Question for Headset Users...

[JG7_X-Man]

A couple of questions:

1. How do you over come the inability to see your input devices (keyboard/mouse/HOTAS) during a gaming session?
2. Is there a native way to reduce the 1:1 head movement like with head/eye tracking devices?
3. Is there significant fatigue associated with the wearing weight of the device over a significant amount of time?

 

Still on the fence on getting one as a secondary output device verses an ultra wide screen which obviously has more functionality. Not to mention I am holding out for global haptic wearable support from developers.

 

Thoughts?

[dburne]

23 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

A couple of questions:

1. How do you over come the inability to see your input devices (keyboard/mouse/HOTAS) during a gaming session?
2. Is there a native way to reduce the 1:1 head movement like with head/eye tracking devices?
3. Is there significant fatigue associated with the wearing weight of the device over a significant amount of time?

 

Still on the fence on getting one as a secondary output device verses an ultra wide screen which obviously has more functionality. Not to mention I am holding out for global haptic wearable support from developers.

 

Thoughts?

 

1: By using my HOTAS, I have everthing I need assigned to buttons so I do not need to look at keyboard.

2: Not natively. However see this thread.

3: Not for me but I customize for best comfort, in my case with Varjo Aero I ordered a third party head strap.  Most popular headsets will have some third parties offering custom comfort kits.

Edited March 18, 2023 by dburne

[TCW_DirtyMike0330]

1. You develop muscle memory pretty quickly. I run 8 USB peripherals plus a keyboard and fly IL2 and multiple modules in DCS without any problems or having to lift my headset off. 

 

2. I'm not sure I understand this question. 

 

3. This is heavily device and user-dependent. If you have a comfortable headset with good clarity, you shouldn't have some issues after maybe a brief breaking in period. I use the G2 and can play for hours without eye or neck strain. On the other hand, I tried the Pimax 8k one time and it was the most uncomfortable headset I have ever worn (I've had basically every VR device with a few exceptions). 

 

VR is a fantastic experience, assuming you have the PC specs required to give you the best performance. 

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

1.  I had the same concern before getting a VR and that stopped me from getting a VR headset for a long time.  I recently bought a Quest 2 mainly to play the stand alone games but discovered to my great delight that it has a very tiny slit between the sides of my nose and the headset which I don't notice unless I tilt my head back a bit and look sharply down.   I have a rather small nose so this may not be the case for everyone.  When I need to see the keyboard, I just tilt my head back slightly and look down through that tiny gap and see the keyboard.  It doesn't disrupt me from my gameplay because it only takes a second.  I also use a keyboard with lighted keys to help.  Works like a charm for me.   

 

2.  I don't know what you mean by this.

 

3.  I have a really big head (literally and figuratively LOL) so I have no problem with wearing the headset for days if I wanted.  The headset is like a feather on my big head.  I guess it depends on each person.

 

Ill never forget the first time I tried a VR.  I flew a P38 in GB.  I literally yelled, "what the heck!" when I saw the difference in immersion.  I was actually IN the plane.  There is no way I could go back to a monitor for either flight or racing sims, despite the  graphics quality and FOV generally being much better on monitors. I'm hopelessly hooked.  

[JG7_X-Man]

Interesting points! @dburne answered the 1:1 question perfectly. TrackIR and Tobii Eyetracker allows you to customize how far you need to rotate your head to achieve the desired view point in game. Example: To check my six, I need to only turn my head 15° to achieve a 180° view in game.

 

Thank you all for your inputs and I will take them under advisement.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Been a VR user for several years now, my G-2's cord failed about a week or more ago, so dug out the old track IR.  I can't adjust back, using a 34 inch 150 refresh rate gaming monitor I get severe eye strain and headaches rather quickly.  My SA is down the toilet, can no longer judge distances, the ability to fly formation and keep track of flight members is gone, can no longer dog fight, can't navigate worth crap anymore, feel absolutely zero connection with my machine, trim is almost pointless there's no feel any more.  That big blue vast sky and the heights are all gone, feels like I'm gaming through a soda straw, altitude and position mean nothing.  Couldn't even read the instrument panel any more even with cockpit lights on and gama moved two units brighter.  My beloved Fw Anton, who the hell designed that aberration in 2D, how the hell do you fly it with no forward views, it has remarkably good visibility in 3D.  

