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What are your immersion ideas?

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Definitively not seeing the pilot inside the cockpit .. this is the most turn off .. and also this age very quickly.

 

I see my own legs and arms it's enough..

Edited by GOZR
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Agreed with GOZR.  I want to see the cockpit detail, not some chum's grubby hands all over the controls.  :angry:

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My inmersion idea is a submarine said a squaddie :D .

Seriouslly,I will prefer a live enviroment but fist at all, the posibility to build  realistic/historical missions. A recce that has to recon to succes in his mission, not just fly over a marker,  a transport that delivers cargo,  a rescue mission, that needs to land in enemiy territory in a specific spot, and the lists goes on:

artillery spotters, ambulance fligths, glider tow and piloting a glider, troop transport etc. 
To me, all these kind of missions are inmersive itself.

Maybe it s easier to list what is a "inmersion killer" To me, when I am in the "purist mission builder mood"  from the historical point of view,  its a inmersion killer that cant find the correct unit markings or denomination (in Il2-1946)

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I would like to see the pilot model in the cockpit. Both DCS and War Thunder have this feature already. And for those that do not like this - an option to disable the pilot can be added.

 

The Pilot model adds so much to the immersion of the game:

 

cockpit.jpg

 

9.jpg

 

1347664157_wt-pilot_model.jpg

 

shot4-2011.09.jpg

 

Sadly I haven't been able to locate video showing how the feet operate the pedals, but the effect adds so-much more to the experience of being 'linked' to your cockpit.

 

Excellent suggestion and I do hope it is taken onboard ;)

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I'd really like to see the engine exhast flames at startup and at dawn/dusk/night similar to what CoD had. As for a feature RoF has that I really liked was wind noise. It really gave you the sensation of speed. I know most ww2 planes are closed canopies but when we open them up at least have some noise then.

 

I'd also like to see a really nice looking GUI. Since I love RoF GUI already I'm sure this won't be a problem.

 

This is already in IL2 46 with HSFX.. it looks good too..

 

Definitively not seeing the pilot inside the cockpit .. this is the most turn off .. and also this age very quickly.

 

I see my own legs and arms it's enough..

 

Yeah I feel the same way.. for me that is right there with clickable pits on immersion needs list.. In fact seeing the cartoon pulot on the screen takes away from the immersion for me .. I would much rather prefer to be able to skin a picture of my own face to a pilot skin.. and not like in DCS either where the pilot skin is so precise to the model that if you miss it in any way it looks odd as all get out on the pilot skin once the sim loads..

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I like the animated pilot in the cockpit. Should be switchable so everyone's happy (WT has this).

 

MAC

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Terrain detail and texture need to be of a very high detail when flying close to the ground. We need to see every bump and contour of the ground, and every drift of snow to give that low down feeling of height and speed.

 

Takeoffs, Landings, ground attacks - In my opinion we need that height perception for immersion.

Edited by Skoshi_Tiger

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Terrain detail and texture need to be of a very high detail when flying close to the ground. We need to see every bump and contour of the ground, and every drift of snow to give that low down feeling of height and speed.

 

Takeoffs, Landings, ground attacks - In my opinion we need that height perception for immersion.

 

If you've played RoF, how does that compare to your terrain detail goals? 

For me, the only thing that might need some improvement is trees. Buildings etc. are just fine.

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The Pilot model adds so much to the immersion of the game:

 

cockpit.jpg

 

9.jpg

 

1347664157_wt-pilot_model.jpg

 

shot4-2011.09.jpg

 

Sadly I haven't been able to locate video showing how the feet operate the pedals, but the effect adds so-much more to the experience of being 'linked' to your cockpit.

 

Excellent suggestion and I do hope it is taken onboard ;)

 

I would rather they had spent more time on those cockpits, they are horrible.

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About ground detail, in RoF I had trouble gauging height when landing due to the ground texture at airfields. That was probably due to my PC as I had to turn settings down. How did other guys find it?

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Immersion happens in your imagination, not on the computer screen.  That's why so many still play SH3, for example.  Immersion requires compelling gameplay; when it feels like the result really matters, or you get a pit in your stomach from the anticipation.

