VR

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

13 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

Backwards is not forward...the way to fix the issues with GB is to move forwards and salvage what is good and even passable and marry it to new technologies and methodologies that will create the ultimate CFS to date for VR and flatscreen.

Yes , new technologies are needed to not be a looser on the start. Nvidia optic flow implementation with OpenXR for VR.  This is  "only" use of new graphics hardware, but things like dynamic LOD and Sparse Volume Textures to name few are not easy from scratch.This on top of enhanced DM, FM, Netcode , gameplay and maybe finally word objects realtime physics simulation not just  predefinted animation. Good that they don't have to start from scratch in all departments. I would also like to see the airframe flexing and vibration but that all is humongous task and unrealistic expectations from small studio. I hope we get some new things eventually.

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Lusekofte]

19 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

VR and flatscreen

---- , and I got a curved screen 

Edited November 9, 2023 by LukeFF
profanity

[RedeyeStorm]

6 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

---- , and I got a curved screen 

Couldn’t choose @Lusekofte ?

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

10 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Yes , new technologies are needed to not be a looser on the start. Nvidia optic flow implementation with OpenXR for VR.  This is  "only" use of new graphics hardware, but things like dynamic LOD and Sparse Volume Textures to name few are not easy from scratch.This on top of enhanced DM, FM, Netcode , gameplay and maybe finally word objects realtime physics simulation not just  predefinted animation. Good that they don't have to start from scratch in all departments. I would also like to see the airframe flexing and vibration but that all is humongous task and unrealistic expectations from small studio. I hope we get some new things eventually.

 

 

I' m not sure they need all of this but some basic things like wake turbulence should be modeled. It is always a balance between too ambitious and too conservative. I think GB was on the too conservative side and that's where most of its faults come from.

 

FWIW, I'm really excited for Combat Pilot. I think the new title here will be Korea and that is also going to be really neat to be able to fly early jets and super-props.

Edited November 9, 2023 by drewm3i-VR

[Lusekofte]

I do not know how ambitious they can be. But ideally they should make a foundation for next 10 years. 
This means they have to meet future demands

[LF_Mark_Krieger]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:23 PM, IckyATLAS said:

So a question here, what is the best VR set at the moment. I have the feeling it is the Pixmax Crystal: YES? NO?

Luke will move this to another forum I am afraid......

I finally did the long waited jump from 2D to 3D last week, and a jump of PC performance needed to run it. Previously I had a 7700K and a 1060 3Gb so I could not even play at max graph setting even with my 1080 60 Hz screen. I wasn't really convinced of the quality of VR sets untill recently and I waited untill the release of Quest 3. Now I finally have an AMD 7800X3D CPU and a 7900 XTX GPU to run them. Unfortunatelly I don't have previous experience with other VR devices, so I can't compare with any other set and I am still adapting to it and investigating the settings and other config that I should use, but I am quite satisfied with them, and seeing the high end PC that you have I would suggest you to jump to VR right now. 

I amb playing in IL-2 with all graph setting at ultra and everything at max, except MSAA x2 instead of x8 and the monitor resolution, that's not needed when you fly in VR. Not even using Radeon Superresolution And I have 72 estable FPS in each eye. I'm sure I can still improve a lot the quality-performance equilibrium (any help is welcome) and, compared with my new 3440x1440 curved screen I have the feeling that there are too much "saw teeth" effect with distant edges, especially when I am on the ground. But my worst enemy right now is motion sickness. I think I am very sensible to it and if I force too long I even puke. Anyway the feeling of being there is absolutelly fantastic, situational awareness improves a lot, holding formation is more much instinctive and easy, etc. At the moment I am not able to dogfight and can only do some relaxed flying or ground attacks at most (even taxiing produces a noticeable motion sickness), but I'm sure I will adapt and it is absolutelly worth it.

