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These statements are only showing the difference in a flight simmer and a gamer. Feathered is a true simmer and those not understanding him are gamers, treating this and other sims like it is Counterstrike . So getting into a discussion about this is like one writing in Cyrillic and the other in English. 

 

Sorry, but that is ridiculous nonsense.  I want them to simulate the environment as closely as possible.  He wants them to simulate the fear, which is not possible.

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Ты прав. :)

 

Seriously speaking though, I think for something so open-ended like a flight sim it's possible to cater for everyone. The devs are working on campaign features to please the immersion fellas which is also being done by the online coop crowd, while it's possible to go trigger-happy online and practice gunnery offline for those who prefer that. And with a variety of servers and PWCG, it's possible to cater for anyone in between.

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Sorry, but that is ridiculous nonsense. I want them to simulate the environment as closely as possible. He wants them to simulate the fear, which is not possible.

I deliberately never mentioned fear. You must have read that elsewhere. I doubt that that would be possible too.

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Unlike some, I have no interest, at all, in pretending to be a fighter jock and trying to re-live 'the experience'.

It's obvious you have no interest in being anything like a fighter pilot. For one thing, in the military, there are these things called 'manners', and 'respect', that are shown to people.

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I deliberately never mentioned fear. You must have read that elsewhere. I doubt that that would be possible too.

 

The things you mentioned are impossible to recreate without fear.  Completely and totally impossible.

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Gee Jim I dunno.  I was walking past, saw the sign, assumed it was a gay bar and just came on in.  How about you big boy? 

 

I came for the refined wit and stayed for the innuendo.

 

But seriously, you have to be emulating a real pilot in some way to have any measure of succes in this game. It's unavoidable.

The things you mentioned are impossible to recreate without fear.  Completely and totally impossible.

 

Of course it's not possible to recreate the actual fear of death without breaking several international laws but it is possible to create fear of loss. It's a common gaming mechanic to make a player lose their progress upon death in some way.

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Of course it's not possible to recreate the actual fear of death without breaking several international laws but it is possible to create fear of loss. It's a common gaming mechanic to make a player lose their progress upon death in some way.

 

 

Of course you can, but that isn't what he's asking for.

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...or maybe you've misinterpreted what he's asking for.

 

I doubt it.  The gaming mechanism that you described is already available.

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The things you mentioned are impossible to recreate without fear.  Completely and totally impossible.

Books film and television can do it. So can video games. The trick is not to create fear but attachment.

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Finland map baby!

 

Brewster Buffaloes and all manor of crap planes on a glorius map! I can feel it in my bones!

 

Dont let me down Dev's!!

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What I most want is the experience of being there.  

 

Fear is the driving force behind being at war.  Period.

 

 

A game that works hard to capture the mood of the times gives you a real sense of being a part of those events. 

 

War is often described as interminable boredom punctuated by moments of terror.  We already have the interminable boredom covered with the never ending FM debates. 

 

 

The Battle of France, with an emphasis on the chaos, the paranoia, disorganisation, apathy and wasted heroism.  The Battle of Britain with the uncertainty, overwhelming odds, hectic squadron life and international cast.  The uncompromising pressure from Command during the Battle of Stalingrad, or the hopeless shambles in defence of the Far East.  I want to feel something of what it was to be young and at war and embedded in those times.  Surely I can't be alone in this?

 

There is no substitute for actual fear.  And you're always going to be disappointed if you want a game to recreate the emotions felt during these events.

Books film and television can do it. So can video games. The trick is not to create fear but attachment.

 

I've never read a single book or watched a movie that made me feel like I was in combat.  I feel a lot closer to being in combat playing a game like RoF or BoS, and I still don't feel that close.  And it's tough to get people who are constantly looking for things that ruin their "immersion" to feel attachment. 

