Tactical Air War

[Blakhart]

Omg...

 

Such a cool forum war without me... 

I`m getting old and boring...    

 

Someone plz hug me...    

 

 

Now you guys know what is the real OstFront   
No mercy.

[Willy__]

And the bragging begins. Im so proud of you guys winning the campaign. Even if it was done on dead hours with pratically no opposition. Wow. Much win. Very skill.

 

 

Seriously though, if you want to people listen to you, you should get off that high horse and stop the arrogancy and be a bit more humble. Jusr sayin

[[TWB]dillon_biz]

TFW

 

Tactical Forum War

 

Edit:

 

 

And the bragging begins. Im so proud of you guys winning the campaign. Even if it was done on dead hours with pratically no opposition. Wow. Much win. Very skill.


Seriously though, if you want to people listen to you, you should get off that high horse and stop the arrogancy and be a bit more humble. Jusr sayin

 

 

80hd' timestamp='1476368794' post='399833']  Pound for pound, 19.GIAP and =ART= are wholly more effective on average.  

 

????????

Edited October 13, 2016 by [TWB]dillon_biz

[Aap]

I mean... you know this is a forum, not the chat buffer in-game, right? Because I cannot fathom how you can say this and be serious, unless you've forgotten that you started the monkey-poo flinging at a squad rather than an individual.

That is strange, as it should not be that hard to understand. If someone as a person is pro (or against) chute killing, it shows his values and views or if a squad as a whole is pro chute killing, it shows the values of the squad in the same way on that matter. What is offensive in that statement? Maybe you have a moral dilemma that makes you react so strongly to this topic. Then your herd comes in packs against me and declare that "my squad" is on a crusade against your squad?

 

I won't even bother to answer the rest of your post, where you just try to pick another fight in totally unrelated topics.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

 

And the bragging begins. Im so proud of you guys winning the campaign. Even if it was done on dead hours with pratically no opposition. Wow. Much win. Very skill.

 

Both sides are doing this - last time was germans who took missions without opposition. 

[ACG_pezman]

After reading through this forum and the forums as Simulated Air Combat, the 19th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment (19.GIAP) have decided to adopt a new stance on this issue:

 

After careful consideration, we've decided to update our policy on chute killing in order to avoid unneccesary conflict and help foster this community, rather than divide it.  Winning via the "pilot deaths" metric is not worth the strife these recent discussions have caused, so we have implemented a policy forbidding chute killing for any reason. 

 

Those of you who like to chute kill, keep on keeping on.  We understand the purposes behind it on TAW.  We will not say a word about anyone, either axis or allied, who conducts themselves in this way on the TAW server.  This stupid discussion has caused far more problems for us, so no one need worry about being chute killed by the 19th.

 

S!

[Haza]

 

I mean... you know this is a forum, not the chat buffer in-game, right?  Because I cannot fathom how you can say this and be serious, unless you've forgotten that you started the monkey-poo flinging at a squad rather than an individual.

 

Your squad's lack of participation isn't a slam about participation, per se, nor is it a slam against your teammates at all, rather it simply begs the question: when were you jilted so hard in your short period of play that you decided to take up this crusade?

Your comeback is "NUH UH! YOU ARE!", and while that is indeed a powerful, tried and true, CLASSIC comeback, it doesn't really seem to work here... I showed you evidence of day one (well, technically day 2 since we're on the dark side of the planet) of TAW, right out of the gate, me getting massacred in my chute.  No one cried, no one whined, but some people on our side said "Oh, that's how it's going to be?" and decided to match tactics.

 

We can dance around the subject all we want, but the bottom line is that TWB drove objectives as Axis last game, with telling results, and drove objectives as Allied this game, again, with telling results.  Now, before someone throws a yellow flag, I am not at all trying to say that TWB won either of these maps.  We have a handful of really good pilots, a couple of solid tacticians, and a fairly large group that can sometimes be coaxed into following orders (I am neither of the former two, and only sometimes in the latter group, I just like to forum whore).  Pound for pound, 19.GIAP and =ART= are wholly more effective on average.

