how do i take off in pe-2/he111

[a_cat_in_a_plane]

i can taxi and start to take off but cant build enough speed to take off

[Yogiflight]

48 minutes ago, a_cat_in_a_plane said:

i can taxi and start to take off but cant build enough speed to take off

If you haven't maximum RPM, then you didn't set the prop pitch to maximum RPM, the levers left and right of the throttle levers in the He 111 have to be in forward position, if you have maximum RPM, my guess would be fully extended flaps, instead of takeoff angle (20°, if I remember correctly). I never tried the Pe-2, but it should be the same issue.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

If the prop pitch is at full coarse his engines will be damaged/dead way before he rotates to take off. 

 

Probably the flaps.

[LLv44_Oke]

https://youtu.be

/bAcMxWJ_3Hc

...this link should be: Learn to fly...heinkel 111 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Check your brakes aren't sticking.

[Yogiflight]

20 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

If the prop pitch is at full coarse his engines will be damaged/dead way before he rotates to take off. 

Sorry, I expressed it wrong. There is no prop pitch lever in the He 111, it is RPM levers. You have to set them to maximum RPM, to get maximum acceleration. You just have to remind to reduce RPM after takeoff.

 

What Zooropa_Fly mentioned is a good point, too. A short step on the brakes before starting the takeoff run is what I have to do always in the first mission after starting the game. Meanwhile I am so used to it, that I didn't think of it.

[Zooropa_Fly]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

What Zooropa_Fly mentioned is a good point,

 

I spent weeks trying to figure out why I couldn't get a 262 off the ground in the old IL2, until.. 

?

[czech693]

Max RPM and 10d - 20d flaps.  Full flaps would be counterproductive.  If you have full fuel and a heavy bomb load use 20d flaps and hold the brakes while you run it up to take-off manifold pressure.  Then release the brakes and be prepared for the onslaught of torque since neither has counterrotating props.  Take off into the wind and not with it.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

4 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Sorry, I expressed it wrong. There is no prop pitch lever in the He 111, it is RPM levers. You have to set them to maximum RPM, to get maximum acceleration. You just have to remind to reduce RPM after takeoff.

 

What Zooropa_Fly mentioned is a good point, too. A short step on the brakes before starting the takeoff run is what I have to do always in the first mission after starting the game. Meanwhile I am so used to it, that I didn't think of it.

 

Yes I know but if the rpm lever is at minimum, and the throttle is set to max power, you will probably kill your engines too almost immediately.

 

Exactly like if you set the prop pitch manually at full coarse and go full throttle. Bye bye engines.

 

I think it might be the flaps personally because when I got BOS an eternity ago I had trouble taking off with the IL2 1942 and my wingmen would overtake me and outclimb me because I was using flaps when I shouldnt have. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by I./JG52_Woutwocampe

[Yogiflight]

21 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

Yes I know but if the rpm lever is at minimum, and the throttle is set to max power, you will probably kill your engines too almost immediately.

Nope, all four levers fully forward. There is a difference between setting prop pitch and setting RPM. It is built to take the levers fully forward. Look in the Specifications for Takeoff power setting. It is with maximum RPM. And the engines won't overrev, because you set maximum RPM, not a fix prop pitch. You just have to take care, that you don't use it longer than the allowed 1 minute. So takeoff, retract gear and flaps and then reduce power and RPM to climb and combat power.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

@Yogiflight

 

This is exactly what I am saying. Pretty sure its not a matter of rpm setting because all levers must be at full so you cant really screw that up.

 

I fly with realistic engine management. I know the diff between a constant speed propeller and a variable pitch propeller no worries.  

 

So with the 111, all 4 levers full is the way to go. So that's why I am SURE that the problem with takeoff here is not a matter of revs. I cant believe someone would try to take off with both throttle levers to full but both rpm levers to min revs.

[BlitzPig_EL]

You might be surprised.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I haven't really gotten familiar with the He-111 but, depending on the loadout + fuel amount, isn't it possible to be overweight and unable to takeoff?  Some planes in-game do have loadout options that cause this.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mobile_BBQ

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

34 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

You might be surprised.

 

I know. I am in denial here.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

12 hours ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

@Yogiflight

 

This is exactly what I am saying. Pretty sure its not a matter of rpm setting because all levers must be at full so you cant really screw that up.

I don't think the RPM levers start all the way forward though, do they? So you'd have to manually move them, which you might not know if you're a beginner. 

[Sgt_Joch]

It has been a few years, but as I recall, the issue with the He111 is that it is underpowered for its weight so it is not possible(?) to takeoff with fuel fuel load and full bomb load. Try taking off with no bombs and 25% fuel or less until you get the hang of it. 

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

3 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I don't think the RPM levers start all the way forward though, do they? So you'd have to manually move them, which you might not know if you're a beginner. 

 

I dont know....I dont remember, I have been playing with a hotas X56 for so long and I always begin a mission by putting the rpm lever to the max myself. You are probably correct though.

 

But, assuming I would willingly let the rpm lever to min revs and go full throttle, my engine would probably be busted in a heartbeat. Of course taking off would

become problematic to say the least, but the reason would be obvious, your engine would sound like crap, you'd get an 'engine damaged' technochat message, it could also litterally die and stop working. That's why I am assuming that it is not what the thread starter is experiencing here. 

