Popular controllers (joysticks etc) for upgrade?

[Crockett]

I've had my CH Combatstick, Pro Throttle and Pro pedals for years now and they've served me well but they're finally giving me trouble and I'm ready to upgrade. What are some of the popular (and newer) joysticks, throttles and pedals that other flyers are happy with and using?

[cardboard_killer]

57 minutes ago, Crockett said:

I've had my CH Combatstick, Pro Throttle and Pro pedals for years now and they've served me well but they're finally giving me trouble and I'm ready to upgrade. What are some of the popular (and newer) joysticks, throttles and pedals that other flyers are happy with and using?

 

Taste's vary, but these are the main popular higher end choices:

 

VKB (midrange offering and high end offering)

Virpil

WinWing

Thrustmaster's high end pedals (TPR) and HOTAS (less so the stick)

Slaw pedals

MFGs crosswind pedals.

Edited May 30 by cardboard_killer

[Aapje]

There's also force feedback (VPForce, FFBeast and Moza), although at a bigger expense.

[J37_Spyboy]

@Crockett

cardboard_killer has some great kit for sale. Here 

 

[jollyjack]

Looking at prices and value for money i still do not regret buying a Thrustmaster warthog set. Was once on sale at Amazon. 

Bough a Deltasim joystick extra button for rudder use with the throttle unit. Much later got crosswinds pedals, which i rarely use and might sell. 

[[CPT]Crunch]

For the quality you do get Thrustmaster's are way over priced.  There's plenty that's far better but slightly higher.  Get a smooth quality throttle that won't wobble on it's plastic levers like a wartfart, or stick that has actual all metal with ball bearing gimbals and swap out adjustable cams for precision flying for the feel you want.  Thrustmaster has so much plastic they need to cheat and place weights into the unit to make it feel like a heavy high end stick, other manufactures who actually make them all metal have no such need to deceive. 

 

If your flying WWII an extension these days is mandatory for maximum fun and realistic feel.  Next gen Korea they've already stated they're putting in specialized controller options for high end sticks with extensions.     

[Crockett]

On 6/12/2025 at 3:06 PM, [CPT]Crunch said:

Get a smooth quality throttle that won't wobble on it's plastic -- or stick that has actual all metal or stick that has actual all metal with ball bearing gimbals and swap out adjustable cams for precision flying for the feel you want and swap out adjustable cams for precision flying for the feel you want

First -- I want to thank all who have replies to my question!

Cardboard Killer (above) gave me several links and I've looked all all of them but still am not certain which to buy. I like quality and want to take your advice regarding metal with ball bearing gimbals -- but after reading all the advertising, I'm not sure which flight sticks and throttles are metal with ball bearings! Can you please give me your knowledge of which manufactures make them all metal? Thank you in advance!

[Aapje]

Just so you know, real sticks are made of resin, and metal is mostly a gimmick for flight grips. Lots of people like it better, but there doesn't seem to be a functional or durability benefit over good plastics.

 

Anyway, top tier are the FFB bases with a good grip. These can get pretty expensive, and it is relatively young technology, so can be challenging to get working right.

 

A tier below that you have the VKB Gunfighter & Virpil Mongoos. The Virpil WarBRD is slightly worse, with the main downside that it doesn't work as well with extensions.

 

Then below that you have the Winwing Orion2, which is a Chinese brand with poorer service and QA. So you can get bad luck and end up with issues and have them unwilling to fix it. They are cheaper, though.

 

Then in theory below that is the Virpil CDT-AEROMAX-R Flightstick. This is an all in one with metal cams, so in theory this will be a top tier mid-range option. But it is not out yet and only available in pre-order.

 

Below that is what for a long time and arguably still is the king of the mid-tier, the VKB Gladiator. Also an all in one, but with plastic innards. Those innards are very well designed though and for the money it is very good.

 

Then one step down is the Winwing Ursa Minor, which is basically a cheap rip off of the VKB Gladiator. Too cheap though, as many people seem to be having issues with it.

 

Anything below that is crap.

 

If you want metal cams and grip, you have to get one of the separate base and grip options, and then the Winwing Orion2 or up.

 

So that's it for the joysticks. For throttles, I think that the VKB STECS (standard) is the best (and I have one). Then a little below that the Virpil VMAX and Mongoos throttles.

 

Then below that, the Virpil CDT-VMAX and the Winwing Orion2 throttle.

