Extremely boring career missions

[RoundTraven]

After 20 hours of playing, I've liked this game a lot. The career missions tend to be somewhat boring but it was fine by me until now. I've been getting these missions where you have to escort some bombers to their target and then escort them back. The issue? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENS IN ANY OF THEM. No enemy fighters ever show up, the worst you see is like 4 AA guns at the target there's no point in even attacking. And what makes this even worse is that these missions are the longest ones, taking like 30 minutes on 8x speed. I kid you not I died one time because I fell asleep during one of the missions and the autopilot couldn't land the plane. 

[jeanba]

Yes, I have also met this problem, especially over Normandy

see here : 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by jeanba

[rvgls49]

I almost not playing pilot career missions on the Normandy and Rheinland/Bodenplatte maps because of so many repetitive missions, for example 4-6 times in a row free hunt missions or transport plane escort missions on other maps (Stalingrad) as wel. Some more variation in mission types would be very welcome on these maps. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by rvgls49
mistakes

[jeanba]

24 minutes ago, rvgls49 said:

I almost not playing pilot career missions on the Normandy and Rheinland/Bodenplatte maps because of so many repetitive missions, for example 4-6 times in a row free hunt missions or transport plane escort missions on other maps (Stalingrad) as wel. Some more variation in mission types would be very welcome on these maps. 

I have several career in porgress at the same time, and I alternate to avoid repetitivity

[Semor76]

9 hours ago, RoundTraven said:

After 20 hours of playing, I've liked this game a lot. The career missions tend to be somewhat boring but it was fine by me until now. I've been getting these missions where you have to escort some bombers to their target and then escort them back. The issue? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENS IN ANY OF THEM. No enemy fighters ever show up, the worst you see is like 4 AA guns at the target there's no point in even attacking. And what makes this even worse is that these missions are the longest ones, taking like 30 minutes on 8x speed. I kid you not I died one time because I fell asleep during one of the missions and the autopilot couldn't land the plane. 

Forget about the ingame career mode. It is not the strongest side of the entire Great Battle series....

 

Try PWCG instead: http://www.pwcampaignmanager.com/pwcg/pwcgbos/web/PWCGBoS.php

 

 

[jeanba]

Yes, eastern careers have the opposite problem

But I realized that for escort missions, the bombers are very rarely intercepted 

Air combats come from two ennemy missions that accidently meeting each others

2 hours ago, Semor76 said:

Forget about the ingame career mode. It is not the strongest side of the entire Great Battle series....

 

Try PWCG instead: http://www.pwcampaignmanager.com/pwcg/pwcgbos/web/PWCGBoS.php

 

 

I have been a long time user of PWCG

Fighter campaigns are usually better than fighter careers but for ground attack, career is better 

 

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

I guess the real question is whether the real Normandy combat flights were as boring.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

1 hour ago, MAJORgoonMADLOU said:

I guess the real question is whether the real Normandy combat flights were as boring.

My guess is they were. The Luftwaffe was much weaker and Allied numbers much great by mid-1944...

[LukeFF]

15 hours ago, rvgls49 said:

I almost not playing pilot career missions on the Normandy and Rheinland/Bodenplatte maps because of so many repetitive missions, for example 4-6 times in a row free hunt missions or transport plane escort missions on other maps (Stalingrad) as wel. Some more variation in mission types would be very welcome on these maps. 

 

The mission variety is based on whatever the squadron was flying at the time, so some repetitiveness is to be expected. It's part of the military life. ?

 

14 hours ago, Aruberikku said:

Funny, I have the feeling it's the opposite. Since the major patch (5.201) I'm getting absolutely swamped by enemy fighters (BoS career)?

Just flew an attackers intercept. I only saw 3 IL-2s and I think there were 10+ I-16s escorting them.

 

I get downed in almost every mission now. I either got 3 fighters on my tail or the AAA just snipes me like it rarely did before.

Either the new difficulty settings changed things, although I usually have everything at medium and didn't have issues before. Or maybe a mod that I'm using is screwing things up since the patch?

 

There is a new Random option for every difficulty setting.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, MAJORgoonMADLOU said:

I guess the real question is whether the real Normandy combat flights were as boring.

 

The Allied squadron reports show that combat with the Luftwaffe was infrequent at best - about once every ten missions for the typical Allied squadron operating over the front every day.

[PB0_Roll]

A "fly air superiority or escort missions only when opposition is expected" option would be very welcome, just as a "fly ground attack missions only when air superiority is established" one.

 

I don't mind skipping a few weeks between flights.

[jeanba]

19 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The Allied squadron reports show that combat with the Luftwaffe was infrequent at best - about once every ten missions for the typical Allied squadron operating over the front every day.

That's why il is boring 

Patrick Wilson has plenty of ideas and options to render those missions interesting, maybe  as suggested by roll  you could take some inspiration there ?

19 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

 

There is a new Random option for every difficulty setting.

