please, where did you find this info?

 

Hey!

 

That information comes from Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe. In these cases, these units were flying in the Stalingrad area but were based at airfields to the west/southwest of BOS's map boundaries. I've updated the airfields below (and corrected some mistakes) to help you out (airfields in bold are ones outside the map boundaries but relevant for Stalingrad operations):

 

Squad No. / Name: III./KG4

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 28 July 1942 - 5 October 1942
Type of Planes Flown: He 111 H-6
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Makiivka: 28 July 1942 - 5 October 1942

Squad No. / Name: I./KG27

Dates Squad flew in Theater: September 1942 - February 1943 (with breaks in between)
Type of Planes Flown: He 111 H-6
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A

Airfields:

  • Millerovo: September 1942 - 20 December 1942
  • 20 December 1942 - January 1943: out of area, based at Urasov
  • Novocherkassk: January 1943 - February 1943

Squad No. / Name: II./KG27

Dates Squad flew in Theater: October 1942 - February 1943 (with breaks in between)
Type of Planes Flown: He 111 H-6
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Millerovo: October 1942 - 20 December 1942
  • 20 December 1942 - January 1943: out of area, based at Urasov
  • Novocherkassk: January 1943 - February 1943

Squad No. / Name: III./KG27

Dates Squad flew in Theater: September 1942 - February 1943
Type of Planes Flown: He 111 H-6
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Millerovo: September 1942 - 20 December 1942
  • Novocherkassk: 20 December 1942 - January 1943
  • Stalino (Donetsk): January 1943 - February 1943

Squad No. / Name: I./KG51

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 19 August 1942 - February 1943 (with breaks in between)
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 88
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya: 19 August 1942 - 6 October 1942
  • 6 October 1942 - 3 November 1942: out of area, at Sarabus
  • Tatsinskaya: 3 November 1942 - 7 December 1942
  • Rostov: 7 December 1942 - February 1943

Squad No. / Name: II./KG51

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 7 September 1942 - 20 September 1942
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 88
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Stalino (Donetsk): 7 September 1942 - 20 September 1942

Squad No. / Name: III./KG51

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 20 August 1942 - February 1943 (with breaks in between)
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 88
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya: 20 August 1942 - 28 September 1942
  • 28 September 1942 - 20 December 1942: out of area, at Sarabus
  • Rostov: 20 December 1942 - February 1943

Ok, thanks!

Next question will be about 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 at Kuban...
http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25621-need-help-squadron-dates-and-plane-types/page-2?do=findComment&comment=398078

Now we've info only about 8.(Pz.).Schl.G.1, 4.(Pz.)/Schl.G.2 and Pz.Jg.St./JG51.

8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 - April 2 1943 - June 1 1943 - Anapa, Kerch

4.(Pz)/Sch.G 2 - early May - early June - Kerch

Pz.Jg.St./JG 51 - early May - early June - Kerch

 

Sure thing, I'll take a look at my books and get back to you on that one.

 

Also, note that 8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 works for Moscow (where it was known as 8./Sch.G 1). I posted about it here.

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  • 1CGS

Hey!

 

That information comes from Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe. In these cases, these units were flying in the Stalingrad area but were based at airfields to the west/southwest of BOS's map boundaries. I've updated the airfields below (and corrected some mistakes) to help you out (airfields in bold are ones outside the map boundaries but relevant for Stalingrad operations):

Ok, I understood. Please, now we need only real airfeilds in the first place. How to transfer them on our maps we will decide with you later.

 

Also, note that 8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 works for Moscow (where it was known as 8./Sch.G 1). I posted about it here.

Yes, I saw, thx!

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Ok, I understood. Please, now we need only real airfields in the first place. How to transfer them on our maps we will decide with you later.

 

Got it. The airfields in my post up above are the only ones that are relevant to the game.  

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Next question will be about 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1 at Kuban...

