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Kuhnada

The Future of IL:2: BOS

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Tanks without Infantry supporting them does not make to much sense either.

 

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The problem with ground and air combat sharing the same sim is the size and level of detail for the map. It's designed for air combat, less detailed and large. A ground combat game needs a smaller more detailed map. 

 

 

Only way it would work is if tank units and infantry units are confined to one small area of the map. Which means pilots would have maybe 5 minutes or so to fly to get to the action where the objectives are...but it just makes it that much more realistic. 

 

I've seen the cities in and ground detail in BOS..it looks like it could support infantry and tank objectives 

 

The goal would be to get Red Orchestra level groundplay and keep realistic air-combat

 

20 planes, 15 tanks, and 15 infantry units on one side, and 20 planes, 15 tanks, and 15 infantry units on the other side. 

Edited by Kuhnada

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I've seen the cities in and ground detail in BOS..it looks like it could support infantry and tank objectives 

 

not really in the numbers you would want

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ARMA2 is ok and ARMA3 gets constant updates and works great even on my machine.

BTW, why are you heating up a normal discussion? People are just expressing their opinions. I also agree BOS/BOM franchise should stay only as airwar sim. But I would give a chance to express their opinions to ppl who would like to see ground combat....After all...maybe as separate 77 product. Once in a future. Who knows what future brings. Currently both WT and WT GF are very popular games. Much more than "our" ww2 prop sim genre. So from the business perspective..... :)

I get annoyed that so called "experts" jump in and tell us all why the team "can't do this" or "doesn't have time for that". How the hell do they know? But what's hilarious is asking a bunch of flight sim heads if they want tanks.

What they should do is go out to the public to gauge interest.

 

And even more hilarious is theae "experts" again have no idea that tanks are practically already here. They just lack controlability.

 

And the other thing that gets me is what on EARTH would tanks do to the flight sim part of the game? You already fly over them the entire round. Have in a guy down there controlling one would not impact you in the slightest.

 

But again this is what happens when you try to bring aspects that could be really fun but different to a community wrapped around only one aspect of combat. Never willing to grow and expand horizons. Thus isn't olegs 1C tbis is 1cgs a new company that needs to attract MUCH more revenue to keep going. Tanks are one way to do it. Its like a tank came over to your houses and kicked each one of your dogs.

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I get annoyed that so called "experts" jump in and tell us all why the team "can't do this" or "doesn't have time for that". How the hell do they know? But what's hilarious is asking a bunch of flight sim heads if they want tanks.

What they should do is go out to the public to gauge interest.

 

And even more hilarious is theae "experts" again have no idea that tanks are practically already here. They just lack controlability.

 

And the other thing that gets me is what on EARTH would tanks do to the flight sim part of the game? You already fly over them the entire round. Have in a guy down there controlling one would not impact you in the slightest.

 

But again this is what happens when you try to bring aspects that could be really fun but different to a community wrapped around only one aspect of combat. Never willing to grow and expand horizons. Thus isn't olegs 1C tbis is 1cgs a new company that needs to attract MUCH more revenue to keep going. Tanks are one way to do it. Its like a tank came over to your houses and kicked each one of your dogs.

 

Still....no thanks

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++

 

 

 

Only way it would work is if tank units and infantry units are confined to one small area of the map. Which means pilots would have maybe 5 minutes or so to fly to get to the action where the objectives are...but it just makes it that much more realistic. 

 

I've seen the cities in and ground detail in BOS..it looks like it could support infantry and tank objectives 

 

The goal would be to get Red Orchestra level groundplay and keep realistic air-combat

 

20 planes, 15 tanks, and 15 infantry units on one side, and 20 planes, 15 tanks, and 15 infantry units on the other side. 

 

If you make the hole action play on one small spot of the map you have nothing new it would be just like in warthounder!

And if you would play with tanks on a large map like we use for our flight sim here people would have to drive for hours just to see some small action!!! ( if you make it at all to a spot were the action is before geting killed by some airplane !!! )

Also 40 planes on one server is far to small players allready complain about servers with 48 planes on it so a even smaller number would not be welcome by them!

To fill a large map whit life we would need more like 60 tanks , 100 infantery units whith about 10 people per unit and 24 planes per site. The large map whould be need because of the speed of planes. On a small map for tanks they would only need 10-15 min before they have to turn because of the end of the map and this would allready be a big map for tanks!

