Would you rather have a new Battle of X that follows BOM and BOS(plane capabilities) or would you like something new?

[LLv34_Illu]

YeS! indeed for Siege of Leningrad! It was one of the biggest and longest battles in WW2, it includes battles in Leningrad area, Carelian isthmus, Estonia and battles in so called "sea front" in wich Red Bannered Baltic Fleet tried to break out from Kronstad and Lavansaari to Baltic Sea. We could fight battles from Winter War 1939 to end of 1944 in such map as Kanttori posted.

 

+1 for Siege of Leningrad

 

Illu

[LLv24_Zami]

As a Finn, of course I would love to see the Leningrad front like in the old Il-2.

 

But I'd say chances for that are slim at the best. Top contendors imo are MTO, Kuban and Kursk. PTO would be a surprise to me.

 

What ever it is, I'll gladly take it. Team has shown it's capability to create quality stuff. It will be very interesting to see what they choose.

[LLv44_Kanttori]

I think we can forget about that. The Devs stated pretty clear, that the engine can't handle a city of the size of Moscow (in terms of performance). Leningrad/Petersburg had similar size, if not even bigger in WW2. If a scenario up there will come, it will probably be similar to the Moscow map..Leningrad behind the eastern edge of the map

 

I have made flight simulator terrains as a member of Aces High II official "Campaign Manager Terrain Team" since 2001 (not anymore after switching to IL-2 Sturmovik... ) and also I am working now with a huge Karelia map to IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 as my hobby. So I know that the "game engines handling" depends on the 3D-objects' details and their amount over small area. These professional game builders can solve those kind of problems.

 

I am going to use with my becoming Karelia terrain the stock "Gulf Of Finland" (1946) map's building object. Those old Leningrad objects are very light and they are still nice looking. And it was 10 years ago they made it!

 

I have tons (Gigabytes) of reference material from that area: old aerial Leningrad and other towns photos, war time Russian, German and Finnish airfield photos and maps and that kind of stuff. I donate those references with pleasure to the IL-2 Sturmovik crew if they need them with this map!  

 

After all the battles were mainly all AROUND the Leningrad, not very much OVER the Leningrad: Gulf Of Finland, Oranienbaum, Kronstadt Isle, Kotka harbour, Karelian Isthmus, River Narva and Estonia.

 

Leningrad 20th of august 1942:

 

 

Kasimovo airfield 5th of September 1942:

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by LLv32_Kanttori

[Rothary]

Introducing the Finnish Air Force along with some terrain with a chunk of sea and many lakes would certainly be refreshing. It would give some more variety to the current IL2

[Danziger]

Yes I think Leningrad would be a logical last step to finish up the eastern front. I like it.

[LLv44_Damixu]

+1 for Battle for Leningrad

 

and give a boost (or reboot) to finalise already work-in-progress Murmansk area map.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

To add to the discussion, the reason Moscow was not included was to spare developer resources, not processing resources. Moscow is and was much bigger than Leningrad/St. Petersburg and they had deadlines to meet. That being said as the franchise grows bigger undertakings are possible so...

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Finns hijacked thread. Brace yourself, Leningrad is coming !

[LLv44_Kanttori]

Finns hijacked thread. Brace yourself, Leningrad is coming !

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

And groundhogs predicted early spring ... you guys are impossible 

[LLv44_Kanttori]

And groundhogs predicted early spring ... you guys are impossible 

After the Siege of Leningrad we can give you the Battle of Poland if you support us Finns!

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

After the Siege of Leningrad we can give you the Battle of Poland if you support us Finns!

Nah, we already have too many 109s. I'd like to see PZL-11 but not much battle would there be against Luftwaffe :/ 

[LLv44_Kanttori]

Give me the map editor tools and I can help the "Siege of Leningrad" project: I promise to edit the historical and huge 1:1 water bitmap with 10 meters/pixel resolution and also the elevation map, I quess it has 50 meters / pixel resolution? I am serious, I have done many of them (with lower resolution) to the Aces High II and IL-2 Sturmovik 1946.

Edited February 4, 2016 by LLv32_Kanttori

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

In theory it seems possible, since Zeus got to work on Velikiye Luki after his RoF experience

[wtornado]

Leningrad was too static of a front for years.

 

The Kuban/Crimea front was much more

important for both Armies.

 

Just think of Army Group south and center

and what happened from beginning to end.