Edited by BraveSirRobin

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The thing that makes me feel the most like being in combat has nothing to do with authentic sounding radio chatter, really good AI (which will never act human, no matter how many hours of programming time is involved), lots of ground units, or really good graphics.  It's the challenge of "fighting" against other people.  Whether I'm with a flight of 4 going against a similar group of other people at 4k, or scissoring just above the trees, it's the challenge of surviving the fight.  If you don't enjoy that challenge, then you're going to get bored no matter what kind of "immersion" features they add.

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Fear is the driving force behind being at war.  Period.

 

That's one for the academics. What if I take something by force because I have no fear of significant retaliation? If I'm being driven to action by the absence of fear it's logical to conclude that my primary motivation must come from another source right?

 

Anyway, back to the topic. I still think the Crimean Peninsula is the best bet and that a New Guinea expansion would be a great intro to the Pacific. There is plenty of scope for prolonged development in both theaters.

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That's one for the academics. What if I take something by force because I have no fear of significant retaliation? If I'm being driven to action by the absence of fear it's logical to conclude that my primary motivation must come from another source right?

 

If you don't have fear while you are in combat then you're probably not going to survive very long.

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I doubt it. The gaming mechanism that you described is already available.

BSR, it's Christmas day. Don't you have anything better to do than being your usual antagonistic self?

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It's obvious you have no interest in being anything like a fighter pilot. For one thing, in the military, there are these things called 'manners', and 'respect', that are shown to people.

 

I have four words for you 'cobber': 'Rugby World Cup Final'.

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I have four words for you 'cobber': 'Rugby World Cup Final'.

Why should I care about some sweaty men kicking around a pig's bladder to win a golden drinking vessel that they'll never use? :P

Edited by Cybermat47

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I have four words for you 'cobber': 'Rugby World Cup Final'.

 

Isn't that the game where they throw the ball backwards to move it forwards? You're mainly playing against Queenslanders if that is the case, I doubt they have the mental faculties to grasp the mechanics. Try explaining the rules to them very slowly and using small words.

 

Always preferred cricket myself, when are you blokes going to win a world cup in that? Nothing since 1975, very slow.

Edited by JimmyBlonde

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If I ever see P47 or Spitfire in this game I will literally mess my self up :)

I'd love to see a cannon-armed Spit and P-47. They'd mess German supply columns up, and be formidable foes in the air :biggrin:

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I'd love to see a cannon-armed Spit and P-47. They'd mess German supply columns up, and be formidable foes in the air :biggrin:

 

 

Both happen to be Lend lease Aircraft for the VVS...just sayin...

 

Anyone for a lend-lease plane pack?

 

Spit Vb

B-25

DB-7

Hurricane

P-47

 

?

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Isn't that the game where they throw the ball backwards to move it forwards? You're mainly playing against Queenslanders if that is the case, I doubt they have the mental faculties to grasp the mechanics. Try explaining the rules to them very slowly and using small words.

 

Always preferred cricket myself, when are you blokes going to win a world cup in that? Nothing since 1975, very slow.

 

OMG, talk about the cheek of Ned Kelly!!  I can't believe you'd have the nerve to mention the bloody cricket ya no good underarm bowling bastid...

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Both happen to be Lend lease Aircraft for the VVS...just sayin...

Ooh, that's good news :)

 

Anyone for a lend-lease plane pack?

 

Spit Vb

B-25

DB-7

Hurricane

P-47

 

?

P-39, for sure :biggrin:

 

The RAF actually operated Hurris on the from Murmansk for a few months, so that would be cool to see.

 

The RAAF operated some Hampdens from Murmansk for one or two sorties, too. I doubt that would justify it's inclusion, though.

 

I also recall hearing of some USAAF B-17s being temporarily stationed on the Eastern Front, and possibly some P-51s. Not sure of that, though, so don't take my word for it :)

Edited by Cybermat47

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They did some raids from Soviet bases. I don't know the specifics but they would do a raid from the West, land in the Soviet base to rearm, repair and refuel, then go back while dropping bombs on the way. Coordination was lacking sometimes, like that incident where Kozhedub and Titarenko went off to escort a damaged B-17 back home and were bounced by two P-51s which continued attacking to the point that they had to shoot them Dow .

