What's on the horizon?

[Freycinet]

Hi y'all,

 

I will soon be in the market for a hi-end VR headset for flightsimming. Do you guys have any ideas about what may come out in the next half year? I would be especially interested in knowing whether Varjo, Pimax or other producers are about to release updated versions of their headsets.

 

As I understand it Pimax has a new headset out, the Crystal, but the Varjo Aero is perhaps getting a bit long in the tooth. Then there are also HP and Meta... are they coming up with new headsets soon?

 

Any news or even just rumours very welcome!

 

 

[Charger_]

Google will give you the answer really. But the Pimax Crystal looks to be the one to get. It has the highest resolution. It's expensive though.

 

There is also a new Sim in the pipeline -called Combat Pilot. Hopefully that can produce modern visuals and flight models, and work well with VR.

 

That's the future that I'm thinking of.

 

 

[Picchio]

Hold your horses and wait for Valve's next.

Also, I would suggest to browse other flight sim's forums and compare opinions.

Make informed decisions! 

[Drum]

Hi Freycinet, the Somnium VR1 headset is due out in September and looks to be the next top HMD.  Here's their discord:  https://discord.gg/4HMfdXvh

Edited August 10, 2023 by Drum

[dburne]

Aero even today is still a top notch headset. Still loving mine.

[Drum]

Loving mine as well, the last Aero update really improved the CA.  The only negative I see with the VR1 (so far) is the lack of lens fans.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Drum

[[CPT]Crunch]

Panasonic's megane shitfall is delayed but in the works, as well as a Samsung's Galaxy series HMD in collaboration with google and qualcom, it's also pushed back but being worked on.  It's wait and see for what they're bringing to the table, maybe next year?  Doubt they're going to be in the lower end of the price scale though.  

[chiliwili69]

If your time range is half year then there is a lot of options in the table:

 

 

The ones in red are not currently available as today. (Apple is not an option, put it there just for reference).

So, for for today till Jan-2024 you could pick (just my view):

 

VIVEPro2: forget it. review here.

QuestPro: forget it. review here.

Reverb G2: it could be an option if you can not wait but HP will stop producing it and there is no G3. review here.

Pico4: It is a good option today. review here. 

 

QUEST3 (forget QuestPro): Even if I hate Meta (they destroyed the soul of Oculus) I think they are going to produce a nice headset in terms of pancake lenses, confort and visual clarity edge-to-edge. And with a higher bandwidth than QuesPro. It should be ready in October for 500$ or 570€ (with controllers, no basestation required). Perhaps I will try it when released.

 

BIGSCREEN BEYOND: It is the lightest and with the right top headstrap it should became the most confortable headset. The FOV is the thing that worries me most (I like the FOV, vertical and horizontal, of the Index). I was very close to order it just to test it. Pre-order is open at 999$ or 1369€, delivery Sept-Dec 2023. (without controllers, basestation required).

 

 VARJO AERO: I didn´t buy it because small vertical FOV but people say it is at the top in clarity. Price 1990$ or 1990€. (without controllers, basestation required). The most detailed review of Aero here. (in spanish)

 

PIMAX CRYSTAL: I will not buy it (I owned a Pimax5K before) because not great FOV despite of bulky headset. And batery required even if thethered. There are many opinions about it in this forum. Price 1600$ or 1900€. (without controllers, no basestation required)

 

The MeganeX will have a limited FOV and I don´t think will be ready before Jan-2024

The SomniumVR1 looks too good to be true. I don´t think will be ready before Jan-2024.

 

An of course, the most waited headset for Index users is the Valve Deckard. but no clue if it will be released this year or next or next to next.

 

So, I am in the same boat than you (but with a 4 year old Index  ? )

[dburne]

Aero currently on sale for 1492 USD.

[Dagwoodyt]

On 8/9/2023 at 11:58 PM, Picchio said:

Hold your horses and wait for Valve's next.

Also, I would suggest to browse other flight sim's forums and compare opinions.

Make informed decisions! 

There is no evidence that Valve will ever launch an Index successor. That they could sell one of Index quality at a price that would turn a profit is doubtful because a competitor would be the Meta Quest 3. It's a sad situation because Meta apparently could care less about its' VR customers and can "brick" hmd's at any time and for any length of time or simply just cease to support. Pimax and Varjo are selling $2k+ hmd's when you factor in all the optional add-ons likely needed to give the same functionality as the Valve Index. That is the league Valve would have to play in to compete in the "upscale" VR market. I am unconvinced that the Bigscreen Beyond is the product of VR "enthusiasts". The marketing is slick but limitations of the device are very obvious. Upgrade to foveated rendering appears to be off the table and the need to supply them with a facial scan is another turn-off. Is it possible that one could receive a Beyond that would have errors in face contour, IPD and prescription parameters?  How long to fix if you did. Besides that, you pay now and receive the device "whenever". There doesn't seem any indication that the Pico 4 will ever get an official USA release. On top of all that there is the fact that too many headset reviews focus on 4090 gpu's. The reviews never seem to mention its' problematic connector. Not an exactly "rosy" picture in the "enthusiast" VR market for the near future. ?

