Would you rather have a new Battle of X that follows BOM and BOS(plane capabilities) or would you like something new?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

In simple movements indeed, but to provide sufficient Ai that can react to different threats appearing around it is not easy for sure. Ships would have to be able to react to torpedo bombers approaching from various sides, dive bombers and whatever else they encounter. Full fleet maneuvering is not so simple, though its obviously easier from aircraft movements.

 

I think the number of AI gunners is more of a concern than the captains and helmsmen. Still, the return on investment is the scripts, once written, can probably be cut and pasted to each class of ship with only minor modifications. I don't suppose a tramp steamer's operating principal is terribly different between a German, American, British or Japanese merchant marine. i don't think it will be necessary to exactly replicate Japanese or American heavy squadrons or carrier formations for our purposes. At least not in an EA scenario. Four or five combat types and two or three support ship types would be plenty to start. General offensive formations and defensive maneuvers would still be fabulous in this graphics engine. I wanna see destroyers rolling away from the turn while blaring the GQ siren and carving a mile long white arc through the ocean.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Umm, New Guinea was a combination of thick jungle, swamps, palm  plantations. Generally speaking terrain was unfriendly to soldiers of both sides, so I think it will be thicker than around Moscow or Stalingrad. And certainly the amount of human inhabitants was lower, there were few decent size places (Port Moresby was by far the best developed) but mostly you would find only native villages. Few roads were present only, so soldiers had to rely on trails and of course ships delivering supplies occasionally. 

 

Well, flaming Betty in Pacific Fighters was quite a lot exaggerated. Didnt matter if that was frontal or astern approach or from high angle, in reality flaming Betty was much easier for a fighter diving at high angle (preferably almost vertically like Wildcats did around Guadalcanal) wince fuel tanks were integral part of the wing, meaning that the only thing keeping fuel inside was a bit thicker than normally wing skin. However it was found that Better did not burn so easily when approach astern or from the side, since there were other objects on their way and wing also was a closed area. Not to mention that Betty was falling apart like it was made of paper, I rarely found it possible to return to base damaged, when in fact numerous times Bettys limped back to airbase without an engine or peppered by machine gun rounds. Hopefully Betty would be in this Il-2 a bit more of a challenge and fun. Nothing beats a twin engine bomber doing a low level torpedo approach :

 

 

I think the number of AI gunners is more of a concern than the captains and helmsmen. Still, the return on investment is the scripts, once written, can probably be cut and pasted to each class of ship with only minor modifications. I don't suppose a tramp steamer's operating principal is terribly different between a German, American, British or Japanese merchant marine. i don't think it will be necessary to exactly replicate Japanese or American heavy squadrons or carrier formations for our purposes. At least not in an EA scenario. Four or five combat types and two or three support ship types would be plenty to start. General offensive formations and defensive maneuvers would still be fabulous in this graphics engine. I wanna see destroyers rolling away from the turn while blaring the GQ siren and carving a mile long white arc through the ocean.

Oh yeah, that too. But I guess gunners can be put together as whole batteries focusing on a single target like they should. 

And for example in mentioned New Guinea there were present sometimes bigger ships like Junyo, Zuikaku or Ryuho. Allies supported their landings on Arawe, Salamaua or others with cruisers and destroyers. We dont need certainly battleships, but its not like only small frigates were around. Still I agree, for the beginning a smaller ships should be arrive.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Hiromachi, you gave me some good memories of the first USAAF DCG Pacific mission at Pearl Harbour with the P-40B. The Zero would catch fire at the slightest hit, to the point that I got some five victories or so literally because every .30 bullet that hit them ended in a terminal blaze.

 

Then came those high altitude scramble intercepts with P-40Es and P-39s against swarms of high-flying Japanese army aviation and stuff got very ugly with those Allisons.

