Now what?

[JG1_Vonrd]

I, for sure, and I think most of my squadmates are assuming a "wait and see" attitude at this point. Nothing matters until we have some concrete info. Myself, I'm encouraged by @Wardog5711's demeanor in his post's. He seems to have a good heart and mind. Hopefully, the days of "mushrooming" are in the past.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Steam data for BOS and DCS is pretty much worthless since both can be purchased in non-steam versions, but it is 100% completely damning for CLOD which can't even approach the portion of their steam only sub-section.  I steadfastly refuse to ever buy another steam game, pretty sure there's many more who are the same.  Be interesting to know the true number of players, obviously 1C knows with the log on connection every time someone fires up the game, and who set offline mode when.  That and the sales data. 

[tattywelshie]

19 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Eh? Fulcrum does not have anything to do with BoX. They do not own it in any way.

Amalgamating CLoD and BoX makes no sense whatsoever.

They are different code bases, different game engines and completely different teams.

 

Despite the relentless nonsense spouted here about how great CLoD is and it’s “untapped potential”, there is a reason why it only has an average of around thirty users just as there is a reason why 1C abandoned it’s development nearly ten years ago after spending years and millions trying to make it a commercial product.

Presumably, in the near future the CLoD part of these boards will disappear as CLoD is no longer a 1C product.

Very good points actually, as you say, I do wonder if CLoD will go one of either two ways, either being incorporated more closely to BoX or the other way 

[Eisenfaustus]

4 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Lastly, how about people who are skilled in 3D modeling Graphics with either Blender or 3dsMax or who is a knowledgeable programmer with C#, C++ and other common languages or can assist with making Campaigns or missions join Team Fusion. Very few of them can put in 30-40 hours a week on the game, so if you're able to but decide not to help because you'd rather see the game rot away, then you're not helping the situation.

Are you actually suggesting people with these kind of skills who decide to spend their valuable free time with other things then supporting TF do so, because they want to CLOD rot?

 

Maybe they just don’t care at all about clod? Maybe they rather want to do other stuff then modding?

4 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Oh, and even if the player base drops to below 10, TFS won't be going anywhere, that's Fulqrum Publishing's decision, not the beliefs of cynic adults who act like preschoolers.

You seem to be under the impression  that they believe in success in the future. To me it seems more that they decided to allow continued development by TF won’t harm their interest and just see no reason to forbid it. 
 

And no I don’t hate CLOD - I personally liked it a lot and hope to relike it once VR is working. 
And yes I have high respect for TFs skill and dedication. 
 

Doesn‘t change the fact that CLOD is just no competition for modern sims - and there are good reasons for it. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Eisenfaustus
Multiple post

[ST_Catchov]

I just wanna know what FC's future is that's all.

[Mysticpuma]

5 hours ago, Enceladus said:

@DD_Arthur

Somebody brought up the fact that reason the numbers are low is because there is not much advertisement for the game. Enigma's video about IL-2 1946 was pretty informative and how despite the game engine being 20 years it gives you heavy bombers and aircraft carriers which GBs doesn't. Therefore, some more life, not a whole lot, but a bit more could get pumped into it.

If Enigma or another person were to make a similar video about the IL-2 Dover series then perhaps more people would come.

Soooo advertising and marketing the game (which is something TFS just don't do) would bring more players in? That's an interesting concept you talk of ?

 

 

5 hours ago, Enceladus said:

 

Lastly, how about people who are skilled in 3D modeling Graphics with either Blender or 3dsMax or who is a knowledgeable programmer with C#, C++ and other common languages or can assist with making Campaigns or missions join Team Fusion.

How would community members learn about this? Where is this suggestion advertised or marketed (and I don't mean a throw away comment in a soon the be lost thread)? 

 

[Irishratticus72]

12 hours ago, Wardog5711 said:

Well, I love WWII and cold war history. Especially things that go bang, bang, bang.  That is my passion and my hobby. 

And I've been a smart-ass my whole life so absurd thread derailments that do not devolve into personal attacks is no big thing.

I also spent 8+ years as an admin and moderator on a regional Mil-Sim airsoft forum. Dealing with actual teenagers and adults that still act like teenagers being keyboard commandoes is nothing new. ?

 

 

 

I used to be an Airsofter, until I took a point two G to the knee.

Was I good?

I was hated.

?

[76SQN-Minimayhemtemp]

1 hour ago, ST_Catchov said:

I just wanna know what FC's future is that's all.

