Just saying.....

[jdu]

On 12/31/2022 at 1:26 PM, OBT-Eazy said:

 

Solution for you.
Build a real working oxygen mask and program an Arduino or any other microprocessor board that somehow retrieves the altitude of the player's plane. This Arduino will then regulate the oxygen supply in the mask (perhaps by reducing the oxygen level and increasing the nitrogen level) depending on the altitude.
If your system is operational and works as expected, then you can market (or open source) this accessory as an add-on to increase the realism of the game.

DISCLAIMER: This is only an imaginative experience (Indeed, how can Dagwoodyt do something to improve the game?). Never reproduce this at home. This could have serious or even lethal consequences for your health.

 

2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Who is in charge😉

 

[Mysticpuma]

5 hours ago, FurphyForum said:

Got to ask, just so it's 100% clear, who is actually the driving force and is responsible for stated-set deadlines internally for TFS?

Buzzsaw

 

Edited October 3, 2024 by Mysticpuma

[BOO]

6 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

Buzzsaw

 

you sure?

 

[LuftManu]

Guys, keep it civil here, please!

I've hid a post that showed a moderated message that we hid a few days ago. Not going to take action yet, but I will be issuing warnings if we can't keep it civil.

 

Don't bring back moderated messages and specially those that are personal attacks. No remorse in taking action on those. Nobody should be attacked here.

So please, be respecful of eachother.

[Mysticpuma]

Back on topic.

Announced on September 23rd 2023, due for release in two months.

So the question is, how much of this is ready for release? How much is working, fully functional in game?

From TFS's own post:

 

"Key Features

•       18 new flyable types and variants are added with FORTRESSES AND FOCKE-WULFS – DIEPPE, allowing the players to experience aerial conflict over the English Channel from in the autumn of 1941 to the culminating moment of the Dieppe Raid in August of 1942.

•       A detailed new 1942 English Channel map with added landmarks, updated airfields and 4k terrain, large caliber Coastal Gun batteries, fortifications, minefields and defenses.

•       New tank, artillery and vehicle types added allowing the land battle to be recreated in detail.

•       Naval Vessels from the Royal Navy and Kriegsmarine are modeled including Scharnhorst Class Battlecruisers, Admiral Hipper Class Heavy Cruisers, Renown Class Battlecruisers, as well as destroyers and landing craft.

•       New aircraft detail including new engine technology like Turbo Superchargers, as well as more precise Flight, Damage, Propeller and Overheat modeling.

•       Improved graphics, including 4k textures for aircraft externals and cockpits, extended viewing distance, 4k terrain modeling, full 3D implementation for players with Virtual Reality headsets, updated vegetation and new cloud and weather systems.

•       Excellent multiplayer environment allows over 100 players and dozens of AI aircraft online simultaneously, providing for intense and challenging human versus human aerial battles.

•       New artificial intelligence routines and improved combat behavior for AI aircraft add to the excitement of detailed campaigns in Single Player for Luftwaffe, Royal Air Force and United States Army Air Force pilots.

•       New Quick Mission Builder provides the opportunity for faster and more detailed player created missions without the complexity of the Full Mission Builder.

 

New Aircraft

Focke-Wulf 190A-1

Focke-Wulf 190A-2

Focke-Wulf 190A-3

Messerschmitt Bf-109G-2

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-1

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-2

Junkers Ju-88C-6

Junkers Ju-88A-4

Spitfire Mk VC

Spitfire Mk VC 'Clipped Wing'

Spitfire Mk IXA

P-51A-83

P-51A-91

B-17E

Wellington III

Beaufighter VIC

Typhoon Mk IA

Typhoon Mk IB"

 

Edited October 4, 2024 by Mysticpuma

[Dagwoodyt]

On 10/1/2024 at 4:50 AM, BENKOE said:

Will all VR testers get the Release Version for free?

