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What are your immersion ideas?

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Like the title suggests... lets hear what ideas you have that would give you the feeling of " being there".

Try and keep them realistic, in the fact that the game is in its infancy.. and in the early stages of development. I'm hoping we can give Jason and his Devs. some ideas that might be able to make it in the game at some point.

 

I would like to see the airfields really be concentrated on. They are where we live, take off from... and HOPEFULLY return to. I can only imagine what a welcome site the fighter or bomber pilots home airbase must have been after a terrifying dogfight or bombing run! Nursing your injured and bullet riddled fighter or bomber back home, and see life back at the airbase. I'm not talking about having crewman run out to your plane and carry you off on their shoulders.. but having simple animated crewman working on aircraft or equipment would be neat. Trucks driving around fueling aircraft.. on have an ambulance and fire truck come out to your belly landed aircraft. Stuff like that especially in SP mode would really add to the feeling of "being there" lets hear your suggestion!

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I would like to see the pilot model in the cockpit. Both DCS and War Thunder have this feature already. And for those that do not like this - an option to disable the pilot can be added.

Edited by Sim

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A connection between the player and the environment ... meaning the campaigns (static and dynamic) must be based on historical facts. RoF has a dynamic campaign that contains historical aces and personalities, the same should be possible for BoS. Briefings ... that's a tough one. I greatly prefer the storytelling style, kinda like the campaigns that came with the 1946 Add-On which showed what would be possible, but that is of course for static ones. Missions must be following historical guidelines and realistic patterns and must not be "enhanced" to make them more "KeWl". Maybe some kind of movies/newspaper additions outlining historical events in between missions. Something like that ...

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I like the world news in ROF, but I would like them to be acis or allied based. Like gothic styled letters if it's german and cyrillic styled if Soviet. Something I remember from Jane's WW2 fighters. Ground troop ande vehicle movement. And yes I +1 the airfield activity idea. As well as pilot personal stories and a chance to interact with virtual SP campaign pilots.

 

Bad thing is I don't have ideas how it should be done. :P

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i'd like to see programmable AI on multiple levels,, strength, courage,eyesight, experience, marksmanship, endurance etc.. I'd like to have the ability to set things up on at least two levels.. as in an easy short way and a long more detailed way.. much like you can go into IL2 and set easy normal; or realistic in the difficulty settings .. I really don't care much about back stories and all that.. In fact I think that if they decided to do that then they ought to put out a call to those who are interested in those things asking them to do it.. If thier submission is picked they can get a free copy of the sim and they could get credit. I think they need to concentrate on the things that will make the simming good.. like AI FMs DMs mission builder etc etc.. and leave some of the fluff stuff to some of us. If nothing else this community has proven itself to be very talented and I bet it would go over well.

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Actually il2 campaigns allowed what they are asking above. It took a lot of work, but it was possible.

What would be needed here is that on set campaigns, a presentation viewer is called. With very little coding, you could use for that purpose some standard software for this, and let the sim make an external call to a viewer.

Whoever wish to build a campaign with that kind of content, will have the possibility without creating new software, or strange standards for something allready well known.

 

Hey Bearcat, you forgot the posiibility for the AI to get experience and fly better later. So people learn to care for their flymates, even when they are not human... and be extremely concerned when a good one dies... anyway, +1 to your idea.

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Here's my two cents (devs take your notepads out:)

First of all make a good use out of loading screens. A static picture is boring and a bit of a let down before a flight. I suggest either a good mission briefing (weather, formations, target info) or, better yet, some essential specs of the plane you are about to fly (take off and landing speed, never exceed speed, range, etc). Another idea would be to play a short film during loading.

Also, I'm a big believer in making the GUI match real world locations on the base. I know the risk is that it comes out tacky but if done well it can be a good way of making you feel like you are a real pilot between sorties. So you would have a hangar where your plane would be available for inspection and pre flight walkaround. A private office where you manage your personal dossier or those of pilots in your section/squadron. Other rooms/buildings could serve other purposes. This worked well in other games (Silent Hunter 3 for example - I have not played 4 nor 5).

Put a lot of emphasis on every part of the interface. Switches can be made to look like old ones from the era. Music can be Edith Piaf or something played from a His Master's Voice gramophone.

Introduce gun camera where historically viable. Make it grainy. Make a separate room where you can view the footage.