 

The Fourth Luftflotte and its practical annihilation

 from the beginning of the offensive to the bitter

end and the progress of the Fourth and Fifth Air

Armies and their progression with little equipment

and what they had to fight with ant the end.

[Dutchvdm]

Leningrad was too static of a front for years.

 

The Kuban/Crimea front was much more

important for both Armies.

 

Just think of Army Group south and center

and what happened from beginning to end.

 

The Fourth Luftflotte and its practical annihilation

 from the beginning of the offensive to the bitter

end and the progress of the Fourth and Fifth Air

Armies and their progression with little equipment

and what they had to fight with ant the end.

 

A static front isn't a bad thing for a flightsim i think. It makes a long an interesting career/campaign possible, in a way that you can actually progress through the entire plane-set. ROF manages it quit well. 

 

Grt Martijn

[Dakpilot]

As has been said I don't think Moscow was left out for game engine reasons, but mainly due to the huge amount of work to recreate a large city at a level of accuracy that did not really feature in the battle except for a few night Bombings

 

Leningrad would entail a similar huge volume of work, to do it justice at the level of detail and accuracy now expected

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[xvii-Dietrich]

Leningrad / Karelia / Vyborg / Lagoda / Oranienbaum / Gulf of Finland... Kyllä vain!!

 

There's already the Ju 88s and Bf 109s, so you can bring in the G.50, Belheims, He-115s and Buffalos.

Then for the Soviets, you still get to use the classics, but bring in the DB3s and lend-lease Hurricanes.

 

Without a major shift, you introduce Italian, British and American aircraft, setting the stage for the Mediterranean thereafter.

 

And you put in place a major focal point for the Eastern Front, lots of water for Maritime operations. Perfect!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

It would need that AI Lisunov to come along for resupply missions, but the potential and the aircraft are already halfway there

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

I'd love to see Pacific or North Africa map. Or dynamic campaign to BoS & BoM.

[Jade_Monkey]

I'd love to see Pacific or North Africa map. Or dynamic campaign to BoS & BoM.

I dont think they will add a dynamic campaign bc PWCG is available now.

[Porkins]

If it had to be another Russian campaign, I'd vote for the Crimea, but Leningrad would be interesting as well.

 

That said, I think a third game set in the East would be a bad business decision for the devs. The European and US markets will be much more interested in a MOT or POT campaign (Western Europe too, but it's been done to death). I'm sure Russians love playing in the Russian theater, but surely even that market would get tapped out by having a third game set in the east, with many of the same planes from the previous game.

 

For instance, as an American I'd love to see a POT campaign. But if they released one POT campaign, and then another POT campaign, and then ANOTHER POT campaign all in succession, I'm pretty sure I would be all POT'ed out before then. Time to go to a new theater!

[Porkins]

As has been said I don't think Moscow was left out for game engine reasons, but mainly due to the huge amount of work to recreate a large city at a level of accuracy that did not really feature in the battle except for a few night Bombings

 

Leningrad would entail a similar huge volume of work, to do it justice at the level of detail and accuracy now expected

 

Cheers Dakpilot

This was my thought as well. I think the devs can get away with a BoM campaign w/out modeling Moscow because the vast majority of the fighting for Moscow never reached the city, but Leningrad was surrounded by the Germans, and the most interesting part of a Leningrad campaign would be the naval element, which took place largely in close proximity to the city. Point being, I don't see how they can do a Leningrad campaign w/out including Leningrad in the game map. So then the devs are devoting a ton of time and resources to model the city.

 

Far better IMO, to go to the Med. or Pacific. Either way the map(s) can be lots of water, palm trees, bases, and small towns. Much easier to model, which would free up the devs to concentrate on what they should be doing, which is making awesome planes and flight models, and a robust air/sea/land campaign!

Edited February 11, 2016 by Porkins

[Y-29.Silky]

(Western Europe too, but it's been done to death)

What? What covered Western Europe in the past 15 years?

[samson]

 

This thread was mostly made for something completely new. A P-51 or yak 9 or you name it is not really new... Btw if you guys are so interested in the western front go over to DCS for the moment. P-51 already exist and normandy map + more planes are in the works.

 

That is the thing I liked about it. A new flavour. The Mood. Not just killing and choping.

[Chief_Mouser]

Here's a scenario that's just bound to be a winner...

 

The Epirus Front: 1941 Italian invasion of Greece from Albania. Sea, mountains, rough airstrips, biplanes, 'crap' planes and a fairly non-mechanised ground war.