 

Some people say that taking off with a full load of fuel and bombs makes the 111 almost impossible to take off, that might be it. Can the AI take off with a full fuel/bombs load?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

41 minutes ago, I./JG52_Woutwocampe said:

But, assuming I would willingly let the rpm lever to min revs and go full throttle, my engine would probably be busted in a heartbeat. Of course taking off would

become problematic to say the least, but the reason would be obvious, your engine would sound like crap, you'd get an 'engine damaged' technochat message, it could also litterally die and stop working. That's why I am assuming that it is not what the thread starter is experiencing here.

No, in IL2 you can safely run low RPM at full throttle without damaging the engine; in fact it helps *against* damaging your engine. There isn't really any obvious indication you're running at a too low RPM besides the RPM dial and the lower engine sound.

 

Also, we don't even know if the OP has a HOTAS. If you don't have a HOTAS, you'll need to press a key combo to increase RPM; I'm not sure if he knows that?

 

An overloaded He-111 may be the issue, but that doesn't explain why the OP experiences the same thing with the Pe-2.

 

Basically, we know too little to provide any good advice. @a_cat_in_a_plane what is the loadout of your plane (i.e. how much fuel and bombs)? Did you move the RPM to the proper setting for takeoff (see the in-game aircraft information)? Is mixture fully forward? Does the airfield you start from simply have a long enough runway?

Edited August 12, 2023 by AEthelraedUnraed

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Oh good to know @AEthelraedUnraed

 

I always avoided max throttle min revs because I was sure it would kill your engines quickly! 

[czech693]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:37 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

No, in IL2 you can safely run low RPM at full throttle without damaging the engine; in fact it helps *against* damaging your engine. There isn't really any obvious indication you're running at a too low RPM besides the RPM dial and the lower engine sound.

 

Also, we don't even know if the OP has a HOTAS. If you don't have a HOTAS, you'll need to press a key combo to increase RPM; I'm not sure if he knows that?

 

An overloaded He-111 may be the issue, but that doesn't explain why the OP experiences the same thing with the Pe-2.

 

Basically, we know too little to provide any good advice. @a_cat_in_a_plane what is the loadout of your plane (i.e. how much fuel and bombs)? Did you move the RPM to the proper setting for takeoff (see the in-game aircraft information)? Is mixture fully forward? Does the airfield you start from simply have a long enough runway?

I don't think you are saying that you can run the engines at max throttle and minium RPM's.  Max throttle and reduced RPM's perhaps?

[BlitzPig_EL]

Just get in the sim, pull the prop pitch or RPM lever to give the coarsest pitch and then apply maximum throttle and see what happens.

 

I'll give you a clue...

 

Nothing.  As modeled the "engines" in the sim cannot be hurt by doing this.

Edited August 13, 2023 by BlitzPig_EL

[czech693]

I don't know what you're smoking over there but send some this way.  Max throttle and minimum RPM won't get you off the ground, which is what the OP was asking about.

[BlitzPig_EL]

The statement I was responding to was that max manifold and min prop pitch/rpm would kill the engine in the sim.

 

It does not kill the engine.  I tested it on the P51B and the He111-16.  

[FuriousMeow]

I would love to see more detailed engine modelling that would lead to things like detonation or engine failure from misuse other than just rapid throttle changes, but I'd also expect modules to cost more as that would take more effort and research. I have no problem paying more, but there are others that insist we get better than DCS sim for much less than DCS money which is absurd.

[Yogiflight]

@a_cat_in_a_plane, another hint might be to push your yoke/stick forward to lift the tail of your aircraft once you reached 80km/h. Otherwise the drag is too much to build up speed, at least with the He 111 with bombload and lots of fuel. Keep the line of your aircraft on the horizont line on the artificial horizon.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

16 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The statement I was responding to was that max manifold and min prop pitch/rpm would kill the engine in the sim.

 

It does not kill the engine.  I tested it on the P51B and the He111-16.  

 

Is it realistic though? I always thought setting throttle at 60 + inches of mercury at like 600 rpms from a stationnary position would obliterate your engine. I'm not an engineer but wouldnt that recquired insane torque from the engine?

[BlitzPig_EL]

In both the aircraft I tested the RPM went no lower than 1300 at full throttle.  And yes, that should cause harm to the engine, but in the sim it doesn't.  Hence all the "gaming the game" engine setting people use.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Is it possible that the rpm governor prevents the rpm from going too low at high MP? 

 

One thing's for sure, if you use manual prop pitch, it IS possible to damage your engine while taxiing if the pitch is too coarse. Happened to me eons ago in a 109. 

[Sgt_Joch]

There are some threads about this in the FM discussion sub-section. In theory, yes, if you run an engine with High MP and low RPM, there is a risk of "detonation" and damage to the engine. For example, chart from the P38 manual:

:

 

AFAIK this is not modelled in the game, but this strikes me as a non-issue since there is no advantage in game to run with a very high MP and very low RPM.

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

4 hours ago, Sgt_Joch said:

There are some threads about this in the FM discussion sub-section. In theory, yes, if you run an engine with High MP and low RPM, there is a risk of "detonation" and damage to the engine. For example, chart from the P38 manual:

:

 

AFAIK this is not modelled in the game, but this strikes me as a non-issue since there is no advantage in game to run with a very high MP and very low RPM.

 

True. It would only be there to punish rookie mistakes.