I really liked the post action briefings where you could see exactly where you went and events such as crashes.

Have a realistic in flight map. One that looks like what the real pilots would have used. Have a cheat sheet with some notes on the aircraft, maybe some checklists. Make this cheat sheet look like real paper and make it selectable in realism settings.

That's all I can think of now but I might come back with more.

I wish you a fulfilling and productive time developing this project. I hope you have lots of fun with it!

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Would love to have some level of interaction between pilots and 'Fighter Command' via the radio. This could be for example one way voice communication (respectively text, but voice would be better) by fighter command to pilots directing them to bogeys, e.g. 'Blue Squadron climb Angels 20, fly heading 120. Formation of enemy bombers approaching from South at Angels 15, distance to target 100 miles. Watch out for fighter escorts at Angels 18'. Having such fighter command (in a vintage radio voice) would make flight without icons for planes or on maps possible and very immersive. 

 

This concept could be expanded to 'Scramble' commands at airfields, take off and landing clearances, etc.

 

I'm primarily thinking here of AI/computer generated voice commands, however it would be thinkable to have a human controlled 'Fighter Command' as part of the game.

 

MAC

 

P.S.: Fully agree with JQB on the importance of life at the airbases for immersion. Love this picture for example, it's just a still but imagine this being animated and you being there as a pilot ready going for a mission (note to admins: not intending to advertise here, seems your games are in a different ballpark anyway).

 

wt_wallpaper_dora-1_zps62099e33.jpg

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What i would really like for the careermode is a more personal plane. Like showing the actual number of victories on your plane, or using a personal skin for your current career account. I don't think it would be that hard and as far as i know it has never been done before.

 

Grtz M

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Here's my two cents (devs take your notepads out:)

First of all make a good use out of loading screens. A static picture is boring and a bit of a let down before a flight. I suggest either a good mission briefing (weather, formations, target info) or, better yet, some essential specs of the plane you are about to fly (take off and landing speed, never exceed speed, range, etc). Another idea would be to play a short film during loading.

Also, I'm a big believer in making the GUI match real world locations on the base. I know the risk is that it comes out tacky but if done well it can be a good way of making you feel like you are a real pilot between sorties. So you would have a hangar where your plane would be available for inspection and pre flight walkaround. A private office where you manage your personal dossier or those of pilots in your section/squadron. Other rooms/buildings could serve other purposes. This worked well in other games (Silent Hunter 3 for example - I have not played 4 nor 5).

Put a lot of emphasis on every part of the interface. Switches can be made to look like old ones from the era. Music can be Edith Piaf or something played from a His Master's Voice gramophone.

Introduce gun camera where historically viable. Make it grainy. Make a separate room where you can view the footage.

I really liked the post action briefings where you could see exactly where you went and events such as crashes.

Have a realistic in flight map. One that looks like what the real pilots would have used. Have a cheat sheet with some notes on the aircraft, maybe some checklists. Make this cheat sheet look like real paper and make it selectable in realism settings.

That's all I can think of now but I might come back with more.

I wish you a fulfilling and productive time developing this project. I hope you have lots of fun with it!

 

 

JQB

Excellent post agree 100%

Even the loading screen in EAW had the plane flying around the globe.

It was nostalgic and fit the era portrayed. I believe Jason and crew think the same way, with the little i have seen of ROF. I downloaded it last night, but haven't got to play it yet. EAW and B17the mighty Eighth is my 2 games that really stick in my mind as games that have drawn me in. (Both single player also) EAW because of its briefings and GUI (hangar scene similar to what JQB was laying out. I like how the plane load out and pilot roster looked like it was written on a blackboard. So many little touches like that.

B17 8th was really deep in crew animation and interaction. Trying to help and keep alive all your crewman.. that you named with all of your real life friends! I had alot of intense flights in that game.. very entertaining indeed. :D

 

 

 

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Since most WWII planes will have closed cockpits, the sound of the wind, which I believe adds very much to ROF's feel of flight, will be largely gone. 

However, I don't mind as long as the engine's sound will be raw and powerful, which they were, I've heard the P-51 engine and B-25 engines IRL.

 

One thing which drastically adds immersion for me, will be proper smoke plumes, big ones. 