 

I'm currently playing through a 16 GIAP Donbass campaign by Rata_As, it's incredibly well-made and the Airacobra is just an angel. It's fast, it climbs well, you can shower the enemy with MG fire and once you're sure of your firing solution pop away their tail with the M4.

 

That game was pretty great, huh? I'm so glad these guys want to revive that spirit, the next years will see some increasingly impressive stuff, I'm sure.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Yup. I dont think we will have boom like in early 2000s but still, if things go well this kind of entertainment might move from complete niche. It's all the matter of proper choices. 

 

 

 

Hiromachi, you gave me some good memories of the first USAAF DCG Pacific mission at Pearl Harbour with the P-40B. The Zero would catch fire at the slightest hit, to the point that I got some five victories or so literally because every .30 bullet that hit them ended in a terminal blaze. 

Yeah, I loved Zeros in Pacific Fighters but flammability was a pure madness. It's like nobody even tried to understand how it happens and how fire works. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I think the outlook is promising. There is interest in history, there is interest in aviation - I'm confident that things will work out.

 

The DM on this Il-2 is one thing I love. The fires are realistic, and things aren't as standardised like that good old single 20mm shell that ripped wings off all the bloody time.

[Gambit21]

Yup. I dont think we will have boom like in early 2000s but still, if things go well this kind of entertainment might move from complete niche. It's all the matter of proper choices. 

 

Yeah, I loved Zeros in Pacific Fighters but flammability was a pure madness. It's like nobody even tried to understand how it happens and how fire works. 

 

I had so many good fights in that old Zeke, I cleaned up in that thing.

I...want....it.....back......so.......badly...........

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Oh yeah, that too. But I guess gunners can be put together as whole batteries focusing on a single target like they should.

Hadn't thought of doing it that way but it might be a good work around for both animation and practical fire.

 

 

 

And for example in mentioned New Guinea there were present sometimes bigger ships like Junyo, Zuikaku or Ryuho. Allies supported their landings on Arawe, Salamaua or others with cruisers and destroyers. We dont need certainly battleships, but its not like only small frigates were around. Still I agree, for the beginning a smaller ships should be arrive.

 

I was thinking five common types initially. A carrier, a battleship, a cruiser, a destroyer and either an MTB or submarine. Build a specific ship with high fidelity then use it generically by type within a scenario - eg build the Hornet and sub it in for any large CV scenario-wise, even for a dissimilar type Lexington until that ship can be built after EA.

 

With those five types you can build any force you want on a simple scale without having to model every type/individual floating vessel. I'd add an oiler/tanker, cargo type and a landing craft. Each side had some version of all of these types. The dev's could add types and individual carrier's, bb's, etc down the road to build on/fill out the initial set later.

[Gambit21]

Start at Guadalcanal/Henderson. You need only the Zeke and Wildcat + Betty for starters.

Then you add the Dauntless and other stuff later.

 

Not only is this the most interesting part of the air war for reasons I outlined above, but you don't need carriers.

Heck start with a generic map first and get the Zeke vs Wildcat thing going. That will get people on-board and then historical maps

and ships can be added as it moves along.

 

Trying to start with carriers, given not only AI programming involved by the polygon count that will be expected nowadays - that's too

steep of a hill to climb out of the gate.

 

I'm telling you 'points to side of head' I have this figured out.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Gambit21

[Feathered_IV]

 

 

 

That is such an incredible image.  I've seen it many times and often wondered about the pilot in the uppermost Betty.  Was he a new pilot, or an old veteran that was presenting himself as a target to protect the others?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

He may have already dropped his ordnance and is pulling away. He seems to have climbed and rolled slightly to the right in the photo.

 

Just a guess.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Start at Guadalcanal/Henderson. You need only the Zeke and Wildcat + Betty for starters.

Then you add the Dauntless and other stuff later.

 

Not only is this the most interesting part of the air war for reasons I outlined above, but you don't need carriers.