Edited August 20, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[[CPT]Crunch]

Or you can just go here and look for yourself.  Pity the Russian space program sets aren't available to the west, spec sheets look fantastic.

 

https://vr-compare.com/

[chiliwili69]

18 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Not an exactly "rosy" picture in the "enthusiast" VR market for the near future

 

Taking into account that Oculus DK1 (640x800 pixels per eye, 60Hz, no tracking, 300$) was released in March-2013, (it was a wow moment), one would think that 10 years later we could enjoy better VR devices, and that´s true, but none of them is just fully OK.

 

Valve Index is peharps the device which was quite OK in all departments, but nowadays is quite old with no great resolution and no pancake lenses.

 

I think there are a lot of clues in the patent registration and code of SteamVR (thanks to Brad) that Valve is cooking something, but no official statement was done. So the hard fact is it could be released this year, or in 2024 or in 2025 or what it is worse never. But I think they will do, there is a 20% market share (in SteamVR users) of Index users who will inmediatly upgrade to the Deckard.

 

But the most important thing is that VR devices are very subjective, depends a lot on the individual preferences. So best thing is to try them.

 

Meta devices can be easily bought and returned if you don´t like them. The same with the Pico devices. And in EU we have a 30-day trial period to verify if the product is right for us. I will most likely try Quest3 and Bigscreen when they will be on the market if Deckard has not been released before.

[Dagwoodyt]

On 8/18/2023 at 3:31 AM, dburne said:

Aero currently on sale for 1492 USD.

WRT the Varjo Aero what is the return process like if you receive a defective unit? Researching online I see a number of posts regarding screen defects. It seems as though the units can suffer from QC problems similar to Pimax hmd's. How much time is involved in returning a defective Aero to Finland and receiving a replacement that might even have similar or other defect(s)?

[dburne]

17 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

WRT the Varjo Aero what is the return process like if you receive a defective unit? Researching online I see a number of posts regarding screen defects. It seems as though the units can suffer from QC problems similar to Pimax hmd's. How much time is involved in returning a defective Aero to Finland and receiving a replacement that might even have similar or other defect(s)?

 

Only thing I had to deal with was a Link box that went bad, and I had the replacement Link box in 2 days. That was a long time ago, unit has been solid as a rock. From what I have seen the Aero overall has been very well received without that many issues, at least comparitively. Been using mine every day for several hours on most days. Love it.

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

WRT the Varjo Aero what is the return process like if you receive a defective unit?

 

While not an answer on your turn-around time, I can say that when I returned mine last year for a refund, they were responsive and made the return process quick and easy.  As I have said elsewhere, my reason for returning it were not due to a problem the headset itself.  Based on my brief experience and what others here have reported (I know that @dburne and other heavy users in this forum have put the Aero through it's paces for over 1.5 years) I certainly would not hesitate to buy another Varjo headset, especially if they came out with an Aero 2 that is an improvement in features/FOV and weight on the Crystal.

[Dagwoodyt]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:22 AM, Varibraun said:

 

While not an answer on your turn-around time, I can say that when I returned mine last year for a refund, they were responsive and made the return process quick and easy.  As I have said elsewhere, my reason for returning it were not due to a problem the headset itself.  Based on my brief experience and what others here have reported (I know that @dburne and other heavy users in this forum have put the Aero through it's paces for over 1.5 years) I certainly would not hesitate to buy another Varjo headset, especially if they came out with an Aero 2 that is an improvement in features/FOV and weight on the Crystal.

Just finished slogging thru: Varjo Aero: General guide for new owners. Is it correct that payment goes to Varjo Finland, but the Aero will ship from China and that the Aero would be sent to Finland for refund/exchange? Also what to expect on import duties? Thanks!

[Varibraun]

16 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Is it correct that payment goes to Varjo Finland, but the Aero will ship from China and that the Aero would be sent to Finland for refund/exchange? Also what to expect on import duties? Thanks!

 

Checked my old order and return from the spring of 2022 and from what I can tell, that is all correct.  Back then, I paid as follows in $$ (no import duty charged to me in the US):

 

Aero: $1990

2 Base Stations: $498

NC state sales tax: $180.39

 

This total amount was refunded to my credit card upon the return to Finland.  The payment was processed through Digital River.

