Historical error in the Career Mod for 9/JG77. Bf109 instead of FW190A8

[MarcoPegase44]

Hello @LukeFF ,

  I have just detected a historical error in BON's "CareerMod" by rereading the book "The Luftwaffe face au débarquement" by Frappé.

The 9/JG77 which operates on the same airfield as the I/JG1 is equipped with Bf 109, in fact this is false, in the Battle of Normandy it was equipped with FW190A8 .

 

When it was recalled from Romania to reinforce the Normandy front, it passed through Germany where its pilots had 4 weeks of training to convert , Bf109 to Fw190.

 

Below screenshot after fixing the game

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by MarcoPegase44

[LukeFF]

Can you please show the source(s) showing this was the case? It's easy enough to fix, but I just want to be sure before submitting updated files to the developers. 

 

EDIT: yes, it looks like you're right - I found this additional information: https://www.luftwaffe.be/missing-in-action-jg-77/

 

06/07/44

Uffz. Hans-Karl Maximow

9./JG 77

Fw 190 A-8 (731094) white 232

Combat with fighter USNogent le Rotrou, near Argentan

[LukeFF]

Alright, I've sent over updated files to fix this. Nice find, and thank you!

[MarcoPegase44]

30 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Can you please show the source(s) showing this was the case? It's easy enough to fix, but I just want to be sure before submitting updated files to the developers. 

 

EDIT: yes, it looks like you're right - I found this additional information: https://www.luftwaffe.be/missing-in-action-jg-77/

 

06/07/44

Uffz. Hans-Karl Maximow

9./JG 77

Fw 190 A-8 (731094) white 232

Combat with fighter USNogent le Rotrou, near Argentan

https://editions-heimdal.fr/fr/aviation/76-la-luftwaffe-face-au-debarquement-9782840484646.html
 

 

this book is certainly the best on jagdwaffe during the Battle of Normandy by an author who is a reference

16 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Alright, I've sent over updated files to fix this. Nice find, and thank you!

This squadron had the particularity of having 3-digit aircraft identification numbers. certainly teams with Fw190s from a school faced with the urgency of the situation at the end of June 44

[LukeFF]

25 minutes ago, MarcoPegase44 said:

This squadron had the particularity of having 3-digit aircraft identification numbers. certainly teams with Fw190s from a school faced with the urgency of the situation at the end of June 44

 

Yes, that's interesting - that entry above refers to it being "White 232". 

 

26 minutes ago, MarcoPegase44 said:

this book is certainly the best on jagdwaffe during the Battle of Normandy by an author who is a reference

 

Yes, it looks like a great resource. I just wish it was translated into English.  

[MarcoPegase44]

4 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, that's interesting - that entry above refers to it being "White 232". 

 

 

Yes, it looks like a great resource. I just wish it was translated into English.  

this is the opportunity to learn the language of Monsieur Molière?

[357th_KW]

After doing some digging, it would appear that 9./JG77's opponents that day were likely P-47s of the USAAF's 78th Fighter Group (all other American claims for the day were far to the East near Rouen, Evreux or Paris).  I happened to find all the combat reports of the claims the 78th made that day, all from the same combat:

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/78-gray-6june44.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/78-massa-6june44.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/78-caulfield-6june44.jpg

[MarcoPegase44]

5 hours ago, 357th_KW said:

After doing some digging, it would appear that 9./JG77's opponents that day were likely P-47s of the USAAF's 78th Fighter Group (all other American claims for the day were far to the East near Rouen, Evreux or Paris).  I happened to find all the combat reports of the claims the 78th made that day, all from the same combat:

 

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/78-gray-6june44.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/78-massa-6june44.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/er/78-caulfield-6june44.jpg

It's not the same fight,
The Jg77 only arrived in Normandy at the beginning of July.

This for the  white 232 fight took place on July 6

Edited December 8, 2023 by MarcoPegase44

[MarcoPegase44]

16 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Can you please show the source(s) showing this was the case? It's easy enough to fix, but I just want to be sure before submitting updated files to the developers. 

 

EDIT: yes, it looks like you're right - I found this additional information: https://www.luftwaffe.be/missing-in-action-jg-77/

 

06/07/44

Uffz. Hans-Karl Maximow

9./JG 77

Fw 190 A-8 (731094) white 232

Combat with fighter USNogent le Rotrou, near Argentan

 

 

[percydanvers]

Impressive research! I had been under the impression that Jg 77 was a 109 wing throughout the war.

 

I really wish  Osprey still did Aviation Elite Units. Jg 77 really needs an entry in that series.

[LukeFF]

@MarcoPegase44, thanks!

 

1 hour ago, percydanvers said:

Impressive research! I had been under the impression that Jg 77 was a 109 wing throughout the war.

 

It technically was - it was just the 9th staffel that was detached and sent west to reinforce I./JG 1. And then of course the Luftwaffe said, nah, now your 4./JG 1. ?

[percydanvers]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

@MarcoPegase44, thanks!

 

 

It technically was - it was just the 9th staffel that was detached and sent west to reinforce I./JG 1. And then of course the Luftwaffe said, nah, now your 4./JG 1. ?

Ahh yeah like III./Jg 54 becoming IV./Jg 26 or whatever. Always makes it fun to try and track units when their names are changing all the time ?

[357th_KW]

On 12/7/2023 at 8:21 PM, MarcoPegase44 said:

It's not the same fight,
The Jg77 only arrived in Normandy at the beginning of July.

This for the  white 232 fight took place on July 6

 

Looks like I transposed the dates on that.  After some further digging (this time looking at the correct date ?), it looks like all 8th AF activity was around Paris.  The P-38s of the 9th AF's 474th FG did engage with some FW-190s on July 6th (claiming 3 destroyed and 4 probables, while losing at least one of their own aircraft).  There aren't any other 9th AF claims on that date, and the only RAF claims are from Spitfires escorting Mitchells near Chartres.  Digging through Tony Wood's claims list I can see there are also two victory claims from 9./JG77 for P-38s in the Alencon area that day as well, so that appears to be the correct answer.  Sadly I can't find any original combat reports from this action, but the Osprey "P-38 Lightning Aces of the ETO/MTO" book by John Stanaway has a quick mention of this battle:

 

Interestingly, we have Lt Milliken's skin for the P-38J in game.

Edited December 9, 2023 by 357th_KW

[Hungmanmoojoo]

wow.. cool i hadn't read that before. the french text about Wolfgang.. 

Wolfgang Ernst was my mothers uncle. i spoke to him once before he passed but had no idea that he was a pilot. i learned that later. i love flying ww2 simulators but i suck bigtime.. 

i've heard that after his hospital visit he became testpilot for the ME-262.. it was during discussions about that aircraft with my dad that he mentioned that onkel wolfgang Flew it as a testpilot.

so cool.