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To the people say that Western Europe/Italy is over done, what game? IL-2 never officially covered it besides a few fighters and two bombers, Janes did in 1997, MCFS did in 2002, what flight simulator has covered it since in the past 15 years?

 

And don't mention DCS because only 3 aircraft fighting over Georgia is pathetic.

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Il-2 1946 has quite a wide selection and if you factor in mods it's done to death, Cliffs of Dover covers Western Europe and is being expanded with mods including MTO, DCS will actually add a Normandy and Corsica map and there is a Stuka, a P-40F, Spitfire, Fw-190A-8 and a lot of other stuff in development... Meanwhile, the Eastern Front is only covered in the old and new Il-2. Yes, the Eastern Front has the best teams in the market, but you need to understand that these guys are a team of passionate people from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and other countries who know a lot about, well, the Eastern Front. It's logical that they will do the war that they know, just like you want the one you know :)

 

If you start to factor in what people make in movies, books and all that, you have overwhelming numbers towards the Western Front.

 

But then again, it's logical that things will eventually spread out and everyone will be happy. :)

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To the people say that Western Europe/Italy is over done, what game? IL-2 never officially covered it besides a few fighters and two bombers, Janes did in 1997, MCFS did in 2002, what flight simulator has covered it since in the past 15 years?

.

What we should be asking is: How many WW2 flight sims have there been in the past 15 years that weren't either IL2 or a derivative?

 

If a developer want to step up and make a Western Europe 1943-45 flight sim, I will be overjoyed and gladly buy in.

 

I just can't see, why the IL2 series, which is about the Eastern Front (the clue is in the title) is under some kind of obligation to make up for the general lack of sims by abandoning its focus to satisfy some western simmers who apparently can't be bothered to fly anything that doesn't start with a "P-" or a "B-"?

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I just can't see, why the IL2 series, which is about the Eastern Front (the clue is in the title) is under some kind of obligation to make up for the general lack of sims by abandoning its focus to satisfy some western simmers who apparently can't be bothered to fly anything that doesn't start with a "P-" or a "B-"?

 

They're not obliged to but people want it from them because nobody else is willing to step up to the plate. Not for almost 20 years. The most overdone theater in flight simulation is actually the Eastern Front right now.

 

If I want to fly something starting with a "P" or a "B" I have to play in Windows 98 compatibility mode or Dosbox.

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To the people say that Western Europe/Italy is over done, what game? IL-2 never officially covered it besides a few fighters and two bombers, Janes did in 1997, MCFS did in 2002, what flight simulator has covered it since in the past 15 years?

And don't mention DCS because only 3 aircraft fighting over Georgia is pathetic.

Well, Western Europe was covered in Cliffs of Dover, but that's it. And it only covered July-Mid September 1940.

 

And looking to the future, DCS is getting a Normandy map (but sadly no Luftwaffe aircraft to go with it until 2017). That's just official stuff of course, but judging from your post, that's all you're counting.

 

While I'm loving the Eastern Front, I'd love a Western Front game, specifically focusing on USAAF/Bomber Command raids into Germany and Occupied Europe. Crewing a Lancaster and fighting off Uhus would be great!

Edited by Cybermat47
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Eastern front is not finished.  The last gen aircraft of 1945 are barely relevant to the eastern front.  Make a 43 and 44 set and the eastern front is covered,

 

Night combat: don't know if that would sell or not but one has to admit that it would be something different.  Very, very different way of flying and fighting.  More cerebral and less reflexive,

 

Med, BoB, and the eternally neglected channel front are very nice match ups.  How about western front tactical operations?  Forget the heavies and focus on the ground pounders.  P-47, P-38, Typhoon, FW-190 F and G.  Much more in the sweet spot of this product.