Heck start with a generic map first and get the Zeke vs Wildcat thing going. That will get people on-board and then historical maps

and ships can be added as it moves along.

 

Trying to start with carriers, given not only AI programming involved by the polygon count that will be expected nowadays - that's too

steep of a hill to climb out of the gate.

 

I'm telling you 'points to side of head' I have this figured out.

I think the PTO is gonna need some boats. Even if they are limited in scope/type initially. It will be a hard sell to say, "Here's the Pacific but no carriers/carrier landings." And no torpedoes. And barren ocean. And, and, and.

 

Outside of the planes they seem to be the most anticipated aspect of the potential theater by forum users. Especially anticipating an $80-100 entry fee.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

That is such an incredible image.  I've seen it many times and often wondered about the pilot in the uppermost Betty.  Was he a new pilot, or an old veteran that was presenting himself as a target to protect the others?

Shinpachi-san on ww2aircraft forums explained that purpose of this Betty was to concentrate all AAA on himself, so it would approach higher and with greater speed. Others were required to approach extremely low (2-5 meters over the surface) so the AAA could not aim them, due to inability to depress the gun so much. 

 

 

 

Not only is this the most interesting part of the air war for reasons I outlined above, but you don't need carriers.

Most interesting is a subjective thing. I am a lot more fascinated by the New Guinea which was as place of similar intensity combat but also involved much more in terms of ground combat. There are guys who wish to see Kuban and find it most interesting. Perspectives differ. 

And personally I think that lack of carriers would be a flaw, if we can have them, even smaller ones, then lets do so.

 

Advertising Pacific without a carriers would in my opinion look just weird.

[Pharoah]

did I miss something? why is the talk like the PTO has already been confirmed?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Welcome to this thread - according to our own personal sources they have confirmed a Kuban, Italy, Guadalcanal, Tunisia and Normandy expansion, all at once. Now it's up to us 'experts' to work out the details and submit them to the developers so they can start development. Trust me, I'm a doctor

[TP_Silk]

Lucas - you forgot the Battle of the Death Star scenarios.......  That's no moon!!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Lots of debate within the team about that one though. They can't seem to choose between Episode IV and Episode VI, and some developers have also vouched to change it up and do Episode VII to attract a new audience instead. The hard life of flight simulator developers.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

did I miss something? why is the talk like the PTO has already been confirmed?

It's a wishlist post. We come here to dream the dream. Don't read too much into it.

[Gambit21]

 

Most interesting is a subjective thing. I am a lot more fascinated by the New Guinea which was as place of similar intensity combat but also involved much more in terms of ground combat. There are guys who wish to see Kuban and find it most interesting. Perspectives differ. 

And personally I think that lack of carriers would be a flaw, if we can have them, even smaller ones, then lets do so.

 

Advertising Pacific without a carriers would in my opinion look just weird.

 

Of course "most interesting" is subjective - that goes without saying. No need to illustrate that really.

No carries in a Guadalcanal campaign would not be a flaw because during that portion of the war both sides had their carriers 

stashed out of harms way for the most part. 

Then...like I keep saying...carriers can be added afterword.

 

Not saying I don't think New Guinea wasn't interesting, but you can't compare either the intensity of daily aerial combat, nor the parity of forces.

It was a unique era of the war - which is why I find it most interesting.

I would love to have New Guinea as well - it's all good stuff.

[Gambit21]

I think the PTO is gonna need some boats. Even if they are limited in scope/type initially. It will be a hard sell to say, "Here's the Pacific but no carriers/carrier landings." And no torpedoes. And barren ocean. And, and, and.

 

Outside of the planes they seem to be the most anticipated aspect of the potential theater by forum users. Especially anticipating an $80-100 entry fee.

Oh I agree completely, even a Guadalcanal campaign needs plenty of boats to be fully realized, transports, etc, etc.

Even an initial launch needs something in this regard - totally agree.

 

Carriers are ultimately necessary too. I'm just talking about my own fantasy, perfect world scenario that I'm sure will never happen.