 

I say all that to say this:  You didn't protect your tanks, you didn't protect your airfields, you didn't protect your cities.

 

You can come and try to make this about video game honor (and you've clearly got a small but devoted following supporting you in this effort) and how shooting at bailed out 3d models is rude, and you can come and try to make this about how TWB gets sore when some Axis fighters refuse to actually participate in a Tactical Air War, and sometimes engages in robust and less than polite discourse in conveying this displeasure.

 

These are both points based in fact, with some level of merit.

 

However, neither of those avenues are going to result in addressing the underlying root-issue here:  the red, irritated nethers caused by an ego crushing 0 - 4 map deficit.

 

I'm not even talking smack here, sincerely.  If I was on a team that had been paddled like a naughty little cookie-making tree elf four times in a row, without a single notable reprisal, I know my morale would be crushed.  

 

Don't stop the honor crusade, or the "TWB whines when we refuse to fight even though we are flying the planes with all the cards in our favor" initiative... those paths have been well-cultivated, and may indeed bear some valuable fruit at some time in the future... but my advice?  Leave like one, maybe two guys on that front.

 

The rest, you're gonna want them to suit up, light those fires and kick those tires and get out there and dance.

 

Because unless you start killing our tanks, and our airfields, and stop us from doing the same to yours, this rustling is only going to intensify.  You're gonna have to get Zebra back in here to stream-snipe planes forming up on runways... is that what we want to be reduced to again?

 

0 - 4 ladies.... the power to turn this steamroll around is in YOUR hands.

 

This can be you, gents:

 

 

But you're going to have to believe in yourself, work together, and drive both the defense and the offense of the objectives on the ground.

 

 

 

{TWB]80hd

 

I realise that your post is directed at Kemp, however, I bought this game to be entertained and care little if I win or lose, although I always try to do the best I can and always try different aspects of the game. I have recently noticed that when trying to join the TAW server in my time zone and at a time that is convenient for me, this sever has not only been a little one sided but almost at the point where there has been a 6:1 advantage to the other side (I'm currently playing Luftwaffe).  Therefore, I now look at the TAW website to see who is playing and decide whether I can be bothered to play, so my time in game shouldn't make my discussion or views less relevant. Thankfully, having been involved in real conflicts and having seen friends killed, I’m not forced to play this game when I see little entertainment value for myself and have gone and done other things, something that I have not been able to do. 

 

Whether you believe that it was your team that has caused the current winning situation or even your team that lead to the previous winning situation (not a yellow flag), I for one do not really care, neither do I belong to a team that cares, so I’m not losing sleep worrying about rolling a map and thankfully and  more importantly no little cooking tree elves have been harmed at my expense.  For me personally, seeing a friend killed in action and then watching their coffin being loaded onto an aircraft's rear ramp had a greater demoralising effect on me, than a crushing 4-0 defeat in a computer game, which has done little to stir me.   

 

I will not “dance around the subject” and will be the first to acknowledge that your team  has clearly shown that if you get enough like minded players together you can co-ordinate attacks etc and certainly winning is what the TAW server is about and your team has excelled at this.  However, I’m not sure not that all groups can muster the numbers that your group can nor perhaps do they gauge their success by the stats or by winning, even if you believe that this is or should be the case.  In addition, it is obvious from numerous posts that trying to get individuals to co-ordinate attacks is rather a fruitless exercise as each player has their own agenda.  I certainly enjoy playing in a small group with a few guys and if they are not around I just do not play.  Therefore it is obvious that those who can muster a large enough group to prosecute attacks in this server should have greater success than those of a lesser numbered group or of a few individuals working in isolation or not co-ordinated.