 

What I'd like to see?  A Falcon 4 style 24:7 campaign, but that's probably not going to happen. ;)

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I really like the option "headshaking" (at least this is the german translation). It adds a lot to the existing FM in CloD and makes you feel "sitting in a plane", rather than acutally sitting in front of a screen.

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1. Guncamera feature that records with a typical crispy ww2 quality whenever u fire ur weapons.

 

2. More bushes and stuff. Not only trees like currently in ROF.

 

3. Ground war. Im sure we will see this in BOS.

 

4. Many parts of the engine to be damaged.

Oilcooler

Oilradiator

Oil lines + oil on canopy

Coolant leak

Coolant radiator

Cylinder damage + oil on canopy

Fuel leaks etc etc

And of course, instruments that have to be monitored closely when trying to figure out what has been hit... (this already is in ROF)

 

Hydraulic leaks... Gear coming down nunintentionally or partially

 

External tanks that can explode like we see in so many guncam videos.

 

Really LOUD Wind noise when taking hits in the cockpit! To the point that u hear almost nothing else..

 

Proper winter overcast weather...

 

 

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I agree Kling with you ideas also! The sound of bullets riddling your aircraft cockpit should be loud and terrifying.. on the same note it would be nice to have the hit sounds location specific.. Example hits to the tail section shouldn't be as loud or sound the same as hits to the cockpit or wing root area.

Would also be neat to see signs of coolant leak or steam coming from the cowling area upon a hit to the engine area coolant leak.

Would be cool to see a few bullet holes in the aircraft skin inside the cockpit also upon receiving cockpit hits if possible. Just eye candy I know.. and not high on any of the Devs lit I'm sure.. but that's what this thread is for.. isn't it? Give them some of our Ideas..heh ;) S!

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For me personally:

 

[...]

EAW and B17the mighty Eighth is my 2 games that really stick in my mind as games that have drawn me in. (Both single player also) EAW because of its briefings and GUI (hangar scene similar to what JQB was laying out. I like how the plane load out and pilot roster looked like it was written on a blackboard. So many little touches like that.

[...]

This.

 

I really loved the menu screens in those 2 games, that gave you the impression to actually be on an airfield, in your barracks or in the hangar with your plane being checked and prepped.

There's never been anything quite like it - at least in any sim I know.

 

I'm hoping we'll have that kind of menu some time again and maybe even in BoS (if not from the beginning then maybe at a later stage of its further development).

 

Please no more sterile "I could be the menu of any game ever" menus like we have in IL-2.

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Life on the airport is not too important to me.  If you need that, where does it end?  A pimply-faced private pulling the chocks as a grizzeled veteran stands on the wing while helping you strap in?

 

I want to get in the air and fly.  Immersion in flight is what I am after.  Sounds, reflections, shadows, smoke, fire, weather, realistic damage for me and the guy I am shooting at, and vibrations are what I am after.  I also like the suggestion of having the controllers giving directions and altitudes continually.  I guess that is in the "sounds" category, though.

 

At the risk of getting flamed, I want to say that I am not so unhappy with real life that I want to escape into another world.  So, the simulation doesn't have to be holodeck perfect. Just let me have enough immersion that I can, for a short time, buy into the action.

 

What I really insist on is accurate flight models, which includes engine management.

 

binky9

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To add a little to what I have already said, I wonder how many CoD players would be happy with exactly what is in the ROF engine, but set in Stalingrad with planes of that era?

 

ROF is pretty good.  Maybe location and planes is all that needs to be chaged to arrive at BoS.

 

binky9

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Kinda hokey, but the ability to upload and add a taped up picture of my girl next to the cockpit gauges would do it for me.  I would love that personalization to the sim, really makes it my plane.  I don't think this would be hard at all and I don't think it would hurt performance.

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For me personally:

 

 

This.

 

I really loved the menu screens in those 2 games, that gave you the impression to actually be on an airfield, in your barracks or in the hangar with your plane being checked and prepped.

There's never been anything quite like it - at least in any sim I know.