[56RAF_phoenix56]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:22 AM, chiliwili69 said:

If your time range is half year then there is a lot of options in the table:

 

 

 

Isn't it the case that for many flyers like me with a slightly-below-the-bleeding-edge PC (5800X, RTX 3080) and a Reverb G2, there is no clear upgrade path at the moment?

For me, at least, about 2200x2200 is a reasonable sweet spot and what I need is better lenses, displays, edge-to-edge clarity. With my G2 and hardware I'm mostly GPU bound and a little CPU bound with nearby aircraft (because il2 doesn't use the video RAM effectively) at 90 Hz without reprojection, which is what's needed for online servers.

All the options above in chiliwili's good table involve either: a lot more pixels to drive (Bigscreen, Aero, Pimax anything), or compressed video (Quest3, Pico 4). Or, they're older tech.

So, at the moment, I'm left with a choice of upgrading both CPU, GPU  and headset all together, or nothing.

[dburne]

There are some headsets that really should be removed from that table as they are no longer made or supported.

[chiliwili69]

6 hours ago, 56RAF_phoenix56 said:

So, at the moment, I'm left with a choice of upgrading both CPU, GPU  and headset all together, or nothing.

 

Well, I more or less in the same boat than you  (5800X3D and 3080, with the Index).

 

But with my current system there are a couple of devices that I will try just to know if they are for me or not (you know VR is very personal).

 

One is the Quest3. Even if I hate Facebook from the first day they acquired Oculus I want to know how good is the Quest3 with the new video bandwidth, which should improve visuals over the Quest2/QuestPro/Pico4 which uses the previous XR2 chip. Also, if the lenses of the Quest3 are as good as the QuestPro (which I tested) then there are good reasons to take a look of this Quest3. It should run well in a 3080.

 

The other one is BigScreen. Despite it uses a high resolution panel (2560x2560) we still don´t know what is the internal supersampling ratio that it uses. This is also an important factor to calculate the load to the GPU. Also, the 2560x2560 resolution only run at 75Hz which is a good thing since your CPU and GPU will be less loaded. So, I think a 3080 could do the job (but I will not put my hand on the fire for it)

 

But a GPU is always an easy to upgrade item (if budget allows) and I will upgrade it as my VR device need it. I always sell the old one, so I only need to pay the delta.

 

 

5 hours ago, dburne said:

There are some headsets that really should be removed from that table as they are no longer made or supported

 

Yes, you are right, I just was updating the table along the years, but I will color them in grey for the ones which are not commercially available brand new. (There is always a large second hand market)

[chiliwili69]

I just modified the table to include some important details:

 

- Greyed is not available

- Base station need

- video signal

- rendered pixel for 100% SteamVR

- usable low refresh rate

- Gigapixels rendered per second (so it set the requirement of GPU)

 

[Dagwoodyt]

From what I was able to see during Quest Pro setup it would have been my preferred upgrade from the Index since I would have been able to use either headset without removing the Index from its' display port. Unfortunately, I couldn't get past the setup script.☹️

[dburne]

17 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

From what I was able to see during Quest Pro setup it would have been my preferred upgrade from the Index since I would have been able to use either headset without removing the Index from its' display port. Unfortunately, I couldn't get past the setup script.☹️

 

Wow that is a strange one, can't say I have seen reports like that from any others. Meta Support not able to help?

[Freycinet]

Just back from a long trip, and wauw, such great replies in this thread, thanks a 1,000,000 to all of you!! And sorry for coming back rather late.

 

Chili, that is a very helpful schematic, thanks a lot.

 

I will also check out the VRCompare web site, looks very good.

 

I hope others will benefit from this thread too, so keep the comments coming!

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Wow that is a strange one, can't say I have seen reports like that from any others. Meta Support not able to help?

 

Happens on Quest 2 and the QP. Meta support has no response other than to reset the device or return to reseller. Seems Meta support consists mostly of bots giving canned replies. I won't be at all surprised if the same thing happens with the Quest 3  ?

[chiliwili69]

update table with the redenred info of BigScreen Beyond and Somnium VR1:

 

The GPU requirements of the BSB at 75Hz (2.85 GPixel/s) quite above to the G2 at 90Hz (1.76 Gpixel/s)

 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by chiliwili69

[chiliwili69]

I just put in a XY plot the physical resolution versus rendered resolution with SteamVR at 100%SS using the highest mode of each device:

[chiliwili69]

And here another table showing the physical panel resolution versus the required GPU power in terms of Gpixels rendered per second (using the lowest refresh frequency of each device). It is clear that we need a 4090 or higher to run the Aero, BSB, VR1 and Crystal. They run in another league.

 

[Picchio]

It's the game engines' that need to catch up and become better suited for those high resolutions, while being able to maintain high graphics quality. Otherwise, we'll be left with high-res potatoes (which is what's currently happening).

Edited September 9, 2023 by Picchio