 

Pacific: IMHO rapidly becomes uninteresting after Midway.  US technology just vastly outstrips Japanese in 1943.  Oscar against a Hellcat?  Suicidal.

 

Western front strategic: also a slaughter for the last year of the war.  Also very hard to model.  To really get a feel it requires huge numbers of aircraft in the air.  Might be doable if the heavies were unflyable and worked on a simplified (fly straight and level) AI routine.

 

But what I really want s an Albatros C.III, Farman F.40 and BE2c :)

 

And yes, my opinion is about as meaningful as everyone else's, but we can all dream :)

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Eastern front is not finished.  The last gen aircraft of 1945 are barely relevant to the eastern front.  Make a 43 and 44 set and the eastern front is covered,

 

Night combat: don't know if that would sell or not but one has to admit that it would be something different.  Very, very different way of flying and fighting.  More cerebral and less reflexive,

 

Med, BoB, and the eternally neglected channel front are very nice match ups.  How about western front tactical operations?  Forget the heavies and focus on the ground pounders.  P-47, P-38, Typhoon, FW-190 F and G.  Much more in the sweet spot of this product.

 

Pacific: IMHO rapidly becomes uninteresting after Midway.  US technology just vastly outstrips Japanese in 1943.  Oscar against a Hellcat?  Suicidal.

 

Western front strategic: also a slaughter for the last year of the war.  Also very hard to model.  To really get a feel it requires huge numbers of aircraft in the air.  Might be doable if the heavies were unflyable and worked on a simplified (fly straight and level) AI routine.

 

But what I really want s an Albatros C.III, Farman F.40 and BE2c :)

 

And yes, my opinion is about as meaningful as everyone else's, but we can all dream :)

 

 

An uninformed opinion.

 

Try Hellcat vs. A6M5, Ki-61 Tony, Ki-100 Tony, Ki-84 , Ki-44 Tojo, J3M3 Jack, N1K2 Shiden

 

Or substitute Corsair, P-51, P-38 for the F6F

 

However, any Pacific release should start with early war 1941/ 1942 plane sets to keep alignment with the two Eastern Front releases.

 

Of course the Ki-43 I, II, & III were all there as the US pushed toward Tokyo, but to say a PTO release would be suicidal is an uninformed opinion based on decades of Historical conclusions that would have no bearing on how a Flight sim played out.  The main difference being those of use with thousands of simulated combat hours would not be shot down in droves by Hellcats and Corsairs like the poor, untrained pilots the IJAAF and IJN Air forces put up in 1944 and 1945.

 

The US / Japan Match ups would be no different in balance than what we have not with superior Bf-109s and FWs against Yaks and LaGGs.

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I think all of this is being overthought. Why does it have to be either/or? The game engine is maturing rapidly. Why couldn't another theater be done concurrently with whatever the next Eastern Front theater might be? Cash flow and manpower are the only limiting factors. Perhaps another team could be created or the game engine licensed to another developer. 

 

I'll take what comes, where ever the setting might be. But I think, along with others, that the introduction of more Western aircraft would undoubtedly bring in a lot of new flyers. The bias some here keep suggesting against the Eastern Front is equaled by the bias a lot of those same posters seem to have for the West.

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I think all of this is being overthought. Why does it have to be either/or? The game engine is maturing rapidly. Why couldn't another theater be done concurrently with whatever the next Eastern Front theater might be? Cash flow and manpower are the only limiting factors. Perhaps another team could be created or the game engine licensed to another developer. 

 

I'll take what comes, where ever the setting might be. But I think, along with others, that the introduction of more Western aircraft would undoubtedly bring in a lot of new flyers. The bias some here keep suggesting against the Eastern Front is equaled by the bias a lot of those same posters seem to have for the West.

 

 

+1.  Good post.