Edited December 5, 2023 by LF_Mark_Krieger

[unlikely_spider]

6 hours ago, LF_Mark_Krieger said:

But my worst enemy right now is motion sickness. I think I am very sensible to it and if I force too much I even puke. Anyway the feeling of being there is absolutelly fantastic, SA improves a lot, holding formation is more much instinctive and easy, etc. At the moment I am not able to dogfight and can only do some relaxed flying or grounds attacks at most (even taxiing produces a noticeable motion sickness), but I'm sure I will adapt and it is absolutelly worth it.

Yes, start slowly! I was in the same boat as you, and couldn't even roll a few degrees without feeling woozy. So do it for just a few minutes at a time, and quit as soon as the feeling starts. Then the next day do a little more. Ginger tablets also helped me in the beginning. They're called "Rescue" or something like that. I took a couple before I started each time, and after a while I didn't need them anymore. Now I can do hours of rolling scissors dogfights without issue.

[LF_Mark_Krieger]

15 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

Yes, start slowly! I was in the same boat as you, and couldn't even roll a few degrees without feeling woozy. So do it for just a few minutes at a time, and quit as soon as the feeling starts. Then the next day do a little more. Ginger tablets also helped me in the beginning. They're called "Rescue" or something like that. I took a couple before I started each time, and after a while I didn't need them anymore. Now I can do hours of rolling scissors dogfights without issue.

Yes, I know that I have to take it easy and have some patience. Just that this first sessions I feel dizzy from the beginning in the taxi and sometimes I force too much. I think I'll have to begin with quick missions without enemies in the air in airstart. 

[Skycat1969]

If you don't adapt after a few days and you still feel sick when you play, it could be caused by technical factors like improper scaling or a low refresh rate in the headset. I've played VR games for years and I've had some that made me feel almost violently sick within about 15 minutes--mostly my attempts to play old non-VR games converted with VORPX, and currently the Half Life 2 VR mod. Anyhow, look into setup tips for your headset and playing VR in flight simulators. The YouTube tutorials by VR Flightsim Guy were especially helpful when I switched from Oculus Rift S (practically Plug and Play) to Reverb G2 which needed quite a bit of tweaking of settings.

[Koziolek]

8 hours ago, LF_Mark_Krieger said:

. I think I'll have to begin with quick missions without enemies in the air in airstart. 

Good idea, the farther you are from the ground the less of a motion you feel. I had the same problem as you at the beginning but now I feel fine anytime anywhere. Even car racing is OK for me now

[AKA_Ramstein]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:55 AM, Skycat1969 said:

If you don't adapt after a few days and you still feel sick when you play, it could be caused by technical factors like improper scaling or a low refresh rate in the headset. I've played VR games for years and I've had some that made me feel almost violently sick within about 15 minutes--mostly my attempts to play old non-VR games converted with VORPX, and currently the Half Life 2 VR mod. Anyhow, look into setup tips for your headset and playing VR in flight simulators. The YouTube tutorials by VR Flightsim Guy were especially helpful when I switched from Oculus Rift S (practically Plug and Play) to Reverb G2 which needed quite a bit of tweaking of settings.

I did HL2 Alyx! Fun! I really liked Stalker, but they broke my heart when Stalker2 was announced no VR!!

On 11/4/2023 at 3:16 AM, cugel1 said:

I've been a very long Il2 pilot, and now...i'm using less and less this sim when I see the evolution of DCS in terms of performance. have a heafty pc and il2 is the worst performing sim in VR that I have on my system. seems like they the dev teams are more focused on delivrering more content versus an up to date sim with an optimized engine.

Release after release I keep hoping that it will come.....?.

 

I don't see much specs for your system... What is the VR setup?? I fly VR in IL-2 and DCS.

On 11/14/2023 at 5:55 AM, Skycat1969 said:

If you don't adapt after a few days and you still feel sick when you play, it could be caused by technical factors like improper scaling or a low refresh rate in the headset. I've played VR games for years and I've had some that made me feel almost violently sick within about 15 minutes--mostly my attempts to play old non-VR games converted with VORPX, and currently the Half Life 2 VR mod. Anyhow, look into setup tips for your headset and playing VR in flight simulators. The YouTube tutorials by VR Flightsim Guy were especially helpful when I switched from Oculus Rift S (practically Plug and Play) to Reverb G2 which needed quite a bit of tweaking of settings.

