Possible New PC - Build or order custom built?

[dburne]

Hey gang,

So I have been planning on a new PC for sometime around end of this year/first of next year. In the meantime trying to get my hands on a 4090 GPU so far without any luck. However things have changed a little and I find myself with the funds now should I desire to do so. I keep seeing these very positive reports on the 13k series of CPU's. Yes I want to stick with Intel.

 

That brings me to my quandry. I have been building my own since the mid 90's. Not sure I want to do that this time due to some personal reasons. Considering ordering the complete PC kit ready to flip the switch and start installing software.  I am in the U.S. and  would be interested in any feedback on good companies to go with here in the states for a custom built PC. On one hand I love my huge EVGA DG87 case and hate to lose that, but on other hand I am sure something new even if a different large case would be fine. And I could give this PC to my grandson as is.

 

Thanks for any tips,

[DBCOOPER011]

My preference would be to build it. But if you bought a prebuilt, you could get the 4090 in it now it seems. I would say that the 13th series is currently top dog, but that may change with the new 7000 series 3dv cache CPU's coming out in March/April. Check out Central Cmputers in CA. They usually have the best prices around besides Microcenter, and don't charge sales tax unless your in CA...

Edited January 7, 2023 by DBCOOPER011

[kissTheSky]

Microcenter would be my choice, since it’s like you’re building it yourself except for the manual work portion of it, but if I remember correctly you’re at Pacific Northwest, so it’s most likely not an option. One negative on Microcenter that they don’t carry the FE cards, as AIB cards don’t seem to have much over nvidia cards, so the extra cash over the FE may not be fully justified

[jollyjack]

I built my 5th, but i had a terrible stint with both unfinished BIOS versions with Gigabyte, and then a faulty expensive Asus Maximus MB. 

Ended up again with an MSI z790, functions OK with still the first Bios version.

 

Tip, if intel, go for a z790, DDR5, and a 13th generation CPU. Seems a lot faster. No corsair Vengeance no' mo', does not work with XMP IMO.

4090; you'll need a hefty power supply, but you save by throwing out your house's heating system.

Water cooling recommended and maybe undervolt it. Corsair's iCue system is a downer with all the wiring and controller breakout box needed.

Glad i bought most parts from Amazon, their support was really needed.

[dburne]

1 minute ago, jollyjack said:

I built my 5th, but i had a terrible stint with both unfinished BIOS versions with Gigabyte, and then a faulty expensive Asus Maximus MB. 

Ended up again with an MSI z790, functions OK with still the first Bios version.

 

Tip, if intel, go for a z790, DDR5, and a 13th generation CPU. Seems a lot faster. No corsair Vengeance no' mo', does not work with XMP IMO.

4090; you'll need a hefty power supply, but you save by throwing out your house's heating system.

Water cooling recommended and maybe undervolt it. Corsair's iCue system is a downer with all the wiring and controller breakout box needed.

Glad i bought most parts from Amazon, their support was really needed.

 

I am actually in the SE, not far from coast. Bout an hour or little over from Tampa.

 

Ya when I do it will definitely be Intel and latest chipset and ram. I have no problem building them as mentioned been doing it over 20 years now - however for personal reasons mainly related to my health I may be more inclinend this go around to get a prebuilt - long as it can be custom with the parts I want. If I got a prebuilt then also I could just unplug and hand my complete PC over to my grandson , If I did my own I would be more tempted to re-use my EVGA DG87 case as I like it so much and they do not offer them any longer. It is a quandry I tell ya.

 

[jollyjack]

i got my second Fractal Design D6, for the price still un beatable, the second had a fixable small flaw, got 40% off with amazon.

And get a proper miners lamp for your head .... i gave my old PC to my granddaughter BTW.

Edited January 7, 2023 by jollyjack

[DragonDaddy]

I have just “refreshed” my computer by upgrading to in i5 13600k, Evga Z690 motherboard and 32 gb of G.Skill DDR5 ram. This was relatively inexpensive, compared to a total rebuild, and took a lot less time and energy. 
 

If this isn’t too much work, you could refresh your current rig and get your grandson a prebuilt. 

[TheSNAFU]

The pc I had before building my own current rig was from Cyberpower. It was well built with clean cable management and a lot of flexibility in the hardware choices. This has been about 7 years ago but I was quite pleased with that machine and never had a problem with it. Reasonably priced and delivery was pretty quick. 

[chiliwili69]

9 hours ago, dburne said:

I keep seeing these very positive reports on the 13k series of CPU's. Yes I want to stick with Intel.

