Can we unite when one of the Flying Circus Community Server is having an event...

[GenMarkof007]

S! All,
 

I was asking myself why are we not able to unite when one of the Community servers is having an event.
Since WW1 flight sims community is getting smaller with the years passing... I think it would be good if all of the WW1 pilots and squadrons tried to unite and make every event something to honour between us.

I am always surprised to see some pilots on specific event days, to be flying on other WW1 servers and splitting our community?!!
I do understand that some of the missions and maps may not be what you're looking for... but for the rest of the week and weekend, you can choose where you want to fly...

I know that my request will stir some emotions and remarks... but remember... the more that we split between us, the faster our main love of flying WW1 planes, might slowly die.

For new WW1 pilots, and for general information... here are the main community servers WW1 events each weeks:
-------

- Flying Circus Flugpark - WW1 Realistic Sunday event - by J5 Squadron:  Fame & Flame?!  - every Sunday at 1 pm (EST)
Featuring balanced historically based plane sets and settings in a variety of weather, no two missions are exactly the same! Join the largest formations seen over The Western Front during this weekly event.

* they also have two other events (Black September and Bloody April) - that are played inside a few weekends


- Flying Circus - Knights of the Sky Campaign events - by No10J18 Squadron:  Saturday Fly-In - every Saturday at 2 pm (EST)
Come join one of the largest battles across the Western Front!. Excitement is guaranteed! See you there!


- Flying Circus - Ad Astra events Great Air War - by IRFC:  Tuesday Aces Rising and Aces Falling - every Tuesday at 2 pm (EST) and at 8 pm (EST)
Join the Ad Astra Server for the weekly "Aces Rising" community event! Ad Astra primarily focuses on extreme immersion into Great War battles of 1916 and 1917. Smaller maps and unique objective placement provide optimal combat density at any player count.


-----

For those that like to practice online against AI pilots, feel free to join this server:

- WingWalkers WW1 COOP vs AI - Automatic Dynamic Missions - by WingWalkers:  Hop on when you feel like it... great missions.

-----

I really hope that we can keep all of those great community servers for many years!
Don't forget, all servers are not free... if you can help, it's always appreciated.

Cheers,
GenMarkof

p.s.: you can find all those squadrons Discord address on the Multiplayer servers channel in the Flying Circus tab. Thx +

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BMA_Hellbender]

Good post!

 

I have a few comments. If I could I’d temporarily remove my =IRFC= tag for this post, but @=IRFC=Artun would just tell me to tag up again and you wouldn’t see the difference anyway. ?

 

• People can fly wherever they like, I don’t think it’s a good idea to judge people based on their server preference. I don’t even have a real favourite server among the three you listed. Flugpark is for sure the most established of the three, and it’s my go-to on a Sunday whenever I am able, which also happens to be the busiest time of the week.
   
• In the interest of keeping it simple in a sea of WW2 servers in the multiplayer server browser list, I kindly request all FC servers actually add Flying Circus in front of their name, as Flugpark already does. I have trouble finding the others because I’m so used to scrolling down to F for Flying Circus Flugpark.
   
• There’s definitely some behind-the-scenes politics and power games going on between the establishment and the so-called newcomers/disruptors. I don’t have time for that s***. I typically have more occasions to read or post on the forum during the day, than to actually sit down in front of my PC, so my sim time is more than precious to me. In the end I think people should gravitate towards content, and should absolutely visit all places if they are willing and able. A good communication between all parties and a somewhat fixed schedule would do wonders here.

 

My €0.02.

 

[GenMarkof007]

S! @=IRFC=Hellbender

Thanks for your post.
I will try to answer your no 1 and 2 post... I'll leave no 3... since this is something that no one can really have any effects on things already done.

- I do agree that people can fly wherever they like... my post was more to see if we can try to fly each community events so the numbers are interesting for all sides and most pilots (new and old ones). It's always a question of numbers, if we want the impact of showing that WW1 flying is doing well. But I do understand that if someone doesn't have a version of Flying Circus (ex. early war planes), they might not be able to fly a specific mission on these community servers. Remember, that even if you don't have a specific plane, you can always ask and jump in a gunner seat!