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What we should be asking is: How many WW2 flight sims have there been in the past 15 years that weren't either IL2 or a derivative?

 

If a developer want to step up and make a Western Europe 1943-45 flight sim, I will be overjoyed and gladly buy in.

 

I just can't see, why the IL2 series, which is about the Eastern Front (the clue is in the title) is under some kind of obligation to make up for the general lack of sims by abandoning its focus to satisfy some western simmers who apparently can't be bothered to fly anything that doesn't start with a "P-" or a "B-"?

 

 

Its really simple Finky, and I am shocked that you'd have this opinion.  The clue was in IL-2 1946's title too...

 

IL-2 Sturmovik is, like it or not, the spiritual successor to IL-2 1946 and all its inclusive sequels.  Before I go any further, let me anticipate the typical Eastern-Front-Only crowd response  -->  Different developers, yes of course, but they marketed this game first and foremost to the substantial 1946 crowd, an existing hardcore combat sim customer base who all bought in with varying degrees of optimism to this sim being a continuation of what came before, developer pedigree and true motivations notwithstanding. 

 

Here is a review of how that pedigree went.

 

-  2001 IL-2 Sturmovik released to a genre desperate for something ground breaking.  No one cares that the flagship title focuses on the Eastern Front.  Widely acclaimed and successful in all markets.

 

-  2003 Forgotten Battles released to a community hungry for more.  Despite flyable planes continually being added to the first release FB adds many variants of the first release core A/C and many new Western fighters (Hurricane, P-40, P-47, I-153).  The sim world rejoices

 

-  2004 Pacific Fighters and Aces Expansion Pack The THIRD and FOURTH commercial releases from the IL-2 Franchise, departs from the Eastern Front to add the following aircraft, plus carriers and ships, and 16 new maps ( including Midway, Okinawa, Pearl Harbor, and Singapore)

 

A-20G

 

B-25J-1NA

DAB Beaufighter Mk21

F4F-3

F4F-4

FM-2

F4U-1A 

F4U-1C 

F4U-1D 

Corsair MK.I 

Corsair MK.II 

Corsair MK.IV 

F6F-3 Late 

F6F-5 

P-400 

P-39D-1 

P-39D-2 

Hawk 81A-2 

P-40B 

P-40C 

Tomahawk Mk. IIa

Tomahawk Mk. IIb 

SBD-3 

SBD-5 

Seafire L.MK.III 

Seafire F.MK.III 

Spitfire MK. VIII 

Spitfire MK. VIII(CW)

A6M2-21 

A6M2-N 

A6M3 

A6M5 

A6M5a 

A6M5b 

A6M5c 

A6M7-62 

A6M7-63 

D3A1 

Ki-43-Ia 

Ki-43-Ib 

Ki-43-Ic 

Ki-61-Ki 

Ki-61-Hei 

Ki-61-Otsu 

 

 

 

Plus the following Flyable if you install over IL2:

 

Hurricane Mk.IIb 

Hurricane Mk.IIc

P-38J

P-38L 

P-39N-1 

P-40E 

P-40M 

P-47D-10 

P-47D-22 

P-47D-27 

P-51B-NA 

P-51C-NT 

P-51D-5NT 

P-51D-20NA 

P-63C-5 

A6M2 

Ki-84-Ia 

Ki-84-Ib 

Ki-84-Ic 

 

Now I fully realize there is now way this Dev team is going to duplicate the number of Aircraft that the Maddox team did in the period of time 1946 managed, but the precedent is there for the spiritual successor to the IL-2 name.  The very idea that any other front should be done by some "other" developer from the West, or wherever rather than this team is disingenuous in the least, given the way this Franchise was marketed to the flight sim community, which really was that IL-2 1946 community.  All other sims don't hold a candle to the scope and immersion that 1946 brought to everyone.

