Planning for Velikie Luki campaign during Summer '41

[CzechTexan]

I have been busy making missions for the Stuka Ju 87D-3 and Ju 87G at Kursk-Prokhorovka.   Some of these battles are a re-do of my previous Kursk missions but the new ones are much improved with Mission Objectives and Mission Accomplished Logic. 

I still plan to add a few more missions until it's released.

___________________________________________________

 

For now, I am going to do something different.

I am thinking about doing something on the Velikie Luki map for Summer 1941 during Operation Barbarossa.

Perhaps flying the I-16 and/or Bf-110E.

 

*Please post here if you would like to offer information/input about battles on the ground or units in the air during this time period around Velikie Luki.

I do have maps of the front line situation but that's about all I have to go on.

 

[FoxbatRU]

Oh great news! I have long dreamed of flying in a meaningful campaign on the map of Kursk.
As for Velikiye Luki, I would be interested in both the I-16 and the Bf-110 (if it was historically justified). The Bf-110 is probably even more interesting, because. for him, fewer campaigns exist.

[danielprates]

Everytime I read "Velikie Luki" I Have GG WitE ptsd.

[CzechTexan]

4 hours ago, FoxbatRU said:

As for Velikiye Luki, I would be interested in both the I-16 and the Bf-110 (if it was historically justified).

And, that's my dilemma.  I cannot find much about the battles in that region.  I even have Glantz's Barbarossa Derailed but whenever Velikie Luki is mentioned, all the text says is something like... "And there was fighting around Velikie Luki" - which is not much to go on.  Not much in Black Cross Red Star either.  The Battle of Smolensk gets all the attention and VL was on the far flank.

 

If I don't get any more information then these missions will have to be made up but based on the historical time frame and the historical front line maps I do have.

 

All other tips or suggestions are welcome.

[Juri_JS]

In the past I've done some research on the fighting around Velikie Luki in 1941.

 

The town was captured by the Wehrmacht in July 1941, but after a few days the Red Army recaptured it during a counter offensive. In August the German 9th Army launched another attack and captured the town on 25th August.

 

German map from early August:

 

Map from early September:

 

During July 1941 III./JG 27 was the most active German fighter unit in the Velikie Luki area. In August and September 1941 III./JG 53 was active. Apparently the unit was flying from a small forward airfield from 11.8.41 - 6.9.41 called Maklok that we don't have in the game. According to my research it was near Il'ino in map sector 1014. One of the main tasks of III./JG 53 was flying escort missions for the Stukas of StG 1.

No idea if the Bf-110 equipped SKG210 also flew missions in the area, but there were some missions by II./ZG 26 in late July.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Juri_JS

[FeuerFliegen]

12 hours ago, CzechTexan said:

I have been busy making missions for the Stuka Ju 87D-3 and Ju 87G at Kursk-Prokhorovka.   Some of these battles are a re-do of my previous Kursk missions but the new ones are much improved with Mission Objectives and Mission Accomplished Logic. 

I still plan to add a few more missions until it's released.

 

Thanks!  I actually just made a post the other day as I recently noticed that there is practically zero content for the Ju 87G other than QMB, so I'm definitely looking forward to it!

 

Also I don't think I've played any scripted campaigns for the Prokhorovka map, so I really appreciate that.  I would enjoy battles in the area with destructible buildings to add to the immersion.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

I'd love a historical campaign on the summer Velikie Luki map - it's one of the most beautiful maps out there

 

7 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Apparently the unit was flying from a small forward airfield from 11.8.41 - 6.9.41 called Maklok that we don't have in the game. According to my research it was near Il'ino in map sector 1014.

@CzechTexan if you like, and you're going to use it, I could make a version of this airfield It'd be fully usable, with both player and AI able to take off from and land on it, and doesn't require Mods On. You'd have to rely on an Icon Translator MCU to show it on the in-game map though.

[Sandmarken]

Looking forward to this one ? that one fw190 scripted campaign on the velikie luki wintermap where you take off from a frozen lake is one of my favourits ?

[CzechTexan]

9 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I'd love a historical campaign on the summer Velikie Luki map - it's one of the most beautiful maps out there

I AGREE!

 

@CzechTexan if you like, and you're going to use it, I could make a version of this airfield It'd be fully usable, with both player and AI able to take off from and land on it, and doesn't require Mods On. You'd have to rely on an Icon Translator MCU to show it on the in-game map though.

This airfield will be good to have.  Not just for my missions but for other fans of this map too.  

We just need to know how to use it.  If you could teach us about this MCU method then I'm sure many pilots will be happy.