 

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/536945-4/Stalingrad

 

Doesn't that just give you goose-bumps?

 

Of course, this is a city on fire, not a supply-truck. I don't expect the same level of destruction, but please, don't make these those awful small smoke plumes, it makes my effort to complete the mission seem so worthless. :unsure: 

 

I can fly with tons of beautiful clouds in ROF, I hope a proper smoke plume isn't too much? 

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Immersion, to me, is not based on objects outside the cockpit: of course having a "living" airbase can be immersive, but only for a pair of minutes (takeoff, landing)... but think about how much time the developer need to waste for a feature like this.

To me, features that give immersion are clouds (in Condor clouds are my worst nightmare), bumps/vibrations (moving gauges) and every event who acts direcly on the plane as a realistic CEM, so that I need to carefully manage the plane, watching the gauges and listening to the engine.

 

In addition I would like some realistic interactive comms between me and the airbase. It's so important to have an informative radio who can vector you in realtime.

 

I'm used to play with many racing simulators and, really, the best ones are those who give you a good feeling to be inside the car: I really don't care of what is around the circuit...

Edited by 6SManu
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Simply put, Manu, this "in-cockpit-immersion" is far too little for me. That minimalistic approach has been given to us for the past ten years and I think it has pretty much killed off a good part of the new blood that may have been interested in sims. Boring and uninspiring presentation and a gameplay that doesn't even come close to the classics of the 90s isn't going to cut it in 2014, either. I want the cockpit feeling embedded into a historical perspective. Without that it's just pointless flying around ... to me history is the great scale that a sim project like BoS needs to measure up to.

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Since most WWII planes will have closed cockpits, the sound of the wind, which I believe adds very much to ROF's feel of flight, will be largely gone. 

However, I don't mind as long as the engine's sound will be raw and powerful, which they were, I've heard the P-51 engine and B-25 engines IRL.

 

One thing which drastically adds immersion for me, will be proper smoke plumes, big ones. 

 

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/536945-4/Stalingrad

 

Doesn't that just give you goose-bumps?

 

Of course, this is a city on fire, not a supply-truck. I don't expect the same level of destruction, but please, don't make these those awful small smoke plumes, it makes my effort to complete the mission seem so worthless. :unsure:

 

I can fly with tons of beautiful clouds in ROF, I hope a proper smoke plume isn't too much? 

Great picture there... poor guys.

 

I disagree about wind not influencing the sound.

 

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An external world that is alive.  Ships, trains, convoys, etc. that move and then react to an attack.  Sounds obvious enough but in the original IL2 it was only available in coops for most of its history.  One of the most impressive sights in IL2 was when, on a strafing run on a truck convoy, the men would empty from the trucks and scatter in all directions.  More of this please.

 

EDIT: Also, all of the working historical in-aircraft navigation tools that are possible to include.

Edited by VRStick
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I think we need to be realistic with what the devs can do.I would rather go the other way and have power ups for flying under a bridge for example, that give me more ammo or some extra wep.

And definitely a no cockpit view, with just a cross, for some instant fun.

Edited by JG52Uther

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I think we need to be realistic with what the devs can do.I would rather go the other way and have power ups for flying under a bridge for example, that give me more ammo or some extra wep.

And definitely a no cockpit view, with just a cross, for some instant fun.

LOL brilliant Uther!

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Simply put, Manu, this "in-cockpit-immersion" is far too little for me. That minimalistic approach has been given to us for the past ten years and I think it has pretty much killed off a good part of the new blood that may have been interested in sims. Boring and uninspiring presentation and a gameplay that doesn't even come close to the classics of the 90s isn't going to cut it in 2014, either. I want the cockpit feeling embedded into a historical perspective. Without that it's just pointless flying around ... to me history is the great scale that a sim project like BoS needs to measure up to.

I know Thor.

 

My issue with that your saying is that where will never be enough detail out there, and once we get used to moving trucks ect, then we'll demand for more.

 

I'm quite sure there will be people whining that the mechanics are not working in the right spot of the plane, that the truck's suspensions are not working correctly and ambulances turns too sharply, that the soldiers are moving like robots.

 

See, DCS has everything like that: starting up my A10 I can see soldiers guarding the airbase, and after I've landed I'm going to park next to the F16 who helped me with his SEAD mission. At first it's cool. But at last I realize that are only AI, it's so as scripted... I'm not finding immersion on being sorrounded by robots.