 

I wouldn't use the term "obligation", but I did buy into this sim whole-heartedly and have supported it with my money, and my time when the locals were storming the castle with pitch forks and torches to tear it down after launch.  So given the precedent that the name the Devs chose implies, and the commercial success that formula had, yes I think there is a measured belief that this title shouldn't be East-Front-Only.

 

Its unfortunate some people think otherwise...

Edited by TheElf
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Its really simple Finky, and I am shocked that you'd have this opinion.  The clue was in IL-2 1946's title too...

 

IL-2 Sturmovik is, like it or not, the spiritual successor to IL-2 1946 and all its inclusive sequels.  Before I go any further, let me anticipate the typical Eastern-Front-Only crowd response  -->  Different developers, yes of course, but they marketed this game first and foremost to the substantial 1946 crowd, an existing hardcore combat sim customer base who all bought in with varying degrees of optimism to this sim being a continuation of what came before, developer pedigree and true motivations notwithstanding. 

 

Here is a review of how that pedigree went.

 

-  2001 IL-2 Sturmovik released to a genre desperate for something ground breaking.  No one cares that the flagship title focuses on the Eastern Front.  Widely acclaimed and successful in all markets.

 

-  2003 Forgotten Battles released to a community hungry for more.  Despite flyable planes continually being added to the first release FB adds many variants of the first release core A/C and many new Western fighters (Hurricane, P-40, P-47, I-153).  The sim world rejoices

 

-  2004 Pacific Fighters and Aces Expansion Pack The THIRD and FOURTH commercial releases from the IL-2 Franchise, departs from the Eastern Front to add the following aircraft, plus carriers and ships, and 16 new maps ( including Midway, Okinawa, Pearl Harbor, and Singapore)

 

A-20G

 

B-25J-1NA

DAB Beaufighter Mk21

F4F-3

F4F-4

FM-2

F4U-1A 

F4U-1C 

F4U-1D 

Corsair MK.I 

Corsair MK.II 

Corsair MK.IV 

F6F-3 Late 

F6F-5 

P-400 

P-39D-1 

P-39D-2 

Hawk 81A-2 

P-40B 

P-40C 

Tomahawk Mk. IIa

Tomahawk Mk. IIb 

SBD-3 

SBD-5 

Seafire L.MK.III 

Seafire F.MK.III 

Spitfire MK. VIII 

Spitfire MK. VIII(CW)

A6M2-21 

A6M2-N 

A6M3 

A6M5 

A6M5a 

A6M5b 

A6M5c 

A6M7-62 

A6M7-63 

D3A1 

Ki-43-Ia 

Ki-43-Ib 

Ki-43-Ic 

Ki-61-Ki 

Ki-61-Hei 

Ki-61-Otsu 

 

 

 

Plus the following Flyable if you install over IL2:

 

Hurricane Mk.IIb 

Hurricane Mk.IIc

P-38J

P-38L 

P-39N-1 

P-40E 

P-40M 

P-47D-10 

P-47D-22 

P-47D-27 

P-51B-NA 

P-51C-NT 

P-51D-5NT 

P-51D-20NA 

P-63C-5 

A6M2 

Ki-84-Ia 

Ki-84-Ib 

Ki-84-Ic 

 

Now I fully realize there is now way this Dev team is going to duplicate the number of Aircraft that the Maddox team did in the period of time 1946 managed, but the precedent is there for the spiritual successor to the IL-2 name.  The very idea that any other front should be done by some "other" developer from the West, or wherever rather than this team is disingenuous in the least, given the way this Franchise was marketed to the flight sim community, which really was that IL-2 1946 community.  All other sims don't hold a candle to the scope and immersion that 1946 brought to everyone.

 

I wouldn't use the term "obligation", but I did buy into this sim whole-heartedly and have supported it with my money, and my time when the locals were storming the castle with pitch forks and torches to tear it down after launch.  So given the precedent that the name the Devs chose implies, and the commercial success that formula had, yes I think there is a measured belief that this title shouldn't be East-Front-Only.

