After FC4...

[Trooper117]

FC4, six aeroplanes... but what about after?

Just to recap on the proposed plane set for FC4...

 

The Pup.

DH. 2.

1. 1/2 Strutter.

Fokker E.III.

Albatros D.III.

Roland C.IIa.

 

They could make it seven aeroplanes if they included the Albatros D.II late which is missing from FC3.

In FC1 and 2 they included two versions of the Spad VII, the Bristol Fighter, and the Halberstadt CL II, so I was fully expecting the D.II to have both versions as well...

 

So then, what is left from the RoF stable that we might like to have?

 

The Brandenburg W12.

Felixstowe F2a.

Hanriot float plane.

N-17 Russian.

Sikorsky S-16.

Sikorsky S-22.

Channel map.

 

For me, I would hope, as we have the HD.1, that the Channel map would have to come if you want that Hanriot to have a proper Belgian career... otherwise it would be silly to include it in FC3.

Also, as they have shown us they can do WWI collector aeroplanes if they want to, perhaps they could do more, as we certainly need more two seaters in the game.

 

Who knows what the future holds?

 

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Only N17 I'm ever flying is one with a naked chick on the side.. so the Russian one for me.

 

The Sikorsky 'flying pram' S16 was a lot of fun. Capable of giving better planes the occasional fright. 

[US103_Baer]

@Trooper117 Regarding the DII Late - i don't think you're missing anything.

Performance as stated in RoF is exactly the same between early and late models and they use the same engine. (164kph at SL, Climb to 3,000m 16:10)

I had to check in-game because the store doesn't seem to even have the DII late for sale now!

 

The SPAD VIIs are night and day different with at least 25kph difference in speed and dramatic climb improvement from the high compression 180hp Type 34S Hisso.

BTW both SPAD VIIs ARE available to buy in RoF

[ST_Catchov]

After FC4? ....

 

Zeppelins, Giant German Bombers, Channel Map (including London on which to bomb), Seaplanes, Flying Boats, Italian Map (including more Seaplanes, Flying Boats).

 

Much to do .... but part of the 'new project'. Everything biglier.

 

For example ....

 

Big Crate.

 

Big Gasbag.

 

 

And crew.

[Trooper117]

3 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

Big Crate.

 

 

 

Now that's a flippin monster!

And yes, forgot about the Gotha boys... they certainly need the Channel map to make us over in Blighty sweat a bit!

[JFM]

Totally agree about float planes and channel map, with seasons. Also, Zeppelins would be great.

 

With the pending Alb DIII I’d enjoy the Johannistahl and OAW models.
 

Glaring omission from ROF and FC: BE2. If released, also make the BE12.
 

Other planes I’d love to see, off the top of my head: DH5, DH9, FE8, Farman F40, AEG G.II/IV, FE2D, Junkers J.1, Hannover CL.II/III, AWFK.8, Albatros C.III, Caudron G.4/R11, Salmson 2A2, Junkers CL.I, Zeppelin Staaken R.VI.

 

Do I think we’ll see them? Nope. Just love to. Some are in other sims, but I don’t expect them in FC. Frankly, I’m shocked we ever got the Walfisch in ROF. Really looking forward to it in FC. 

[Guest deleted@219798]

On 11/2/2023 at 1:04 PM, US103_Baer said:

@Trooper117 Regarding the DII Late - i don't think you're missing anything.

Performance as stated in RoF is exactly the same between early and late models and they use the same engine. (164kph at SL, Climb to 3,000m 16:10)

I had to check in-game because the store doesn't seem to even have the DII late for sale now!

 

The SPAD VIIs are night and day different with at least 25kph difference in speed and dramatic climb improvement from the high compression 180hp Type 34S Hisso.

BTW both SPAD VIIs ARE available to buy in RoF

The Albatros DII in RoF is sold as one plane, but you got both models. That's why I was so surprised that the late model wasn't made for for FC and the blunt statement that it wouldn't be made. Maybe the performance is the same, but the appearance is very different.