 

Today the best bet is to go for Intel 13th gen. The special KS version was annonced recently, reaching 6.0 GHz with the Thermal velocity turbo.

 

Regarding RAM models, it is important to review what models are supported for the Mobo you pick, or the other way around, decide what Mobos supports the RAM you pick.

 

Just to review the RAM candidates I would sort them by "First Word Latency", you can do that in PCpartpicker:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/#b=ddr5&Z=32768002&sort=fwl&page=1

 

for example, if you choose Gskill Trident Z5 at 7200 with CL34 you got 9.44ns for FirstWordLatency.

 

Then go to Gskill and see the Mobos that supports that RAM:

 

https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/374/1665644656/F5-7200J3445G16GX2-TZ5RK-QVL

 

I see EVGA has two models for Z790. I think you like EVGA.

 

[Dallas88B]

@dburne Since you have been building your own for 20 years I doubt that there is much to tell you on that front, however buying a pre-built has its own challenges. Obviously local knowledge is what you need most. But I can offer this in case you missed it:

• Gamers Nexus has been running a series "Pre-Built Gaming PC Reviews". Sadly it has not been, by the most part, useful because most of the PC's reviewed (even in the $5000 US range) have either been rip offs, show outstandingly bad workmanship or are littered with mistakes. It does serve, in my opinion, as a list of companies to avoid. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsuVSmND84QuM2HKzG7ipbIbE_R5EnCLM  If you are unfamiliar with Gamers Nexus do no be put off by the presenter Steve Burke - he is astounding knowledgeable, a leader in the industry and been running the GN crew since it's inception.
• If I was getting a pre-built I would want to use a local company so if something goes wrong I could go see them (phone and email problem resolution is a recipe for frustration imho). I would want to be able to specify EVERY component (I think you said that is your intent) and I would want a PC builders warranty. Also make sure you get all the OEM component packaging and paperwork provided to you with the completed build... its really helpful if OEM component warranty is needed later etc. Here in Australia there are a couple of highly reputable companies that do ALL THIS and I am sure that will be the case in FL USA. My opinion again, but if they don't do all this then do not deal with them.
• GN has playlists: Cooler reviews, Case reviews, Power Supply Reviews etc. Well worth checking any component your thinking of including in the build. https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus/playlists  Take a look at the Arctic Liquid Freezer II Cooler Review (for what its worth it is the best cooler I have ever owned) and the review of its build vs the Asetek Design in the Cooler reviews playlist
• Hardware Unboxed, an Australia reviewer, is my 'go to' for GPU and CPU and Monitor reviews. (Sorry, your a VR man so Monitors wont matter much to you) https://www.youtube.com/@Hardwareunboxed
• There are great technical comparison sites that compare GPU's or CPU's I am hesitant to mention them because I am sure you know of these but just in case : https://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gid=3632&gid2=3613&compare=Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 Asus Dual-vs-Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 Asus ROG Strix Gaming OC 6GB Edition  and   https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-12700K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-12600K/4119vs4120

Good luck. I will be pleased to hear how you go.

[dburne]

9 minutes ago, Dallas88B said:

@dburne Since you have been building your own for 20 years I doubt that there is much to tell you on that front, however buying a pre-built has its own challenges. Obviously local knowledge is what you need most. But I can offer this in case you missed it:

• Gamers Nexus has been running a series "Pre-Built Gaming PC Reviews". Sadly it has not been, by the most part, useful because most of the PC's reviewed (even in the $5000 US range) have either been rip offs, show outstandingly bad workmanship or are littered with mistakes. It does serve, in my opinion, as a list of companies to avoid. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsuVSmND84QuM2HKzG7ipbIbE_R5EnCLM  If you are unfamiliar with Gamers Nexus do no be put off by the presenter Steve Burke - he is astounding knowledgeable, a leader in the industry and been running the GN crew since it's inception.
• If I was getting a pre-built I would want to use a local company so if something goes wrong I could go see them (phone and email problem resolution is a recipe for frustration imho). I would want to be able to specify EVERY component (I think you said that is your intent) and I would want a PC builders warranty. Also make sure you get all the OEM component packaging and paperwork provided to you with the completed build... its really helpful if OEM component warranty is needed later etc. Here in Australia there are a couple of highly reputable companies that do ALL THIS and I am sure that will be the case in FL USA. My opinion again, but if they don't do all this then do not deal with them.
• GN has playlists: Cooler reviews, Case reviews, Power Supply Reviews etc. Well worth checking any component your thinking of including in the build. https://www.youtube.com/@GamersNexus/playlists  Take a look at the Arctic Liquid Freezer II Cooler Review (for what its worth it is the best cooler I have ever owned) and the review of its build vs the Asetek Design in the Cooler reviews playlist
• Hardware Unboxed, an Australia reviewer, is my 'go to' for GPU and CPU and Monitor reviews. (Sorry, your a VR man so Monitors wont matter much to you) https://www.youtube.com/@Hardwareunboxed
• There are great technical comparison sites that compare GPU's or CPU's I am hesitant to mention them because I am sure you know of these but just in case : https://www.game-debate.com/gpu/index.php?gid=3632&gid2=3613&compare=Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 Asus Dual-vs-Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 Asus ROG Strix Gaming OC 6GB Edition  and   https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-12700K-vs-Intel-Core-i5-12600K/4119vs4120