- I do agree that all WW1 community servers should start with 'Flying Circus' and this was discuss with the community server squadrons. Again, the main goal for this is to make it easy for all WW1 pilots to find available WW1 servers.

Remember, the more we unite, the better we can keep flying WW1 planes, missions and campaigns!

Cheers,
GenMarkof

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

People should fly where they want to.   If you don't like a servers setup, plane choices, etc., then don't fly there.  As far as multiple servers, barely enough active online fliers to support one full time server.  IMO, 3 servers means low populations on all 3.  Hard to see that as a good thing, no matter how you present it.

I have no desire to recreate the ROF situation,  where people where constantly bouncing around from server to server, only to find the same situation on each..(few players)..   Better imo to concentrate on one servers with multiple missions for variety.   .02

A common place for us all to fly.

[BMA_Hellbender]

36 minutes ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

People should fly where they want to.   If you don't like a servers setup, plane choices, etc., then don't fly there.  As far as multiple servers, barely enough active online fliers to support one full time server.  IMO, 3 servers means low populations on all 3.  Hard to see that as a good thing, no matter how you present it.

I have no desire to recreate the ROF situation,  where people where constantly bouncing around from server to server, only to find the same situation on each..(few players)..   Better imo to concentrate on one servers with multiple missions for variety.   .02

A common place for us all to fly.

 

I agree that the community shouldn't be completely splintered, which is why a fixed schedule would be good, but a bare minimum of healthy competition needs to exist in order to keep server content fresh. Servers will simply cease to exist if they don't draw enough people, but if you have too few servers the missions inevitably get stale and you get a situation like RoF today of a truly dead game. In essence, the genre of WW1 multiplayer flightsims itself would be healthier and have a more active playerbase if there was another modern WW1 flightsim on the market, which would in turn feed innovation and bring in more players. It's chicken or egg scenario.

 

The ROF situation was actually quite good back in the early 2010's, because ROF with its modern engine but less popular WW1 setting competed with older, less technologically advanced flightsims like IL-2 1946 set in the far more popular WW2 setting, in part due to the abject failure of IL-2 CloD. I came directly from IL-2 1946, myself. I simply never went back to WW2, because I've been waiting patiently for a return to the Pacific Theatre. Oh and WW1 planes ended up being really fun, for the past 14 years or so.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

41 minutes ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

 

I agree that the community shouldn't be completely splintered, which is why a fixed schedule would be good, but a bare minimum of healthy competition needs to exist in order to keep server content fresh. Servers will simply cease to exist if they don't draw enough people, but if you have too few servers the missions inevitably get stale and you get a situation like RoF today of a truly dead game. In essence, the genre of WW1 multiplayer flightsims itself would be healthier and have a more active playerbase if there was another modern WW1 flightsim on the market, which would in turn feed innovation and bring in more players. It's chicken or egg scenario.

 

The ROF situation was actually quite good back in the early 2010's, because ROF with its modern engine but less popular WW1 setting competed with older, less technologically advanced flightsims like IL-2 1946 set in the far more popular WW2 setting, in part due to the abject failure of IL-2 CloD. I came directly from IL-2 1946, myself. I simply never went back to WW2, because I've been waiting patiently for a return to the Pacific Theatre. Oh and WW1 planes ended up being really fun, for the past 14 years or so.

It was my understanding that the Flugpark administration had said they would allow different missions created by others (obviously would have to meet certain  standards) to run on thier server.  Imo this would have addressed the "stale" concerns.  Personally,  I really like the Flugpark,  and it is my default go to.  I have friends and "frienemies" that frequent there, and in general enjoy flying with the crowd that typically assemble there.  I trust them to present a level playing field for all,  and feel it is and always has been a welcoming server for newer players.  Like most others, I look forward to, and enjoy the large populations on a server, and from my experience, the flugpark delivers that quite consistently.  With additional servers competing for the same limited number of players, during the popular time slot, will only result in smaller player counts for each.  Sure we can hope that everyone plays this server, on this day, and that server on that day,  but I don't think that will work.  People have personal preferences,  and communication of "the plan" is going to be be missed, or ignored by a fair number.  So in the end, despite "the plan", server populations will be a fraction of what they could be if the plan was one server, multiple missions. 