 

I'm hoping we'll have that kind of menu some time again and maybe even in BoS (if not from the beginning then maybe at a later stage of its further development).

 

Please no more sterile "I could be the menu of any game ever" menus like we have in IL-2.

I would really like to see the barracks brought back, as where you can sit back and look at your accomplishments.. Medals, promotions.. a flight diary possibly. It is where a pilot would relax and reflect on is day... the small touch of a radio playing music in the back ground was nice also. Please take a look at how these games were made back then..(EAW,B17 The mighty 8th) It was what hooked us to this genera... in the first place.

Edited by 352ndRibbs
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Just to fall in line with most of the points that have been posted already, I would like to see more life on the airfields, for example if you are flying back home with battle damage and lets say your landing gear didnt come down, you let the guys at the tower know that your going to crash land and if you survive you get too see fire trucks and ambulance coming to you.

 

Im also in for animated pilots in the cockpit, I understand that you have an actual joystick and your hand in front of you, but lets not forget that we are watching a screen, not ourselves so it seems kinda awkward to see a stick move by itself( the safest way to implement this is as an option so everybody is happy).

 

Another thing that would really add to the immersion would be bailing out in first person view, if you think about it you are in first person view most of the time(assuming you are here for the realism), so it only makes sense that when your plane is seriously hit and falling like a meteor and maybe you are hurt too, there should be an intense struggle to get out of that plane and live and this should be added to the overall experience.Imagine having to get out of your harness, then opening the canopy and pulling yourself out, all of this while your engine is engulfed with flames or simply your plane is spinning around out of control.A touch of blood in the cockpit instrument panel or glass would be a nice touch as well.

 

One last thing, I dont know if it is still there in Cliffs of Dover but I remember a video posted before release of a Spitfire pulling some G's and the cockpit needles going crazy from the bumps,I watched that video last week and  the feeling it transmitted was so pure and raw, I would love to see that in Battle of Stalingrad.

Edited by royraiden

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for example if you are flying back home with battle damage and lets say your landing gear didnt come down, you let the guys at the tower know that your going to crash land and if you survive you get too see fire trucks and ambulance coming to you

 

That's fun, but in order to be realistic it requires the developers to understand the facilities available at each different airbase, in each scenario. E.g. in Jan 43, a small, encircled base like Gumrak may not have had anything like fire trucks and ambulances available, whereas Kletskaya would have. Later on as the Soviets moved forward, the types and numbers of ground support vehicles would have to change as the field was recaptured.

 

All this demonstrates, I guess, is that the view from the cockpit is never enough for me. What happens outside the cockpit has to make sense as well.

 

Cheers,

4S

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Agreed on pilot extremities being visible (ahem)...you need arms and legs otherwise it looks like a ghost/drone plane.

 

Also agreed on anything that breathes life on the airfield and beyond. However, if there are going to be airfield animations and scripted stuff then there need to be quite a few to cycle through, and variations, to avoid endless repetition.

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Power ups and extra ammo for flying under bridges? - That is probably the ghastliest idea I have heard for a long time! Go play a game instead of flying a sim!

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Freycinet said:

 

Power ups and extra ammo for flying under bridges? - That is probably the ghastliest idea I have heard for a long time! Go play a game instead of flying a sim!

 

So which comment is the happy recipient of this sarcasm?

 

In the long list of suggestions i do not see Super Mario...

 

Snobbery can be fairly 'ghastl'y too. And lest we forget, these are all games in the strict sense, hardly military (or civilian) spec simulators, however flattered some people may feel to believe otherwise.

 

Part of the reaosn the early games are held in such affection is because their limitations forced your imagination to come into play. Immersiveness encourages imagination and vice versa....

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Snobbery can be fairly 'ghastl'y too. And lest we forget, these are all games in the strict sense, hardly military (or civilian) spec simulators, however flattered some people may feel to believe otherwise.

 

No, such a hard distinction does not exist.  I know an Air Force pilot who says that in many respects Falcon BMS is a better F-16 simulator than the ones the Air Force spends millions of dollars to develop.  The user's motivation to learn is the desktop simulator's biggest realism limit.