 

 

Ok, here's what comes from Dive-Bomber and Ground Attack Units of the Luftwaffe:

 

After re-equipment, the Staffel left for the Crimea, arriving on 6 May...flying in support of hard-pressed German ground forces on the Taman Peninsula in North Caucasia to the south-west of Rostov, losing two Hs 129s near Krymskaya on 8 and 13 May. It was ordered back to the Reich (Deblin-Irena in Poland?) in June.

 

Hs 129 Panzerjäger! confirms this info, along with them flying from Kerch V until early June. 

 

So, I would have the four Hs 129 units on the map with these dates:

 

4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1: 6 May 1943 - 5 June 1943, at Kerch V

8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1: 17 April 1943 - 5 June 1943 at Anapa and Kerch V

4.(Pz)/Sch.G 2 - 6 May 1943 - 5 June 1943, at Kerch V

Pz.Jg.St./JG 51 - 6 May 1943 - 5 June 1943, at Kerch V

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  • 1CGS

4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1: 6 May 1943 - 5 June 1943, at Kerch V

8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1: 17 April 1943 - 5 June 1943 at Anapa and Kerch V

4.(Pz)/Sch.G 2 - 6 May 1943 - 5 June 1943, at Kerch V

Pz.Jg.St./JG 51 - 6 May 1943 - 5 June 1943, at Kerch V

Excellent, thank you!

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  • 1CGS

Ok, about KG for BOM:
 
csThor - thank you for the additional information: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25621-need-help-squadron-dates-and-plane-types/page-2?do=findComment&comment=398622
 
Now we've such info (I use Russian format for dates - dd-mm-yy)
KG_BOM.jpg
I propose to use Dvoevka instead Orscha (west of Vyazma) and Schatalowka (south-west of Vyazma) and use Yuhnov instead Setschinskaja (south-south-west of Vyazma). What do you think? In any case, it will be very long flights in the third and fourth chapters...

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I, personally, would prefer to see you use the south-westernmost airfield on the map which is Bol'shoe Vergovo for the simple reason that any bomber mission needs "space" for climbing to altitude and forming up (the more the better, especially in the He 111). I'd also rather not use Yukhnov as it was not available the whole time and ended up on the frontlines once the soviet counteroffensive petered out.

 

I am quite curious why you even included the Do-17Z equipped Gruppen as we don't have that type and both the He 111 and especially Ju 88 are considerably more powerful than it. 

Edited by csThor
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  • 1CGS

I am quite curious why you even included the Do-17Z equipped Gruppen as we don't have that type and both the He 111 and especially Ju 88 are considerably more powerful than it. 

This document is not intended for the current work on a new career. When we begin to make a new project I always compose such tables because I have to see the whole picture.

 

I'll show you some problems with Bol'shoe Vergovo later today.

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  • 1CGS

I, personally, would prefer to see you use the south-westernmost airfield on the map which is Bol'shoe Vergovo for the simple reason that any bomber mission needs "space" for climbing to altitude and forming up (the more the better, especially in the He 111). I'd also rather not use Yukhnov as it was not available the whole time and ended up on the frontlines once the soviet counteroffensive petered out.

In early October, in this area were heavy fighting and for a long time there were Soviet troops who were trying to get out of the environment.

1002602-i_106.jpg 1002602-i_102.jpg 1002602-i_108.jpg

To the east of Vyazma resistance almost was not, and I think we can use Dvoevka from 11 October.

042.jpg

Also, in early 1942, the area near Bol'shoe Vergovo was again occupied by Soviet troops and partisans

1942.jpg

 

Yuhnow was released March 5, 1942 but I./KG 28 that I can put on this airfield left front 2 February. It's ok I hope.

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Transport units are always a difficult issue with the Luftwaffe because of their rather "weird" structure (until they were amalgamated into "Transportgeschwader" in 1943). Wekusta 26 is a Weather Recon unit and not a transport one, though.

 

Addenum: Apparently almost all available Ju 52 were "misappropriated" throughout early October to transport 7th Flieger Division (the german Paratrooper Force at that time) from East Prussia to the area of Leningrad - nearly 200 aircraft were engaged for almost three weeks depriving Army Group Center of a much-needed means of supplying its forward units.