Edited November 8, 2023 by kestrel444x500

[No.23_Starling]

There’s a couple of major holes in the plane set, mostly in early and late 2 seaters, but more content isn’t my preference. Four things for me:

 

1) AI to match Wing Over Flanders’ Fields

2) Career mode and mini story to bring back the charm of Red Baron 3D and many older sims to interest more players

3) FM rework of the existing plane set using @Holtzauge’s data to tune

4) High/over compression variants for the Hispano 8B and Mercedes DIIIa

 

On idea #2, there’s no sim today with the charm and living world of older sims, providing an opportunity to differentiate in the market. Many of us started our sim journeys flying in the realised worlds of RB3D and even XWing / Tie Fighter.

On 11/1/2023 at 10:09 PM, Trooper117 said:

FC4, six aeroplanes... but what about after?

Just to recap on the proposed plane set for FC4...

 

The Pup.

DH. 2.

1. 1/2 Strutter.

Fokker E.III.

Albatros D.III.

Roland C.IIa.

 

They could make it seven aeroplanes if they included the Albatros D.II late which is missing from FC3.

In FC1 and 2 they included two versions of the Spad VII, the Bristol Fighter, and the Halberstadt CL II, so I was fully expecting the D.II to have both versions as well...

 

So then, what is left from the RoF stable that we might like to have?

 

The Brandenburg W12.

Felixstowe F2a.

Hanriot float plane.

N-17 Russian.

Sikorsky S-16.

Sikorsky S-22.

Channel map.

 

For me, I would hope, as we have the HD.1, that the Channel map would have to come if you want that Hanriot to have a proper Belgian career... otherwise it would be silly to include it in FC3.

Also, as they have shown us they can do WWI collector aeroplanes if they want to, perhaps they could do more, as we certainly need more two seaters in the game.

 

Who knows what the future holds?

 

 

NB WoFF is getting a Belgian campaign in the next update

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, US103_Rummell said:

NB WoFF is getting a Belgian campaign in the next update

 

Yep, know all about that... I play WoFF a lot...

[Holtzauge]

1 hour ago, US103_Rummell said:

1) AI to match Wing Over Flanders’ Fields

 

I just took a closer look at the CloD Blitz module and the AI there are not bad at all. So while I agree that the WOFF AI are quote OK, IL-2 already have better behaving AI "in-house" so all they need to do is steal with pride what's in Blitz. The main limitation in Blitz I've seen so far is that the AI don't use the same FM as the players which is of course not a problem in BOX/FC.

[BraveSirRobin]

10 minutes ago, Holtzauge said:

 

I just took a closer look at the CloD Blitz module and the AI there are not bad at all. So while I agree that the WOFF AI are quote OK, IL-2 already have better behaving AI "in-house" so all they need to do is steal with pride what's in Blitz. The main limitation in Blitz I've seen so far is that the AI don't use the same FM as the players which is of course not a problem in BOX/FC.

The Clod AI is laughably bad.  It’s FM is roughly equivalent to a UFO and the fact that it’s cheating is ridiculously obvious.

[Holtzauge]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

The Clod AI is laughably bad.  It’s FM is roughly equivalent to a UFO and the fact that it’s cheating is ridiculously obvious.

 

Obviously you did not read my post thoroughly enough because I specifically mentioned that they have a different FM and that this was a problem. I was talking about the AI logic in using the plane in hand: In CloD, if you fly the Spitfire, the AI in a Bf 109E4 will BnZ you in a correct way. While in BOX/FC the AI in many cases does not have the sense to fly an aircraft to its strengths.

 

But the AI in CloD are not perfect: They still try to steal your kill and go for the same target as you. And they have a penchant for colliding with friendlies. In addition, when they fly straight, they still after 20 years do the Oleg Maddox trick of flying "straight" with full rudder. 

[BraveSirRobin]

5 minutes ago, Holtzauge said:

 

Obviously you did not read my post thoroughly enough because I specifically mentioned that they have a different FM and that this was a problem. 

No, I read it very thoroughly.  The fact that it uses the FM of a UFO isn’t just a minor issue that can be pushed aside.  It’s a huge gaping flaw that causes laughable results.  
 