I made some tests and honnestly, I did not see any meaningfull influence 

For instance, with everything at "low"  my 4 IAR80 are facing 4 P40 and 4 Yak1, increasing difficulty only change the time you are shot down

Edited December 26, 2023 by jeanba

[jeanba]

Add : Though I do not play fighter careers anymore because either you meet nobody, or you are outnumbered with a 3 to 1 ratio  ground attack missions are usually ok

Edited December 26, 2023 by jeanba

[LukeFF]

21 hours ago, jeanba said:

I made some tests and honnestly, I did not see any meaningfull influence 

For instance, with everything at "low"  my 4 IAR80 are facing 4 P40 and 4 Yak1, increasing difficulty only change the time you are shot down

 

If you have mission files showing this, then please upload them here. @=FB=VikS does look at them.

[jeanba]

The missions are in the zip file : ll means everything at "low" (difficulty, aidensity, front density), hh : everything at high

In the lll missions, 4 Iar fight 3 Yak then 5 P40E, usually resulting in the loss of most Iar

In addition, 1 Pe2, 7 i16, 1 Li2 + 2 Iar are in the mission, but they are not involved in the dogfight with the player formation (at least until all Iar are shot down).

 

The hhh mission involves :

4 Iars vs 5 Yak + 5 P40E in the main dogfight => same results, except faster

As before, the other planes do not have time to appear

freehunt.zip

[YoYo]

Btw. Career mode options:

 

Quote

Air and AAA Strength: Enemy Inferiority, Parity, Enemy Superiority, Random

Air AI Groups Density: Low Density, Normal High Density, Random

Front Line Forces: Scattered, Medium, Numerous, Random

 

Edited January 9, 2024 by YoYo

[Knarley-Bob]

On 12/25/2023 at 4:11 PM, MAJORgoonMADLOU said:

I guess the real question is whether the real Normandy combat flights were as boring.

The boring missions were the good ones. You made it back home alive, in real life.

On a game, not so much.

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

9 minutes ago, Knarley-Bob said:

The boring missions were the good ones. You made it back home alive, in real life.

On a game, not so much.

True. But, we can always play the German (non-Normandy)careers. They are just the opposite IMHO. You are in the air a couple minutes and enemy fighters are eveywhere. In fact, when I flew a few career missions in the FW-190D, we were constantly trounced by P51s or P47s before we even got off the ground. There was so much quick action in those careers my ancient 68 year old self had to take a break from them for a while and fly a more tame but definitely non-boring scripted Normandy campaign (Overlord). But they were great fun and I definitely plan on going back to them and finishing them up.

[Mtnbiker1998]

I think the problem lies less with the squadron mission variety (which is probably quite accurate) but the limits of the template based missions we get. Its gets old pretty quick when every Attack enemy river crossing mission or what have you is exactly the same copy pasted mission in a different spot. Some more variety there would help.

 

In a perfect world we'd have a proper battlefield with changing troop positions making for truly dynamic missions (something along the lines of BMS, perhaps "weighted" to still provide the historically correct outcomes for a given battle) so no two missions would ever be quite alike, but I doubt we'll see that any time soon. Even in the "New Project"

[LukeFF]

Some mission template updates are coming which will hopefully reduce some of the issues with repetitiveness. 

[Aleksander55]

On 1/17/2024 at 4:46 PM, LukeFF said:

Some mission template updates are coming which will hopefully reduce some of the issues with repetitiveness. 

 

Luke, I'm preparing a bug report for this weekend, here's a summary of them if the team wants to take a look before I make the post in the appropriate forum with the track files; as well as some suggestions:

 

Bugs:

 

Quote

 

This is for the pilot career always with the I-16, this from Stalingrad on:

 

In escort missions, for bombers or attackers, if I Iet an AI lead, they will always lag behind the formation, at slow speed. The rest of the fighters will form up normaly. If it's the IL-2s the lead may catch the formation back, if it's the bombers it will usually 'lose contact' and start circling at low speed while the rest of the formation goes on.

 

Still with this AI lead, If dogfights happen before the IL-2s get to the target zone, again the lead might 'lose contact' and start circling aimlessly, this time probably with the rest of the squadron, leaving the IL-2s unprotected.

 

In cover missions: The AI lead will again lag behind, at low speed and altitude, when enemy fighters appear. It seems they are always waiting for the rest of the formation to overtake them before they decide to accelerate. They get easily killed even if I put my best pilots as lead.

 

In a general sense I can observe this behavior of AI leads, mostly friendly but sometimes even foe, with this 'power down' behavior in many different situations. Circling aimlessly at 200kmh even over enemy territory with flack nearby as well. I'd really like if this ridiculous behavior got stamped out.

 

If starting in the air, escorting IL-2s: They'll make a single attack, then drop all the rest of the ordinance and go back.

 

If starting in the air. escorting bombers: If I set the waypoint higher than 2000 meters (I like to put it to 3000 meters if there's enough friendly airspace for them to climb) they wont climb to this height. It only works starting with a take-off.