How is the G2  VR compared to the old Oculus Rift S ?, to which I am still using...

[AKA_Ramstein]

After reading some more of the posts.. about the VR issues.. I see some more specs, but often people don't list enough info on their hardware... brand of VR, settings, etc... so I never saw enough info to decide if anything was fixed or issues decided on how to fix,, etc.. Hope you guys figured it out, I definitely would be unhappy if I had changed up to a 4090 and the VR still sucked! I need new VR, I am still using a 2080-ti with the Oculus Rift S VR.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

3 hours ago, AKA_Ramstein said:

After reading some more of the posts.. about the VR issues.. I see some more specs, but often people don't list enough info on their hardware... brand of VR, settings, etc... so I never saw enough info to decide if anything was fixed or issues decided on how to fix,, etc.. Hope you guys figured it out, I definitely would be unhappy if I had changed up to a 4090 and the VR still sucked! I need new VR, I am still using a 2080-ti with the Oculus Rift S VR.

You would see massive improvements with a 4080+ and Reverb G2. I also used to run a Rift S.

[Skycat1969]

The big leaps forward with Reverb G2 compared to Rift S are:

- Improved clarity. Rift S is like looking at the world with your nose pressed up against a dirty screen door. Reverb V2 almost completely removes the screen door effect, and the colors are more vibrant and have more contrast.

- You'll be able to read cockpit instruments more easily, especially the increments on smaller dials.

- Better sound quality: The Reverb G2 has dedicated over-the-ears speakers.

- Improved comfort: The Reverb G2 has a foam face gasket.

 

The Reverb G2 has a slightly higher refresh rate, which means you will probably lose a few 'frames per second.' I still have the RTX 2080 Ti so perhaps upgrading to 40xx card would negate this difference. 

[Barn-Owl]

35 minutes ago, Skycat1969 said:

The big leaps forward with Reverb G2 compared to Rift S are:

- Improved clarity. Rift S is like looking at the world with your nose pressed up against a dirty screen door. Reverb V2 almost completely removes the screen door effect, and the colors are more vibrant and have more contrast.

- You'll be able to read cockpit instruments more easily, especially the increments on smaller dials.

- Better sound quality: The Reverb G2 has dedicated over-the-ears speakers.

- Improved comfort: The Reverb G2 has a foam face gasket.

 

The Reverb G2 has a slightly higher refresh rate, which means you will probably lose a few 'frames per second.' I still have the RTX 2080 Ti so perhaps upgrading to 40xx card would negate this difference. 

I have a 4090.  Upgrading graphics card does not negate above items in the G2.  Everything else I agree with.  And yes, it is a step up from the Rift S.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Friction

[tvcasualty]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:29 AM, LF_Mark_Krieger said:

I finally did the long waited jump from 2D to 3D last week, and a jump of PC performance needed to run it. Previously I had a 7700K and a 1060 3Gb so I could not even play at max graph setting even with my 1080 60 Hz screen. I wasn't really convinced of the quality of VR sets untill recently and I waited untill the release of Quest 3. Now I finally have an AMD 7800X3D CPU and a 7900 XTX GPU to run them. Unfortunatelly I don't have previous experience with other VR devices, so I can't compare with any other set and I am still adapting to it and investigating the settings and other config that I should use, but I am quite satisfied with them, and seeing the high end PC that you have I would suggest you to jump to VR right now. 