[CzechTexan]

18 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

During July 1941 III./JG 27 was the most active German fighter unit in the Velikie Luki area. In August and September 1941 III./JG 53 was active. Apparently the unit was flying from a small forward airfield from 11.8.41 - 6.9.41 called Maklok that we don't have in the game. According to my research it was near Il'ino in map sector 1014. One of the main tasks of III./JG 53 was flying escort missions for the Stukas of StG 1.

No idea if the Bf-110 equipped SKG210 also flew missions in the area, but there were some missions by II./ZG 26 in late July.

hi Juri_JS.  Thanks for that information.  I also found a little bit more details about the battles around Nevel and VL in Glantz's book, so I thank Mr. Glantz for that! ...even if it is very little. 

But actually, VL was more like a sideshow on the flank, so, it didn't get much attention in Summer of '41, and that's why I believe there is not much info on it.  I don't fault Mr. Glantz or any other author on this topic.

Edited June 30, 2023 by CzechTexan

[CzechTexan]

I have a problem with PORECHYE airfield.  It is south of Velikie Luki city.

 

The A/I planes cannot taxi and park after landing.  I wonder if this airfield is not set up for that?  Or, am I doing something wrong?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

On 7/1/2023 at 12:53 AM, CzechTexan said:

This airfield will be good to have.  Not just for my missions but for other fans of this map too.  

We just need to know how to use it.  If you could teach us about this MCU method then I'm sure many pilots will be happy.

Hmm I think my use of the word "map" may have been slightly confusing in retrospect. The part about the MCU icon doesn't relate to the 3D map that you're flying over, but rather the 2D map you look at to find out where you are.

 

For the 3D implementation; this is done by using a custom surface file. You can read my surface manual for directions on how you'd need to implement it. It does take some extra and deliberate effort on part of the mission writer however, so I don't think "many pilots" would use it; hence I'm a bit reluctant to spend time if it doesn't really feature in your missions.

 

13 hours ago, CzechTexan said:

I have a problem with PORECHYE airfield.  It is south of Velikie Luki city.

 

The A/I planes cannot taxi and park after landing.  I wonder if this airfield is not set up for that?  Or, am I doing something wrong?

Did you configure the taxi path? Please check you've got everything configured as in JimTM's mission editor manual.

[CzechTexan]

11 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

hence I'm a bit reluctant to spend time if it doesn't really feature in your missions.

 

Did you configure the taxi path? Please check you've got everything configured as in JimTM's mission editor manual.

Well, then I'll just skip that.  I do not know how to configure a taxi path.  I did not know it was possible.  Guess I'll have to look it up.  

[Sandmarken]

7 hours ago, CzechTexan said:

Well, then I'll just skip that.  I do not know how to configure a taxi path.  I did not know it was possible.  Guess I'll have to look it up.  

Its not very hard to configure. ? You put the "fakefield" thing you find under airfields in the editor over the aifrield you use. Its an option to make paths. Thats also how to make the tower and planes "talk" . Thats how i do it atleast. Maybe other ways to do it aswel ? 

[CzechTexan]

7 hours ago, Sandmarken said:

Its not very hard to configure. ? You put the "fakefield" thing you find under airfields in the editor over the aifrield you use. Its an option to make paths. Thats also how to make the tower and planes "talk" . Thats how i do it atleast. Maybe other ways to do it aswel ? 

AHA!  I got it figured out and it works now!  I just learned how to draw taxi and park lines and it's such a great thing to know.

Thank you, Sandmarken, for showing the way.

Now I'll have to edit all the other missions haha. ?

[Sandmarken]

3 hours ago, CzechTexan said:

AHA!  I got it figured out and it works now!  I just learned how to draw taxi and park lines and it's such a great thing to know.

Thank you, Sandmarken, for showing the way.

Now I'll have to edit all the other missions haha. ?

Happy to help! ? keep up the good work! 

[CzechTexan]

Hey fellas, I think I have a problem dogfighting over the city of Velikie Luki.  All other missions are fine with good fps but this is the first time I fight over the city and my fps freeze a minute or two into the fight (6 vs 6 fighters).

 

Here is the download https://www.mediafire.com/file/mpt389p0wbmv5t9/VelikieLuki_Evacuate.zip/file 

if anyone would like to take a look at it.

I'd like to know what's causing the problem.

[THERION]

Hi,

 

I just tried your mission and I can observe a massive frame drop as soon as I'm over Velikie Luki. When I start the mission I have a steady 60 FPS

and absolutely no stutter at all - very smooth. My game/monitor settings are capped to 60 FPS anyway, but the mission is butter smooth, so no

stutter, no hick-ups.