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It's what happens in the air that I'm after.  Clouds which provide depth to the sky.   AI and other players' planes which move properly.  Cockpit shadows which do the same.  I like RoF's way of depicting far-off aircraft, ie not dots which transform into aircraft at a certain distance.

 

I'm less fussed about populated airfields and loads of stuff happening on the ground.  Though I agree with binky9 that ground textures are important when it comes to landing.  I find RoF tricky and CloD even harder in that respect - but that could be because I can't run the game at higher settings

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Two things came to mind that I have not seen here yet.

 

1: First person bailout. (like DCS P-51).

 

2: 3 Different crew escape animations on ground (not climbing out of aircraft, but fleeing from the crash site).

 

   No injuries = Run like IL-2 1946 and jump to the ground.

   Minor Injuries = Limp and eventually jump/collapse on the ground.

   Severe Injuries = Crawl on the ground and eventually collapse.

 

That would add a cool scene to a downed bomber, where some crew members may be partially wounded. After the plane comes to a stop, they would run/limp/crawl away from the wreckage.

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Two things came to mind that I have not seen here yet.

 

1: First person bailout. (like DCS P-51).

 

2: 3 Different crew escape animations on ground (not climbing out of aircraft, but fleeing from the crash site).

 

   No injuries = Run like IL-2 1946 and jump to the ground.

   Minor Injuries = Limp and eventually jump/collapse on the ground.

   Severe Injuries = Crawl on the ground and eventually collapse.

 

That would add a cool scene to a downed bomber, where some crew members may be partially wounded. After the plane comes to a stop, they would run/limp/crawl away from the wreckage.

Well, I mentioned the first person bailout :) so you are not alone.Im also with you on the different crew bailouts on the ground. By the way I just watched the DCS bailout on the Mustang and it looks absolutely amazing, thats what we want Jason,Loft and company :D

 

Wanted to post it if anyone has not seen it yet, after seeing this I honestly think that from now on all serious combat flight sims should have something like it:

Edited by royraiden

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I want the feeling of flight like I've always felt in IL-2. I don't care if every knob or lever works. Smoothness of flight without micro pauses really help me with immersion although I've never been able to completely forget I'm flying a computer  as some people claim.

 

I disagree that ground detail is any less important in a start of the art sim. While we likely will never see large armys moving across the landscape, something more is needed than the occasional  train or convoy of vehicles. How or when that gets accomplished is beyond me but I'm sure it will happen.

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Try my Operation Sunlight mission on the ATAG server or on the AUS_Nations@war server. It has random vehicles, trains etc. Random number of Ai planes in Ai flights. Airbase comanders monitor enemy activity over their airfields & will order-in more AA defences if they are frequently attacked. Hell, even the airfields will randomly upgrade their aircraft from time to time ie. An airfield with only a Bf109E-1 when you start the battle will suddendly get upgraded to having both Bf109E-1 & Bf109E-3's, hurricane Rotols upgraded to hurricane 100octane etc.

Hey Salmo, that sounds like a nice mission on the server! Will try to find it!

I have stayed away from Clod due to all its bugs...

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Life on the airport is not too important to me.  If you need that, where does it end?  A pimply-faced private pulling the chocks as a grizzeled veteran stands on the wing while helping you strap in?

 

I want to get in the air and fly.  Immersion in flight is what I am after.  Sounds, reflections, shadows, smoke, fire, weather, realistic damage for me and the guy I am shooting at, and vibrations are what I am after.  I also like the suggestion of having the controllers giving directions and altitudes continually.  I guess that is in the "sounds" category, though.

 

At the risk of getting flamed, I want to say that I am not so unhappy with real life that I want to escape into another world.  So, the simulation doesn't have to be holodeck perfect. Just let me have enough immersion that I can, for a short time, buy into the action.

 

What I really insist on is accurate flight models, which includes engine management.

 

binky9

:salute:

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Immersion, to me, is not based on objects outside the cockpit: of course having a "living" airbase can be immersive, but only for a pair of minutes (takeoff, landing)... but think about how much time the developer need to waste for a feature like this.