 

Yuck, had to drop out of the middle of the war last night with my mates, grounded fully awaiting parts, was absolutely useless to their efforts.  Flatland makes for beautiful pictures, but it can't substitute for my real virtual world, in no way.  I'll walk before putting up with 2D again.  I see the value of upgrading to an even better HMD more than ever, cost is not so much a constraint after this, keeping an eye out on the next gen high res OLED wonder.  But for now the new cords on the way, impatiently waiting and grounded.

[TCW_DirtyMike0330]

1 hour ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Been a VR user for several years now, my G-2's cord failed about a week or more ago, so dug out the old track IR.  I can't adjust back, using a 34 inch 150 refresh rate gaming monitor I get severe eye strain and headaches rather quickly.  My SA is down the toilet, can no longer judge distances, the ability to fly formation and keep track of flight members is gone, can no longer dog fight, can't navigate worth crap anymore, feel absolutely zero connection with my machine, trim is almost pointless there's no feel any more.  That big blue vast sky and the heights are all gone, feels like I'm gaming through a soda straw, altitude and position mean nothing.  Couldn't even read the instrument panel any more even with cockpit lights on and gama moved two units brighter.  My beloved Fw Anton, who the hell designed that aberration in 2D, how the hell do you fly it with no forward views, it has remarkably good visibility in 3D.  

 

Yuck, had to drop out of the middle of the war last night with my mates, grounded fully awaiting parts, was absolutely useless to their efforts.  Flatland makes for beautiful pictures, but it can't substitute for my real virtual world, in no way.  I'll walk before putting up with 2D again.  I see the value of upgrading to an even better HMD more than ever, cost is not so much a constraint after this, keeping an eye out on the next gen high res OLED wonder.  But for now the new cords on the way, impatiently waiting and grounded.

I feel your pain on this. Once you fly in good quality VR, there is no going back to flatscreen in my opinion! Glad you’re getting a new cable. 

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

Been thinking about getting a G2 to replace my Quest 2 since the overwhelming consensus seems to be the G2 is much better for sims.  My concern is that HP is getting out of the vr business.  Does that mean we will not be able to get replacement parts in a year or so such as the reportedly unreliable cable?  Im also considering the Pimax for its wide FOV.

[[CPT]Crunch]

1 hour ago, MAJORgoonMADLOU said:

Been thinking about getting a G2 to replace my Quest 2 since the overwhelming consensus seems to be the G2 is much better for sims.  My concern is that HP is getting out of the vr business.  Does that mean we will not be able to get replacement parts in a year or so such as the reportedly unreliable cable?  Im also considering the Pimax for its wide FOV.

If you get one make sure it's a late V.2 model with the final cord.  The cord is generally always been too weak for standing active gaming, but the last version is pretty solid for seated.  I had an early G2 with the original cord, it lasted just over two years without major problems, it was glitchy.  The last version 2 cords had descent fixes added such as a signal boosting circuit in the switch box and an on/off switch in same.  Beware there are plenty of sellers currently trying to pass off early G-2's as later models, if the price seems too good compared to the base listed by Hp that's your first clue.  But if you can get a late cord at a good price, the difference could save you some cash, they're basically the same headset.

 

Somebody could have made some good cash making a short solid seating only cord.  Wonder how many people threw their sets away due to bad cords, there's a flood of them out there used, and they're still bringing a fairly high price.