Reaching the boundaries of Velikie Luki, frames are starting to drop to around 45-47 FPS... and all of a sudden down to 12 FPS. Manoeuvring is
hardly impossible and finally I get multiple error messages saying "frame rate error" or something like that - I then have to kill the IL2 GB process.

Oh, and before this all starts being uncontrollable, I hear some sirens like airstrike alarm. Did you place a lot of objects around and in the city of
Velikie Luki? I observed a lot of trains in the main station... I mean a lot.

That's it from me. Cheers

Hi,

 

I just tried your mission and I can observe a massive frame drop as soon as I'm over Velikie Luki. When I start the mission I have a steady 60 FPS

and absolutely no stutter at all - very smooth. My game/monitor settings are capped to 60 FPS anyway, but the mission is butter smooth, so no

stutter, no hick-ups.

Reaching the boundaries of Velikie Luki, frames are starting to drop to around 45-47 FPS... and all of a sudden down to 12 FPS. Manoeuvring is
hardly impossible and finally I get multiple error messages saying "frame rate error" or something like that - I then have to kill the IL2 GB process.

Oh, and before this all starts being uncontrollable, I hear some sirens like airstrike alarm. Did you place a lot of objects around and in the city of
Velikie Luki? I observed a lot of trains in the main station... I mean a lot.

That's it from me. Cheers

 

Addendum:

When I try to open your mission file in the Mission Editor, I get the integrity fail error message and finally an error log entry as following:

Object(7734:WP1) >> Waypoint must have at least one object connected!
Max airfields with entity number exceeded! max: 8, actual: 34
Max flags with entity number exceeded! max: 8, actual: 13
Max vehicles with entity number exceeded! max: 40, actual: 65
Max effects with entity number exceeded! max: 12, actual: 41
Max total entity number exceeded! max: 80, actual: 177

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

11 hours ago, CzechTexan said:

Hey fellas, I think I have a problem dogfighting over the city of Velikie Luki.  All other missions are fine with good fps but this is the first time I fight over the city and my fps freeze a minute or two into the fight (6 vs 6 fighters).

 

Here is the download https://www.mediafire.com/file/mpt389p0wbmv5t9/VelikieLuki_Evacuate.zip/file 

if anyone would like to take a look at it.

I'd like to know what's causing the problem.

I've taken a quick look and I've found a bug which can cause this issue. For the Allied flak at Velikie Luki airfield, the "Away" CheckZone MCU is triggered if Axis aircraft are further than 6250m (this is OK). However, the "Close" MCU checks for *both* Allied and Axis units. This should be only Axis! Right now, it triggers whenever the player gets within 6000m, enabling the Allied flak. If Axis aircraft are further than 6250m away at that point, the "Away" CheckZone gets triggered right away, immediately disabling the Allied flak again as well as re-enabling the "Close" CheckZone, which triggers right away since the player is still within 6000m. Et cetera ad infinitum.

 

By the way, I personally only ever trigger for the player aircraft. If the player isn't close by, he can't really see (the effects of) the flak anyhow, while at close range you want the visual 3d flak models regardless of if an enemy is close or not.

Edited July 6, 2023 by AEthelraedUnraed

[CzechTexan]

@AEthelraedUnraed That is interesting because I do remember fiddling with the check zones in this mission.  I didn't really know how they work.

Thanks for the tip!

 

3 hours ago, THERION said:

Max airfields with entity number exceeded! max: 8, actual: 34
Max flags with entity number exceeded! max: 8, actual: 13
Max vehicles with entity number exceeded! max: 40, actual: 65
Max effects with entity number exceeded! max: 12, actual: 41
Max total entity number exceeded! max: 80, actual: 177

 

That is also something interesting to look at.  I didn't know there were maximum limits.    Maybe I should cut down on the populating of entities.  My computer is good enough to handle it so I don't give it much attention.

[Billsponge1972]

I found that if you fix the waypoint issue that is first in the list, the next time you do an integrity check it will pass even with the exceeded limits.

[CzechTexan]

I just fixed the AAA issue and that solved the fps problem.  I'll also look at the other things mentioned above.  Thanks fellas!

[Sandmarken]

I found those limits not to be that big of a deal aslong as you opperate in resonable numbers. ?

Edited July 6, 2023 by Sandmarken

[CzechTexan]

This campaign, DEFEND VELIKIE LUKI 1941, can be found here:  

 

 

...and single player missions of it can be found here:  

 

[jg123410]

Thanks CzechTexan!!