 

For pedals, top tier are the MFG Crosswind, Slaws, Virpil R1 Falcon and Thrustmaster TPR. The TPR has a different movement style, which you may like or dislike. The Crosswinds and Virpils are the best bang for the buck among these, although still quite expensive.

 

A very good set of pedals are the VKB ones, but they lack toe brakes, which is a big downside for WW 2 planes. They have a lot of advantages for a modern jet desktop setup though, including an up/down movement, rather than forwards/backwards, which means that they work well with rolling office chairs.

 

Below that you have the Winwing offering.

 

Everything lower is crap.

 

Note that there is a lot of subjectivity here, and also some ergonomic considerations. For example, the VKB Gladiator works very well for small hands, while some of the top sticks require somewhat bigger hands. So people with very small hands can be better off with the cheaper product, since ergonomics beat moderately better quality any day of the week. But basically, once you buy at the VKB/Virpil-level, you are pretty much guaranteed to get a very good product, with good support.

Edited June 26 by Aapje

[Hoss]

Opinions... I love em.... 

[Crockett]

Lots to think about and I thank you for the input!

After looking at all the suggestions, I'm leaning towards VKB or Virpil products and interested in how easy or difficult the key mapping will be using the software from either one! Since my issue was with the CH Software I thought I should be careful about how difficult the software for key mapping might be -- since I think I'm probably a lightweight in that area. 

I watched a YouTube video where the guy indicated the VKB software was confusing. I also watched a YouTube video that seemed be an easy walk through of the Virpil software which would make me lean towards the Virpil.

Rather than just taking one video at face value regarding the software -- does anyone have thoughts on the ease of using either the VKB or Virpil software?

[Aapje]

I never failed to achieve what I wanted with the VKB software, but there is a bit of a learning curve to get the software. They have quite a few video's with all kinds of settings, though. And their discord has a bunch of experts that are always ready to help.

[Ojeda]

Virpil's software is also confusing. Virpil has inventory issues all the time; its deliveries tend to take a long time. We're talking a month or much longer.

[Crockett]

36 minutes ago, Aapje said:

I never failed to achieve what I wanted with the VKB software,

You seem to be very knowledgeable and I'm not even close to you -- so I'll stay away from VKB! I really appreciate all your input!

After I take delivery of whatever I order, I'll report on how I did with it! I've built my own last couple of computers but that was easy because I guess I'm a hardware kind of guy rather than a software kind of guy???

Thanks again!

[Crockett]

After looking at the prices and more input from you guys as well as watching more YouTube video's I went to the Virpil website and after looking at the prices, including the shipping and tariffs, I almost swollowed my tongue including an epileptic seizure! Then I saw the joystick base was on backorder!  So -- I figured I could deal with the VKB software if I watched enough YouTube video's -- probably because my CH Joystick & Throttle were rather simple by comparison and I may not require the new joystick and throttle to do as much as they're capable of doing! So -- I ordered a VKB Gladiator joystick and a VKB Throttle System Mk.II - Mini Plus Throttle. I didn't order their pedals because of the total cost. Those might come later and I'll let you know how I did once I get them set up! 

Thanks for all the information!

[Aapje]

Yes, prices can go very high. On the HOTAS subreddit, people are often shocked at the prices of even a solid mid-range setup, let alone a top tier one.

 

There is a twist-grip built into the Gladiator that you can use as a rudder, although I personally really disliked it, but you may get on with it better. Unless you manage to get just the pedals working from your old setup, of course.

 

As for the VKB software, the first thing you have to do with it is a calibration at the start, and it nowadays has guides in the software, which should help a lot. Basically, you have to put the device into calibration mode and then push the axis-based controls to their limits. This is a one-time thing.

 

Then for the throttle, I have set up detents for WW 2 planes at about 70% and 90% of the detent frame. I keep an excel-sheet with the actual throttle percentages for each plane (as well as the convergence I use for them). When I switch planes, I use the software to change the throttle percentage linked to the detents. So the way it then works is that I can push right up the first detent for maximum cruise power, then I push to the next detent for maximum combat power, and push to the end of travel for emergency power.

 

It can be a bit of a learning process to figure it out, but it works very nicely for me. I can switch the plane configuration without having to restart the game, by just switching briefly to the VKB software and setting the right values. I can help you with it, if needed.

[Crockett]

16 hours ago, Aapje said:

I can help you with it, if needed.