In that scenario there's no 'Pacific sim announced without carriers" as Hiromachi said above, they just come later when resources allow.

 

I'm of the opinion that a smaller 'play' map, even if it's non-historic would be enough to get players on-board so long as it's understood

that historically accurate maps are on the way. That way we could get going with the Zeke vs Wildcat thing right away and look forward

to things expanding with not only the maps, but carriers, shipping, other planes. I realize it's not a normal way of doing things, but sometimes

you have to think outside the box to make something happen.

 

Again, just my personal, wish list, completely know it's pie in the sky take on this.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Gambit21

[LLv44_Damixu]

did I miss something? why is the talk like the PTO has already been confirmed?

 

I heard the next expansion and theatre of operation is announced already by 1CGS Developer Diary #358

Edited May 12, 2016 by LLv32_Damixu

[Gambit21]

There's a lot of annoyed, wasted clicks.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

did I miss something? why is the talk like the PTO has already been confirmed?

This is a speculation thread, its obviously fueled by peoples desires. And yes, it has been currently hijacked by PTO fans, when formerly it was a place of discussion about Western Front or Mediterranean. And we have no intention of returning it ! 

 

 

 

The hard life of flight simulator developers.

Episode VI please, always wanted to blow up Deathstart with my X-wing. And small correction, "The hard life of space simulator developers."

 

 

 

No carries in a Guadalcanal campaign would not be a flaw because during that portion of the war both sides had their carriers  stashed out of harms way for the most part. 

 Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands ? Allies continuous effort to reinforce the aerial defense of the island (for which carriers were used as well, to ferry aircraft) ? Sinking of USS Wasp ?

For 80 $ we should have at least 1 fleet carrier and 1 light (escort) carrier per side provided imo  

 

 

 

Not saying I don't think New Guinea wasn't interesting, but you can't compare either the intensity of daily aerial combat, nor the parity of forces.

Honestly, that is arguable. And parity of forces existed at some points, not always but same could be said about the Solomon islands  

 

 

I heard the next expansion and theatre of operation is announced already by 1CGS Developer Diary #358

Oh yeah, I've heard there will be special mission to protect Santa Claus flight from Korvatunturi  !

 

I'd buy Finnalnd expansion if they would attach to every copy a small package of Mämmi

[Chief_Mouser]

You want carriers? Then Malta is your man! No need for loads of different types - the devs can get the Illustrious up and running and if it works, then maybe think about the Pacific and all those other flat-tops. The whole scenario of Malta also makes perfect sense, especially if all of Sicily is included. An easy expansion into the later war; submarines, destroyers and cruisers, torpedo planes, Italian planes, RAF planes and loads of Luftwaffe planes that we already have. Oh, and flying boats! Bring it on!

Cheers.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

You want carriers? Then Malta is your man!

But ... but ... but ... Italian and German carriers ? Oh, wait  

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Don't worry about it, one week after release and Dr. Zeebra will have worked out a suitable carrier replacement like the deck of a destroyer or a submarine.

[Gambit21]

 

 

 

 

 Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands ? Allies continuous effort to reinforce the aerial defense of the island (for which carriers were used as well, to ferry aircraft) ? Sinking of USS Wasp ?

For 80 $ we should have at least 1 fleet carrier and 1 light (escort) carrier per side provided imo

No argument there.

By the way I'm all about a New Guinea campaign - like I said it's all good stuff.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I'm all up for Guadalcanal. But I'm also lazy and that one calls for longer flights 

[Gambit21]

My ultimate fight sim fantasy.

Flying maritime patrol or resupply missions in the Solomons in the Emily flying boat.

We don't have a flyable Ju52, so believe me I know how far I am down the road of fantasy with that one.

 

That's another great thing about the Solomons though - float plane bases/float plane ops.

I do love the flying boats and float planes.