Good luck. I will be pleased to hear how you go.

 

 

Thanks much. I live in a quite larger retirement community and I know there are some clubs and also some stores around so I will look into that. Getting someone local to use the parts I ask for and put it all together is not a bad idea at all.

 

 

56 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Today the best bet is to go for Intel 13th gen. The special KS version was annonced recently, reaching 6.0 GHz with the Thermal velocity turbo.

 

 

 

Good to know about the KS version thanks. I would be quite happy I think going from 5.1  GHz to 6 GHz.

Anyone know what form factor the next gen - 14 series Intel CPU's might use for MB? Might it be 790 as well? Just wondering for when it might come upgrade time again.

Edited January 7, 2023 by dburne

[Dallas88B]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Anyone know what form factor the next gen - 14 series Intel CPU's might use for MB? Might it be 790 as well?

The Intel 14th gen processors will use a larger LGA 1851 socket instead of the LGA 1700 that Alder Lake and Raptor Lake chips use

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Dallas88B said:

The Intel 14th gen processors will use a larger LGA 1851 socket instead of the LGA 1700 that Alder Lake and Raptor Lake chips use

 

Ok thanks for the info. Makes me wonder if I should maybe wait for that one.

 

[DBCOOPER011]

Dburne, what cpu are you running now? It looks like 14th gen desktop maybe cancelled..

 

https://www.hardwaretimes.com/intel-14th-gen-meteor-lake-s-desktop-cpus-allegedly-canceled-lga1851-socket-may-support-3-generations-rumor/

Edited January 8, 2023 by DBCOOPER011

[jollyjack]

8 hours ago, Dallas88B said:

The Intel 14th gen processors will use a larger LGA 1851 socket instead of the LGA 1700 that Alder Lake and Raptor Lake chips use

 

Well, good news; the 13th gen will be a lot cheaper then ...

7 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Ok thanks for the info. Makes me wonder if I should maybe wait for that one.

 

 

[spreckair]

I had bad luck with a pre-built HP 30L back when graphic cards were as rare as hen's teeth, which forced me to learn how to build; best thing to happen to me. 

 

I am also just starting a new build.  I read a few posts that the 14th gen intel CPUs for desktops will likely be delayed until the end of 2024 (albeit not an official announcement), so I decided to take the plunge now with a I-7 13700K and an ASUS Z-790 DDR5.  I will continue with my 3080 to see how things run.  As mentioned above, I have a Micro Center nearby, so it makes building easy. 

[kissTheSky]

3 hours ago, spreckair said:

I had bad luck with a pre-built HP 30L back when graphic cards were as rare as hen's teeth, which forced me to learn how to build; best thing to happen to me. 

 

I am also just starting a new build.  I read a few posts that the 14th gen intel CPUs for desktops will likely be delayed until the end of 2024 (albeit not an official announcement), so I decided to take the plunge now with a I-7 13700K and an ASUS Z-790 DDR5.  I will continue with my 3080 to see how things run.  As mentioned above, I have a Micro Center nearby, so it makes building easy. 

Microcenter is a wonderful gem! Rockville store is my “local” store, but my 13th gen KF was available and much cheaper at Amazon than the 13K Microcenter did NOT have in stock. I still bought everything else I needed for the new build from Microcenter. 
 

As long as they have what I need in stock for a fair price, they’ll get my business, which may involve any future PCs that I don’t want to build myself. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by kissTheSky

[dburne]

37 minutes ago, kissTheSky said:

Microcenter is a wonderful gem! Rockville store is my “local” store, but my 13th gen KF was available and much cheaper at Amazon than the 13K Microcenter did NOT have in stock. I still bought everything else I needed for the new build from Microcenter. 
 

As long as they have what I need in stock for a fair price, they’ll get my business, which may involve any future PCs that I don’t want to build myself. 