Thanks for the offer. If I run into an issue I can't figure out, I'll take you up on it. I do plan to try and get my CH Pedals working but if I can't I'll likely order the VKB pedals because I can't see me liking the twist feature on the joystick after getting used to using pedals while flying! I once took flying lessons in a Cessna 172 and flying without pedals just won't do it for me!

 

I was looking an nearly $700.00 for the Virpil Joystick, it's base and the Virpil throttle I choose -- all without pedals! Couldn't go there even though I wanted metal innards! As it was -- what I ordered so far was less than $400.00!

 

Actually, I don't mind going through the learning process as long as it isn't too complicated. I'm retired -- so have the time and I'm not a software person but still have been known to spend days on one particular computer problem before finally solving it.  We'll see how this goes!

 

Thanks for the advice!

[Hoss]

Go take a look at the Flight Sim Expo and the WW Cyber Taurus FFB joystick base. It's insane...... 

 

[Crockett]

On 6/26/2025 at 4:06 PM, Aapje said:

A very good set of pedals are the VKB ones, but they lack toe brakes, which is a big downside for WW 2 planes. They have a lot of advantages for a modern jet desktop setup though, including an up/down movement, rather than forwards/backwards, which means that they work well with rolling office chairs.

I've tried to get my CH Pedals to work alone but have not been successful -- which leads me to believe I'll eventually be looking for new rudder pedals too. I'd like to stay with the same brand so am looking at the VKB rudder pedals. I can deal with the lack of toe brakes because I've never used them with my CH Pedals -- so no issue there! They have to fit under my desk and am concerned with their overall width! I've looked for their measurments at a number of links but haven't found any measurements.

Do you know their width at their widest?

[Ojeda]

 

[Crockett]

Dimensions = 380 mm?

Edited June 30 by Crockett

[Aapje]

Yes, 38 cm wide.

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0551/4739/7238/files/VKB-Sim_T-RdrMkIV_drw.pdf?v=1730832335

 

[Crockett]

On 6/27/2025 at 1:11 AM, Aapje said:

I can help you with it, if needed.

I received my VKB Gladiator NXT EVO and my STECS Throttle System Mk.II - Mini Plus and am highly impressed! I’ve now got more buttons and controls than I know what to do with!  

I also might be buying the VKB Rudder Pedals because I can't get my CH Pedals working! I wanted to try the twist function on the joystick first to see if I could deal with it before spending the extra money for the VKB Rudder Pedals! 

I watched a bunch of YouTube video’s about how to flash and calibrate the Joystick and Throttle! I ran the Bootloader then flashed and calibrated them one at a time -- or so I thought. When I fly in IL-2, all the buttons work on both the Joystick and Throttle the way I calibrated them! However, when I fly, the Joystick doesn't control the ailerons, elevators or rudders! 

I thought I calibrated the Joystick correctly and have "Joystick" checked in the game and the Joystick buttons are recognized in the game but I must be missing something because the Joystick doesn't control the control surfaces of the planes! Do I need to do something in the game settings-- or can you tell me what I might be doing wrong or missing?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8 by Crockett

[Aapje]

You need to bind the Plane control: yaw to the twist axis. So find that in the settings, open the assign window, and then twist the stick to assign that axis.

 

Then test it out. If it yaws in the wrong direction, rebind by twisting in the other direction, or invert the axis.

 

See the picture for the command, it's a little above where the mouse is:

 

Edited July 8 by Aapje

[jollyjack]

I missed the mention of TM's AVA base. At the price IMO a great improvement., but you'll need hardware trimming to your personal taste.

I still have a standard Viper TM joystick, and wonder what works better and has a few more buttons. 

 

------------------------

 

Below the twist is pointed to yaw trim, an error?  .... i don't have twist on my TM, had it once on a cheapo stick and found it useless BTW. 

 

2 hours ago, Aapje said:

You need to bind the Plane control: yaw to the twist axis. So find that in the settings, open the assign window, and then twist the stick to assign that axis.

 

Then test it out. If it yaws in the wrong direction, rebind by twisting in the other direction, or invert the axis.

 

See the picture for the command, it's a little above where the mouse is:

 

 

[Aapje]

On the DCS forum I saw a lot of people be disappointed with the AVA base. It is obviously a big improvement over the Warthog, but still behind the state of the art. I'd get a Virpil or VKB setup instead, unless ordering online is not an option and it is available locally.