 

Me too.  Over to WOFF now which depressingly has a superior (e.g. not broken) flight model.  And more planes.  And a campaign.  IMO only thing FC has going for it atm is VR, which while amazing, FC for me has completely lost its enjoyment factor as I'm sick of making do when playing with such a poor FM/DM.

[dburne]

Well maybe sometime this week we will get an announcement by 1CGS (or whatever they are known as now) as to the next chapter and their intents with the direction of the franchise.

[Enceladus828]

6 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Are you actually suggesting people with these kind of skills who decide to spend their valuable free time with other things then supporting TF do so, because they want to CLOD rot?

Goodness, no. The point I was getting at was people who are interested in combat flight sims and have these coding skills and free the time to do so should join TF. If they don't have the necessary time or skills then that's fine. I didn't word the last part in my original post correctly and probably shouldn't have included it.

 

5 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Soooo advertising and marketing the game (which is something TFS just don't do) would bring more players in? That's an interesting concept you talk of ?

What I meant was a community member talking about the game in a video (like what Enigma did for IL-2 1946) and making positive statements about it.

 

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

2 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

 

What I meant was a community member talking about the game in a video (like what Enigma did for IL-2 1946) and making positive statements about it.

That alone won‘t cut it I‘m afraid. Growling Sidewinder already did a very good review on CloD. What Enigma did with 1946 was to feature it in his streams and videos and engage his discord to play a campaign with it. Boom, automatically you have a lot of people buying a 20 year old game, looking past all its flaws and out dated graphics, UI etc and enjoying it.

 

Back to BoS, I was hoping for an announcement last Friday… hope we hear something this week.

[Mmaruda]

1 hour ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

Boom, automatically you have a lot of people buying a 20 year old game, looking past all its flaws and out dated graphics, UI etc and enjoying it.

 

What a time to be alive. Random obscure youtuber makes a video mentioning old game and thousands of people spend their hard earned cash (in Minecraft probably). Hey I have an idea, let's have all the flightsim tubers go back even further, maybe with enough traction Ubisoft will do a Pacific Fighters Remake?

1 hour ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

I was hoping for an announcement last Friday… hope we hear something this week.

I've been following this thread for some time now and honestly you people are weird, Normandy just launched weeks ago. There's new content, map, career, multiplayer... Are you playing it? What difference does it make if they announce Battle of Cold War ranging from Korea to Operation Victory coming in just two years? It's not like there's not enough content in the sim as is now. Do a P-40 career if you're bored.

[Bonnot]

3 minutes ago, Mmaruda said:

Normandy just launched weeks ago. There's new content, map, career, multiplayer... Are you playing it?

Yes, and it is great,  but....

I'd like to see real improvements on the existing maps : some life, vehicules, troops, smokes, AAA, destroyed bridges, shellholes, etc...something you see in every set of WWII pictures....make maps with different states of war scares instead of peaceful towns : something they did very well on the sets of Stalingrad !

Possibility to play TC in west Europe by adding US/UK tanks on a pare with ostfront ....

Or expand the period to 1939/41 with some planes and vehicles...

There are so many things to do with minor adjustements without making brand new BoXXX

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

7 minutes ago, Mmaruda said:

 

What a time to be alive. Random obscure youtuber makes a video mentioning old game and thousands of people spend their hard earned cash (in Minecraft probably). Hey I have an idea, let's have all the flightsim tubers go back even further, maybe with enough traction Ubisoft will do a Pacific Fighters Remake?

 

What‘s up with  smart ass comment? 
Who said thousands of players? Random to you maybe, but not to the DCS community. 
You just had a great idea! Do it. Post about the results when you are done.

 

 

The future of the series interests me. Good enough a reason for me and apparently many others too to talk about it. 
 

 

[No_Face]

41 minutes ago, Mmaruda said:

I've been following this thread for some time now and honestly you people are weird, Normandy just launched weeks ago. There's new content, map, career, multiplayer... Are you playing it?

No, I don't play it.
Why not? Because it's not finished and that's why I'm looking forward to hear what the devs will say about the next part of the franchise.

-I'm French but the game isn't translated so it's already a pain.
-We don't have enough fuel to do a whole mission.
-The sea, one of the main element of this map in my eyes is not beautiful. It is flat. When I see pictures of the sea of CloDo, there is no photo, CloDo is far ahead.
-The colors of the terrain don't look very good to me, here too, CloDo's colors look better.
-I tested the Me 410 (I love this plane), I got bored very quickly, why?