Edited by Gunsmith86
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To fill a large map whit life we would need more like 60 tanks , 100 infantery units whith about 10 people per unit and 24 planes per site. The large map whould be need because of the speed of planes. On a small map for tanks they would only need 10-15 min before they have to turn because of the end of the map and this would allready be a big map for tanks!

 

This needs to be done in order to keep the flight simming genre alive. Period. 

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This needs to be done in order to keep the flight simming genre alive. Period. 

 

The flight sim genre needs playable infantry and ground units in order to survive? Huh?  :scratch_one-s_head:

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This thread kinda reminds me abou the DD when they added dog barking to villages.

If pc tanks are as easy to add as Hooves says, then why not? But if it draws funds from what could be used on features that improve the flight simming then....

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Only way I could see tanks and Inf being added is if they were controlled RTS style. But that is never gonna happen. And honestly 99% of us bought this game to fly, not to crawl trough dirt.  

 

Then again I don't get it , why don't you just get War Thunder ? Its got everything you want.. + They're now adding winter maps so its gonna look like you're driving in BOS. 

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Only way I could see tanks and Inf being added is if they were controlled RTS style. But that is never gonna happen. And honestly 99% of us bought this game to fly, not to crawl trough dirt.  

 

Then again I don't get it , why don't you just get War Thunder ? Its got everything you want.. + They're now adding winter maps so its gonna look like you're driving in BOS. 

This is the ONLY community freaking out about tanks.  The Clod community wanted it.  The WT community wanted it,  but it seems 75 of the 80 people in this game find insults their elite Flight sim sensibilities.  Jeeh I wonder why there are only 80 people that play this online.  Maybe its not the Devs fault after all. 

 

And your response is classic,  Why not just go play another game"  DUH  you just said it!!!!   We could have tank lovers buying BOS and driving in revenue along with Flight simmers.  My god thank you for proving my point!

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Honestly it would nice to see just a lot more units/infantry below you, but only as AI units, not players, from my personal experience.

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The flight sim genre needs playable infantry and ground units in order to survive? Huh?  :scratch_one-s_head:

It wouldn't hurt things, but you DO NOT need infantry, WT has proven tank V tank is fantastic.  But WT is still arcadey even in SIM mode.  Why this community hates everyone that ISN'T a FLIGHT SIMMER  even though this game could handily provide a great Tank experience in concert with the air aspect.  Its beyond me.  I mean hell WE ALREADY HAVE TANKS IN THE FRICKEN GAME!  why is it such a big dela to make them drivable??  Its not a "strart from scratch" proposition.  In fact its FAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from it.  You all have no idea.

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And even more hilarious is theae "experts" again have no idea that tanks are practically already here. They just lack controlability

They also lack:

Better exterior models

Interior models and crew stations

Control schemes

Damage models

Better physics

A better looking world to drive through at the scale they need

Other better detailed ground units

Better animated infantry support.

 

People won't buy an $89 flight sim game and play with the simplistic tanks included here instead of the highly detailed and sophisticated aircraft they paid for.

 

If the BoS: Ground Forces sim was sold separately, like $99 for ten tanks. Then people wouldn't pay $99 for a tank sim with a comparatively poor looking map (because it's made to look good from the air) and simplistic zombie infantry (which also are made only good enough to look at from 1,000m in the air). The ground forces would need a better first person map and objects

 

So the two types of sims aren't compatible because of the different levels of detail and scale. There might be ways to make different levels of detail perceived by different players. But the ground forces game would be as much works as an entire new game. Not just adding controlability.

 

Multiplayer is problematic unless there are servers that could handle enough players for both air and land. Splitting up 64 players ruins the game for both dimensions.

This is the ONLY community freaking out about tanks. The Clod community wanted it.

Because the Battle of Britain had so many tank battles... In the book "How Not To Make a Flight Sim" the first chapter is entitled "Cliffs of Dover"

It wouldn't hurt things, but you DO NOT need infantry,

Real tanks are helpless without infantry. If you make the armor game "realistic" like a sim should be. You'd need infantry. Edited by SharpeXB
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This is the ONLY community freaking out about tanks.  The Clod community wanted it.  The WT community wanted it,  but it seems 75 of the 80 people in this game find insults their elite Flight sim sensibilities.  Jeeh I wonder why there are only 80 people that play this online.  Maybe its not the Devs fault after all. 