Also, BOX aircraft will BnZ you if they have a significant speed advantage.  I’ve had plenty of duels against faster aircraft where it just runs away instead of staying and turning.  At least with WW2 aircraft.  Maybe the WW1 AI works differently.

[Holtzauge]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

No, I read it very thoroughly.

 

No, you are wrong. You failed to read what I wrote properly. But I have seen your modus operandi here so I know you can keep meaningless back and forth's going for ages and I'm not wasting time on that. So knock yourself out. But don't expect any more replies from me. Cheerio!  

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, Holtzauge said:

 

No, you are wrong. You failed to read what I wrote properly. But I have seen your modus operandi here so I know you can keep meaningless back and forth's going for ages and I'm not wasting time on that. So knock yourself out. But don't expect any more replies from me. Cheerio!  

I’ve got thousands of hours of experience in both games, so I’m definitely not wrong.  Cheerio!

[WWBiker_]

 

 

Anyone remember Monday Mono's  we need one more wing warper

 

probably not enough runway for this.

Edited November 4, 2023 by WWBiker_

[ST_Catchov]

9 hours ago, WWBiker_ said:

we need one more wing warper

 

How about two? I'd love 'em but I don't think the devs wanna go that far back. Still, it's a fantasy thread so ....

 

 

 

[No.23_Starling]

19 hours ago, Holtzauge said:

 

I just took a closer look at the CloD Blitz module and the AI there are not bad at all. So while I agree that the WOFF AI are quote OK, IL-2 already have better behaving AI "in-house" so all they need to do is steal with pride what's in Blitz. The main limitation in Blitz I've seen so far is that the AI don't use the same FM as the players which is of course not a problem in BOX/FC.

CloD is an older sim that was rescued by a group of enthusiasts called Team Fusion. They cut a deal with 1C who own the IP to sell officially in partnership.

 

I feel that WW1 is enough of a niche that it lends itself to a similar setup. I wonder if the WoFF team have ever considered this route? I might drop Mark a message with some thoughts.

[Holtzauge]

47 minutes ago, US103_Rummell said:

CloD is an older sim that was rescued by a group of enthusiasts called Team Fusion. They cut a deal with 1C who own the IP to sell officially in partnership.

 

I feel that WW1 is enough of a niche that it lends itself to a similar setup. I wonder if the WoFF team have ever considered this route? I might drop Mark a message with some thoughts.

 

Well I started looking at CloD again simply because I am looking at the FM's for the Bf 109E and Spitfire Mk1 for my book project and I was pleasantly surprised by what they had accomplished in the Blitz module. However, if you have inroads there, tell them I will send them a book free of charge and support in any way I can if they do a CloD "WW1 ace" module! 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

I am a bit careful with expectations about the developers invest more resources into FC beyond the announced content… 

But dreaming is always allowed of course … 

Here my favourite German collectors:

 

Junkers J. I, the first series built all-metal aircraft: 

 

Junkers D. I (J9), also a full metal construction, maybe a bit late in Service and low in numbers 

 

 

Burt here my favourite and I am ready to purchase it for minimum 25$ or more:

The AEG G.IV

Smaller than other G planes and frequently used as armoured ground attackers while the 1918 spring offensive. It could be seen as a counterpart to the Breguet 14 on online servers what carries an insane bombload for that time and have a strong engine. The AEG G.IVk Version was built in low numbers but could be included as an setup with its downwards firing Becker Gun in in the fuselage. That could be allow an insane experience in our simulation ?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by JG4_Moltke1871

[JG4_Moltke1871]

….and by the way, the AEG G.IV‘s Mercedes DIVa engine is already in the game ?

[NO.20_Krispy_Duck]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:11 AM, US103_Rummell said:

There’s a couple of major holes in the plane set, mostly in early and late 2 seaters, but more content isn’t my preference. Four things for me:

 

1) AI to match Wing Over Flanders’ Fields

2) Career mode and mini story to bring back the charm of Red Baron 3D and many older sims to interest more players

3) FM rework of the existing plane set using @Holtzauge’s data to tune

4) High/over compression variants for the Hispano 8B and Mercedes DIIIa

 

On idea #2, there’s no sim today with the charm and living world of older sims, providing an opportunity to differentiate in the market. Many of us started our sim journeys flying in the realised worlds of RB3D and even XWing / Tie Fighter.