Because the sight and the correction system are not explained so my bombs do not fall where I want.
Because I am not sure of the target I have to bomb "Bomb the X depot", I drop my bombs on it, it explodes but my mission is not accomplished, obviously, it was not that.
Is it normal not to have reconnaissance pictures during a briefing to know the targets BEFORE the mission?
The map (paper) does not give any information, the different altitude are not indicated, however it is an element to be taken into account to drop its bombs.
-My missions take place at night but they are not black with a beautiful sky, no they are grey.
-Tanks have a great tool called "Station Note", it's both a description, a manual and a reminder that reminds us, for example, which keys to press to perform which action, why don't planes have this? Instead, to check the keys associated with certain actions, you have to search through all the possibilities (so some of them sometimes look similar).

 

In short, there are a lot of things that are wrong (the list being non exaustive), some of the points listed are not new, but I fear that they will remain present for a while and if it was defensible in the past, the more the simulation evolves, the less I tolerate them.

 

What I fear is that the game will always offer more content but without taking the time to clean up the mistakes it may leave in its path. So it's a kind of steamroller that will only move forward, offering more and more but possibly being less and less good, less and less enjoyable to play.

 

By the way, I am more of a tank player than an airplane player nowadays, so believe me, I'm looking forward to the announcements...

 

Not to mention the fact that there is currently no communication about recent events that we, as players but also customers, feel are important.

 

We are told to be patient and that it will happen, ok, no problem... in fact yes, the problem is that we have been patient for a while.
I waited until BoN came out, hoping that it would free up human resources so that they could focus on the other modules.
Result: The different collectors are still not delivered, the bugs are not fixed and the possible new features that could motivate us to wait again, not announced.

Edited October 31, 2022 by No_Face

[Wardog5711]

Quote

 Because it's not finished and that's why I'm looking forward to hear what the devs will say about the next part of the franchise.

OK, I am trying to follow as many of the what's wrong with IL-2 threads as I can to gather topics for the upcoming stream.  

Some of the questions have easy answers, others not so much. 

But the "Because it's not finished" has me confused.  What do you feel is not finished about BON that would have anything to do with the next project?

Bug fixes, something blatantly broken etc. And I'm not trying to be an ass.  I'm just looking for some details that I can translate into something to send up the chain of command.

[BladeMeister]

3 hours ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

 Boom, automatically you have a lot of people buying a 20 year old game, looking past all its flaws and out dated graphics, UI etc and enjoying it.

 

 

An honest question. How do we know these were new customers that bought IL2 1946?

 

S!Blade<><

[343KKT_Kintaro]

37 minutes ago, No_Face said:

it's not finished

 

 

And it will never be finished. Since the 1970s, PC flight simulation is an ongoing process and we are not in 2122, we are in 2022, sadly still in the 21st Century. Accept it: chess is thousands of years old, but our favourite category of games still is in diapers.

 

"Battle of Normandy" is a top noch product taking both its time and category into accoung: it's a survey type sim, with 10 player-flyables and a huge map. What did you expect fella? every landmark in every city? every bridge? Every town? Every farm? Every cow? This is "IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Normandy", for "Cattle of Normandy", it's over there:

 

https://www.lanormande.com/

 

Comme on... have fun my friends, don't you remember the 1990s? Do some of you remember flight sims in the 1980s? Believe me... we have good flight sims now...

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by 343KKT_Kintaro
typo

[gn728]

16 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

What do you feel is not finished about BON

Well if you want to ask upstairs - I'm curious about when BON single missions will come.  If I remember right, the BP missions didn't come until months after release.

But hey - lol, no pitchfork here - just wondering.....

[Wardog5711]

I will add that to the list.  

[Eisenfaustus]

9 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Every cow?

Na - the cow DM is atrocious! Only their FM is worse - I‘m done with cows in this sim!

[cardboard_killer]

what happens now? now we dance!

 

 

[Bonnot]

17 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

What did you expect fella? every landmark in every city? every bridge? Every town? Every farm? Every cow?

For instance I expect Cities -which are extremely well crafted with recognizable features-  be realistically cleaned :  no grass or bush are growing in the middle of streets in a civilized city in 1944 ...... this is just a sample which is repeatedly designed !

[Mmaruda]

47 minutes ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

What‘s up with  smart ass comment? 