 

So, I would like 777 to concentrate on the real objective of the sim: I'm going to stay into the cockpit, inflight, the 99% of the time... I think that the detail needs to start from there, from the cockpit.

 

I would never like to have something like CloD again: I'm looking for a combat sim (and, if you know me, you'll know also that I'm not an arcade guy or a fulltime dogfighter), I'm not buying a game that I could only use to produce pictures and movies.

 

I hope you understand my point of view.

 

Edited by 6SManu
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I mentioned this on a different forum, but I really hope they implement the G-force movement from Cliffs of Dover. That was my absolute favourite feature of Cliffs, so combining that with the RoF viewing system would give a very immersive experience during flight.

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I think one of the biggest factors in immersion is AI.

If AI planes fly like robots it kills immersion very effectively.

And if there is enough variety (all pilots don't fly the same way and even same pilot doesn't always use same tricks), it makes the game much more immersive and interesting.

Much more than tweaking cockpit gfx so things look 10% better.

 

So I care mostly about the events when planes are flying more than what you see in briefing room, hangar and so on.

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I think we need to be realistic with what the devs can do.I would rather go the other way and have power ups for flying under a bridge for example, that give me more ammo or some extra wep.

And definitely a no cockpit view, with just a cross, for some instant fun.

 

Brilliant post JG52Uther!!!

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Well reading into the Dev diaries, it looks as though the cockpits aren't going to be click able. We do have to be realistic with what they will be able to accomplish in the amount of time they have and with the limited budget they have. I love the cockpits In CLOD..do I think they are feasible in this game at this moment in time? NO. Now granted we are used to no feed back from the Devs and ages between updates for the other game... That isn't how these guys work. They are constantly throwing out updates, communicating with the community..And are open to 3rd party mod content! Really ? We were dieing for any information we could wring out of the other Devs... How about we give them a chance and not try and derail the project before it gets off the ground.

Now on a more positive note! The physics engine on the other hand looked really impressive in the tank video...so some good news there. Explosions in ROF look awesome also! :) I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops. Will it be the perfect game out of the box?? Best bet is no... but at least if its not.. it will always have a chance to evolve. If its supported.

With that said.. I'm still going to fly CLOD (hoping it continues to evolve also..still lots of buried features that can be discovered with the help of some very talented community members. Who knows what will happen with the source code down the road.

I'm also looking forward to checking out ROF again, and giving it a fair chance since its going to be similar (engine) to what they are going to be using in BOS.

 

All I can say is Just give them a chance to get off the ground... No vulching yet Krupie! ;) S!

Edited by 352ndRibbs

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interactive cockpit is my idea of immersion, for example take 2 bitmaps

 

FuelOn.bmp

FuelOff.bmp

 

and some code.

 

if (FuelSwitch == On)

{

         LoadBitmap(FuelOn.bmp, blah, blah, blah) ;

         FuelFlow == 100 ;

}

 

else if (FuelSwitch == Off)

{

         LoadBitmap(FuelOff.bmp, blah, blah, blah) ;

         FuelFlow == 0 ;

}

 

 

Ok so LoadBitmap would probably be replaced by a DX9 function. But its hardly rocket science.

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interactive cockpit is my idea of immersion, for example take 2 bitmaps

 

FuelOn.bmp

FuelOff.bmp

 

and some code.

 

if (FuelSwitch == On)

{

         LoadBitmap(FuelOn.bmp, blah, blah, blah) ;

         FuelFlow == 100 ;

}

 

else if (FuelSwitch == Off)

{

         LoadBitmap(FuelOff.bmp, blah, blah, blah) ;

         FuelFlow == 0 ;

}

 

 

Ok so LoadBitmap would probably be replaced by a DX9 function. But its hardly rocket science.

 

It seems you are on the right track, might as well create your own CloD sequel. All you need now is to find that DX9 function. Good luck!

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It seems you are on the right track, might as well create your own CloD sequel. All you need now is to find that DX9 function. Good luck!

 

And a way to model a 3-Dimensional Bitmap. Unless he finds a 2D-Pit immersive.

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It seems you are on the right track, might as well create your own CloD sequel. All you need now is to find that DX9 function. Good luck!

