Open Letter to Devs

[e345spd]

Completely agreed.

 

 

I've only mentioned the presets once because I understood that greater configuration complexity can increase the difficulty of debugging and pinpointing issues. I assumed the previously existing configuration options would make a return after the initial release had time to 'settle', let's say. 

 

Rather disappointed to hear otherwise. At the very least, we should have the ability to edit configuration files and have the engine reference them as needed to achieve the experience we desire ( namely graphics & FFB tweaks that would allow problems such as my and Quax's reversed condition forces to be resolved without a single support ticket... Full and correct MSFFB2 support was an advertised feature, after all).

 

Hide the switches in the config files or comment them out so they will only be enabled completely intentionally. So many superior options to the 'users are incapable' style of response.

 

 

Apparently, I have no choice but to create a support ticket to resolve an issue that could have been resolved in 10 min. without bothering anyone from 777 or 1C.... I know what the problem is and I'm 99.99% sure I know exactly how to fix it, yet I'm limited due to fear of support tickets that you are going to force me to create.... Illogical, to say the least.

 

 

I think the majority of us are capable of understanding that end-user customization should be reversed before support tickets are submitted...Perhaps remind us of this during the submission process, rather than locking us down and out.

 

 

Bearcat is definitely correct, we would rather have an answer than nothing. However, this answer is lacking a logical basis in reality. Let's be frank: I fully expect problems from these titles, as I've *never* experienced one (out of every one produced thus far...) that doesn't require some level of manual adjustment. Not sure why you think we've all become 12 year old children with no prior experience with your software.

Edited December 1, 2014 by e345spd

[Cybermat47]

I think threads like this are important.

 

People being able to express discontent with the game tell the developers what their customers want, which will help them refine the game until it's the best flight sim since 1946.

 

Anybody who says that the game is perfect as it is, and that people should stop complaining, is actually hurting the game.

 

If people hadn't expressed their opinions about Gay Rights, Gay marriage would still be illegal all over the place. If no-one had expressed their opinions about the Apartheid, Black people would still be considered inferior.

 

Of course, the state of BoS is hardly as important as the above issues. But the point still stands. If people don't like something, and express their dislike (hopefully as peacefully as possible), the people who can change things for the better will change things for the better.

 

Of course, restraint has to be used when expressing displeasure with BoS. No more ridiculous flame wars, please. Those are just embarrassing.

[DD_bongodriver]

 

 

Not sure why you think we've all become 12 year old children with no prior experience with your software.

 

This..........although I fear it may be more along the lines of them making the software compatible with the 12 year olds they hope to attract to the game, the 12 year olds who think customising a game is entering a player name and difficulty level.

[SYN_Jedders]

I hate to bring it up, but "Artists" like Bieber do very well out of 12 year olds

 

Lets hope they can get enough revenue from us "enthusiasts" so as not to go that route....who knows...

[Mysticpuma]

All I would say is that if you are determined to keep the presets...at-least just add one tick box to turn SSAO on or off....just that one..please!

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

All I would say is that if you are determined to keep the presets...at-least just add one tick box to turn SSAO on or off....just that one..please!

I agree.

[SYN_Jedders]

+1000

[BlackDevil]

...at-least just add one tick box to turn SSAO on or off....just that one..please!

 

 

[Tektolnes]

Hi Arfsix. I understand that, however we have no plans about changing the graphical preset system. 

 

Why not? Can we have a clear unequivocal answer why you will not even let us change the graphics config file to make the game look better? 

 

If we are going to be completely stuck with only graphical presets can you let us know if you at least plan on fixing the badly implemented SSAO which causes a grainy film to appear or better yet allow users to switch SSAO off completely? This current approach of forcing a broken SSAO on for everyone who wants to run the game at high / ultra settings is completely daft. 

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

Why not? Can we have a clear unequivocal answer why you will not even let us change the graphics config file to make the game look better? 

 

If we are going to be completely stuck with only graphical presets can you let us know if you at least plan on fixing the badly implemented SSAO which causes a grainy film to appear or better yet allow users to switch SSAO off completely? This current approach of forcing a broken SSAO on for everyone who wants to run the game at high / ultra settings is completely daft.

 

Amen.

[1./JG42Nephris]

The more information for future outcome of the game I get, the less it gets interesting and the more I am annoyed for being a beta supporter.