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  • 1CGS

Yes, I can't find more information for several years for them too. Apparently I have to select for player KGrzbV50 and show other KGrzbV as AI.

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Yes, I can't find more information for several years for them too. Apparently I have to select for player KGrzbV50 and show other KGrzbV as AI.

 

I would also choose KGrzbV102 as player-flyable, since they were present on all three maps and is one of the last Ju 52 units to leave the Kuban map. KGrzbV105 is also a good choice here, though they entered the Stalingrad area later.

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  • 1CGS

I would also choose KGrzbV102 as player-flyable, since they were present on all three maps and is one of the last Ju 52 units to leave the Kuban map. KGrzbV105 is also a good choice here, though they entered the Stalingrad area later.

Ok, I'll think but KGrzbV102 and KGrzbV105 left front in November 1941 and then we'll need to transfer player into another KGrzbV

So, please, check list with Ju 52 for BOK

KGV_BOK.jpg

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Ok, I'll think but KGrzbV102 and KGrzbV105 left front in November 1941 and then we'll need to transfer player into another KGrzbV

So, please, check list with Ju 52 for BOK

attachicon.gifKGV_BOK.jpg

 

Now that I look at your lists more closely, I think KGrzbV50 works best:

  • It's on the map for the entire Moscow campaign
  • It's on the map for the entire Stalingrad campaign
  • It's on the map for a good chunk of the Kuban campaign.

So yeah, go with this one. :)

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Also, a thought: to keep the Ju 52 units on the map for the whole Kuban campaign, I'd suggest keeping them at their current airfields and then renaming them to their new names in May 1943, like this: KGrzbV50 - II./TG3, etc.

Edited by LukeFF
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  • 1CGS

Yes but we've no any info about TGs... I can only assume that they were on the same airfields where old groups based from which they were formed.

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I can only assume that they were on the same airfields where there were old groups from which they were formed.

 

Yeah, unless new info is found, I would just keep them on the same airfields. 

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  • 1CGS

Yeah, unless new info is found, I would just keep them on the same airfields. 

Ok.

 

Next step: I need more info about III./St.G 3 for BOK

Here we can find: 8.43 - 10.43 - Bagerowo

Does somebody have any additional info about this group at Kuban?

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Next step: I need more info about III./St.G 3 for BOK

Here we can find: 8.43 - 10.43 - Bagerowo

Does somebody have any additional info about this group at Kuban?

 

I'll look that one up and get back to you on it. :) 

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Okay, III./St.G 3:

  • 25-29 September: transferred to Bagerovo in eastern Crimea and reassigned to Luftflotte 4. 
  • 2 October: 9.Staffel Ju 87 D-5 shot down by AA fire over the Taman Peninsula.
  • 4 October: Ju 87 D-3 crash-landed at Zaporozhye airfield after being shot up by AA fire. As the Soviet summer offensive reached the Dnieper at the end of September, the Gruppe was assigned missions not only in the eastern Crimea - Black Sea area but also to the north in the Dnepropetrovsk - Zaporozhye area. 
  • 6 October: in four separate missions over the course of the day, attacked and sank the Soviet destroyers Kharkov, Besposhchadny and Sposobny in the Black Sea off Crimea. 

So, this unit should be on the map from 25 September til the end of the campaign. 


And, for good measure, I./St.G 3:

  • 29 March: moved to Kerch IV airfield at the tip of eastern Crimea on or around this date. 
  • 11 June: transferred from Kerch IV via Bulgaria to Athens-Eleusis. 

So, this unit should be at Kerch IV from the start of the Kuban campaign to the 10th of June.

Edited by LukeFF
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Also, some more corrections to earlier info, in particular St.G 2 over Kuban:

 

I./St.G 2:

  • Kerch IV: 16 April - 30 April
  • Kharkov-North: 1 May - 6 May
  • 13 May: moved to Kramatorskaya / 82 km north of Stalino and then to Bagerovo back in eastern Crimea.
  • 28 - 31 May: heavy action over the Kuban bridgehead with 1 Ju 87 D-3 shot down by AA fire and 3 more damaged.
  • June: no information has come to light on the Gruppe's activities during June, but the absence of losses suggests it may have been on stand down in Crimea to rest and refit in preparation for the German Kursk offensive. 