 

And the picture is indeed from this forum. I'm not at my gaming PC right now, but it shows the command in the picture and I explained that it is visible above the cursor, not at the cursor location.

[jollyjack]

Just looked it up ...  seems USB recognition issues only, and just one post about it.

i have no such problems, only once that it's JoyID was changed from 2 to 4 after a windows update. Fixed with joyIDs.exe. 

 

You'll need to update the firmware, and calibrate it by pressing a hidden switch near the USB C connector and moving your stick around. 

One should even do that after changing the spring tension.

 

And also check for USB drivers present with USBdeview.exe, and uninstall the dead ones occasionally. 

 

I posted about it and it's fixed, problems due my own stupidity:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/375232-thrustmaster-ava-flightstick-stuttery-behavior-with-291711733-fixed/#comment-5659942

Edited July 8 by jollyjack

[Aapje]

The main issue with the AVA is that there are no clutch dampers, so you have pretty much no resistance at the center, resulting in a very wobbly stick at the center.

 

Both Virpil and VKB have dampers on their high-end bases, for a reason.

[czech693]

If you had the CH Throttle Quadrant, don't get rid of it.  I gave away my CH Products decades ago but kept the Quadrant and only replaced it a couple of years ago.  It's old school technology, but my first one last 20 years before it started to fade.

 

I've had Thrustmaster, Virpil, and VKB.  I use a VKB Gunfighter Mk.IV and throttle combo now.  I don't think VKB's configuration software is any more difficult than Virpil's.  Both way easier than Target for Thrustmaster.

Edited July 8 by czech693

[Hoss]

I like my AVA with an F/A-18 stick; I use the small collar, jet cams, and stiff springs, along with a 200 mm curved extension, and I adjust the curves extensively. I watch the cockpit stick and external control surfaces to see the extent of my stick's movement and theirs, and adapt accordingly. This has worked great in DCS, as you can fine-tune curves in their settings tab. I'm not a TM fanboy either; I've got a WW Super Taurus (legacy), PTO2, Onyour12 Master Arm panel, BlackHog A, K51 trim box, TM TPRs, and a Viper panel. No FFB for me.. If I were to go with another stick base, I'd get a Virpil CM50 with clutches. I'm hoping TM comes out with clutches as an add-on sometime in the future. And the AVA self-calibrates with a push of a button on the base... nice when you change out collars, cams, springs..... I no longer use TARGET for mapping because of the mix of controllers. It's only installed like SimAppPro for Firmware updates, or changing HATs, and buttons, from axis to DX buttons. I use RSMapper; it sees everything and lets me do as much as TARGET did.

Edited July 8 by Hoss

[Crockett]

2 hours ago, czech693 said:

If you had the CH Throttle Quadrant, don't get rid of it.

Why should I keep it?

[Crockett]

15 hours ago, Aapje said:

You need to bind the Plane control: yaw to the twist axis. So find that in the settings, open the assign window, and then twist the stick to assign that axis.

 

Then test it out. If it yaws in the wrong direction, rebind by twisting in the other direction, or invert the axis.

 

See the picture for the command, it's a little above where the mouse is:

I got the joystick working with your help! It's been so long since I've had to set up my joystick in IL-2, I forgot how to do it! I guess that comes with age!

However, I don't think I can get used to twisting the joystick to move my rudder! I flew an easy quick mission in a I-153 against the 3 engine German troop carriers and had a lot of trouble lining up for a shot. Then I flew a quick mission in a Mustang and had the same issue. I also had my feet on my nonfunctional CH pedals and found myself unconsciously moving them in and out for rudder control! I guess I'll have to break down and order the VKB Rudder pedals. Anyway -- thanks for the picture on the plane pitch & Yaw -- it did help!

I've got a bunch of buttons programmed and have to decide it's where I want them or do I need to change them! Nice problems to have in my old age!

[Aapje]

@Hoss

 

Of course there are people who are happy with the AVA, like you, but it is still objectively true that the Virpil and VKB alternatives have the option to disable the dampers to make them floppy at the center or to have the dampers enabled; but there is no option for the AVA to enable dampers. So the AVA simply has fewer options in how you configure it.

 

For the money they ask, I thus see it as an inferior product.

 

@Crockett

 

Yes, I also didn't get used to it and found it extremely unnatural. Rudder pedals are way nicer to use.

[czech693]

13 hours ago, Crockett said:

Why should I keep it?