 

Plane Set:

 

ITALY (RA)

 

Fiat CR.42

Fiat G.50

Junkers Ju87R

Cant Z.1007bis or Fiat BR.20

Savoia-Marchetti SM.79

 

Bonus: Macchi C.200

 

GREECE (HAF) and GREAT BRITAIN (RAF)

 

Gloster Gladiator

PZL P.24

Hawker Hurricane Mk.I

Fairey Battle

Bristol Blenheim Mk.I

 

Bonus: Bloch MB151.

 

Well, it's always fascinated me!

Cheers.

Edited February 13, 2016 by 242Sqn_Cat

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I don't think people realise just how exciting those early war scenarios would be

 

Gladiators, CR.42s, G.50s, I-15s, I-16s and I-153s, Blenheims, Savoias, Hurricanes... These used to be high-end aircraft just a few years before, then all of a sudden they became obsolete, but often faced off in even terms. One day we'll see that, I'm sure!

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I want to sink the Marat again!!!

Edited February 13, 2016 by 6.J/ZG26_Gielow

[GP*]

I don't think people realise just how exciting those early war scenarios would be

 

Gladiators, CR.42s, G.50s, I-15s, I-16s and I-153s, Blenheims, Savoias, Hurricanes... These used to be high-end aircraft just a few years before, then all of a sudden they became obsolete, but often faced off in even terms. One day we'll see that, I'm sure!

Don't be so patronizing. We had many of these aircraft available in 1946, and while it was fun to fly those scenarios every now and again, it's not something to base an entire game around.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

High-performance fighters are not the only way to create flight simulators, and if eventually they did an expansion focusing on the marginalised conflicts it would still be very popular and as I said, fun. It doesn't mean it would be everyone's cup of tea since nothing really is, but it would be an interesting challenge and change of pace. The warm feelings about the I-16 by most people show this could work

 

That is not to say that major battles from 1941 onwards aren't interesting - they are, and they will probably be the next installments, but that doesn't change the fact that a new and unusual part of the war would be a pleasant addition too.

[GP*]

High-performance fighters are not the only way to create flight simulators, and if eventually they did an expansion focusing on the marginalised conflicts it would still be very popular and as I said, fun. It doesn't mean it would be everyone's cup of tea since nothing really is, but it would be an interesting challenge and change of pace. The warm feelings about the I-16 by most people show this could work

 

That is not to say that major battles from 1941 onwards aren't interesting - they are, and they will probably be the next installments, but that doesn't change the fact that a new and unusual part of the war would be a pleasant addition too.

What I'm trying to say is if our hobby really is a niche market, it doesn't make sense to make a game that's a niche of a niche.

[Muddy]

Battle of Brittan or Battle of France ,

Half the A/C are there already and with the complete Channel Map (from Wales to Amsterdam south to Paris) you have the building blocks for some expansion in several directions.

 

Anti-shipping,level bombing,Fighter sweeps both ways, there was just so much going on there for most of the war. As well as ground ops with tanks for those who do that.

 

As For BOB being done already,, where ,, when did IL2 come out with a working out of the box issue of BOB that was working correctly without having to be modded to be played?

As to that I do have a rather high end Alienwear laptop that runs everything under the sun maxed out completely without a hiccup except IL2 COD even with mods atag or whatever I still don't get a gunsite in fighter planes

[Feathered_IV]

Right Alt and the L key should give you the gunsight when pushed simultaneously.

[Uufflakke]

What to think of going eastwards?

To Manchuria. For the Battle of Khalkin Ghol (the Nomonhan Incident) in 1939.

Russia against Japan. As a kind of compromise between the ones who want to stick to the  Russian fields and the ones that would love to have a Pacific scenario just for flying Japanese planes.

In this case early planes, for example the Ki-27 or the Ki-21 bomber. And what to think of the early biplane like the I-153 or a TB-3 bomber.

It was mainly a ground battle but since there are driveable tanks it might also make other people interested.

A lot of infantry, cavalry and artillery needs to be included also.

And since the area consists mainly of open fields, rivers, lakes, small villages and dwellings not so much resources goes into populating cities.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol#Japanese_aircraft_losses.5B17.5D

 

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=147360&sid=75da79ee0b0e17ec9d95da8961b7685c

 

 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Uufflakke

[Feathered_IV]

What to think of going eastwards?

To Manchuria. For the Battle of Khalkin Ghol (the Nomonhan Incident) in 1939.