 

I’m pleased that you appear to have found something that makes you so passionate and gives you a sense of being better than others and that belonging to a team has given you such fulfillment.  It certainly is rewarding when working in a team/group to see that doing things together can make a difference.  I’m all in favour of banter, teasing and chest beating to try and get others or even other teams motivated into action and I really hope that this is the under lying intention of all your posts rather than any real malicious intent.  However, the fact remains that if you annoy enough players for long enough you may not only just *iss them off, but more importantly they may no longer want to play against you or even perhaps others you are associated with. If this were to happen how would you be able to 'bench mark' yourself or your team against another team if you were to play on your own as surely a game needs a minimum of 2 sides to be any fun and to show that you are the best?

 

Although your team might be the best at a, b or even c, and certainly the stats within TAW certainly reflect the fact that your team does well, the recent leadership displayed by the 19.GIAP to adopt a style of play that does not deliberately antagonise even a potentially minority group of players in this community (even if no rules are being broken),  for me clearly demonstrates a team that has both integrity and moral courage to take the lead in altering its playing style, even if it comes at the expense of not winning all of the time.  Therefore, being the best team in a gaming situation does not necessarily mean that you are the better team! 

 

My views are my own personal views, however, I’m certainly not advocating that your team should stop trying to win, but surely all players or teams can be humble in being victorious and gracious in defeat?  This is perhaps the reputation that I would want to have rather than any other, but I do not think that two wrongs make a right (OK, being an Engineer I know that it is possible) , however, this apparent bickering really needs to stop.

 

To finish off,  I  would therefore humbly request that all players who may be reading this to stop the never ending and pointless backwards and forwards debate that we know is going nowhere and perhaps focus our efforts in uniting our community in something that we all realise is a bloody great sim and at least know when to back away from a pointless discussion that we all now know only leads to nowhere.  Owing to the fact that I'm married, I do this on a regularly basis! 

 

Regards 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Haza

[[TWB]80hd]

 

 

????????

 

 

I meant that they are doing what they are doing with 1/3 the pilots, and their ground attack focus is consistent across the board/each member is carrying their weight (yes, shut up hahahaha I have way more than 6 kills, I just flew alone so I never made it back to base)

[ESCOMM_FlyMaker]

"The project "Random Expert +" uses a flexible mechanism based on the reference points scattered around the map, transitions between them are given under certain conditions, and thus the players on the server directly affect the movement of the front line in different parts of the map."

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/page-4?do=findComment&comment=399741

That is not the same thing we have on TAW?

[ACG_Invictus]

I've killed a chute. Just one. I did it partly because of the reasons noted by Pand, but mostly out of boredom because the server is barely populated with Germans when I fly. When I left this evening it was 18 Russians on 2 Germans. That equates to the fun I get from watching grass grow....

 

Flew around for a while tonight in a MiG3. Finally found a Stuka to kill. Shot him up, killed his rear gunner, smoked his engine, pulled up and around to finish him off....and a LA comes swoops in and gets the kill with a short burst to finish the engine off. Thought it was an outstanding d___ move at the time and said as much....but upon reflection the LA pilot was probably as bored as I was so I kind of understand.

 

Please consider allowing some kind of side switching next go around. Maybe limit it to once per campaign and put a penalty on it where the pilot loses all kills or something. Those of us in the U.S. will bless you for it.

 

o7

[=ARTOA=Bubi87]

I Guess there is nothing on our hand to stop the steamroll. Again 2 Airfield lost during only one night.

 

No matter how good we fight during day, only 8 night hours are enough and the whole "day-progress" is lost again.

 

Its really kind of frustrating at the moment. 

[Trinkof]

"The project "Random Expert +" uses a flexible mechanism based on the reference points scattered around the map, transitions between them are given under certain conditions, and thus the players on the server directly affect the movement of the front line in different parts of the map."

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/page-4?do=findComment&comment=399741

 

That is not the same thing we have on TAW?

Front line moves far less than in TAW ... Preventing I suppose the winning of a map by a bunch of player in afternoon hours.

 

And only player action move the front line, no tank advancing if not stopped.

 

But it seem to be the same mechanics.