 

I sure wish we had one where I live, that would be nice.

[paul_leonard]

A new DG-87 is like $300.  A fraction of the total cost.  Why not build your own again and just treat yourself to a new one instead of recycling.  You and your grandson will both be winners!

[TheSNAFU]

5 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

Microcenter is a wonderful gem! Rockville store is my “local” store, but my 13th gen KF was available and much cheaper at Amazon than the 13K Microcenter did NOT have in stock. I still bought everything else I needed for the new build from Microcenter. 
 

As long as they have what I need in stock for a fair price, they’ll get my business, which may involve any future PCs that I don’t want to build myself. 

Rockville, you in Maryland? My Micro Center is Parkvale! Got my 3080 from there and have bought a lot of other parts there too. If they have it and the price is comparable I usually buy from them. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by TheSNAFU

[kissTheSky]

1 hour ago, TheSNAFU said:

Rockville, you in Maryland? My Micro Center is Parkvale! Got my 3080 from there and have bought a lot of other parts there too. If they have it and the price is comparable I usually buy from them. 

Yup! I’m about a 20 minutes drive from Rockville, MD store..

[1Sascha]

If you decide to go pre-built, make sure you get decent components all around.

 

I've just been helping out a squaddie (a bit) who bought a pre-built system from Buildredux. Going by the main components, this is a pretty impressive rig with an i7 13700K and an RTX 4090 in it. All in, he paid ~$3500 for it, but when I asked him to send me all the details, I was a bit disappointed.

 

1. They don't list any brands or detailed specs on their build-list for some of the components - RAM for example only states "32 GB DDR4, dual channel", GPU only listed as "NVidia RTX 4090"

2. They did seem to skimp on some of the minor stuff and there are some minor questionable choices in there -

 

for example: With a system like that, I would've expected *at least* something like my MSI Z690 Tomahawk in there - but they used a basic Asus Z790 Prime. They also put a Wifi card in there, instead of just using a Wifi-equipped motherboard. Plus they sold him a DDR4 based system and equipped it with 2x16 GB of DDR4 3200 CL18 RAM. It might be a minor nit-pick, but I would expect a builder to advise against all of that - perhaps suggesting an RTX 4080 and putting the savings into more appropriate mobo/RAM choices.

 

Now, I'm pretty sure he didn't choose the components on his own, since he doesn't really know very much about PCs (the term "BIOS" had him puzzled for example), so I'm guessing the company had some part in him choosing his build.

 

On the plus side: They put in a 1000W Gold Plus PSU (although again: no brand/details mentioned) and they did manage to activate XMP. His TimeSpy scores are pretty impressive compared to mine - even though they are a bit below average in his class, but I'm guessing that most other systems with his kind of CPU and GPU will be DDR5-based or at least have DDR4 RAM faster than his 3200 CL18, which could explain that.

 

Personally, I would always opt to build my own - I'm not going to pay someone else to have all the fun putting things together. Yes, stuff like cable-management can get tedious, but once everything's up and running, it's just so much nicer to know that it was you who put it all together.

 

 

S.

Edited January 9, 2023 by 1Sascha

[dburne]

9 hours ago, paul_leonard said:

A new DG-87 is like $300.  A fraction of the total cost.  Why not build your own again and just treat yourself to a new one instead of recycling.  You and your grandson will both be winners!

 

Ah I thought they had discontinued those cases, good to know thats.

Upon further checking yeah is seems they are no longer available.

Edited January 9, 2023 by dburne

[dburne]

Ok let me ask this another way.

Does anyone have any experience here in the U.S.A. with a good custom built PC vendor? I would like to pick out all my own parts if possible.

[TheSNAFU]

10 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

Yup! I’m about a 20 minutes drive from Rockville, MD store..

Well then there are at least two IL2 pilots in Maryland! ? I’m just outside Annapolis. Pleased to “meet” ya. 

[unlikely_spider]

1 hour ago, TheSNAFU said:

Well then there are at least two IL2 pilots in Maryland! ? I’m just outside Annapolis. Pleased to “meet” ya. 

I live within walking distance of the Rockville Micro Center ?

[Varibraun]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

Ok let me ask this another way.

Does anyone have any experience here in the U.S.A. with a good custom built PC vendor? I would like to pick out all my own parts if possible.

 

Good morning Don - Since I am not close enough to a Microcenter, I just used Cyberpower to buy a 13900/4090 system in November (once I realized the 4090 was going to be difficult to obtain at MSP because I had already missed a whole generation of the 3000 series for that same reason).  Like @TheSNAFU, I had used them several years ago with good results before building my last 2 systems.  