I amb playing in IL-2 with all graph setting at ultra and everything at max, except MSAA x2 instead of x8 and the monitor resolution, that's not needed when you fly in VR. Not even using Radeon Superresolution And I have 72 estable FPS in each eye. I'm sure I can still improve a lot the quality-performance equilibrium (any help is welcome) and, compared with my new 3440x1440 curved screen I have the feeling that there are too much "saw teeth" effect with distant edges, especially when I am on the ground. But my worst enemy right now is motion sickness. I think I am very sensible to it and if I force too long I even puke. Anyway the feeling of being there is absolutelly fantastic, situational awareness improves a lot, holding formation is more much instinctive and easy, etc. At the moment I am not able to dogfight and can only do some relaxed flying or grounds attacks at most (even taxiing produces a noticeable motion sickness), but I'm sure I will adapt and it is absolutelly worth it.

 

Try to tone down your graphic settings to get a constant 90 FPS if at all possible, overall smoothness will help and you will feel better.
I once got so sick I couldn't eat and couldn't fly again for weeks.

It took years for me not to lunge forward when coming to full stop on landing.  Still gets me now and then.
I also second the reverb G2 and Nvidia recommendations.

[tattywelshie]

Is the G2 still a better choice than the Quest 3 then? I’ve got a quest 2 but am wanting to upgrade. Running a 3080 at the moment with a 5600x 

Edited November 30, 2023 by tattywelshie

[dgiatr]

53 minutes ago, tattywelshie said:

Is the G2 still a better choice than the Quest 3 then? I’ve got a quest 2 but am wanting to upgrade. Running a 3080 at the moment with a 5600x 

I have a Q2 and Hp G2 and Hp is better Vr headset than Q2 for il2 gb, better image , better spotting and identification but your rig had to be strong enough to run at 90 hz for Hp at the same time Q2 can run at 72 hz with lower rig requirements and flickering image at 72 hz.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:44 AM, tattywelshie said:

Is the G2 still a better choice than the Quest 3 then? I’ve got a quest 2 but am wanting to upgrade. Running a 3080 at the moment with a 5600x 

I have heard the Quest 3 is better than the G2 from squad mates who have had both.

[giftgruen]

Even my Quest Pro ist superiour to the G2.

 

You need to upgrade Audio and Headstrap and you also need beefy GPU but in the end you win more beautyful colors and fullscreen clearness cause of the pancake lensess. For me it was a clear step upwards.

 

However, I also liked the G2.

Edited December 2, 2023 by giftgruen

[Duncan_Doenitz]

Welcome to VR. I also had some motion issues but those vanished in a short time. Your next problem will be neck ache from checking all around. You will never fly in 2D ever again.

 

I also recommend Google Earth VR. It's the most amazing tool for exploring the planet and can be a welcome break from combat.

[Sgt_Joch]

On 11/30/2023 at 1:44 PM, tattywelshie said:

Is the G2 still a better choice than the Quest 3 then? I’ve got a quest 2 but am wanting to upgrade. Running a 3080 at the moment with a 5600x 

I have a G2 and have tried the Q2, they are very close, so not worth trading a Q2 for a G2. Not familiar enough with the Q3 to say if the upgrade is worth it.

 

G2 is a good headset and no current plans to upgrade, but if I was to upgrade, I would be looking more at the Varjo Aero.

[Lusekofte]

I feel I need a new computer if I was to upgrade to Varjo. And setting up a couple of base stations. 
To me it is a hassle. I think I rather buy a top ffb stick and make my self a non vr pit with system screens and fly occasional VR instead. To me hardware and feel of flight give more immersion than vr. 

[spreckair]

6 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

I have a G2 and have tried the Q2, they are very close, so not worth trading a Q2 for a G2.

This is helpful to know.  I have a G2 and will stick with it until it stops working or something really a lot better and reasonably priced (without lighthouses) comes along.  I think it might be a long wait, so I am handling my G2 with considerable care.

[AKA_Ramstein]

IL-2 FPS VR FPS is fine, no issues... DCS is the one that sucks FPS. Oculus Rift S heavy old, and  Peripheral vision sucks... but it is what it is.