 

 

I would enjoy that a lot.  However the more mainstream customers would no doubt have difficulty with the notion.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

What I'm trying to say is if our hobby really is a niche market, it doesn't make sense to make a game that's a niche of a niche.

They are kind of inevitable though, in the sense that bit by bit these aircraft are needed and you end up having enough to market ab early war expansion. The Gladiator and G.50 for example fought in Finland, Greece, Northern Africa and so on. Once you do any of these, you have a few of these aircraft lying around - give them a map, campaign, any missing ground vehicles and another 2 aircraft to go with it and there's something you can sell as a Standard pack.

[kendo]

Regarding both Khalkin Ghol and The Epirus Front, I think they are both so far beyond the bounds of possibility as to be complete non-starters.

 

The phrase 'commercial suicide' springs to mind for both.

 

The only way I can see these theatres ever being addressed is at some point in the (distant) future when with the aircraft inventory having been substantially fleshed out and modding allowed, someone (third party probably) creates an appropriate map. In this regard it will be very similar to original il-2.

 

But please guys, really, wild speculation regarding complete no-hopers is a bit of a waste of time.

 

Guess that makes me a 'mainstream' customer.

 

Personally I'm hoping for a move westward in the next instalment. Not concerned whether that is the Med or the Channel (wouldn't even be averse to a Battle of Britain scenario, though probably that is out of the question too given COD/Team Fusion). I definitely feel that a third successive Russian Front instalment could become a little samey verging on tiresome - and this from someone who is interested in the Eastern Front. And if we have to go east again then make it Crimea/Kuban rather than Leningrad (have had enough of snow...!)

 

Would also be very keen to see the Pacific at some point.

 

All in all, given current plane set, and interest level, variety of combat available I would go for the Med/North Africa.

Edited February 14, 2016 by kendo

[VBF-12_Pequod]

First, IMHO I would stick with the fighter-attacker/light bomber-medium/heavy bomber set.

 

Anyway, I´m just going to express my opinion and/or wishes. I´m not saying what the devs should do or anything, 

 

East Front has never been my cup of tea, but right now I´m enjoying BoS more than I expected.

 

About the future, I would love to see the Pacific (1942) sooner than later, specially carrier ops oriented.

 

Pros:

-Sea maps: Coral Sea or Midway could be created easily.

-Balance: one Zero is better than a Wildcat, two Wildcats are better than two Zeros.

-Fresh air (therefore new costumers)

 

Cons:

-Land maps: Guadalcanal and/or New Guinea are huge. That means additional difficulty for map creation and long flights (not for everyone).

-New challenges: ships physics, carrier ops, seaplanes... I´m not sure if this can be easily implemented on the engine or not.

 

I would stick with Navy aircraft (and two Army fighters as Premium, so they would be apealling), so an example of airplane set would be like this:

 

F4F-3/4

SBD-3

TBD-1

TBF-1

 

P-38/P-39 as premium aircraft

 

A6M2-21

D3A1

B5N2

G4M1

 

Ki-43 (Premium)

 

Well, that´s what I really would love to see someday. Just my two cents.

Edited February 14, 2016 by 12.OIAE_Pequod

[wtornado]

If they would like to make something not too difficult they could always make the Battle of Malta.

 

Small map easy to make with lots of water throw in a few ships some AAA a few Stukas for me to

use with my HE-111

 

Kesselring can send the whole 2nd  Luftflotte I will be waiting with my Spitfire.

[wtornado]

What to think of going eastwards?

To Manchuria. For the Battle of Khalkin Ghol (the Nomonhan Incident) in 1939.

Russia against Japan. As a kind of compromise between the ones who want to stick to the  Russian fields and the ones that would love to have a Pacific scenario just for flying Japanese planes.

In this case early planes, for example the Ki-27 or the Ki-21 bomber. And what to think of the early biplane like the I-153 or a TB-3 bomber.

It was mainly a ground battle but since there are driveable tanks it might also make other people interested.

A lot of infantry, cavalry and artillery needs to be included also.

And since the area consists mainly of open fields, rivers, lakes, small villages and dwellings not so much resources goes into populating cities.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol#Japanese_aircraft_losses.5B17.5D

 

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=147360&sid=75da79ee0b0e17ec9d95da8961b7685c

 

I would much prefer a BT-7 to pulverize the Japanese Divisions on the ground.We would be chasing the whole Japanese Army

and their flimsy light tanks just with the Russian light armor and wipe them out would not even need planes.