[spreckair]

Also for your first question, I use VoiceAttack, which lets you assign voice commands in lieu of keyboard actions.  I use this for things that I only need once or twice during a flight, like raising and lowering landing gear or nav lights, and for things that are naturally for voice, like issuing orders to my flight.  This frees up buttons on my HOTAS for other things.

[JG7_X-Man]

1 hour ago, spreckair said:

Also for your first question, I use VoiceAttack, which lets you assign voice commands in lieu of keyboard actions.  I use this for things that I only need once or twice during a flight, like raising and lowering landing gear or nav lights, and for things that are naturally for voice, like issuing orders to my flight.  This frees up buttons on my HOTAS for other things.

 I use to use that back in Il-2 1946 days for AI in career mode. Very good idea as a work around to hand tracking in games that don't support it. I am really thnking seriously about using VR in gaming for sure!

I guess the next obvious question is

1. Which unit would you choose if money was not an issue - best for combat flight simming?
2. Is there any advantage of waiting for PCIe 5.0 GPUs?

 

[TCW_DirtyMike0330]

3 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 I use to use that back in Il-2 1946 days for AI in career mode. Very good idea as a work around to hand tracking in games that don't support it. I am really thnking seriously about using VR in gaming for sure!

I guess the next obvious question is

1. Which unit would you choose if money was not an issue - best for combat flight simming?
2. Is there any advantage of waiting for PCIe 5.0 GPUs?

 

1. If money was not an issue? Probably the Varjo Aero. But I still would not recommend it, unless you already have lighthouses and an audio solution because it comes with neither but has a price tag of $2000. I just switched from the Reverb G2 to the Quest Pro and would recommend the Quest Pro honestly. Fantastic visuals, edge to edge clarity like the Aero (thanks to pancake lenses), great performance on my system. I consider it a big upgrade and this is coming from someone who used the G2 for a long time (actually just listed it for sale because of the QP. So 1. Aero 2. Quest Pro (price dropped $500) and 3. G2. The upcoming Pimax Crystal checks a lot of boxes on paper, but I still think it will be a dumpster fire at launch. Also, you will probably need a 4090 and high-end CPU to run that thing like it needs. 

 

2. Current GPUs aren't anywhere near using all of the bandwidth in PCIe 4.0 yet, it is still just marketing + "the future" 

[JG7_X-Man]

@TCW_DirtyMike0330 Thanks for the info! No need to wait for PCIe 5.0 then!

Currently on a mid range PC (11900K, 3080Ti and 32GB 4000 MHz) but will upgrade to 13900K, 4090, 32GB 8000 MHz if I can find a VR headset that will perform as advertised.

I was looking at either the Varjo Aero or Pimax 8KX (now add the G2) the  as I am looking for a wide field of view and as much clarity as possible. According to this guy:

 

 

- but I have no frame of reference so I am solely depended on the community consensus.

Edited March 22, 2023 by JG7_X-Man

[[CPT]Crunch]

Samsung just filed a bunch of new patents in the last 30 days working with google and qualcomm on a new type of headset they're calling XR as in 'Extended Reality', supposedly a new way of integrating high res screens and pass through cameras.  New yet to be revealed chip involved and some rumors it may be starting production in June to beat the coming Apple at their own game.  All kind of articles if you search 'samsung xr headset'.  They've even filed to trademark it under the 'Galaxy' name, so it's a main line product push effort.  Could be a contender. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by [CPT]Crunch

[TCW_DirtyMike0330]

1 hour ago, JG7_X-Man said:

@TCW_DirtyMike0330 Thanks for the info! No need to wait for PCIe 5.0 then!

Currently on a mid range PC (11900K, 3080Ti and 32GB 4000 MHz) but will upgrade to 13900K, 4090, 32GB 8000 MHz if I can find a VR headset that will perform as advertised.

I was looking at either the Varjo Aero or Pimax 8KX (now add the G2) the  as I am looking for a wide field of view and as much clarity as possible. According to this guy:

 

 

- but I have no frame of reference so I am solely depended on the community consensus.