 

And your response is classic,  Why not just go play another game"  DUH  you just said it!!!!   We could have tank lovers buying BOS and driving in revenue along with Flight simmers.  My god thank you for proving my point!

I don't find it insulting I find it to be waste of time since there is so much to be done. The reason why there aren't enough players is because not everyone likes SIM battles, not everyone has a joystick and not everyone has the time or patience to learn planes. Unlike this game WT has 0h learning curve. Amputated kid could play that game. 

 

Yes my response is classic, what did you expect ? There's a bigger chance of him wining lottery than getting tanks in this game because its a FLIGHT SIM. Plus War Thunder has it nicely done, and you really thing a person who spent 300$ on Golden eagles + premium planes/tanks in WT is gonna switch to tanks that are not gonna be even close to those in WT ?  

 

Sure we need more people on BOS , and the first step would be better advertisement not stupid tanks.  

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Please no tanks. 

 

There are so many more important things to do.

 

Regards

Albino

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Did anyone notice that IL-2 Sturmovik is an airplane?

 

Boy that would be a great oxymoronic title. "IL-2 Sturmovik: Tank Forces"

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Man you guys really don't read what I write. We already have tank tech, it's pretty cool and doesn't break anything. When and if we decide to release it, you'll be the first to know. I've already stated that it didn't affect our work on airplanes or other development goals. If adding a couple tanks to get some WT kiddos or DCS folks to buy my product great. More money for other cool airplane stuff.  if it doesn't attract anyone no skin off our back as we are and always will be primarily a flight-sim.

 

The next update will put back several things that the community has wanted so lets just celebrate that for now and not obsess over tanks. And if we ever add some tanks, you certainly don't have to use them and MP servers certainly don't have to employ them. But personally I see some really cool scenarios where a coordinated tank assault on a target with humans while Sturmoviks and Stukas try to kill me would be fun. In our engine and physics system that would be a fun challenge.

 

Jason

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We've had the ability to drive tanks in our engine for a very long time. It's no surprise and has had no impact on our development schedules. Please don't get worked up over it. I-16 and the next update is in Beta so progress is humming right along.

 

Jason 

 

That is good to know..

 

This thread kinda reminds me abou the DD when they added dog barking to villages.

If pc tanks are as easy to add as Hooves says, then why not? But if it draws funds from what could be used on features that improve the flight simming then....

 

I agree... but based on the top quoted post... it does put things in a different light.. However knowing this team I think they are concentrating on the primary stated task at hand.. which is bringing us the best flight sim they can..  Frankly I'd like to see more AI infantry as well before any kind of live tank battles... but if it is doable and takes nothing from the flight sim resources why not.

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AI infantry would not be too hard to get right. If marching out of probable contact they move along in column, widely spaced if in artillery range of enemyor probable air-strike, close order in safe zones. In contact areas they either stay dug in and fire at enemy in the open within range, or they move slowly forward in some direction until they take effective enemy fire, then they lie down and fire until no longer shot at.

 

If they take too many casualties they get up and run back out of range and lie down again.

 

A simplification of infantry warfare to be sure, but much less of a simplification than some might think.

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And even more hilarious is theae "experts" again have no idea that tanks are practically already here. They just lack controlability.

 

And the other thing that gets me is what on EARTH would tanks do to the flight sim part of the game? You already fly over them the entire round. Have in a guy down there controlling one would not impact you in the slightest.

Giving players controll ove the standard, low poly AI models is basicly what the Combined Arms module does. No interiour views, no realistic physics, no nice high quality model, no fancy graphic effects....just an usual Ai tank.

 

That's not what (simulation orientated) tankers are looking for. If they really have the technology (physics) as Jason said it still requires the right implementation, which probably is the bigger issue of the 2.

 

If we were to see tanks these thing must be solved:

- refined map, smoother terrain with tank battle areas

- realistic graound physics for player tanks and Ai vehicles

- reworked ground Ai to interact with tank players

- high quality tank models for both Ai and players

- interiour views on all important crew positions

- animated crew members

- new high reslution map textures (only for tankers)

- new gameplay mechanics like multicrew on tanks, radio calls ect.