[Sgt_Joch]

On 12/4/2023 at 2:44 PM, spreckair said:

This is helpful to know.  I have a G2 and will stick with it until it stops working or something really a lot better and reasonably priced (without lighthouses) comes along.  I think it might be a long wait, so I am handling my G2 with considerable care.

 

The G2 is a very good headset IMHO, very good cost/quality ratio and more importantly easy to setup and with minimal compatibility issues in games. Plus it is designed for PC games with a good quality plug in cables (which keeps giving me Matrix vibes ?).

 

Quest 2 and 3  are designed to be wireless, fine for light entertainment, but they can't handle the data requirements of a flight sim, you need to be plugged into the Matrix... They have optional plug in cables, but I was not impressed by the quality/reliability of the Quest 2 cable.

 

Pico 4 was another option I looked at, but price/performance is similar to the G2 and based on threads on the DCS forum, it seems to be very finicky to setup with software/compatibility issue. The G2 is basically plug and play. A lot of players complain the Microsoft's WMR underperforms, but one big advantage is that it is easy to setup.

 

That leaves the big boys, Pimax/Varjo Aero. Both nice, but at 3x-4x the price of a G2, plus you need a beefier CPU/GPU to get the full benefit. 

 

I had an Oculus CV1 for many years and looked at many headsets, there are many newer and more higher performing options, but the G2 gives you the most bang for the buck with minimal compatibility issue. 

 

my 2 cents.

 

 

[spreckair]

@Sgt_Joch  Exactly.  I will keep using the G2 until someone says "I just received my new VR headset and I can both spot and ID aircraft just like on a high def display."  When that happens, I will begin looking for a new headset.

[356thFS_Piranha]

Well I upgraded from a G2 to a Quest 3 and can spot better and ID aircraft better.

The lenses have edge to edge fidelity so a better FOV. I could rum my G2 to the max settings without losing spotting ability but i can run the quest 3 to the max and still get great visuals with better spotting than the G2.

I'm running a i9 13K with a 4090 GPU.

[the_finkinator69]

Late to the party, but on my G2 w/ 3080Ti and i712700K i have to do some combination of FSR and dynamic rendering in order to maintain 60fps in battles. I lose about 20 frames going into a strafe on a ground fight. Unless I want everything to look obscenely bad. 
 

and that still doesn't fix the issue of ground units disappearing. And frustrating that ai ground units dont have damage decals from player hits, only multiplayer vehicles (not vr, just another pet peeve lol). Very much agree that DCS has been putting IL2 to shame in terms of vr improvements. 

[Sgt_Joch]

yes, I keep popping back in here to see what is going on, but most of my "flying" these days is on DCS. VR performance has increased substantially over the past year between native Open XR, multi threading and other software improvements ED has made. I have been able to bump up resolution, graphic settings and FPS while keeping butter smooth performance. I only wish we could get the same thing in IL2. Hopefully, the "new" project will be a better VR experience.

 

 

[w00dy]

I've been away from IL2 for about a year and was a VR only flyer, just popped back to the forums for a look to see what was happening and found this thread.

 

I've had my Dell WMR headset a good 5 years and it has been excellent. But in the black Friday sales I saw Amazon selling the Pico 4 for £260!! So had to buy one, and the first thing I thought was. I must start playing IL2 again, I wasn't planning on buying a headset but £120 off I had to ?.

 

I'll be passing my old headset to my son for his new gaming PC.

[savagebeest]

I buy pc 2070 super i7 9700k 4.9ghz

 

il2 vr (rift s) 80 fps solid but micro stutters when rolling X axis aka horizon micro stutters. 
 

1 year later 

 

I buy pc 4070ti i7 12700kf

 

il2 vr (rift s) 80 fps solid. Same thing. 
 

 

this game needs work for vr. 
 

I test il2 clod VR no horizon stutter at all. 

 

[Riderocket]

41 minutes ago, savagebeest said:

I buy pc 2070 super i7 9700k 4.9ghz

 

il2 vr (rift s) 80 fps solid but micro stutters when rolling X axis aka horizon micro stutters. 
 

