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Battle of Berlin

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Was 190 easier to fly than the 109? Or it was a lot more, let`s say...insidious?

 

Everything I've ever read about the 190 indicates that it was indeed, an easier ride for the average pilot than the 109.  However, for reasons that remain 'unclear', this state of affairs has been turned on it's head in the game.  The 190 has become a specialist (masochistic) ride in flight sims whereas the 109 is widely regarded as a 'weapon of choice'.   If you compare Eric Brown's flight notes on the two aircraft it becomes very clear that in his opinion (as a combat test pilot with unparalleled experience, and someone who, unlike the devs, actually flew the two aircraft), the 190 was a much more formidable proposition.  And why wouldn't it be.  After all, the 109 was one of the very first of the all-metal monoplane fighters to enter service in the 1930's whereas the 190 came later and built on that experience and the lessons learned from air combat in Spain. Interestingly, at no stage does Eric Brown caution against one-on-one combat in the 190.  In his opinion the 190 was quite simply a much better fighter; faster more responsive and maneuverable with a much faster rate of roll than the 109 which, in Eric Brown's view, was already starting to show it's age by 1942.  Some of these discrepancies possibly come down to difficulties modeling the benefits of things like the 'kommandogerat' but this doesn't explain everything.  Remember, the devs initially attempted to sell us a 190 model with a cockpit layout that was quite simply wrong.  We weren't told that it was a transitional thing or a place-holder or anything like that and If people hadn't complained bitterly, we'd probably still be flying that travesty to this day.  So, do I believe the 190 is modeled correctly in the game - no I don't.  If the devs couldn't (and still can't it seems) model the cockpit framing (the bar) correctly, what confidence can we really have in their ability to deliver an accurate FM.

 

I hope this doesn't sound bitter.. :biggrin:

Edited by Wulf

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Oh, look, a thread about the next theater is about down to how the 190 isn't as uber as some swear it is. And the bar, always the bar.

  • Upvote 3

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This is a pretty interesting thread…  Elf I know why you would like to see a Pacific theater added and I too to a degree however, it was mentioned before…  after about 43 the Japanese planes can’t really keep up with their American counterparts.   This is what killed the population on most Pacific focused servers in the original IL2.   Early to about mid war it’s a great matchup.

 

As much as like to see historically accurate setups the reality is this is entertainment software.   Nobody wants to take 2 hours of flying to mix it up.  It also has to be popular for people to want to show up on a server.  What I have learned over the years from the map makers is it’s a delicate balance hence why some of these aren’t historical setups.

 

What was nice about the Original modded versions of the games was the addition of AI aircraft which really helped flesh out the size and nature of these battles.  Even with 70 guys on yesterday it’s pretty sparse over Stalingrad. I hope the devs can continue to improve upon what we have.  Also with Oculus Rift around the corner I may be focused on titles which can support the technology.

Edited by 14./JG5CaptStubing

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I was in a bar once. Got pretty drunk let me tell you ......

 

 

Actually, you may have just inadvertently stumbled into a BoS 190.  They come with a bar already fitted.  

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Actually, you may have just inadvertently stumbled into a BoS 190.  They come with a bar already fitted.  

 

Classic!... I almost choked on my cuppa  :biggrin:

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Wolf are you comparing with the A model that never saw service , Because I talk about the Dora that did see service .

 

Anyway I hope we get all the goodies from early to mid war before we head on for the 45 equipment. I promise I will spend time and get that 109 and Dora up in the air in DCS one time one way or the other. 

 

I feel we got a simulator attempting to do those planes

Edited by EG14_LuseKofte

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Battle of Malta. that would be cool. the map should include parts of Sicily and Africa.should be possible considering that a huge part of the map would be ocean.

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Battle of Malta. that would be cool. the map should include parts of Sicily and Africa.should be possible considering that a huge part of the map would be ocean.

Good luck trying to get people to fly that distance every mission, either in MP or even SP at 2x time compression.

Edited by Finkeren

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Perhaps it could come with Battle of Berlin 1940-1941, where you take Wellingtons, Hampdens and DB-3s to drop an insignificant amount of bombs over Berlin at night after flying for five hours, praying that you hit something :)

 

At this point any theatre that isn't tactical by nature is a really long shot since it alienates just about everyone who can't put five hours into it regularly. Yes, people would fly crazy distances in MSFS but you could hit the autopilot there and most importantly there was nobody trying to kill you along the way.

 

Long-range bombing really isn't most people's cup of tea, the fact is the best-selling and most accessible stuff is at tactical bombing, strike and fighter flights.

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Everything I've ever read about the 190 indicates that it was indeed, an easier ride for the average pilot than the 109. However, for reasons that remain 'unclear', this state of affairs has been turned on it's head in the game. The 190 has become a specialist (masochistic) ride in flight sims whereas the 109 is widely regarded as a 'weapon of choice'. If you compare Eric Brown's flight notes on the two aircraft it becomes very clear that in his opinion (as a combat test pilot with unparalleled experience, and someone who, unlike the devs, actually flew the two aircraft), the 190 was a much more formidable proposition. And why wouldn't it be. After all, the 109 was one of the very first of the all-metal monoplane fighters to enter service in the 1930's whereas the 190 came later and built on that experience and the lessons learned from air combat in Spain. Interestingly, at no stage does Eric Brown caution against one-on-one combat in the 190. In his opinion the 190 was quite simply a much better fighter; faster more responsive and maneuverable with a much faster rate of roll than the 109 which, in Eric Brown's view, was already starting to show it's age by 1942. Some of these discrepancies possibly come down to difficulties modeling the benefits of things like the 'kommandogerat' but this doesn't explain everything. Remember, the devs initially attempted to sell us a 190 model with a cockpit layout that was quite simply wrong. We weren't told that it was a transitional thing or a place-holder or anything like that and If people hadn't complained bitterly, we'd probably still be flying that travesty to this day. So, do I believe the 190 is modeled correctly in the game - no I don't. If the devs couldn't (and still can't it seems) model the cockpit framing (the bar) correctly, what confidence can we really have in their ability to deliver an accurate FM.

 

I hope this doesn't sound bitter.. :biggrin:

Preach it!

 

I know it's not a popular position to hold, but I really look forward to the day we can work our way west. It'll increase the player base considerably (customers who are paying full price mind you, not an "adjusted" price) and mid-war Western Europe is awesome. People keep saying that we've been there done that, but the original IL2 really just gave us the aircraft with maps that looked like we were still flying over Russia. And while DCS is great and all, it's not really a comprehensive "experience."

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I still think Kursk is the next logical step.  That be said, I've thought about what I would like after expansion #3 and Operation Pointblank would be amazing if done correctly.  Of course the engine would need some serious work before that could happen but it sounds like the devs are working on a plan to upgrade.  We are just going to have to wait and see!

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The med has all the western planes we crave, during the mid war period, in a tactical environment rather than strategic bombing.

Just flipping do it for the love of all that is good!

I tire of the east, give me balmy Italy!

Edited by forsale

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I still think Kursk is the next logical step.  That be said, I've thought about what I would like after expansion #3 and Operation Pointblank would be amazing if done correctly.  Of course the engine would need some serious work before that could happen but it sounds like the devs are working on a plan to upgrade.  We are just going to have to wait and see!

Yes, we need to see progress. Not just bringing in new planes and maps, but also new features and engine optimisations.

About Kursk I would like it aswell - though I`d need to make sure we`d train the right team to make that Tiger batallion function like it should! :ph34r:

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