 

and deal with an all out community war? No thanks lol

 

And a way to model a 3-Dimensional Bitmap. Unless he finds a 2D-Pit immersive.

 

yes it would have to be modeled, in something like 3DS Max, and then texture mapped. But they are already capable of that.

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Actually il2 campaigns allowed what they are asking above. It took a lot of work, but it was possible.

What would be needed here is that on set campaigns, a presentation viewer is called. With very little coding, you could use for that purpose some standard software for this, and let the sim make an external call to a viewer.

Whoever wish to build a campaign with that kind of content, will have the possibility without creating new software, or strange standards for something allready well known.

 

Hey Bearcat, you forgot the posiibility for the AI to get experience and fly better later. So people learn to care for their flymates, even when they are not human... and be extremely concerned when a good one dies... anyway, +1 to your idea.

I try to do that now. They say you willfight/play like you practice.

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I'd like to see randomality when interacting with the game's environment. Perhaps after going out on your assigned "scripted" mission, then random events could be generated on your return so you might see a train or a convoy where you may not have seen it last time. Having enemy A/C pop up randomly would be welcomed.

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My biggest wish would be a Large Scale Europe map for proper immersion.  Granted this is BOS, but eventually I can see this sim branching off to the Western Front.  Proper distance / escort missions.  The only thing I've witnessed thats been close is Cannon, and 352nd Cross Channel maps.  Granted its an insanely huge undertaking, but we haven't seen much of it since EAW, and B-17 2 (only 2 i'm familure with)

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A large plane set (of course this will take some time even after release).

 

Realistic missions in campaign/career modes (in terms of altitude, flight sizes, amount of air activity, etc.)

 

Intelligent AI (is that an oxymoron or what?)  ^_^

 

Reasonably populated map (villages, tank columns, static aircraft, etc.)

 

Something that hasn't been addressed in a combat flight sim, privately owned cars in streets?  Surely there would be cars scattered around Stalingrad... maybe not... I don't know.  But it could make the map "look" populated.

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I'd like to see randomality when interacting with the game's environment. Perhaps after going out on your assigned "scripted" mission, then random events could be generated on your return so you might see a train or a convoy where you may not have seen it last time. Having enemy A/C pop up randomly would be welcomed.

 

Yes, if we could have some controlled randomness in missions that would be really great.

I think there was a third party utility in works that tried to add this to IL2 missions but it didn't succeed in the end.

But having things like (train may start moving at start time + (0-5 minutes), enemy plane count (2-4 planes), AA gun position one of 3 possibilities.

Such things would add replayability to missions and would be great especially in multiplayer  use.

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To help immersion I'd like to see VVS AI programmed to do two things:

 

1. "Taran" (translated as "battering ram") in which a Soviet pilot, under certain conditions, would deliberately ram a Luftwaffe aircraft, with emphasis on bombers, to try to bring it down.  By 1942, with improved training, Soviet pilots were using this desperation technique less than they had in the opening months of the war during Operation Barbaraossa.

 

2. For Il-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Kursk, the follow-on to Battle of Stalingrad ;), I'd like to see  Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik unit ground attack tactics to include the "Circle of Death":

         By this time (July 1943), Shturmovik pilots had refined their tactics. Flying in attack groups of 8 to 12, in open country they would attack "soft" targets such as infantry or trucks by simply skimming in at 5 to 10 meters (16 to 32 feet) altitude. Against stationary "hard" targets such as bunkers they would use near-vertical dive-bombing attacks. Against armor moving in a column, they would proceed straight down the column or weave over it in a shallow S-curve, dropping their PTAB antitank bombs from an altitude of 100 to 150 meters (320 to 480 feet).

        Against armor in offensive formation, however, they preferred the "Circle of Death" attack, in which a Shturmovik group would flank around the enemy and then peel off successively, each Il-2 making a shallow diving attack, then pulling up and around for another pass. The beauty of the Circle of Death was that it kept the enemy under continuous fire for as long as the aircraft had fuel and ammunition. One Shturmovik pilot, Senior Lieutenant Alexander Yefinov, wrote: "We usually tried to attack from the rear, where the armor was thinner and where the most vulnerable components of the vehicles were located: the engines and the gas tanks." He proudly added that "the effect was staggering as Hitler's celebrated Tigers burned under the strikes." Il-2M3s armed with 37 millimeter guns were able to destroy Panthers and Tigers with their guns alone, blasting into their thinner top armor.