- new ballistic model for all land unit based gun calibres

- higher popcap on servers (100+)

- better bomb and rocket damage modeling for aircraft weaponry

- (probably) SP component for tanks (campaign?)

 

Gameplay issues that need to be taken into account:

- long traveling distances vs fun gameplay

- terrain has to be authentic vs playability

- spawn points must not be fixed to avoid spawn killing (from ground and air)

- tacticle goals for tankers

- difficulty mechancs (like 3rd person view) giving much more advantages over sim players

 

That list still lacks some stuff here and there but probably that's what to expect what a "good" combined arms sim within BoS requires. Again it took WT, which is a simpler game, moe than 1 year to fully include working tanks in their game and still most poeople hate their way of combined arms battles. Many things I mentioned also derived from some issuess this game still has.

 

Not speaking against tanks, as a realistic person I just don't see it possible in the quality this sim needs to appeal to tank sim fans.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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Man you guys really don't read what I write. We already have tank tech, it's pretty cool and doesn't break anything. When and if we decide to release it, you'll be the first to know. I've already stated that it didn't affect our work on airplanes or other development goals. If adding a couple tanks to get some WT kiddos or DCS folks to buy my product great. More money for other cool airplane stuff.  if it doesn't attract anyone no skin off our back as we are and always will be primarily a flight-sim.

 

The next update will put back several things that the community has wanted so lets just celebrate that for now and not obsess over tanks. And if we ever add some tanks, you certainly don't have to use them and MP servers certainly don't have to employ them. But personally I see some really cool scenarios where a coordinated tank assault on a target with humans while Sturmoviks and Stukas try to kill me would be fun. In our engine and physics system that would be a fun challenge.

 

Jason

 

 

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An old screenshot from the Russian forum....

post-348-0-16599900-1435731089_thumb.jpeg

Edited by Juri_JS
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I'm all for tanks and combined arms integration, it would attract warm bodies and expand the horizons. You could get some real Arma style scenarios happening with tanks and whatnot but it would still have an air combat focus, destroying bridges, flying against intelligently controlled flak and stopping the enemy from overrunning your base would be a hoot! The genre needs a breath of fresh air so go for it I say.

 

I don't care about infantry, nor can I see how it would work but it would be nice to be able to get out of the plane and go for a walk after a sortie. I enjoy the atmosphere in BoS a lot so it would be good to have another perspective to soak it up from. (Mainly so I can see just how totaled my aircraft is after my shocking landings or to sprint away from it before it explodes.)

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 If adding a couple tanks to get some WT kiddos or DCS folks to buy my product great. More money for other cool airplane stuff. 

 

Jason

 

Jason,

 

I am also a DCS fan, but heck - Il2 IS the WW2 sim, not DCS, and when I really want to play / feel like flying a true ww2 fighter / bomber in action, it's IL2 BoS I load, not DCS ;-)

 

I never bought Combined Arms, but I might give any thing that moves and can be controlled on land a try in IL2 BoS / BoM !

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Does this mean we could see drivable tanks in Rise of Flight as well?

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Does this mean we could see drivable tanks in Rise of Flight as well?

Yea looking ahead crawling with 4 km/h threw terrain while having gear and engine breakdowns every 50 km :P

 

Srl though lets dont take this too far.

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But we might get a WT zombie horde 

 

 Well more planes to shoot down :D But yea gotta agree with Ami doubt they would switch..if it was a F2P game like WT then yea there is a chance of them switching but since its 80$ you can pretty much forget it lol.

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Just think how many ground attack pilots.... would come into the fold...if they could hear a player lamenting his demise while getting hammered in his T-34 .  But the entire theater would have to be designed in such a way as to even want to hammer a tank...I mean...tankers would have to be able to inflict some dynamic damage to an installation...say the ability to shut down a base of operations/airfield, or destroy fuel and vodka supplies...and there would have to be battle lines reformed based on the success or failure of the overall combat.

 

I suppose we could have just an ability to put a human in a tank and have him duel it out with other tanks......and that might be the easiest way to get the ball rolling....Maybe attack some infra-structure, hit a column or two....But we'd need a lot more ground activity out there....wouldn't we.  Or like what has already been posted....it could take a while to even get in position for an attack.  Perhaps the ability to spawn at a multitude of  locations... would help....Now....my only concern would be...can the game handle all this additional ground activity.  If so....and if it's already basically there....hey man..throw the switch open...