A DW-T install was required for VR beta participation😉

Edited October 4, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[FTC_Rostic]

21 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Back on topic.

Announced on September 23rd 2023, due for release in two months.

So the question is, how much of this is ready for release? How much is working, fully functional in game?

 

Oh, that is a nice question. And I would like to see answer in form of teaser video or a lot of nice screenshots.

 

But, I guess the main delay of announcements is uncertainty with VR implementation. And there is not much sense in releasing next big update without VR because today it is a BIG THING in *flight simulators community.

On the other hand, here is a results of poll in Flying Tin Cans group related to VR.
From this picture you can see that for 24% (from all the 113 VR and non VR players) it is absolutely essential to have VR in game.
VR is important but no essential for 14%.
For 62% it is absolutely OK to fly on flat screen.

 

But, I guess today percent of VR users in our group is significantly higher, because almost every weak there is some one writing in chat something like: "I got VR headset, need some help/advise how to set it up".

Oh, and this diagram showing how much we are waiting for "VR and Visual Update".

From poll done in the end of 2023.

Edited October 4, 2024 by FTC_Rostic

[Dagwoodyt]

49 minutes ago, FTC_Rostic said:

I guess the main delay of announcements is uncertainty with VR implementation.

Why would that excuse TFS from communicating with customers?

[BENKOE]

1 hour ago, FTC_Rostic said:

...  there is not much sense in releasing next big update without VR because today it is a BIG THING in air simulators community.

 

If you mean "flight simulators community" that’s quite a bold claim, and it’s rather hard to take seriously in its brevity.

 

For the sake of completeness: So far, TF presenting an ISA-like weather model that has nothing to do with the real atmosphere/air.

Edited October 4, 2024 by BENKOE

[FTC_Rostic]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Why would that excuse TFS from communicating with customers?

Remember Tesla Roadster?? Teasing to early is not a good thing some times

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, FTC_Rostic said:

Teasing to early is not a good thing some times

The problem is that we are not talking "some times"🙃

 

 

[marcost]

"Assuming the game is reasonably successful with its sales, we will go ahead with these developments"

 

Maybe it wasn't. Catch-22, anyone?

[Dagwoodyt]

5 minutes ago, marcost said:

"Assuming the game is reasonably successful with its sales, we will go ahead with these developments"

 

Maybe it wasn't. Catch-22, anyone?

Maybe that was feared from the outset and a reason to field the now clearly grandiose list of TF 5.0 enhancements to be provided for "free" at a later date. TF 6.0 was announced with a similarly improbable availability timeline. Updates are sparse and typically are images of 3D models with little context provided. For example, ask what is happening with the VU/VR and get images from TF 6.0. Ask about progress on TF 6.0 and get images from TF 6.5 and so on. Eventually communication and delivery patterns become apparent.

[Mysticpuma]

6 hours ago, FTC_Rostic said:

 

Oh, that is a nice question. And I would like to see answer in form of teaser video or a lot of nice screenshots.

 

But, I guess the main delay of announcements is uncertainty with VR implementation. And there is not much sense in releasing next big update without VR because today it is a BIG THING in *flight simulators community.

On the other hand, here is a results of poll in Flying Tin Cans group related to VR.
From this picture you can see that for 12% (from all the 113 VR and non VR players) it is absolutely essential to have VR in game.
VR is important but no essential for 7%.
For 81% it is absolutely OK to fly on flat screen.

 

But, I guess today percent of VR users in our group is significantly higher, because almost every weak there is some one writing in chat something like: "I got VR headset, need some help/advise how to set it up".

Oh, and this diagram showing how much we are waiting for "VR and Visual Update".

From poll done in the end of 2023.

So based on this, most players are okay with 2D, but the defacto standard has to be VR for any release now. So the whole process is held up for VR based on either 7% or 24% depending which poll is considered. 

 

The defining point of this though is that TFS have painted themselves into a corner because of they release without VR, firstly players who are already flying VR will stick with what they have, and maybe wait.