So, I would have them at Kerch IV until at least 30 April, and then afterwards move them to Bagerovo (if it's depicted) and keep them there until 31 May. 

 

II./St.G 2

  • 16 April: at Kerch IV
  • 1-10 May: temporarily at Stalino
  • 11 May: back at Kerch IV
  • In action over the Kuban bridgehead throughout June
  • 3-4 July: transferred north for the Kursk offensive.

So, Kerch IV from the beginning of campaign to the 2nd of July.

 

III./St. G 2:

  • 1-15 April: transfer to Kerch IV.
  • 1-6 May: temporarily at Kharkov-North
  • 9 May: back at Kerch IV
  • In action over the Kuban bridgehead throughout June.
  • 2-3 July: transferred north for the Kursk offensive.

So, Kerch IV from the beginning of campaign to the 1st of July.

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Concerning: III./St.G 2 on the Stalingrad map. Dive-Bomber and Ground Attack units of the Luftwaffe notes they were gone from Tatsinsksya to another part of the front by 11 August, and that their order to move to Karpovka in October was probably either delayed or cancelled, as no loss reports or other evidence has been found to support their move back to the Stalingrad sector; a damage report for the unit from 29 October has them still at Vyazma, and a subsequent report has them still at Vyazma on 10 November. 17 December, another loss report from Vyazma was reported. So, I would not include this unit on the map.

Edited by LukeFF
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Other corrections for St.G 2 at Stalingrad:

 

Squad No. / Name: I./St.G.2

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 20 July 1942 - 3 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 87
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya: 20 July 1942
  • Oblivskaya: 29 July 1942
  • Karpovka: 13 October 1942
  • Morozovskiy West: 26 November 1942
  • 3 January: last aircraft destroyed to prevent their capture. No more operations on this map after this date.

Squad No. / Name: II./St.G.2

Dates Squad flew in Theater: July 1942 - 7 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 87
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Oblivskaya: 1 August 1942
  • Karpovka: 13 October 1942
  • Morozovskiy West: 23 November 1942
  • Tatsinskaya: 3 January 1943
  • 7 January: aircraft destroyed to prevent their capture. No more operations on this map after this date.

Squad No. / Name: Stuka Sonderstaffel

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 28 November 1942 - 17 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 87
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Pitomnik

This was 6./St.G 2 (or part of it), operating under Oberleutnant Heinz Jungclausen.  

Edited by LukeFF
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Updates / corrections for II./St.G 1 at Stalingrad

 

Squad No. / Name: II./St.G.1

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 23 August 1942 - December 1942
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 87
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Tatsinskaya: 23 August 1942
  • Oblivskaya: 31 August 1942
  • Karpovka: 15 October 1942
  • Oblivskaya: 19 November 1942
  • Morozovskiy West: 23 November 1942
  • First part of December 1942: all remaining aircraft handed over to St.G 2 and transferred to Rostov for rest and refit.
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Updates for St.G 77:

 

St.G.77, Stalingrad: 

 

Squad No. / Name: I./St.G.77

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 20 August 1942 - 2 February 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 87
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Oblivskaya: 20 August 1942
  • Karpovka: 15 October 1942
  • Gigant (13 km north / northwest of Ssalsk): 6 January 1943

Squad No. / Name: II./St.G.77

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 15 August 1942 - 4 January 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 87
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Oblivskaya: 15 August 1942
  • Kotelnikovo: December 1942
  • Kostiantynivka: 28 December
  • After 4 January: rest and refit at Nikolayev

St.G 77, Kuban:

 