 

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

My ultimate fight sim fantasy.

Flying maritime patrol or resupply missions in the Solomons in the Emily flying boat.

We don't have a flyable Ju52, so believe me I know how far I am down the road of fantasy with that one.

 

On a similar road, an Emily that you can get up out of your seat and walk around in would be even better.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

If you start walking you might loose yourself in that big thing.

 

Seriously thought, few aircraft, like Emily, carried radars to be able to find enemy ships. Since we have bombing so well made with bombsight view and all tiny details I hope that it would be possible to make a radar the way it was back then, so that those aircraft could be used for aerial reconaissance. 

[Pharoah]

My ultimate fight sim fantasy.

Flying maritime patrol or resupply missions in the Solomons in the Emily flying boat.

We don't have a flyable Ju52, so believe me I know how far I am down the road of fantasy with that one.

 

That's another great thing about the Solomons though - float plane bases/float plane ops.

I do love the flying boats and float planes.

 

Nice....I'd love to find you flying your maritime patrol mission in my RAAF Beaufighter. (btw, that's 4 x 20mm Hispano cannon).

[TheBlackPenguin]

I would love the PTO also

 

But, wouldn't North Africa with British aircraft carriers be a good step towards that? they already have some of the planes pretty much built already, from there one can do the PTO after gaining more experience and confidence.

 

Lets also not forget they have made some sea vessels in Rise of Flight's channel map too, so it won't be completely alien.

 

Honestly, either way I will be happy (yes I will be easy to please lol).

[A_radek]

Wildcat vs zeke? Considering our p-40, the wildcat will be a true challenge, and I mean that in a positive way. Though I do fear online mp will read sort of,, axis: 50 player -, allies 3 (One of them me trying not to blow engine just to get that chubby thing off the ground).

 

I have a thing for the quirky early planes, so finnish brewsters, pzl 11, I-15 Chaika, cr-32. Those are the ones I'd love to fly.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I would love the PTO also

 

But, wouldn't North Africa with British aircraft carriers be a good step towards that? they already have some of the planes pretty much built already, from there one can do the PTO after gaining more experience and confidence.

 

Lets also not forget they have made some sea vessels in Rise of Flight's channel map too, so it won't be completely alien.

 

Honestly, either way I will be happy (yes I will be easy to please lol).

 

MTO would be a dream

 

But the carrier ops are kind of limited in the Med. Supporting Operation Torch is probably the biggest use. The second biggest I can think of are the Spitfire V ferry flights from maximum range to Malta.

[Jade_Monkey]

It's North Africa guys!

 

I apologize in advance for my poor photoshop skills   I couldnt even get rid of the forests in the back 

 

 

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'm all in Jade. Make it so!!

 

[Flynco]

Yes north Africa is good we have me109, mc202, P-40E, ju87 and so on instead we need Gloster gladiator, Spitfire V, Hurricane mkI/II

Savoia Marchetti 79, Cr42, and G50, and my prefert Tomawak...this is a dream...

[Gambit21]

Nice....I'd love to find you flying your maritime patrol mission in my RAAF Beaufighter. (btw, that's 4 x 20mm Hispano cannon).

Spent a lot of time moving mud in the old Beaufighter - one of my favorites.

[Pharoah]

Spent a lot of time moving mud in the old Beaufighter - one of my favorites.

 

lol me too. Back in my IL2 1946 days, this is where I spent a good deal of time (this and the Tempest...my real fav), esp in the New Guinea maps with a torpedo. I'd love to have torpedoes in BOS, esp with moving ships.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

If you guys are interested there is a Russian 1946 server that is still very active today on this IP: 212.192.155.118

 

Maps are usually small but historical, and you will see people bombing and flying fighters equally. There is this really fun map where both sides only have twins, and two months ago I had this amazing swirling dogfight in a Beaufighter versus a Bf-110. I ended up stalling and going in, but it lasted for a good 15 minutes.