Players without VR will likely consider it not a full release, due to missing features and wait for the full package to be released. In the interim,  the release would show poor sales, but long term, everyone would still be where they are now, waiting or being an early adopter of a full price expansion with a further promise of VR 'soon'.

Currently VR is nowhere near soon!

 

 

 

 

And the question still stands;

 

[FTC_Rostic]

16 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

Currently VR is nowhere near soon!

 

 

I do not think so.

It is there. Guys in my squad with VR headsets saying that it is implemented very well.

 

The problem is that is is still unstable... for some testers.

 

However, one of squad mates reported no crashes in latest build, and that looks promising.

[FTC_Rostic]

Also I updated percents in my original post, due to I interpreted second diagram wrong. That one shows answers for VR and NON VR players, not just VR ones.

Edited October 4, 2024 by FTC_Rostic

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, FTC_Rostic said:

 

I do not think so.

It is there. Guys in my squad with VR headsets saying that it is implemented very well.

 

The problem is that is is still unstable... for some testers.

 

However, one of squad mates reported no crashes in latest build, and that looks promising.

It's been like that for the last 12 months at least, to the point where they have had to disable virtually all the features just to get the tests to run.

 

[BENKOE]

Hello @FTC_Rostic, @Mysticpuma,

 

You’re both part of the “Steam VR Beta Testing Community” which boasts several hundred members.

(If that’s not the case, now would be a good time to set the record straight.)

 

What could be simpler than sharing your experiences as Steam VR Beta Testers here (preferably in first-person), instead of dazzling with posts that are often somewhat vague?

 

Just saying ... ...

Edited October 5, 2024 by BENKOE

[BOO]

[FTC_Rostic]

1 hour ago, BENKOE said:

Hello @FTC_Rostic, @Mysticpuma,

 

You’re both part of the “Steam VR Beta Testing Community” which boasts several hundred members.

(If that’s not the case, now would be a good time to set the record straight.)

 

What could be simpler than sharing your experiences as Steam VR Beta Testers here (preferably in first-person), instead of dazzling with posts that are often somewhat vague?

 

Just saying ... ...

 

Unfortunately I'm a flat screen tester.

VR is way too expensive toy for me.

6 minutes ago, BOO said:

 

This is what happens when you have 100 tourists in testing team

[BENKOE]

Yes, unfortunately a flat screen tester in a  VR testing team at best is a tourist.

[FTC_Rostic]

In case you are just mislead by testing group name, I can bring more sense to testing process.

As far as I know TFS has just one group with rights to read topics published for testing purposes. It called "Steam VR Beta Testing"but in fact there are all kind of testers.

Due to game suppose to work fine not just in VR but on Flat Screen too, team need both types of beta testers.

Right now, due to there is a very specific builds are published, there is not much of a help from flat screen testers. From my side I brought some noise in a FTC group to bring attention of registered testers there, but so far only one of them ran tests and wrote reports.

When full build will be released I'll do my best to test it and report bugs, if I find any. So, far I can claim one reported CTD bug that was fixed, after which I was enjoying BETA for months, due to there were no serious bugs for "ftat screen" part of the game.

Can't wait when Visual Update will be release.

[Mysticpuma]

24 minutes ago, BENKOE said:

Yes, unfortunately a flat screen tester in a  VR testing team at best is a tourist.