The Pimax 8kx is definitely the best FOV but absolutely do a ton of research on that company and that product. In my experience: terrible software, terrible customer service, getting a lemon is highly probable. It was also the most uncomfortable headset I have ever worn. Also, the FOV on the 8kx is great, but you are not going to enjoy the clarity you would get in the other headsets. And if you're going to give Pimax a shot, might as well see how the Crystal performs when it comes out in a month or so. 

 

I have similar specs to what you are thinking (4090/7950x3D) and can run IL2 and Elite Dangerous at all high settings maintaining 90fps in the G2 and also now in the Quest Pro. I didn't have that hardware when I briefly had the Aero, but I imagine it would be the same story. You will need motion reprojection regardless in DCS/MSFS (unless you are the magical 1% that can somehow enjoy the stuttery nightmare that is <90 fps) but with a 3080ti+ you should be able to crank up the eye candy and still maintain smooth 45fps with motion reprojection in DCS/MSFS. 

 

Honestly, you can't go wrong with any of the top 3-4 headsets currently on the market (although I still would caution you against Pimax until they prove they can release a product that functions as well as the Aero, G2, Quest, etc).

 

-For a combo of edge to edge clarity, best resolution and FOV: Aero or Quest Pro

-FOV and decent clarity (and a very potential headache): Pimax 8kx

-Great clarity but smaller sweet spot (not getting the edge to edge clarity or a large FOV): G2

-Wildcard: Let's see how the Pimax Crystal does at launch

 

That was kind of a rant and I'll just leave you with this: investing in a 4090/7950x3D stung a little but it is absolutely the most fun I have had flying in DCS, IL2, ED, and MSFS. I started my VR flight journey with a 2080 super and was so sick of having to constantly make concessions, lower settings, etc etc. With current hardware and the sims getting optimized more and more, I get excited every time I get in the cockpit! 

 

[[CPT]Crunch]

The big problem with Pimax is there aren't any new 8Kx premier sets left anywhere in the world, they've been out for some time and there seems to be zero stock and no manufacture active.  The only ones they have is rebuilt and refurbished stuff they call 'outlet', so a top shelf Pimax isn't even a realistic option.  

[spreckair]

I have two HP G2 headsets, which I am happy with so far despite the limitations.  For me, there are just too many competing new headsets either just released or to be released for me to replace the G2 right now.  I plan to continue using the G2 until the headset market matures a bit.

Edited March 23, 2023 by spreckair
correction

[Dagwoodyt]

6 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

The big problem with Pimax is there aren't any new 8Kx premier sets left anywhere in the world, they've been out for some time and there seems to be zero stock and no manufacture active.  The only ones they have is rebuilt and refurbished stuff they call 'outlet', so a top shelf Pimax isn't even a realistic option.  

That seemed the case when I checked also. I don't know that any Pimax headset has ever had wide market adoption. Seems they introduce a new gimmick for the crystal at every turn.

 

1 hour ago, spreckair said:

I have two HP G2 headsets, which I am happy with so far despite the limitations.  For me, there are just too many competing new headsets either just released or to be released for me to replace the G2 right now.  I plan to continue using the G2 until the headset market matures a bit.

I have an Index and feel the same.

[dburne]

3 hours ago, spreckair said:

I have two HP G2 headsets, which I am happy with so far despite the limitations.  For me, there are just too many competing new headsets either just released or to be released for me to replace the G2 right now.  I plan to continue using the G2 until the headset market matures a bit.

 

Reverb G2 is an awesome true native PC-VR headset.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

The big problem with Pimax is there aren't any new 8Kx premier sets left anywhere in the world, they've been out for some time and there seems to be zero stock and no manufacture active.  The only ones they have is rebuilt and refurbished stuff they call 'outlet', so a top shelf Pimax isn't even a realistic option.  

Japan still has a few brand new ones on Amazon.

[[CPT]Crunch]

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