Squad No. / Name: II./St.G.77

Dates Squad flew in Theater: 17 April 1943 - 30 April 1943
Type of Planes Flown: Ju 87
Dates Plane Types were Changed: N/A
Airfields:
  • Kerch: 17 April 1943 - 30 April 1943
Edited by LukeFF
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Squad No. / Name: 9th Guards IAP

Dates Squad flew in Theater: August 1942 - February 1943
Type of Planes Flown: LaGG-3, Yak-1 / Yak-1B
Dates Plane Types were Changed: 11 December 1942
Airfields:
  • Zaplavnoye: August 1942
  • Zhitkur: October - November 1942
  • Zety: 11 December 1942

9 GvIAP was pulled out of combat in October 1942 in order to re-equip with Yak-1s (and probably Yak-1Bs). It trained at Zhitkur through November and was brought back into operation for the first time on 11 December. 

 

Source: Stalingrad - The Air Battle: 1942 through January 1943

Edited by LukeFF
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I have been thinking about transport campaigns and I must admit I am rather skeptical if they really should be part of a dynamic campaign. The reason is simple: The use of transport planes in a setting like the Kuban Bridgehead is vastly different from that in Operation "Typhoon" and vastly different than that during the Stalingrad Air Bridge.

 

Typhoon would see the player basically shuttle between the home base (i.e. Vyazma) and whatever forward landing strip the advancing forces have just managed to clear, taking supplies (mostly fuel and ammo) to the front and bringing wounded back so they can be transfered to a medical installation.

The Stalingrad airlift was specific in so far that the weather conditions usually were abysmal and the challenge would be found in navigation, flying in adverse weather, avoiding soviet AAA zones and fighters ... As the flights were organized as one-way-trips with a serious break between landing at Pitomnik and taking off back to Tazi or Moro (IIRC something like several hours) it wouldn't really be a round-trip but two separate flights per transport mission. I am sure such missions would be better to be embedded into a static campaign with specific storytelling because then individual missions can provide different challenges, their appearance (or not) can be tailor-made and the storytelling around the flights can create immersion. A dynamic campaign is not truly suited to such a task and I am afraid a larger number of missions for a transport pilot can become repetetive quite quickly.

 

Now, looking at Kuban, I pretty much doubt the value of having a transport campaign there at all. Why? Because it would be reduced to quick hops in between airfields on Crimea and Kuban, but the majority of such flights would habe gone from the crimean bases back to the major railheads like Kiev, taking back mail, wounded, soldiers on leave or officers on official trips back there and pick up high-value stuff like spare parts, fuel or whatever else may be needed a bit quicker than transport by rail can provide. That was the reality  for most of the transport units for most of the time - going back far into the hinterland to shuttle supplies and people back and forth. Since we lack the hinterland we can't really depict those missions.

Edited by csThor
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Now, looking at Kuban...

...

Since we lack the hinterland we can't really depict those missions.

 

I doubt Kuban, but because of other reason.

As I know, cargo planes and gliders were widely used only in winter time (winter 1942-1943), while Kerch Strait was covered with ice (or with large lumps of ice) and water transport was useless.

But, as I know, developers said, that we will have only summer and autumn maps. That's why the Kuban campaign will end in october 1943. No reason use expensive air transport while was more effective water transport (and later cable road)

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I doubt Kuban, but because of other reason.

As I know, cargo planes and gliders were widely used only in winter time (winter 1942-1943), while Kerch Strait was covered with ice (or with large lumps of ice) and water transport was useless.

But, as I know, developers said, that we will have only summer and autumn maps. That's why the Kuban campaign will end in october 1943. No reason use expensive air transport while was more effective water transport (and later cable road)

 

Exactly. 

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  • 1CGS

Okay, III./St.G 3:

So, this unit should be on the map from 25 September til the end of the campaign. 

And, for good measure, I./St.G 3:

So, this unit should be at Kerch IV from the start of the Kuban campaign to the 10th of June.

Also, some more corrections to earlier info, in particular St.G 2 over Kuban:

 

I./St.G 2:

So, I would have them at Kerch IV until at least 30 April, and then afterwards move them to Bagerovo (if it's depicted) and keep them there until 31 May. 