 

And who wants to invest the time and resources required to host a server that is sparcely populated?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

I have played "Events".  Events traditionally were rare. They included "Black September ", "Bloody April ", etc.  They were well organized,  planned months in advance, things were coordinated, the missions were secret, and we had a scheduled start time (typically a Saturday afternoon).  When shot down, you reported in to an event coordinator,  who told you when you could rejoin, and where you should  report.  Events were something special, were not just another version of a server.  

I guess in today's interpretation,  you could say the Flugpark hosts an "Event", everyday.  24 7.    

Bottom line for me.   We don't have the players to support 3 servers and expect large numbers on each.   

Edited January 25, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[BMA_Hellbender]

7 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

We don't have the players to support 3 servers and expect large numbers on each.   

You’re partly right: we don’t have the players to support 3 servers on the same night.

 

Also: in the past years I didn’t fly at all on Tuesdays, nowadays (when I can), I join Ad Astra on Tuesday. Come join, too! ?

 

This takes nothing away from Flugpark, and I also join there on Sunday (when I can).

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

For those who enjoy the Flugpark , it certainly does take away players.  But i understand that's not something you're  worried about.  

 

I see that other than the squadron that is sponsoring the new servers, no other squadrons stats are listed in the stats page.  As I understand it, each squadron must register its pilots on each of these servers in order for that to happen.  Who wants to do that?  Apparently,  nobody.

 

Let's unite on 1 server, with multiple missions,  and not divide ourselves between 3 places.   Let's not make additional administration work for our squadrons.  Let's agree a common and neutral playing field is really a better approach than creating 3 different servers,  that all basically do the same thing.  

 

There is not enough online players to support decent numbers on 3 servers..  That is obvious.  

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[=LD=G0rgonP0rnstar]

You are deliberately ignoring the fact that all 3 of these servers chose different days of the week so we could all mass up together on different times of the day on different days of the week to present a healthier, more competitive playing environment for newcomers and old timers. You act like they are asking people to populate all 3 simultaneously. The point of the thread is to push everyone to go to Flugpark when they have their events and normal busy day a la Fame or Flame on Sundays and to do the same for KotS and Ad Astra. The whole point is, bury the hatchet and play together and you are clearly shouting back "NO." Should all soccer pitches just go away because you prefer the one close to home? 

[=IRFC=SmokinHole]

Let’s pretend that we are in our Economics 101 class and servers are widgets. The world of widgets is struggling. Those little guys really are quite useful and not at all expensive. The problem with the widget market is that there is currently only one widget maker. Their pair of offerings are pretty much the same widgets they were when widgets were introduced to the market. 
 

We new Econ 101 students think, “Well, the market may be stale but ‘Widgets Monopoly, Inc’ is profitable. It’s a win-win. The market is still served and the company still profits.”

 

”Wrong!” says the professor. “Widget Monopoly, Inc will certainly eventually fail. A stagnant market will always end in decline. Even though WMI makes an ingenious widget, the widget it makes is not the widget a portion of the potential market desires. WMI has the best engineers in the world. But they are held back by a limited vision of what the widget can really do for the consumer. What WMI needs vitally is a competitor. Competition breeds quality and innovation. Quality and innovation foment interest in the market. The market grows and everyone wins!”

Edited January 25, 2024 by =IRFC=SmokinHole

[Zooropa_Fly]

The reason I'm mostly ww2 these days is lack of a fast food type server.

You know, some good old fun !

But we're down to the hardcore players these days and there doesn't seem to be any influx of newcomers to help support such a server.

I've tried myself.

 

Because of the times I mostly like to fly, there's usually 0-4 on Flugpark.

With those numbers I find it a bit boring. Seems like the same thing over and over again.

I like a change of scenery and a change of action once in a while.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

I understand people want a different experience.   Bravo.   But why not on one server?  I understood that the flugpark administration was open to hosting others missions.

Edited January 25, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[BMA_Hellbender]

3 minutes ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

I understand people want a different experience.   Bravo.   But why not on one server?

 

• Competition breeds innovation.
   
• A single point of failure is never a good idea.
   
• A different server can work with different rules, different scoring, stats, kill messages etc.