Edited October 14, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[[TWB]kl0udy-]

Think this discussion is pointless in general, since the arguments from both sides do not revolve around the same point

 

On one hand you have people playing for the immersion aspect, so the game for them is a mixture of role-play and sim - of course they do not chute kill b/c they would not do the same thing in reality, hence the moral standard.

 

Others view it as a game, that they want to win - simple as that, like Super Mario (no one thinks of the moral consequence of jumping on those poor turtles, right?).

 

People saying that chute killers have no honor etc. do not consider the point that they are lacking the immersion aspect. That's not a question of moral standards. They just have a different perception of the game. I like the immersion too, but making chute killing a question of moral integrity is flawed reasoning and unfair.

well said.. 

[HR_Tumu]

Really steiger, u think red only win for numbers?? 

[216th_Jordan]

I personally am not a fan of too close war simulation. You will not want to simulate the millions of civilians dying under german occupation. So the question is, how real do you want to get?

 

If shooting a defensless person in a chute seems good to you, well, so be it. But we are not in war but in a game, trying to have fun with others, so how to have fun for yourself AND for others might be a question worth asking too.

 

The server makes the overall choices but in the end it comes down to the individual when there is no rule.

Edited October 14, 2016 by 216th_Jordan

[Trinkof]

I personally am not a fan of too close war simulation. You will not want to simulate the millions of civilians dying under german occupation. So the question is, how real do you want to get?

 

If shooting a defensless person in a chute seems good to you, well, so be it. But we are not in war but in a game, trying to have fun with others, so how to have fun for yourself AND for others might be a question worth asking too.

 

The server makes the overall choices but in the end it comes down to the individual when there is no rule.

The whole debate is IMO caused by the server rules to count a number of pilot. The chute killing is actually encouraged by the rules in some way...

 

Which is not surprising at all.... I have not so good memories of a famous LG member a year or more ago... Making streak of chute killing on server where it served no purpose beside tea bagging, and who answered in chat by insulting everyone, like a 10 year kid, and writing "this is ostfront" like a broken disk , to justify his actions.... This guy just wanted to be in top score , and chute killed everyone to deny the points in il2 stats...

 

And no, it is not immersive .... It is just toxic behaviour... Just the kind of childish behaviour , like tea bagging, I hoped not to see encouraged in Sim community.

 

Remembering all this, I am not surprised to see this discussion on this specific server.

[=LG/F=Kathon]

"The project "Random Expert +" uses a flexible mechanism based on the reference points scattered around the map, transitions between them are given under certain conditions, and thus the players on the server directly affect the movement of the front line in different parts of the map."

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/page-4?do=findComment&comment=399741

 

That is not the same thing we have on TAW?

Every MP campaign is similar because next map is generated based on events on previous one. But they have been supported by developers for many many months. They even got additional tool from devs that I or other server's admins have no idea. I haven't received any answer from support and answers to may questions related to logs files etc from Questions to developer topic were useless.

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Guys, we introduced pilots limitation on the map because pilots were valuable as well (aircraft is useless without pilot). Pilots are lost if got captured or killed by AA or other airplane. 

 

We will consider forbidding chute killing. I hope there will be easy way to detect such situations in log files because I will not be able to analyze manually reports from you that someone did chute kill. I hope you understand it. 

[LeLv8_Otto]

We will consider forbidding chute killing. I hope there will be easy way to detect such situations in log files

If you find it put it on the stats too?

 

Why not limit each virtual pilot lives to 3 per map? We had a discussion yesterday in TS about that feature and it would make it more real if each virtual pilot is accountable for their virtual lives. When you die e.g. 3rd time in one map you are banned till next map/round begins?

Edited October 14, 2016 by LeLv8_Otto

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

 

 

I hope there will be easy way to detect such situations in log files

Would the time between last damage to the actual aircraft by an attacker and the "cparachute" being damaged not work?

 

Something like 10 seconds should be enough in most cases to identify if it was accidental or not.