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For Il-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Kursk, the follow-on to Battle of Stalingrad ;),

I would not want to miss the Third Battle of Kharkov (Donets Campaign)...

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I would not want to miss the Third Battle of Kharkov (Donets Campaign)...

 

A good Kharkov map would be fantastic!

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2. For Il-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Kursk, the follow-on to Battle of Stalingrad ;), I'd like to see  Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik unit ground attack tactics to include the "Circle of Death":

         By this time (July 1943), Shturmovik pilots had refined their tactics. Flying in attack groups of 8 to 12, in open country they would attack "soft" targets such as infantry or trucks by simply skimming in at 5 to 10 meters (16 to 32 feet) altitude. Against stationary "hard" targets such as bunkers they would use near-vertical dive-bombing attacks. Against armor moving in a column, they would proceed straight down the column or weave over it in a shallow S-curve, dropping their PTAB antitank bombs from an altitude of 100 to 150 meters (320 to 480 feet).

        Against armor in offensive formation, however, they preferred the "Circle of Death" attack, in which a Shturmovik group would flank around the enemy and then peel off successively, each Il-2 making a shallow diving attack, then pulling up and around for another pass. The beauty of the Circle of Death was that it kept the enemy under continuous fire for as long as the aircraft had fuel and ammunition. One Shturmovik pilot, Senior Lieutenant Alexander Yefinov, wrote: "We usually tried to attack from the rear, where the armor was thinner and where the most vulnerable components of the vehicles were located: the engines and the gas tanks." He proudly added that "the effect was staggering as Hitler's celebrated Tigers burned under the strikes." Il-2M3s armed with 37 millimeter guns were able to destroy Panthers and Tigers with their guns alone, blasting into their thinner top armor.

Wouldn't give too much credit to the description of the tactics and the results ... for the soviets often mistook the up-armored Panzer IV (with the Sch????rzen) for Tigers. ;)

Besides the VVS paid a high price for its growth in early 1943. For example the disastrious "surprise attack" on the german airfield at Kharkov on July 5 1943 was flown with aircrew of which 93% had no frontline experience at all! Imagine sitting in an aircraft on your first combat mission with all the nervousness and insecurity and suddenly be bounced by a fighter flown by a man with 150 or 200 combat missions under his belt ...

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What are your immersion ideas?

 

Interaction with others sims, like tank simulator, FPS and similar.

 

I know this has nothing to do with the simulator, but I'm a player of Il2 1946, without engine management, without interactive cockpit, with an older graphic engine, and I'm happy with Il2 1946 multiplayer experience. 

For me, if 777 studios change the actual Rise of Flight, including new maps and WWII aircraft...sufficient for me, I don't need another Clift of Dover (For me an excellent simulator, but I prefer Il2 1946 that Il2 Clod, Why?...beacause I dont' need more to play at one flight sim that Il2 1946 has). ;)

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Yes, if we could have some controlled randomness in missions that would be really great.

I think there was a third party utility in works that tried to add this to IL2 missions but it didn't succeed in the end.

But having things like (train may start moving at start time + (0-5 minutes), enemy plane count (2-4 planes), AA gun position one of 3 possibilities.

Such things would add replayability to missions and would be great especially in multiplayer  use.

Try my Operation Sunlight mission on the ATAG server or on the AUS_Nations@war server. It has random vehicles, trains etc. Random number of Ai planes in Ai flights. Airbase comanders monitor enemy activity over their airfields & will order-in more AA defences if they are frequently attacked. Hell, even the airfields will randomly upgrade their aircraft from time to time ie. An airfield with only a Bf109E-1 when you start the battle will suddendly get upgraded to having both Bf109E-1 & Bf109E-3's, hurricane Rotols upgraded to hurricane 100octane etc.

Edited by Salmo
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I'd really like to see the engine exhast flames at startup and at dawn/dusk/night similar to what CoD had. As for a feature RoF has that I really liked was wind noise. It really gave you the sensation of speed. I know most ww2 planes are closed canopies but when we open them up at least have some noise then.

 

I'd also like to see a really nice looking GUI. Since I love RoF GUI already I'm sure this won't be a problem.

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