 

Anyway, I am happy with their build this time too.  You can see which brand/parts they will use on their website and can upgrade/change based on what they have available.  Because of some of the concern with the 4090 cable issue, I paid a little bit extra to get the longer 3 year warranty with shipping.  Definitely not as cheap as building your own if you can find a GPU, but the markup didn't seem abusive like some other sites I considered (and the Gigabyte 4090 actually ended up $1000 cheaper than what scalpers were charging by the time I received the computer).

 

My only complaint was that I paid them $19 for overclocking it since I was hoping to be plug and play.  Well, they didn't, but it was easy enough in bios, so wasn't a big deal, but I would recommend if you go with them not paying for OC since you know how to do it yourself. Good luck!

[TheSNAFU]

54 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

I live within walking distance of the Rockville Micro Center ?

I’ll be damned, another Marylander. Who knew lol! I like the handle unlikely _spider. 

By the way dburne, Cyberpower is located in Cali. 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Varibraun said:

 

Good morning Don - Since I am not close enough to a Microcenter, I just used Cyberpower to buy a 13900/4090 system in November (once I realized the 4090 was going to be difficult to obtain at MSP because I had already missed a whole generation of the 3000 series for that same reason).  Like @TheSNAFU, I had used them several years ago with good results before building my last 2 systems.  

 

Anyway, I am happy with their build this time too.  You can see which brand/parts they will use on their website and can upgrade/change based on what they have available.  Because of some of the concern with the 4090 cable issue, I paid a little bit extra to get the longer 3 year warranty with shipping.  Definitely not as cheap as building your own if you can find a GPU, but the markup didn't seem abusive like some other sites I considered (and the Gigabyte 4090 actually ended up $1000 cheaper than what scalpers were charging by the time I received the computer).

 

My only complaint was that I paid them $19 for overclocking it since I was hoping to be plug and play.  Well, they didn't, but it was easy enough in bios, so wasn't a big deal, but I would recommend if you go with them not paying for OC since you know how to do it yourself. Good luck!

 

Awesome that was what I was looking for, much thanks for the feedback - I will certainly be checking them out.

[spreckair]

3 hours ago, TheSNAFU said:

Well then there are at least two IL2 pilots in Maryland! ? I’m just outside Annapolis. Pleased to “meet” ya. 

Make that three; also close to Annapolis. ?

[TheSNAFU]

Hey Spreckair! This is crazy. I’ve been here for years and never bumped into anyone from my neck of the woods and today 4. We have a MD flight lol! 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

Anyone with unlimited funds building for IL-2 RIGHT NOW would be very foolish to not go with the highest specced 7000x3d chip from AMD. Even the 5800x3d is very close to the best Intel chip in gaming currently on the market at a fraction of the price. AM5 is also a new platform and will be upgradeable in the future so really, go AMD @dburne for the best option sans unjustified brand loyalty.

6 hours ago, spreckair said:

Make that three; also close to Annapolis. ?

I'm in Annapolis too lol

[TheSNAFU]

Hi drewm3i-vr! So five Marylanders and 3 from the Annapolis area. That is pretty darn cool. 
 

Sorry dburne, don’t mean to derail your thread. Not often I learn 5 pilots are from Maryland and 3 of us with a few miles of one another. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by TheSNAFU

[dburne]

1 hour ago, drewm3i-VR said:

Anyone with unlimited funds building for IL-2 RIGHT NOW would be very foolish to not go with the highest specced 7000x3d chip from AMD. Even the 5800x3d is very close to the best Intel chip in gaming currently on the market at a fraction of the price. AM5 is also a new platform and will be upgradeable in the future so really, go AMD @dburne for the best option sans unjustified brand loyalty.

I'm in Annapolis too lol

 

I am probably very foolish then - sticking with Intel only whether I do it this month or end of year/first of next year. I do more than just IL-2 also.

[jollyjack]

I am foolish too; had a 3 year old AMD laptop CPU blowing up in my face ...  no support whatsoever. Stick with intel; never a blowout with 6 PCs and laptops sofar.

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

I am foolish too; had a 3 year old AMD laptop CPU blowing up in my face ...  no support whatsoever. Stick with intel; never a blowout with 6 PCs and laptops sofar.

 

Yeah Intel boards have been very good to me. I prefer EVGA for them anyway and they do a fantastic job. Have been using their motherboards since the Nvidia 680 days. First Intel was X-58 chipset, now on Z390. Been a few years. I think now that they are out of the GPU business they will focus even more on their motherboards.

Edited January 10, 2023 by dburne