Nothing, just a little banter, but I guess I overdid it, sorry. The thing is, I don't really think we should look up to youtubers to promote the hobby (race sims tubers did that and it ruined public online). I don't think a single purchase was made as a result of Enigma's vid, more likely a lot of people who already had it, re-installed it (those who didn't probably pirated it, not that it matters cause the original devs won't see a dime of the sales now anyway) and everyone was disappointed. I don't think amounts of content alone is what translates to a success of a sim nowadays, if that was the case DCS Warbirds would have been dead after the Dora. I also hate to break it to you, but the core of DCS community doesn't care at all for WWII. Your typical DCS player is someone who buys stuff (currently older Cold War jest) for the learning experience and a great deal stops there, some do online airquake and that's it. When the F-16 released a good amount of BMS folks were impressed, but almost all went back to BMS and the exceptions were those who fly invested in VR. The reality is that it's a nieche hobby and actively developed titles work on a tight budged, probably with constant crunch.

 

There is passion behind development and you have to appreciate it, especially considering that the fans are never ever ever satisfied with their rivet counting, .50 cal buff/ners plox and endless 190 windshield bar discussions (2 decades long and still going strong). Just because someone promotes something, does not mean that while the promo material is popular it will translate to sales. For it to translate to sales it would have to be promoted with a broad appeal and once that happens successfully, you end up with the community where the majority are not the core fans, but people who want the game to be something else. Check out Total War series if you want a great example. At the end of the day, the devs are going to do what they have the tech, manpower and capacity for and no e-celeb is going to change that in this genre.

 

45 minutes ago, No_Face said:

I'm French but the game isn't translated so it's already a pain.

You seem to do well in English though?

 

48 minutes ago, No_Face said:

I tested the Me 410 (I love this plane), I got bored very quickly, why?

So let's be clear here, you got bored with the plane and you want the people in the forums to tell you why that is the case?

 

49 minutes ago, No_Face said:

What I fear is that the game will always offer more content but without taking the time to clean up the mistakes it may leave in its path.

I could answer other points in your post, but I think this one sums it up pretty well - I've been with this title since it went early access, or beta or whatever it was called back then. I can still see its flaws and some unfulfilled promises (where are my torpedoes damnit!?), but just how much the sim transformed from the initial release of Stalingrad to what we have now is crazy good. What I feel is that it more than delivers on its initial promise and then some. So far there's been a lot of controversial topics on guns, damage, flight models pretty much everything, because the only thing flight-simmers love more than flight simming is bitching on the forums. The devs are competent, so fat the series is in good shape and there is no indication that this is going to change. If future shows there's a shift here, I'll probably be the fist to come here and moan.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

36 minutes ago, BladeMeister said:

An honest question. How do we know these were new customers that bought IL2 1946?

 

S!Blade<><

By reading the comments on the discord. 
 

Edit: sorry, editing so it doesn‘t come across the wrong way. I was reading the comments there.

Edited October 31, 2022 by 9./JG52_J-HAT

[No_Face]

49 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

But the "Because it's not finished" has me confused.  What do you feel is not finished about BON that would have anything to do with the next project?

Bug fixes, something blatantly broken etc. And I'm not trying to be an ass.  I'm just looking for some details that I can translate into something to send up the chain of command.

Okay, maybe my "it's not finished" is a bad fit.
What I meant was what I say just below in my initial post, that is the feeling of not being able to fully enjoy it at the end, because of the lack of translation for example, or missions without returns.
It wasn't about the map itself.

 

@343KKT_Kintaro Why does there always have to be a guy who thinks he's clever (here, you) with his deliberately exaggerated answers, pretending not to understand the substance of the thought?
 

13 minutes ago, Mmaruda said:

You seem to do well in English though?

No, it's not me, it's DeepL.

 

13 minutes ago, Mmaruda said:

So let's be clear here, you got bored with the plane and you want the people in the forums to tell you why that is the case?

No, of course not. My layout was obviously not clear enough. The "why" was rhetorical, the answers were right underneath, those are the sentences starting with "Because".

[Mmaruda]

1 minute ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

By reading the comments on the discord. 