 

I’m a die-hard iPhone fanboy, yet I’m still happy that Google/Samsung is around to keep Apple in check and provide competition with Android. If they weren’t, then nothing would stop Apple from halting R&D and jacking up the prices. Or worse.

 

It’s still okay for me to be brand loyal to Apple, as you are brand loyal to Flugpark in this example, since I know they have sufficient people buying into the competition.

 

The only scenario in which I see the one-server solution work, is in case it is offically sanctioned by 1CGS and regulated by them. It would still mean a single point of failure (on top of the master server single point of failure), but the risk would somewhat be mitigated by shifting the responsibility away from the community. As it stands, the community has a duty to itself to make sure it is robust, as there is no regulator.

[=IRFC=Tunes]

Simply put, there is no way for the visions of each of the new servers to be fulfilled if they are run on any other server. Doesn't matter which. It's like asking why Pink Floyd didn't put a few songs from Dark Side onto Stevie Wonder's Innervisions.

As to the claim that this competition is shrinking the community, let us consider the following. This past Tuesday, there were 25 people on Ad Astra at its peak. There was an additional 17 people on the Flugpark. Achieving nearly 45 players on a Tuesday is not something that has commonly ever happened. What we are trying to grow is the total number of people who fly WWI multiplayer. To that end, anyone who doesn't have Flying Circus and would like to try it should enter the giveaway Ad Astra is conducting on their Discord. One copy of FC given away for every month of 2024. 

https://discord.gg/m5Hydr5w

Edited January 25, 2024 by =IRFC=Artun

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Fair arguments.   My concern is and has always been keeping large numbers online together.   I still have concerns in that regard,  but..  wish you well in your endeavors,  and hope you have great success in coordinating these schedules. 

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

Apologies for ruffling any feathers here.  Was not my intent.

3 hours ago, =IRFC=G0rgonP0rnstar said:

You are deliberately ignoring the fact that all 3 of these servers chose different days of the week so we could all mass up together on different times of the day on different days of the week to present a healthier, more competitive playing environment for newcomers and old timers. You act like they are asking people to populate all 3 simultaneously. The point of the thread is to push everyone to go to Flugpark when they have their events and normal busy day a la Fame or Flame on Sundays and to do the same for KotS and Ad Astra. The whole point is, bury the hatchet and play together and you are clearly shouting back "NO." Should all soccer pitches just go away because you prefer the one close to home? 

Btw Gordon, was not asking people to populate all 3 simultaneously.   Was suggesting that they would.  Big distinction, big difference.   

Edited January 25, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[=LD=G0rgonP0rnstar]

What are you on about? I never said you were asking people to populate all 3 servers simultaneously. I said "You act like they are asking people to populate all 3 simultaneously." 'They' as in all the other people you were replying to. What you are suggesting is that people would see 1 of 3 servers with active players yet choose one of the dead and empty ones? Then those people are the ones you should be worried about dividing the community, not the other servers.

Btw Michelle, it's G0rgon, with a 'G'. Big distinction, big difference.

[No.23_TaxDollarsAtWork]

9 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

I understand people want a different experience.   Bravo.   But why not on one server?  I understood that the flugpark administration was open to hosting others missions.

You can't make art by committee

 

The truth about hosting these other missions is that Flugpark turned most of them down, and only started to make changes whe other servers appeared.

 

Or simply hosted it once and dropped it quickly, not allowing for more tuning of a fresh different and variegated mission.

 

 

Don't like the other servers well let the invisible hand sort them out.

 

It's time to stop acting like a certain server has a right to own all of the WW1 community.

 

Such an insane level of hubris I wonder why no one points it out.

 

It really deprives us both as players and seever owners the human agency to act out our own free will and make decisions for ourselves.

 

If anything, we need more WW1 servers, a WW1 dogfighting server (like berloga) or even a polish soviet war one that's constantly up would help draw more people in.