 

To me, features that give immersion are clouds (in Condor clouds are my worst nightmare), bumps/vibrations (moving gauges) and every event who acts direcly on the plane as a realistic CEM, so that I need to carefully manage the plane, watching the gauges and listening to the engine.

 

In addition I would like some realistic interactive comms between me and the airbase. It's so important to have an informative radio who can vector you in realtime.

 

I'm used to play with many racing simulators and, really, the best ones are those who give you a good feeling to be inside the car: I really don't care of what is around the circuit...

Words of wisdom here! :good:

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I believe most players have never flown a real aircraft or even sat in pilot's seat in any military air plane.

So my guess is that if some things are missing from the cockpit, MOST people won't notice - because they don't know all the details of a real plane.

There might be 25% of less used cockpit gauges missing and most players wouldn't notice.

 

The same with many details of flying. Is engine sound realistic at some RPM or how easy should it be to land some particular plane type - most people don't know.

If some plane had weak landing gear and there were many accidents because of that - how well are such things modeled? Very difficult to say.

 

I think immersion is not just things are included. It can be also ruined by things that shouldn't be there or behaviour that is totally unrealistic.

For example if AI planes fly like robots, ignore their plane being hit, react perfectly without any delay and so on.

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I really think we should have a list in the first post of this thread with a summary of all the ideas we have shared so to make it easy for the devs to access it whenever they need it. If we keep replying and dont organize these ideas some of them might be skipped.

Edited by royraiden
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Wanted to post it if anyone has not seen it yet, after seeing this I honestly think that from now on all serious combat flight sims should have something like it:

 

Wow, that was intense!

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I'd like to see that from external view to understand what actually happened.

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I'd like to see that from external view to understand what actually happened.

 

You are welcome

 

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lol on the fly under the bridge to get power ups. Hehe I remember when I used to think 1943 at the arcade was so legit.   :D




+1 on the idea of feeling like you're flying

 

few games really give that, DCS p-51, falcon, 1946, MIg Alley . . .. 


and certain details . . . . really make the difference. Like there was this one patch for 1946, and the engine sounds were so well done, I could use hearing to tell the RPM's and adjust pitch, or just by flying around could tell if I needed to trim up a bit. 

I hope the devs can model CEM but also let us deal with CEM the way real pilots did with cues like feel, sound etc. 








I'd like randomness during missions, or "personalities" added to both sides, like AI wingmen, one could be an ace maverick, she racks up kills but doesn't listen too well. Or even if its just radio chatter. Or an enemy pilot that always shoots cannons, then MG's or something.

 

 

 

 

Random events in missions, like if going feet wet, you see a yellow vest in the water . . .  or a lost friendly cruising around or a beat up enemy plane . . . 

 

Things you have to think, 'should I risk it, or should I help?' 

 

 

But one of the best was you start out a mission and one think's a day to day routine, then its bodenplatte and you see hundreds of enemy fighters and bombers, stuff starts exploding (the game gives you a minute of being alive to react, so if you're too slow you get blown away and have to restart). 

 

In MMO's that was pretty awesome when they did stuff like that. The town (safe zone) is gone and burning, enemy stuff running around you wouldn't normally see, and instead of finishing your lunch, you have to get your butt in gear and move. 

 

Or you go through a briefing, but then your commander walks up and says your squadron has a different one and you get an impromptu briefing / video of the new one. 

 

 

 

 

Or you're zipping around on a mission, (like late war when allies have air superiority), and you (p-51) get jumped by a boss german ace, and there's a dramatic lead up (you see his kills or watch him take down 3 or 4 of your mates). 

 

 

During campaign you might get some different missions, like maybe a pacific theater, you have to "escort" WASPs making deliveries, or you get a chance to fly the extra flying boat to look for a pal

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-Fire and smoke inside the cockpit after being hit.

-Dynamic weather circumstances.

-Realistic sounds of engines, explosions etc.

-Environmental sounds for let's say airfields, cities, sea (I know there ain't no sea close to Stalingrad but maybe usefull for a sequel like MTO or so.)

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- Bigs shakes in crash landings


 

- Oil  in cockpit , Fire and fuel in cockpit for some planes.

 

 

 

 

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