[kileab]

When you die e.g. 3rd time in one map you are banned till next map/round begins?

 

Oooh good thinking, very user friendly... Let's play on a server where you get banned because you die...

[Trinkof]

Coop mod will solve those issue hopefully : 1 pilot, 1 aircraft... Point.

[5.AA_WiSiPunK]

Its so poor, that some people offending TWB for following the rules and accepting the Gamelogic (counting pilot kills) in order to win. They should go play Tennis or Football if they really want fairplay. This is War, and its not "any" war, it was the most devastating and probably the one that had less moral, especially on eastern Front. Look at the History and see how many fairplay there was in it. And if u want Moral than DONT play war, so easy it is. Go on a Pylon-Racing server, there u can hang safe in your sweet Chutes and dream of your War-wonderland...

And i declare, that i will shoot every Chute i can get. Just because i want to win. If some people not want to, they should think about leaving the server. Next Campaign we will play for axis, but i not want a kind of team that wants to lose, because of beeing not smart enough to understand the Game, accept it or not (and take the consequence to leave)

 

Go on TWB i am with u...

 

sry for my very great english, but i am only a Katoshka

Edited October 14, 2016 by 5.AA_WiSiPunK

[LeLv8_Otto]

Oooh good thinking, very user friendly... Let's play on a server where you get banned because you die...

Look at stats - pilots do not die that much in general. After 4 maps there are only 16 pilots with more than 12 deaths (capture not included) so it wouldn't propably be a show stopper, but something you need take into account when flying too risky alone etc.

Edited October 14, 2016 by LeLv8_Otto

[XQ_Lothar29]

I was very happy with Tactical Air War the other editions, but this, not that happened, but something is malfunctioning.

so I do not have fun

 

I know they are just words, but if you look at my statistics from the campaign and watch the last this, are entirely black and white

 

or me, I am no longer the person I was, I will ask my girlfriend.  

or something changed within this magnificent campaign

 

I do not want to put bad name on this matter, but long ago I could mention

 

I think that developers would consider putting some active surveillance system cheating

 

Salute Friends

Edited October 14, 2016 by =3./JG3=Lothar29

[ESCOMM_FlyMaker]

If you find it put it on the stats too?

 

Why not limit each virtual pilot lives to 3 per map? We had a discussion yesterday in TS about that feature and it would make it more real if each virtual pilot is accountable for their virtual lives. When you die e.g. 3rd time in one map you are banned till next map/round begins?

This is one of my ideas to the next campaing. I think 1 live per map is enough! Lowering mission time to 1 hr should make target choices a strategy key.

 

We have to punish dead and this is a good way to do that. Kicking people on dead will provide chance to other players join and make air superiority more interesting.

 

My other idea is put 50 slots on server and increase ground targets.

Edited October 14, 2016 by ESCOMM_FlyMaker

[[TWB]Elgonidas]

I Guess there is nothing on our hand to stop the steamroll. Again 2 Airfield lost during only one night.

 

No matter how good we fight during day, only 8 night hours are enough and the whole "day-progress" is lost again.

 

Its really kind of frustrating at the moment.

We took Gromo with equal teams.

 

We ran two capture flights there, then made a semi coordinated strike on a defensive position near Surovkino. Axis actually finished off the first wave of tanks in the last 10 minutes of that mission. The second wave survived, and on the next mission, Axis was down to 5 or so pilots and couldn't finish the column off.

Edited October 14, 2016 by [TWB]Elgonidas

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Guys, we introduced pilots limitation on the map because pilots were valuable as well (aircraft is useless without pilot). Pilots are lost if got captured or killed by AA or other airplane.

 

We will consider forbidding chute killing. I hope there will be easy way to detect such situations in log files because I will not be able to analyze manually reports from you that someone did chute kill. I hope you understand it.

I wouldn't forbidd it. But add a penalty. In reality killing unarmed enemies came at a price first psychological but second many commanders condemned the practise. 'If I see somebody shooting a chute I kill him by myself". (Jg27 in stiglers book)

 

Maybe add a chance that the pilot is grounded(ditched plane). But don't forbidd it.