Rediculesss one could get the game for 15bugs right now.

Still no recommendation for the game which is obviously no simulation.

I paid 90bugs for being bondaged in presets & unlocks although I could get the same stuff for 15bugs, priceless.

It doesnt matter if I would have to unlock planes in my freetime for the 15$ version, I have to do that also with my unlocks in a 90$ version.

Simple russian maths that must be.....

[FuriousMeow]

If they pay $15 and get 2 planes, but can unlock them with "their real life time" - it better take much longer than it took for me to unlock the mods/weapons/skins for each plane.

 

You can't go "$90 - 8 planes, but you have to grind for unlocks that takes several offline campaign missions" and then "$15 - 2 planes, but you have to grind for both planes and unlocks - however you only have to invest the same amount of in-game time in the campaign as the people who paid $90 to get both the other 6 planes and the unlocks."

 

If that's the case, $90 should get everything - all skins and unlocks. We shouldn't have to do any unlocking, otherwise it was literally a rip off.

 

Let's take War Thunder, because that is obviously the premise for this terrible idea. There you can play for free and spend your real life time grinding away to get the next plane, OR you can pay and get the plane. Some will pay to get the plane, and skip the grind. That also includes every facet of that plane/planes from what I recall. No grind needed, you don't have to waste time since you paid for it. Or you can grind and spend hours/days to get the plane. Here we paid full price, but we still have to grind. That is a frankenstein of the War Thunder model and even worse, and the War Thunder model is terrible. We paid $90 and we still have to grind, that isn't how that should work. Pay $15, yeah grind away and it should take a long time - but pay $90 for the planes, all skins/weapons should be included for those planes and not a minute of grinding required. That is how it works in that awful War Thunder arcade game, so if you are going to base the pricing model off that garbage at least make it a fair model.

 

I know you want to make more money because RoF barely did, but that was WWI and this is WWII and far more lucrative than WWI. You don't have to go for the penny pinching arcade model, and if you do - don't drop it on those that paid full price to skip that silly model.

Edited December 4, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[FuriousMeow]

Basically the way I see it, we spend $90 and we have to spend the exact same amount of real life time in the campaign unlocking as individuals that pay $15 - that is what it appears to be right now. We may just be unlocking historical weapons and skins, but we paid more and we have to spend the same time grinding while we paid 4 times as much. And that right there is BS.

Edited December 4, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[SharpeXB]

I am enjoying the "grind". Nothing about this game is boring or tedious. It's fantastic.

[FuriousMeow]

But you paid $90 to grind for the same amount of time as someone who paid $15. We may already have the planes, but to get everything else - we have to go through the same full grind scale to get the skins and weapons that were somewhat commonly outfitted on these aircraft as someone who paid a fraction of the cost we did.

[Tektolnes]

Basically the way I see it, we spend $90 and we have to spend the exact same amount of real life time in the campaign unlocking as individuals that pay $15 - that is what it appears to be right now. We may just be unlocking historical weapons and skins, but we paid more and we have to spend the same time grinding while we paid 4 times as much. And that right there is BS.

 

This completely echoes my thoughts on the whole thing. How Loft could not either understand this or be made to understand it during game design discussions is simply staggering. Between this and the decision to omit custom graphic options he's made some extremely bad calls which have had a major negative impact on how the game is being perceived by just about everybody. Anybody could have seen this coming but he's clearly too pig headed about what he thinks is right. He definitely needs to listen more to, oh I don't know, maybe a commercial manager who actually understands the Western marketplace. There's a lot of good stuff in BOS but some really bad design choices that have no place in a flight sim and could be so easily rectified are really hurting how it's being received. If there are future iterations of BOS I can only hope that Loft doesn't have as much power to make these bad commercial decisions in the future. 

[BFsSmurfy]

^^^

I`m with him, history is full of people who ruled without reproach messing things up. Great game, great potential, piss poor appreciation of what the people who`ll be here in 5 years time want.

[JG1_Lipfert]

I am enjoying the "grind". Nothing about this game is boring or tedious. It's fantastic.

 

  Did you actually sit on the Teacher's lap at school or just the desk ? 

Edited December 4, 2014 by II./JG1_Lipfert

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Gas prices are vastly different in different parts of the world. Oil is pumped from the ground and refined in just a few parts of the world. It is essentially the same gas by the time it gets to the user. Why is the concept of, "what the market will bear," so difficult to grasp here?