 

I can't stress how important a dogfight one is for new people to get reps in handling torque heavy skittish planes in an furball

 

It would also fill that air combat fast food itch to get quick duels in for some

Edited January 26, 2024 by No.23_TaxDollarsAtWork

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

2 hours ago, =IRFC=G0rgonP0rnstar said:

What are you on about? I never said you were asking people to populate all 3 servers simultaneously. I said "You act like they are asking people to populate all 3 simultaneously." 'They' as in all the other people you were replying to. What you are suggesting is that people would see 1 of 3 servers with active players yet choose one of the dead and empty ones? Then those people are the ones you should be worried about dividing the community, not the other servers.

Btw Michelle, it's G0rgon, with a 'G'. Big distinction, big difference.

Oh boy..   sorry GOrgon for mispelling your name.  Honest mistake.   The rest of it?   It would appear you really didn't understand my point at all.  WHAT I AM SUGGESTING,  is that some people will be unaware of "the plan", others will choose whatever they like, and "ignore the plan".  Like cat hearding, getting everyone to go along, will be a challenge,  for a variety of reasons.   That's it bud.  Sorry if this upsets you.  Not my intent. 

 

Anyway,  moving on.  As I said above, wish you well in your endeavors, and hope you have success coordinating these schedules. 

Edited January 26, 2024 by RNAS10_Mitchell

[US103_Baer]

For those who can fly during the European evening/US afternoon,  there's a number of viable weekly 'events'. Flugpark Sunday,  Kots Saturday and AdAstra Tuesday. 

 

However,  those ppl in North American TZ, who work regular hours or have family commits in the weekend have just ONE evening option,  which is AdAstra Tuesday NA night, and that event is struggling. 

 

Why we can't consistently populate a single NA evening on one server is a mystery to me.

 

Btw, multiple servers that express the visions of the various map makers is awesome. They're all great and make for nicely varied experiences. Kudos to them. 

 

I understand you can fly whichever experience you want,  but the point of the post is, can't we come together on these few specific times a week in order to have a viable number of pilots?

I mean for the NA evenings its just once a week. Not really going to upset anyone's overall ability to enjoy their favourite server at other times is it. 

 

 

[ST_Catchov]

10 hours ago, No.23_TaxDollarsAtWork said:

I can't stress how important a dogfight one is for new people to get reps in handling torque heavy skittish planes in an furball

 

It would also fill that air combat fast food itch to get quick duels in for some

 

We used to have a 24/7 fast food server with 'imaginative' maps. It was great to jump on for that quick fix at a convenient time and it was a lot of fun. Not everyone can attend the "scheduled events" for many reasons. But in the end, the player numbers weren't enough to warrant keeping it up. Or something like that. Running a server can be a thankless task.

[BMA_Hellbender]

On 1/26/2024 at 12:27 PM, ST_Catchov said:

We used to have a 24/7 fast food server with 'imaginative' maps. It was great to jump on for that quick fix at a convenient time and it was a lot of fun. Not everyone can attend the "scheduled events" for many reasons. But in the end, the player numbers weren't enough to warrant keeping it up. Or something like that. Running a server can be a thankless task.

 

  

On 1/26/2024 at 3:28 AM, US103_Baer said:

Why we can't consistently populate a single NA evening on one server is a mystery to me.

 

I think Flugpark does a great job with their AI spawns when their map empties up. It's a kind of Fast Food.

 

It's still nowhere near as fun as the old early access FC1 Flugpark where we were all duking it out over the azure waters of Kuban. In my opinion that's not a J5/Flugpark problem, it's a 1CGS problem. The sim was new back then, it no longer is today.

 

FC needs a comprehensive set of FM reviews to keep the game itself from going stale. Back in early access FC1 there was so much hope that the game would truly be evolving along, and in some respects it has, such as with the DM change that happened when the community came together and presented the devs with an overwhelming body of evidence to have it fixed. Since @Holtzauge's book was kind of cast in the wind, my own willingness to make time to fly FC has dwindled in the face of an extremely busy schedule. I guess 40 really is the new 20. I'm an adult now with no clear incentive to make time for video games... ?

 

Edited January 28, 2024 by =IRFC=Hellbender

[ST_Catchov]

9 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

FC needs a comprehensive set of FM reviews to keep the game itself from going stale. Back in early access FC1 there was so much hope that the game would truly be evolving along, and in some respects it has, such as with the DM change that happened when the community came together and presented the devs with an overwhelming body of evidence to have it fixed. Since @Holtzauge's book was kind of cast in the wind, my own willingness to make time to fly FC has dwindled in the face of an extremely busy schedule. I guess 40 really is the new 20. I'm an adult now with no clear incentive to make time for video games... ?