Same as me, but not tourists. Invited in to test all the new features, but currently all builds are being created for VR only, so unfortunately,  we are staying in the hotel but not able to go on the excursions 

[FTC_Rostic]

Oh, and about term "tourist". It is a person who registered for beta testing just to sneak pick how it work in VR, not caring at all about reading testing task published by the team and writing reports )))

Otherwise that one dude should know why there are no trees, right now ))))

Edited October 5, 2024 by FTC_Rostic

[BENKOE]

A situation in which someone is blamed for something that goes wrong. That's finger-pointing, dude. 👎

 

1 hour ago, FTC_Rostic said:

A situation in which someone is blamed for something that goes wrong. That's finger-pointing, dude.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2024 by BENKOE

[BOO]

1 hour ago, BENKOE said:

A situation in which someone is blamed for something that goes wrong. That's finger-pointing, dude. 👎

 

 

 

I aint blaming him for something going wrong. Clearly he is blameless.  He aint even had the game installed for Christ knows how long or bothered to even look at what the Testers should be involved with. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2024 by BOO

[DD_Arthur]

3 hours ago, FTC_Rostic said:

Oh, and about term "tourist". It is a person who registered for beta testing just to sneak pick how it work in VR, not caring at all about reading testing task published by the team and writing reports )

Here’s how it works;

 

Cliffs is on Steam. It has pretty pictures of the most famous air battle in history.

Got a VR headset and joystick?

Wanna participate in a Beta?
Wow! Sounds glamorous and exciting and compared to most VR games on Steam it’s cheap. I’m in!!!

 

Result; TFS has gained a few much needed sales. 
 

Beta testing results; er…..🫣

[BENKOE]

Hey @BOO, read carefully. And then decide who was meant. 

[BOO]

26 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Here’s how it works;

 

Cliffs is on Steam. It has pretty pictures of the most famous air battle in history.

Got a VR headset and joystick?

Wanna participate in a Beta?
Wow! Sounds glamorous and exciting and compared to most VR games on Steam it’s cheap. I’m in!!!

 

Result; TFS has gained a few much needed sales. 
 

Beta testing results; er…..🫣

 

Nice and concise appraisal. 

 

18 minutes ago, BENKOE said:

Hey @BOO, read carefully. And then decide who was meant. 

 

Apologies if I misread but Im not clear on the point or who it was aimed at. 

[Dagwoodyt]

I believe that at one point TFS stated that anyone who wanted to experience the VR beta could join the VR beta team if they bought DW-T and submitted the required documentation.

   Also, introduction of VR as the reason that TFS won't engage with customers on status of TF 6.0 is a diversion from the original topic. 😉

Edited October 5, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[FTC_Rostic]

30 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

   Also, introduction of VR as the reason that TFS won't engage with customers on status of TF 6.0 is a diversion from the original topic. 😉

As a software developer (but have not much in common with game dev), I can say that reason for silence can be something like this. PR-manager asks devs: "Hey, how things going? Can I make announcement that this and this features already implemented?" But, he get answer like "Not yet, but I almost nailed it, wait a bit longer, ask me tomorrow...". So PR ask same question next day, and get same answer... and that can continue for months 😄 

Maybe there is other reason... Who knows??

Edited October 5, 2024 by FTC_Rostic

[Dagwoodyt]

On 10/4/2024 at 4:25 AM, FTC_Rostic said:

But, I guess the main delay of announcements is uncertainty with VR implementation.

 

7 minutes ago, FTC_Rostic said:

I can say that reason for silence can be something like this.

So the reason for TFS' unwillingness to communicate with its customers can be just anything we chose to imagine it to be? If so, then the "PR-manager" can be substituted for the bright colors of a graph even if less eye-catching😉

[jdu]

21 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

It's been like that for the last 12 months at least, to the point where they have had to disable virtually all the features just to get the tests to run.

 

🙄
I thins you are subscribed to the Atag forum.
Perhaps you haven't read the latest posts related to the latest beta version.
The aim is to identify the cause(s) of crashes and disable features is a common debugging practice.
Here you're only saying half the story!

 

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, FTC_Rostic said:

As a software developer (but have not much in common with game dev), I can say that reason for silence can be something like this. PR-manager asks devs: "Hey, how things going? Can I make announcement that this and this features already implemented?" But, he get answer like "Not yet, but I almost nailed it, wait a bit longer, ask me tomorrow...". So PR ask same question next day, and get same answer... and that can continue for months 😄 

Maybe the "PR-manager" is talking to himself.😉

[FTC_Rostic]

15 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Maybe the "PR-manager" is talking to himself.😉

 

Maybe they just want to brings to us really good news.... soon 😄

So, all that left for us, is just keep waiting.... and waiting.