[DD_Crash]

The price difference of the game doesnt bother me, its the very real possibility of the game crashing and burning due to some illogical design decisions. Shame really.

[1./JG42Nephris]

Gas prices are vastly different in different parts of the world. Oil is pumped from the ground and refined in just a few parts of the world. It is essentially the same gas by the time it gets to the user. Why is the concept of, "what the market will bear," so difficult to grasp here?

A comparison which goes slightly off track and is not correct at the end, as a game doesnt depend on taxes.

However I go with DD_Crash, it will most probably be the decisions which make the game crash, not the quality of the raw game and not  the suspicious price offers.

Edited December 4, 2014 by 1./JG42Nephris

[Chuck_Owl]

No, they need to spend real hours of their personal life to get these planes.

 

And we who paid real bucks don't get to spend real hours of our personal lives to unlock what we paid for?

 

These hours felt kinda real for me.

Edited December 4, 2014 by 71st_AH_Chuck

[SOLIDKREATE]

Hope you're wearing your hardhats and flame proof suits guys because the BoS Defence League are on their way, and boy are they gonna let you know you're wrong ...

 

 

Defense League!!!!   ASSEMBLE!!!!  

[JG1_Lipfert]

So blessed to be able to continue my education here in the forum.....I'm privy to experts in all fields not the least of which is economics, sociology and the absolute best two.....ethics and psychology.

 

Now you can add the school of bat*hit crazy 

[SCG_Neun]

Now you can add the school of bat*hit crazy 

Oh Lipfert...I've had a basic Guano 101, but I'm so looking forward to the more advanced courses.....Hope you've been doing well...I see you've been swimming in the English Channel again......

[SharpeXB]

But you paid $90 to grind for the same amount of time as someone who paid $15. We may already have the planes, but to get everything else - we have to go through the same full grind scale to get the skins and weapons that were somewhat commonly outfitted on these aircraft as someone who paid a fraction of the cost we did.

What some call "grinding" (never heard this term before) I call playing. I paid for a game. I've got one and it's great. It's good fun to have something to achieve and win. Even in a flight sim. I'm as hard core with this stuff as anyone but I don't mind playing for unlocks, it's actually fun.

[SharpeXB]

  Did you actually sit on the Teacher's lap at school or just the desk ?

 

Surprising as it might sound, I actually WANT to play this sim for hours and hours and hours. If that gets achievements or awards, so much the better.

Just checked multiplayer tonight and there's a whopping 4 people online... Good thing theres a single player campaign. That's why all this complaining about being "forced" to play sp makes no sense. SP is the only game mode that's readily available.

[SOLIDKREATE]

Surprising as it might sound, I actually WANT to play this sim for hours and hours and hours. If that gets achievements or awards, so much the better.

Just checked multiplayer tonight and there's a whopping 4 people online... Good thing theres a single player campaign. That's why all this complaining about being "forced" to play sp makes no sense. SP is the only game mode that's readily available.

 

 

Me too!

[FuriousMeow]

What some call "grinding" (never heard this term before) I call playing. I paid for a game. I've got one and it's great. It's good fun to have something to achieve and win. Even in a flight sim. I'm as hard core with this stuff as anyone but I don't mind playing for unlocks, it's actually fun.

 

Grinding is common among games were you have to spend in-game time playing to level up to get better whatever or additional items. It is a very common term in War Thunder, plus other games like World of Warcraft, etc.

 

I play almost exclusively online, the campaign I don't care for. if I play offline, its typically the QMB or one of the other missions that have been built.

 

First of all, I shouldn't be forced to play SP to get items to use in MP.

 

Second of all, again, I paid $90 but I have to spend the same amount of time playing the SP campaign - which I do not want to do - to get all of the "unlocks" as someone who paid only $15. As far as I can see, there is no difference between paying $90 and $15 for the game aside from the amount of money you paid. The $15 pack will get the same everything, except the founders skins and a gold forum tag, as the $90. They spend the same amount of "real life time" in the campaign to get all of the aircraft and unlocks as we do for just unlocks.

 

Its fun and I love playing BoS, but I just don't get why the hell I paid $90 if the $15 version will end up with the same stuff and even requires the same amount of campaign play time to get it all. I come away from this feeling like I got swindled. The RoF model was so much better.