1 year later 

 

I buy pc 4070ti i7 12700kf

 

il2 vr (rift s) 80 fps solid. Same thing. 
 

 

this game needs work for vr. 
 

I test il2 clod VR no horizon stutter at all. 

 

My clod vr is unplayable buggy mess on medium graphics with a 4070 and 10700. Where as I can play il2 on maximum with no issues.

 

Edit am using quest 3

Edited December 16, 2023 by Riderocket

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

19 hours ago, savagebeest said:

I buy pc 2070 super i7 9700k 4.9ghz

 

il2 vr (rift s) 80 fps solid but micro stutters when rolling X axis aka horizon micro stutters. 
 

1 year later 

 

I buy pc 4070ti i7 12700kf

 

il2 vr (rift s) 80 fps solid. Same thing. 
 

 

this game needs work for vr. 
 

I test il2 clod VR no horizon stutter at all. 

 

There are so many things on the client end that can be mucked up that I don't think it's fair to blame GB, which has the best VR performance of any sim despite its performance problems.

 

Are you using open composite and openxr?

[tattywelshie]

I was listening to a YouTube vid recently on flight simming and VR and the presenter made a good point re the cable used to tether the headset to the PC. I used a cheap £20 Amazon job, but made me wonder if paying for an official cable would make any difference? Anyone done any comparisons with different cables? 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

26 minutes ago, tattywelshie said:

I was listening to a YouTube vid recently on flight simming and VR and the presenter made a good point re the cable used to tether the headset to the PC. I used a cheap £20 Amazon job, but made me wonder if paying for an official cable would make any difference? Anyone done any comparisons with different cables? 

The Syntech Cable from Amazon is every bit as good as the OEM one. 

[tattywelshie]

2 hours ago, =DW=_drewm3i-VR said:

The Syntech Cable from Amazon is every bit as good as the OEM one. 

Ah fab, have you compared them? 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

7 hours ago, tattywelshie said:

Ah fab, have you compared them? 

I tested the Syntech and all of my USB 3 ports and my best setup with that cable was 2.6 GPBS which is plenty.

I also tested the Insignia Link Cable from Best Buy and only got 1.2 GPBS, but honestly couldn't tell the difference between the two. Test it in the Oculus App.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

23 hours ago, =DW=_drewm3i-VR said:

There are so many things on the client end that can be mucked up that I don't think it's fair to blame GB, which has the best VR performance of any sim despite its performance problems.

I'm sure your intentions are good, but you're unintentionally hardcore trolling people if you tell them that all the stutter is their own fault. There are unavoidable causes of stutter in the game that no one can get rid of except 1C, and when you tell people all the problems are client side they'll go down a bottomless rabbit hole trying to fix the unfixable. Some may even go so far as to reinstall windows. Not everyone is stutter sensitive, so some people just claim everything's fine because they don't notice it, but the stutter is there for everyone. Here's just two examples.

 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

1 hour ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

I'm sure your intentions are good, but you're unintentionally hardcore trolling people if you tell them that all the stutter is their own fault. There are unavoidable causes of stutter in the game that no one can get rid of except 1C, and when you tell people all the problems are client side they'll go down a bottomless rabbit hole trying to fix the unfixable. Some may even go so far as to reinstall windows. Not everyone is stutter sensitive, so some people just claim everything's fine because they don't notice it, but the stutter is there for everyone. Here's just two examples.

 

We all understand the game engine has many limitations. I however have a very good experience with a Reverb G2 at full resolution on a much less robust PC running mostly high settings (no MSAA).

 

There are undoubtedly many settings and programs the person in question could employ to achieve better results. Time dilation and stuttering are problems but they can be managed well. I'm running only a 5800X3D and 3080 and have some occasional stutters but generally the experience is far better than DCS and CLoD.

 

There is no point worrying about the engine limitations at this point as it is likely nothing will be done until the new project relelases.

Edited December 17, 2023 by =DW=_drewm3i-VR