Anyway, it is still about 3 months left, of...

 

 Also, postponing release date is not something new in gamedev.
Fingers crossed... I hope for the best
😄 

Edited October 5, 2024 by FTC_Rostic

[Dagwoodyt]

33 minutes ago, FTC_Rostic said:

Maybe they just want to brings to us really good news.... soon 😄

So, all that left for us, is just keep waiting.... and waiting.

Anyway, it is still about 3 months left, of...

Another thing that puzzles me about your suggestion of faulty VR implementation as a logical basis for dev' refusing to engage with customers is that VR apparently has always had problems with crashing Blitz. In fact it may have been crashing Blitz while still in alpha. To best of my recollection the VR beta was launched in February 2022. By your logic how would TF 6.0 have been announced by Fulqrum or the proposed nightfighter 6.5 and others?🤔

Edited October 5, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[FTC_Rostic]

11 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Another thing that puzzles me about your suggestion of faulty VR implementation as a logical basis for dev' refusing to engage with customers ...

I just made a guess... Hm... I actually did too much of of guessing....

There can be a lot of other reasons.

By the way. Even TF 4.312 was quite stable for me, and since BLITZ, I can't remember any other CTD, but one, when I switch on bombsight for first time in the middle of sortie. So, I got a rule to switch view to bombsight right after spawning - no more CTD in BLITZ for me after that 😄 

[Dagwoodyt]

40 minutes ago, FTC_Rostic said:

By the way. Even TF 4.312 was quite stable for me, and since BLITZ, I can't remember any other CTD, but one, when I switch on bombsight for first time in the middle of sortie. So, I got a rule to switch view to bombsight right after spawning - no more CTD in BLITZ for me after that 😄 

My experience has been different. I spent probably dozens of hours trying to get CloD and Blitz to stop crashing. TFS has apparently worked on that because I can now run it without crashes. I don't play it any more though since, well, no VR🙂 Even if TFS ever gets Blitz VR to market they face the problem of obsolescent UI that would become increasingly chaotic as number of installed DLC's increased. A good QMB would help a lot. Do you know if their QMB is working in the beta?

[FTC_Rostic]

2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

My experience has been different. I spent probably dozens of hours trying to get CloD and Blitz to stop crashing. TFS has apparently worked on that because I can now run it without crashes. I don't play it any more though since, well, no VR🙂 Even if TFS ever gets Blitz VR to market they face the problem of obsolescent UI that would become increasingly chaotic as number of installed DLC's increased. A good QMB would help a lot. Do you know if their QMB is working in the beta?

 

In last build for all testers (vr and flat screen) all features available in stable release worked in beta.

 

But I'm not quite sure what do you mean by QMB? Stable version has QMB since I get CloD ver.4.312. That one where you can select mission and change aircrafts as you like and spawn in any group you want  Always worked fine...

 

UI is definitely need some improvements. At least they can get rid of those fancy wallpapers and use simple and dark background so text can be easily readable always.

 

Default info windows layout can be made more clean.

[Dagwoodyt]

5 minutes ago, FTC_Rostic said:

But I'm not quite sure what do you mean by QMB? Stable version has QMB since I get CloD ver.4.312. That one where you can select mission and change aircrafts as you like and spawn in any group you want  Always worked fine...

On 10/3/2024 at 2:58 PM, Mysticpuma said:

•       New Quick Mission Builder provides the opportunity for faster and more detailed player created missions without the complexity of the Full Mission Builder.

The quote from MP refers to TF 6.0, but I thought that I had somewhere seen a new QMB teased as being part of the VU/VR update. Not so?