Edited December 5, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Bearcat]

I am enjoying the "grind". Nothing about this game is boring or tedious. It's fantastic.

 

I am glad you like it but for me it is terrible.

 

What some call "grinding" (never heard this term before) I call playing. I paid for a game. I've got one and it's great. It's good fun to have something to achieve and win. Even in a flight sim. I'm as hard core with this stuff as anyone but I don't mind playing for unlocks, it's actually fun.

 

I have never liked campaigns. I still don't. I want to fly a sim.. any sim.. they way I want to fly it. I bought it I want to fly it how I want to. I prefer online and single missions or quicks over campaigns .. I don't care about badges or medals or points or any of that nonsense... to me it is nonsense..

 

Surprising as it might sound, I actually WANT to play this sim for hours and hours and hours. If that gets achievements or awards, so much the better.

Just checked multiplayer tonight and there's a whopping 4 people online... Good thing theres a single player campaign. That's why all this complaining about being "forced" to play sp makes no sense. SP is the only game mode that's readily available.

 

I want to do just that.. but I don't want to be forced to do it a certain way...  It is what it is so I am only going to complain but so much.. but I am not happy about it and I won't pretend to be. I go through the motions of this silliness under duress and because I am forced to.. which makes it not fun. It is supposed to be fun. I have a job that pays me that I work at.  This is work. This should not be work.

 

Options. The operative word.... and any sim developer who looses sight of that will have far less success than any who are mindfull of that.

[BFsSmurfy]

Bearcat get your bass out mate and play that more, I`ve spent more time on the guitar in the last 2 months than ever before, strangely enough I seem to be enjoying myself and the FX unit doesn`t flash and dock me 500XP if I bum note anything.

Edited December 5, 2014 by BFsSmurfy

[Sparrer]

100% agreed with bearcat

Edited December 5, 2014 by Sparrer

[Sparrer]

S!

Just speculating:

The il2 site, that's probably very outdated, describes the sales:

600.000 copies to the rest of the world
+
650.000 copies only in russian market

=1.250.000.  (probably much more, specialy with steam now)

 

http://il2-sturmovik.de.ubi.com/en/history.php

So, that the significance of the russian market, more than half of the sales

And Bos, shall reach the 200.000 copies at least.

Maybe, thats the reason for the unlocks, to put the $12 selling plan on russian market to increase the sales. And maybe thats why we "the rest of the world" are complete ignored.

Someone knows how is the acceptance for the unlocks in russian forum/community?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Sparrer

[=LD=Hethwill]

Same as international.

[SharpeXB]

 I play almost exclusively online, the campaign I don't care for. if I play offline, its typically the QMB or one of the other missions that have been built.

I play both MP and SP. I used to be MP almost exclusively in RoF but that was because there were not decent SP options available. Trying to be MP only is really, for me, not feasible because.

Most of the time the servers are empty, in this and most other sims.

Most MP is "Normal" mode

You can't pause MP. SP is just more accessible. If I only played MP I'd only do these games once a week. So a good SP game is mandatory for a flight sim. That's probably the case for the majority of players. So being "forced" to play SP is not an issue. The campaign is easily accessible, the short missions can be flown in 30 minutes or less.

[Brano]

In Slovakia it is sold on game sites for 33€.Hard to say from description if it is premium or standard version.So here in my country,we are cheaper then west yet still part of EU.Come visit us and do your shopping!

[I./JG1_Baron]

It is standard version.

[SharpeXB]

i think we should be all happpy if the game got sold to the chinese by one euro, hell one cent

Yes. I don't care what price other people in the world pay for this game as long as it sells! For myself, do I feel there was "value" in my $99 price? Absolutely! In fact if this game was selling in the U.S. for 1/10th of that price I would be extremely worried.

It's clear that many of the choices made for this game (difficulty settings, unlocks maybe even graphics presets) are driven by this model to monetize the product. If that makes them more money. Good! That means more future content and new games. I see nothing wrong with that. Its a new era for flight sims. It's not possible that same model that worked in the past, such as for 1946 is going to work again. So don't expect it.

[=LD=Hethwill]

Regarding prices... 1 string of hair is nothing on a bald man's head but is a lot in a plate of soup at your favourite restaurant.

 

So are $12.