 

II./St.G 2

So, Kerch IV from the beginning of campaign to the 2nd of July.

 

III./St. G 2:

So, Kerch IV from the beginning of campaign to the 1st of July.

Thank you very much, Luke! These are very valuable amendments.

So, we've next picture for the attack planes at Kuban

STG_BOK.jpg

 

I will begin to compare my tables to your and csThor's data for Stalingrad in the next few days. Thanks again)

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  • 1CGS

I have been thinking about transport campaigns and I must admit I am rather skeptical if they really should be part of a dynamic campaign. The reason is simple: The use of transport planes in a setting like the Kuban Bridgehead is vastly different from that in Operation "Typhoon" and vastly different than that during the Stalingrad Air Bridge.

 

Typhoon would see the player basically shuttle between the home base (i.e. Vyazma) and whatever forward landing strip the advancing forces have just managed to clear, taking supplies (mostly fuel and ammo) to the front and bringing wounded back so they can be transfered to a medical installation.

The Stalingrad airlift was specific in so far that the weather conditions usually were abysmal and the challenge would be found in navigation, flying in adverse weather, avoiding soviet AAA zones and fighters ... As the flights were organized as one-way-trips with a serious break between landing at Pitomnik and taking off back to Tazi or Moro (IIRC something like several hours) it wouldn't really be a round-trip but two separate flights per transport mission. I am sure such missions would be better to be embedded into a static campaign with specific storytelling because then individual missions can provide different challenges, their appearance (or not) can be tailor-made and the storytelling around the flights can create immersion. A dynamic campaign is not truly suited to such a task and I am afraid a larger number of missions for a transport pilot can become repetetive quite quickly.

 

Now, looking at Kuban, I pretty much doubt the value of having a transport campaign there at all. Why? Because it would be reduced to quick hops in between airfields on Crimea and Kuban, but the majority of such flights would habe gone from the crimean bases back to the major railheads like Kiev, taking back mail, wounded, soldiers on leave or officers on official trips back there and pick up high-value stuff like spare parts, fuel or whatever else may be needed a bit quicker than transport by rail can provide. That was the reality  for most of the transport units for most of the time - going back far into the hinterland to shuttle supplies and people back and forth. Since we lack the hinterland we can't really depict those missions.

Sorry, I can't answer you anything. I'm a historical consultant and designer of static missions and campaigns, I don't program such missions for career.

I'd make a static campaign for Ju 52 but it isn't interesting to me, I like fighters and attack planes...

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Thank you very much, Luke! These are very valuable amendments.

So, we've next picture for the attack planes at Kuban

 

I will begin to compare my tables to your and csThor's data for Stalingrad in the next few days. Thanks again)

 

No problem! I see you have added the Stab units to your tables, so I will go back through my sources and add any more info here that I can find.

Edited by LukeFF
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  • 1CGS

No problem! I see you have added the Stab units to your tables, so I will go back through my sources and add any more info here that I can find.

Yes, I'm making such tables for the missions and future static campaigns, not only for current work for new career. So, I need to know about all units in the area.

And please, check my info about SG 2 at Kuban in October if you can.

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So, we've next picture for the attack planes at Kuban

 

I noticed in this table that you have 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 1, 8.(Pz)/Sch.G 1, 4.(Pz)/Sch.G 2, and Pz.Jg.St./JG 51 at Kerch IV. All of my sources say they were at Kerch V

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Just a hint: The Geschwaderstäbe of the Stukageschwader mostly were just administrative units with attached (organic) recon flights equipped with aircraft like Bf 110 C-5/D-3/E-3 or Do 17P or M. They didn't really operate their own Stukas for the most part.

Edited by csThor
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Just a hint: The Geschwaderstäbe of the Stukageschwader mostly were just administrative units with attached (organic) recon planes like a Bf 110 or Do 17P or M. They didn't really operate their own Stukas for the most part.

 

I was thinking about that as well. Most of the tables I've seen show them having only 3 or so Ju 87s at any one time.

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