 

Its unfortunate some people think otherwise...

 

Completely agree.

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How about western front tactical operations? Forget the heavies and focus on the ground pounders. P-47, P-38, Typhoon, FW-190 F and G. Much more in the sweet spot of this product.

 

The tactical operations of the western front mid/late 43 up to d-day would be great. In addition to the aircraft you mentioned we could have the B-26 and Ju-188 among others. I would really like to see one more eastern front expansion before moving on though. Kursk would be my choice and with the addition of tanks to the game it really makes sense.

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I don't think that this sim should stay forever in this theater either, and I definately wouldn't mind seeing particularly the Mediterrainean/North Africa done in this sim.

 

What I would like however, is for the devs to "finish what they started", by making sure, that the Eastern Front is covered reasonably well from 1941-44 (the really late war stuff I'd gladly skip). This would take two more installments after BoM (Kuban/Kursk and Bagration/Kurland would be likely candidates) as well as perhaps a small package of assorted planes to fill in the gaps. The devs would then have an easy time expanding to any other Europen theater, since the Luftwaffe would be well covered for any post-BoB scenario.

Edited by Finkeren

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Its really simple Finky, and I am shocked that you'd have this opinion.  The clue was in IL-2 1946's title too...

 

IL-2 Sturmovik is, like it or not, the spiritual successor to IL-2 1946 and all its inclusive sequels.  Before I go any further, let me anticipate the typical Eastern-Front-Only crowd response  -->  Different developers, yes of course, but they marketed this game first and foremost to the substantial 1946 crowd, an existing hardcore combat sim customer base who all bought in with varying degrees of optimism to this sim being a continuation of what came before, developer pedigree and true motivations notwithstanding. 

 

Here is a review of how that pedigree went.

 

-  2001 IL-2 Sturmovik released to a genre desperate for something ground breaking.  No one cares that the flagship title focuses on the Eastern Front.  Widely acclaimed and successful in all markets.

 

-  2003 Forgotten Battles released to a community hungry for more.  Despite flyable planes continually being added to the first release FB adds many variants of the first release core A/C and many new Western fighters (Hurricane, P-40, P-47, I-153).  The sim world rejoices

 

-  2004 Pacific Fighters and Aces Expansion Pack The THIRD and FOURTH commercial releases from the IL-2 Franchise, departs from the Eastern Front to add the following aircraft, plus carriers and ships, and 16 new maps ( including Midway, Okinawa, Pearl Harbor, and Singapore)

 

A-20G

 

B-25J-1NA

DAB Beaufighter Mk21

F4F-3

F4F-4

FM-2

F4U-1A 

F4U-1C 

F4U-1D 

Corsair MK.I 

Corsair MK.II 

Corsair MK.IV 

F6F-3 Late 

F6F-5 

P-400 

P-39D-1 

P-39D-2 

Hawk 81A-2 

P-40B 

P-40C 

Tomahawk Mk. IIa

Tomahawk Mk. IIb 

SBD-3 

SBD-5 

Seafire L.MK.III 

Seafire F.MK.III 

Spitfire MK. VIII 

Spitfire MK. VIII(CW)

A6M2-21 

A6M2-N 

A6M3 

A6M5 

A6M5a 

A6M5b 

A6M5c 

A6M7-62 

A6M7-63 

D3A1 

Ki-43-Ia 

Ki-43-Ib 

Ki-43-Ic 

Ki-61-Ki 

Ki-61-Hei 

Ki-61-Otsu 

 

 

 

Plus the following Flyable if you install over IL2:

 

Hurricane Mk.IIb 

Hurricane Mk.IIc

P-38J

P-38L 

P-39N-1 

P-40E 

P-40M 

P-47D-10 

P-47D-22 

P-47D-27 

P-51B-NA 

P-51C-NT 

P-51D-5NT 

P-51D-20NA 

P-63C-5 

A6M2 

Ki-84-Ia 

Ki-84-Ib 

Ki-84-Ic 

 