 

F4 (cover me) doesn't work. It just turns them into slow unreactive zombies.

 

Letting the Autopilot climb my I-16 past 3000 meters it doesn't activate the 2nd supercharger stage. Please verify if AI I-16s have the same problem.

 

In a general sense the reactions of my wingmen when I'm in command got a little better, they don't turn into slow zombies as often.  However it can still happen when cruising to and from bombing missions. I'm never sure if they'll react or not. Even only 2 enemy fighters can shoot down 4, 5, 6 of my squadron of zombies. There's no sense of what command to give to 'activate' them, or not to give a command at all. I'd like the team to be clear with what to do to activate my wingmen. I mean I see the enemy fighters coming. I point the formation towards them: We cross front to front. I repeat this mission many times:

 

No command/Attack enemy fighters/Patrol for enemy fighters/Cover me: slow zombies - get easily shot down. I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

 

I'd really like if 'cover me' was a hard wired command to be agressive and go only after enemy fighters.

 

Enemy fighters have 100% target fixation. Always. Even with some pretty hefty HE holes in their wings plus some leaks they don't break off from my wingmen. Even with ENGINES ON FIRE they don't break off. 2 times they even actually managed to shoot my wingmen down - yes, with their engines on fire. The 'take care of your wingmen' tip is useless both because all of them turn into zombies( so taking care of only one of them is useless, the rest of them is also flying at 200kmh and easily shot down), and also for this 100% target fixation.

 

For the I-16 I'd really like if firing a red flare would activate an 'agressive behavior' for a few minutes. Give me back the rabid chihuahuas from AQM that would go after dogfights kilometers away.

 

Older bugs seem to have been solved. My wingmen don't go away cruising slowly right in the middle of enemies when 'mission complete' appears. They got better in intercept attackers/bombers as well.

 

Cover missions seem to be ending early many times. When what we have to cover is close to the airbase many times we circle for a very short time and go back still with a lot of fuel, with enemies bombers/attackers being spawned far away right when 'mission complete' appears.

 

 

 

 

SUGGESTIONS: More variety of missions in pilot career. Give fighters the missions available in AQM: Train hunt, airfield attack, intercept transports, protect/attack shipping where/when appropriate, etc. Escort Il-2s going in these more varied missions as well (airfields, trains, vehicles, troops, bridges, etc). Have missions to attack 'real' rail/road bridges instead of always only the pontoon ones.

 

In Moscow, if it ever happened, have a small chance of getting escort missions.

 

In Stalingrad have a chance that the player's squadron is escorted in bombing missions. If we are back to escorting IL-2s and PE-2s then probably fighter to fighter escort was also back to happening sometimes.

 

Related, very important: When escort missions become available for the I-16s again in Stalingrad, but this is applicable for every career, based on every mission template available for Kuban: I'd like to be able to escort Fighters in bombing missions instead of always IL-2s. If the player's fighters sometimes get escorted in bombing missions then it's only logical that we would get missions to escort fighters in their ground attack missions as well. Since the I-16 is slow It would probably be only for other I-16s and maybe Hurricanes. Other types of fighters would of course be able to escort a wider range of faster fighters.

 

In Free-Hunt: Have higher chance of crossing paths with enemy strike aircraft instead of always interceptors. Have a possibility of being given general location of bombers on the map as well. Have the possibility of stumbling on already ongoing dogfights. Have the possibility of finding friendly strike packages and deciding to escort them as well. For I-16s: Let me take the full squadron, call it fighter sweep/agressive patrol, 4 aircraft is always a suicide mission.

 

For freehunt and many other missions: Don't have the entire LW always going exclusively for my squadron. Have it go after other juicier and easier targets. Let us be the rescuers sometimes. Have the possibility of 'radio' (map) general position (colored map square or coordinates by radio) of hot spots with friendlies needing help.

 

Me-110s in pure fighter roles where/when applicable. For example: Those waves of fighters sent with awacs guidance towards the player's squadron ignoring everything else in the air in many diferent missions/situations: Have one of them be of 110s. I could swear I read somewhere that they went back to using them this way in the east. At least intercepting/escorting bombers.

 

Intercept bombers/attackers: No more invulnerable bombers/attackers when the player's squadron is far away. This has no place in a sim of this caliber. Let the player squadron find an enemy formation that already has less bombers/attackers/escorts. If this is happening because of limitations in the scripting/triggers/etc: Have the friendlies that get there before us always go for the escorts. At least we have a chance of getting to the enemy formation with less escorts.

 

For the I-16 I'd really like if firing a red flare would activate an 'agressive behavior' for a few minutes. Give me back the rabid chihuahuas from AQM that would go after dogfights kilometers away.

 

'Big' missions: If it ever happened. For example, airfield attack: the player's squadron escorting IL-2s, coordinated with another squadron, either in pure fighter role or also as fighter bombers. Processor heavy mission but no more than cover missions can get sometimes.

[RedeyeStorm]

In one of my posts @LukeFF has indicated that what you cal awacs guided flights would be changed.