[ESCOMM_FlyMaker]

I wouldn't forbidd it. But add a penalty. In reality killing unarmed enemies came at a price first psychological but second many commanders condemned the practise. 'If I see somebody shooting a chute I kill him by myself". (Jg27 in stiglers book)

 

Maybe add a chance that the pilot is grounded(ditched plane). But don't forbidd it.

You can increase the capture chance based on fairplay.

[Willy__]

I agree Lothar, I have the impression that capturing airfields became easier in this edition.

 

I know its just words but its the feeling that I get.

[SCG_happy_meal]

This is one of my ideas to the next campaing. I think 1 live per map is enough! Lowering mission time to 1 hr should make target choices a strategy key.

 

We have to punish dead and this is a good way to do that. Kicking people on dead will provide chance to other players join and make air superiority more interesting.

 

My other idea is put 50 slots on server and increase ground targets.

 And no one would fly the stuka anymore, 37mm in the back is a insta kill. 

[ESCOMM_FlyMaker]

 And no one would fly the stuka anymore, 37mm in the back is a insta kill. 

Fly together, call for cover. This have to be the main task on campaign, cooperation!

 

I aways fly IL-2's and i dont like to die even without kick/temp ban. Yesterday i got 3 stukas over tanks without escort. 2 down! 1 run away because i lost my cannons. Stuka Gunners are very good alone imagine together.

 

 

 

 

I agree Lothar, I have the impression that capturing airfields became easier in this edition.

 

I know its just words but its the feeling that I get.

I agree too. Capture fields is very easy

 

Disable fields is much easier too. 100% of damage is reached too fast.

 

__

 

Deathmatch missions allow moving objects on ground?

[Angus]

Why not just one life per day ? is even more realistic !

 

24 Slots the complete map and 2000 ground targets !!!!

 

I´m sorry but after 8 hours work i would still have fun on TAW.

 

Correct error must be punished,but not exaggerate.....just because here 15% hardcor pilots are traveling

[ESCOMM_FlyMaker]

Why not just one life per day ? is even more realistic !

 

24 Slots the complete map and 2000 ground targets !!!!

 

I´m sorry but after 8 hours work i would still have fun on TAW.

 

Correct error must be punished,but not exaggerate.....just because here 15% hardcor pilots are traveling

Angus think more about the penalty!

 

When you die (Maybe 2 times to be fair enouth) you get banned for current mission. If the mission have 1 hour you will only be away from the battlefield for few minutes. 2 missions is all we need in 1 our rotation

[Angus]

The server is great, makes him now only not broken by overstepped settings 

[[TWB]Pand]

Remember guys, the point of PK is to drive the loss of that pilot's combat mission count (preventing more aircraft to be resupplied), and stop the repair of that pilot's ditched aircraft (resulting in the loss of those aircraft), and lastly to drive the pilot attrition war.

 

If those three items are changed in the TAW rules, that removes the purpose of the PK, and then everyone here can move on to the next unwarranted complaint.

[XQ_Lothar29]

something very important and nobody says.

 

when you got the wrong plane or a bomb, it gives you an alternative to leave the plane and grab another, but the 15 seconds that gives the server once you press escape

to solve is not enough and it always ends kicked.

 

I think solution would increase the output time when you want to change planes

[kileab]

I agree with that.

And I think it kicks you no matter what.

Edited October 14, 2016 by -IRRE-Biluf

[Geleitzug]

It's funny to read all the comments regarding chute killing in the game and the reference to it's closeness to reality - and on the other hand the whining about being outnumbered by the Reds... come on, what could be closer to reality than being outnumbered by the Soviets in January '43 in Stalingrad ???

[Angus]

Chute killing.............Who needs such a thing? Is the one tail extension?

 

I apologize for that...........Do not understand it.

 

Destroys only the community.

 

Whoever needs it is to knock on the shoulder