 

Agree with all that. The thrill has gone and interest wanes. The lacklustre response to any FM reviews over the years doesn't help.

[Zooropa_Fly]

19 hours ago, =IRFC=Hellbender said:

I think Flugpark does a great job with their AI spawns when their map empties up. It's a kind of Fast Food.

 

 

This I see as part of the problem, way back.. too late now.

 

Trying to be one server to all players, a monopoly if you like.

It's not a healthy thing having only one server populated.

No icons either, which doesn't help attracting noobs.

 

IMO The Flug doesn't do a very good impression of a fast food server.

 

 

[BMA_Hellbender]

6 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

This I see as part of the problem, way back.. too late now.

 

Trying to be one server to all players, a monopoly if you like.

It's not a healthy thing having only one server populated.

No icons either, which doesn't help attracting noobs.

 

IMO The Flug doesn't do a very good impression of a fast food server.

Agreed, though I’m not critical of Flugpark over many things. Icons are certainly not one of my points of criticism. I deeply dislike them, even in a Fast Food setting. Outside views I could live with on a more arcade oriented server.

 

The few things I’d change to Flugpark itself are really personal preference regarding map design and kill messages (I think ON is much better than OFF), but even those things are not guaranteed to be the case on IRFC’s Ad Astra, as I’m neither map designer nor in charge of deciding anything regarding kill messages or other. I did come up with the name Ad Astra, but that’s only because I have a huge crush on Brad Pitt.

 

In any case: choice is good.

[Zooropa_Fly]

I'm not criticising the Flug, it's a great server and I more than appreciate the work gone into it.

Just doesn't give me what I want, when I want it.

 

And I certainly wouldn't ever expect they'd go icons on ! Of course they won't and rightly so.

But since I get to moan about them again... the state of the icons in this game isn't good.

Too much info if you don't want it, and way too big.. if you don't want that either.

That's me in 4k - lesser resolutions and I'm not sure how you'd see anything through those icons !

 

But a quick action server with them available would be good.

And some permanent bots to play with.. not ones that evaporate into thin air when player #2 spawns in. (I know flug allows for a few more players).

The reality is though it's been tried, and there's no support for one.

 

S!

[76SQN-FatherTed]

On 1/29/2024 at 6:15 PM, Zooropa_Fly said:

I'm not criticising the Flug, it's a great server and I more than appreciate the work gone into it.

Just doesn't give me what I want, when I want it.

 

And I certainly wouldn't ever expect they'd go icons on ! Of course they won't and rightly so.

But since I get to moan about them again... the state of the icons in this game isn't good.

Too much info if you don't want it, and way too big.. if you don't want that either.

That's me in 4k - lesser resolutions and I'm not sure how you'd see anything through those icons !

 

But a quick action server with them available would be good.

And some permanent bots to play with.. not ones that evaporate into thin air when player #2 spawns in. (I know flug allows for a few more players).

The reality is though it's been tried, and there's no support for one.

 

S!

You can recreate the effect of jumping into an empty server with bots by creating your own server and using one of the Park missions

[Zooropa_Fly]

Thanks Ted !

I've 15+ maps of my own, so am sorted for a quick fix if I need one

What I miss is a server like that with up to maybe a dozen players.

I prefer flying with other people, even the idiots. Made it more interesting. 

 

S! 

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

Idiots can be fun.

[76SQN-FatherTed]

20 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Thanks Ted !

I've 15+ maps of my own, so am sorted for a quick fix if I need one

What I miss is a server like that with up to maybe a dozen players.

I prefer flying with other people, even the idiots. Made it more interesting. 

 

S! 

Sorry, I should have remembered you'd done your own thing.  I really meant that for chumps like me, who can't/won't do that, clicking "create server" from the multiplayer screen and uploading a pre-made map with bots on allows you to fly against said bots in a better environment than a QB.

[Zooropa_Fly]

All my maps are downloadable here Ted if you want some quick fix options.

 

 

S! 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Zooropa_Fly