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If it's there, then what the hey, no problem.

Could we have controllable ships in a Pacific setting please. Would be nice to control an aircraft carrier as a floating hyper-lobby...everyone ready? Turn to the wind and on my command...

I jest people ;)

I actually love that idea. Why not. It could at alot of cool things for people to enjoy. This does not have to be "fly and that's it" if it can contribute to the WWII experience. I say go for it.

Just think how many ground attack pilots.... would come into the fold...if they could hear a player lamenting his demise while getting hammered in his T-34 .  But the entire theater would have to be designed in such a way as to even want to hammer a tank...I mean...tankers would have to be able to inflict some dynamic damage to an installation...say the ability to shut down a base of operations/airfield, or destroy fuel and vodka supplies...and there would have to be battle lines reformed based on the success or failure of the overall combat.

 

I suppose we could have just an ability to put a human in a tank and have him duel it out with other tanks......and that might be the easiest way to get the ball rolling....Maybe attack some infra-structure, hit a column or two....But we'd need a lot more ground activity out there....wouldn't we.  Or like what has already been posted....it could take a while to even get in position for an attack.  Perhaps the ability to spawn at a multitude of  locations... would help....Now....my only concern would be...can the game handle all this additional ground activity.  If so....and if it's already basically there....hey man..throw the switch open...

You have obviously never see or payed attention the work Aborted man has done on the TWB server. There are entire tank battle raging on the ground the entire time. The tanks are spawned in a location that has them travel a fraction of the distance that the Aircraft do, all that remains is that they be controlled via a person not an AI. Sure nicer textures and DM would be helpful. Not beyond their scope as already mentioned in this thread by Jason.

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I actually love that idea. Why not. It could at alot of cool things for people to enjoy. This does not have to be "fly and that's it" if it can contribute to the WWII experience. I say go for it.

You have obviously never see or payed attention the work Aborted man has done on the TWB server. There are entire tank battle raging on the ground the entire time. The tanks are spawned in a location that has them travel a fraction of the distance that the Aircraft do, all that remains is that they be controlled via a person not an AI. Sure nicer textures and DM would be helpful. Not beyond their scope as already mentioned in this thread by Jason.

Sounds perfect Hooves, release the Panzers!

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That pretty much sounds like all you want is just a 3rd person arcade tank shooter with underwhelming graphics. If that is what you actually want I really can't see a reason for it to fit in BoS.

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That pretty much sounds like all you want is just a 3rd person arcade tank shooter with underwhelming graphics. If that is what you actually want I really can't see a reason for it to fit in BoS.

 

The reason to fit in BoS is to try to get more people playing the game.

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What I tried to express is that this sort of ground gameplay wont cut it. Only a real simulation with interiours (sth WT and Arma lack) and proper graphics and physics can be viable reasons marketing wise.

 

The current ai vehicles are very primitive and use 3d models on par with RTS games while having worse damage mechanics and ai.

 

Saying that all they had to do is making Ai vehicles driveable by single human players sounds just like some unrealistic imagination. If you want to see what BoS needed in order to compete with other tank games out there look up my previous post and think about how likely we're going to see this in BoS anytime soon just because it's a nice idea.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka

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That pretty much sounds like all you want is just a 3rd person arcade tank shooter with underwhelming graphics. If that is what you actually want I really can't see a reason for it to fit in BoS.

Thats not what I want at all. A first person tank experience with decent damage model DM better textures will do just fine. Some call for it to be an entirely different game, well guess what that takes people too. If you are going to hire a bunch of people might as well put it in the same game to save on overhead of making an ENTIRELY new game. Not to mention it can provide the current title with amother fun aspect.

 

What I'm suggesting is its worth the effort to put tanks into it at a level decent enough to enjoy but not at the eleven of Steel Beasts. If it does well, dedicate a few guys in their down time to tweak and add tank content in between offering planes.

 

It keeps the modelers busy whilst the planes get worked on by other departments.

 

Of course the next thing you are going to say is. "They could be working on other planes" well actually no they couldn't

Each delivery is set way before in a plan. When they finish with the next load of DLC. The next batch needs to be discussed and then planned out. Well, during that discussion. They make a few improvements to the current tanks and whalla!

Edited by [TWB]Hooves_McG

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