Now I fully realize there is now way this Dev team is going to duplicate the number of Aircraft that the Maddox team did in the period of time 1946 managed, but the precedent is there for the spiritual successor to the IL-2 name.  The very idea that any other front should be done by some "other" developer from the West, or wherever rather than this team is disingenuous in the least, given the way this Franchise was marketed to the flight sim community, which really was that IL-2 1946 community.  All other sims don't hold a candle to the scope and immersion that 1946 brought to everyone.

 

I wouldn't use the term "obligation", but I did buy into this sim whole-heartedly and have supported it with my money, and my time when the locals were storming the castle with pitch forks and torches to tear it down after launch.  So given the precedent that the name the Devs chose implies, and the commercial success that formula had, yes I think there is a measured belief that this title shouldn't be East-Front-Only.

 

Its unfortunate some people think otherwise...

 

I think most people who are for further Eastern Front expansion don't want to banish the Western Front or the Pacific - just as you said we also see the current Il-2 as a spiritual successor to the old one (each person to different extents, but anyway). I'm glad you agree that 1946 went far with the PTO/ETO scenario because even in my deepest Western Front days although I missed a proper France map it still offered heaps of content to work with.

 

The reason people want Il-2 to remain in the Eastern Front for the near future can be justified with the same logic by looking at the amount of stuff that came for it back then, which is much more than the 20 aircraft and three maps we have with BoS+BoM.

 

To list only the flyable ones (without mentioning the experimental or 1946 stuff) including ones with minor roles, with the aircraft present in more than one theatre in bold:

 

A-20 (2 variants)

B-25J

Bf-109 (14 variants)

Bf-110G-2

Fiat CR.42

Il-4/DB-3F

F4F/Marlet (3 variants, fought a minor but important role during the Arctic Convoys alongside Soviet counterparts)

Fw-190 (10 variants)

Fiat G.50

Gladiator/J8A

He-111 (2 variants plus two specialised ones)

Hs-129 (2 variants)

Hurricane (4 variants)

I-15 (1 variant plus specialised versions, operated over China, Mongolia and Spain)

I-153 (2 variants, flew over Mongolia and China)

I-16 (originally 2, now 4 variants, plus specialised versions, flew over China, Mongolia, Spain)

IAR 80/81 (3 variants)

Il-2 (10 variants)

Il-10

Ju-87 (4 variants)

Ju-88 (originally 1, now 4 variants including anti-tank and torpedo bomber)

La-5 (3 variants)

La-7 (2 variants plus experimental)

LaGG-3 (5 variants plus experimental)

MC.200 (4 variants)

MC.202 (4 variants)

Me-262 (3 variants)

MiG-3 (6 variants)

P-36 (2 variants)

P-39 (6 variants)

P-40 (5 variants)

P-47 (4 variants, minor role)

P-63

Pe-2 (4 variants)

Pe-3 (2 variants)

Pe-8

Re.2000

Spitfire (2 variants that fought in the East)

SB (fought over China, Mongolia and Spain)

TB-3 (2 variants plus one specialised, fought in China and Mongolia)

Yak-1 (2 variants)

Yak-3 (3 variants plus 2 experimental)

Yak-7 (3 variants)

Yak-9 (8 variants)

 

The list of maps includes from what I see here 20 Eastern Front maps (plus summer/winter/big/small variations). We have three right now. :)

 

Of course, this list shows how easy it is to expand from one to the other, and I am confident we will see that eventually. We just want the East to not be forgotten, because outside of Il-2 nothing that is appreciated in the West really pays much respect to it these days, and we're talking about 27 million people who died. It's all about keeping that memory alive and also using their current position to complete a part of history they are very close to fleshing out already before using all that's done to jump to newer adventures.

Edited by Lucas_From_Hell

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