NB WoFF is getting a Belgian campaign in the next update

 

My list would be similar, but with the FM being #1, engine variants #2, more 2-seaters #3, and AI #4.

[giftgruen]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:48 AM, ST_Catchov said:

 

How about two? I'd love 'em but I don't think the devs wanna go that far back. Still, it's a fantasy thread so ....

 

AAAhhhh YESSS !! I love these Moranes - both - cause they enrich the early stages - and  especially the N "racer" is so beautyful !

On 11/4/2023 at 2:11 PM, US103_Rummell said:

There’s a couple of major holes in the plane set, mostly in early and late 2 seaters, but more content isn’t my preference. Four things for me:

 

1) AI to match Wing Over Flanders’ Fields

2) Career mode and mini story to bring back the charm of Red Baron 3D and many older sims to interest more players

3) FM rework of the existing plane set using @Holtzauge’s data to tune

4) High/over compression variants for the Hispano 8B and Mercedes DIIIa

 

 

 

Full agree - especially Point 1) is soooo important to have more fun as a single player.

 

2) could be also important to give non-pro-single players more fun.

Why not have a somewhat more interesting storyline, let it be with career options and/or mission types that more have the aspect of fun in foreground.

I wrote some Ideas in another topic some months ago already.

 

Yes, FC is a simulation and not an arcade. However ... some "fun" aspects, some more randomized events could help to bring the old-fashioned story to shine.

Why not having a mission to taxi my Hauptmann's 120kg wife to the next Fluggfeld ? ?  And if I pull to much G and she's getting sick, having 4 weeks of prison ?

( well. joking, but this is the type of "stories" I mean )

 

 

For 3) and 4) I am less enthusiastic because it's more for the professional aspect of the sim.

 

To be honest - from single player aspect - If 1) is not solved, it does not change much if the flight model of my DVa is adjusted by some degrees.

I will still be able to dance tango with these stupid Camel pilots, probably even in an EIII.

 

[No.23_Starling]

42 minutes ago, giftgruen said:

 

AAAhhhh YESSS !! I love these Moranes - both - cause they enrich the early stages - and  especially the N "racer" is so beautyful !

 

 

Full agree - especially Point 1) is soooo important to have more fun as a single player.

 

2) could be also important to give non-pro-single players more fun.

Why not have a somewhat more interesting storyline, let it be with career options and/or mission types that more have the aspect of fun in foreground.

I wrote some Ideas in another topic some months ago already.

 

Yes, FC is a simulation and not an arcade. However ... some "fun" aspects, some more randomized events could help to bring the old-fashioned story to shine.

Why not having a mission to taxi my Hauptmann's 120kg wife to the next Fluggfeld ? ?  And if I pull to much G and she's getting sick, having 4 weeks of prison ?

( well. joking, but this is the type of "stories" I mean )

 

 

For 3) and 4) I am less enthusiastic because it's more for the professional aspect of the sim.

 

To be honest - from single player aspect - If 1) is not solved, it does not change much if the flight model of my DVa is adjusted by some degrees.

I will still be able to dance tango with these stupid Camel pilots, probably even in an EIII.

 

We don’t need a cheesy Star Wars Squadrons type story, more the WoFF approach with a character creation, living world with lots going on at any one time in the map, mission variety, career progression (and demotion - love that idea!), ace encounters, and maybe a ‘winning screen’ if you get the top score for the conflict or beat a certain ace etc. An AI like WoFF’s would be a good step to making it feel more lifelike. Add in co-op and you’re on to something very special.

 

This is not just a 1C issue though. There’s little narrative to be found in DCS or MSFS. As you say, it’s a gateway drug to more hardcore simming. I actually enjoyed beating the Hat in the Ring campaign in Rise of Flight, cheesy as it was. My first real dose of ww1 simming.

[Trooper117]

Yep, the WoFF approach is bang on...

[No.23_Starling]

21 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Yep, the WoFF approach is bang on...

I’d probably call it more ‘role playing’ in an interactive world where you create your own story