Because it gives you six axis and six two-way momentary toggles (useable in IL-2), and is compact and doesn't take up a lot of desktop like Honeycomb Bravo.

[Crockett]

6 hours ago, czech693 said:

Because it gives you six axis and six two-way momentary toggles (useable in IL-2), and is compact and doesn't take up a lot of desktop like Honeycomb Bravo.

After you answered me, I couldn't visualize your "six axis and six two-way momentary toggle" comment -- so I Googled "CH Throttle Quadrant". I don't have a CH Throttle Quadrant -- I have a CH Pro Throttle! Much different and I'm sorry for the confusion!

Edited July 9 by Crockett

[Crockett]

Another question: I haven't tried all my planes but I've found 2 planes which don't recognize my VKB flight controls. Each of the various Albatros planes, the Fokker D VIIF and the Messerschmitt BF 109K-4 all fly using the joystick but the Halberstadt DII and Fokker Dr I don't! Any ideas why those 2 don't recognize the joystick or any other buttons and the others do?

[czech693]

That shouldn't be happening.  Did you assign any custom pitch settings to any particular aircraft, or are you using global for all of them?  Also, if you unplugged any controllers, when you re-plugged them in the number sequence could have changed.  But, that would effect all of the models.  Check data/input/devices.txt and see what the numbering is for the joystick and compare that to what you show in the Settings in the sim.   But, that would effect all of the models, too.  All I can think of is that you made some custom pitch settings and the joystick number was different.

[Crockett]

47 minutes ago, czech693 said:

That shouldn't be happening.  Did you assign any custom pitch settings to any particular aircraft, or are you using global for all of them?

I didn't assign any custom pitch settings that I'm aware of but I did play around with those settings while trying to figure out why the joystick wasn't working! So I must have done something then! So -- how do I see if I'm using custom pitch settings for those aircraft or see if I'm using global for all of them?

Edited July 9 by Crockett

[Crockett]

6 hours ago, czech693 said:

Did you assign any custom pitch settings to any particular aircraft, or are you using global for all of them?

I fixed it with your help! I did some exploring in plane controls and found where I'd set Fokker Dr I and the Halberstadt DII to custom and all other planes to Global. Once I changed those two planes to Global, they were fixed! 

I seem to remember when I first got Flying Circus, I played around with those settings. I don't know why that didn't affect the CH Joystick (when it was working) but everything is fine now -- except that I been my pedals.

I ordered the VKB Pedals last night -- so I expect them in about a week -- if the delivery time on the Joystick and Throttle is any indication!

Thanks for the help!

[Hoss]

Well, imagine that... they kept their promise....

 

 

 

I bought a set of both for the other sim, which shall remain nameless. 

 

They also have new extensions, both straight and curved. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crockett]

On 6/27/2025 at 1:11 AM, Aapje said:

It can be a bit of a learning process to figure it out, but it works very nicely for me. I can switch the plane configuration without having to restart the game, by just switching briefly to the VKB software and setting the right values. I can help you with it, if needed.

Another question!

I have a Gladiator NXT EVO ‘Space Combat Edition’ Joystick  and a STECS Throttle System Mk.II - Mini Plus already installed. I just bought the T-Rudders Mk.V Rudder Pedals. When I attempted to calibrate the Rudder Pedals I somehow clicked the wrong thing and now the Configuration software thinks I have a Gunfighter Modern Combat Pro joystick instead of the Rudder pedals! I looked to see how I could delete the Gunfighter Joystick but couldn’t see how to do it. So, I unplugged the USB cable to the Rudder Pedals and rebooted. The Gladiator NXT EVO Joystick and the Throttle only showed up in the Config software -- but then I plugged the Rudder pedals back in, it showed up as the Gunfighter Joystick again!

How do I delete the Gunfighter Joystick from the software so I can start over again?

I learned more:

What do the lights on the black box mean? When the software says the Gunfighter Joystick is connected, the light of the left is solid blue and of the 3 on the right top one is solid yellow and the bottom 2 are blinking red! When I click "Default" the lights on the box's rights all turn white then go off and the light on the left turns blinking purple and the software then says the T-Rudder pedals are connected. But the game doesn't recognize them when I try and bind them to "Rudder Trim Axis"

Also when I try and configure the T-Rudder Pedals (when it says they're connected), the software changes to what is connected from T-Rudder pedals to the Gunfighter Joystick again!