Any particular one? Also, as I said it doesn't really mean sales, you can download the GOG version from on of the dozens of sites that hosts their DRM-free files. Regardless, it's not going to translate to a growth of popularity if 1946, HSFX or SAS forums traffic. I've grown up with this sim, I still remember the amounts of verbal vomit spilled when Forgotten Battles released and then when Pacific Fighters came it was even worse. Anyone who hasn't experienced it back in the day and came to the hobby with Great Battles or DCS will try it, have some fun with it and quickly discover it's wide as an ocean and deep as a puddle by today's standards. It was a great sim at it's time, but even now with all the impressive mods, tons of content, that doesn't fix the outdated FMs, clunky AI, terribly boring DGEN campaigns and many more issues. When Oleg and others were done with 1946 with patch 4.08, their next project was to be Storm of War which ended up being CLOD. Everyone back then assumed they would be using the same engine, but they wrote a new one. Why? Because the old engine couldn't do stuff that the fans expected. Nobody who reinstalls 1946 stay with it longer than a few days and those who are still playing it, never moved on.

[Wardog5711]

@ No_Face.  Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. 

I'm not sure what can be done about various translations, but I will add that to my list. It never hurts to ask.

[Guest deleted@83466]

4 minutes ago, No_Face said:

 

 

@343KKT_Kintaro Why does there always have to be a guy who thinks he's clever (here, you) with his deliberately exaggerated answers, pretending not to understand the substance of the thought?
 

No, it's not me, it's DeepL.

 

 

No_Face, in fairness, Kintaro is also French, but I don’t think he uses a translator, only his own English.  He does pretty well most of the time, so cut him some slack.

[No_Face]

What ?
You think I'm making fun of his English?
It's his words that I find inappropriate, I'm not criticizing the way he expresses them. I'm criticizing the content, not the form.

Edited October 31, 2022 by No_Face

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

43 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

I will add that to the list.  

It is a pity that the hedges on Normandy map are technically impossible ?

[Wardog5711]

Not targeted at anyone directly. Just reading the room.....

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

21 minutes ago, Mmaruda said:

Any particular one? Also, as I said it doesn't really mean sales, you can download the GOG version from on of the dozens of sites that hosts their DRM-free files. Regardless, it's not going to translate to a growth of popularity if 1946, HSFX or SAS forums traffic. I've grown up with this sim, I still remember the amounts of verbal vomit spilled when Forgotten Battles released and then when Pacific Fighters came it was even worse. Anyone who hasn't experienced it back in the day and came to the hobby with Great Battles or DCS will try it, have some fun with it and quickly discover it's wide as an ocean and deep as a puddle by today's standards. It was a great sim at it's time, but even now with all the impressive mods, tons of content, that doesn't fix the outdated FMs, clunky AI, terribly boring DGEN campaigns and many more issues. When Oleg and others were done with 1946 with patch 4.08, their next project was to be Storm of War which ended up being CLOD. Everyone back then assumed they would be using the same engine, but they wrote a new one. Why? Because the old engine couldn't do stuff that the fans expected. Nobody who reinstalls 1946 stay with it longer than a few days and those who are still playing it, never moved on.

 

No, just the general perception. Some asking where to buy, some how to install the mods (new users I assume), some asking about how to get it…

Could very well be that the actual sales are minimal from such an action but my impression was that people were getting the game to play in the campaign. 
 

I agree it will probably be a short term thing. Play the campaign, maybe another one down the road but it won‘t become their primary sim by any chance. 

[Juri_JS]

1 hour ago, Wardog5711 said:

OK, I am trying to follow as many of the what's wrong with IL-2 threads as I can to gather topics for the upcoming stream. 

Do you mean the stream with Albert Zhiltsov and Daniil Tuseev on 9 November that was announced on the games Russian Telegram channel?

[Wardog5711]

I wasn't aware that they had announced it on VK yet.  My last comms were the date was unconfirmed pending the venue readiness.

Did they mention the times too? Those were also still tentative. 

 

[Juri_JS]

4 minutes ago, Wardog5711 said:

I wasn't aware that they had announced it on VK yet.  My last comms were the date was unconfirmed pending the venue readiness.

Did they mention the times too? Those were also still tentative. 

 

It was announced both on VK and Telegram, no time was mentioned.

 

By the way, I think some of the posts from the Russian Telegram channel would be interesting for the international community too. It would be nice if there was a way to share them.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Juri_JS

[Wardog5711]

Thanks.

There is still a lot of up front work to do, but I may as well go ahead and post the date on here. The rest is still TBD.

[Mmaruda]

18 minutes ago, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

No, just the general perception. Some asking where to buy, some how to install the mods (new users I assume), some asking about how to get it…

Could very well be that the actual sales are minimal from such an action but my impression was that people were getting the game to play in the campaign. 
 

I agree it will probably be a short term thing. Play the campaign, maybe another one down the road but it won‘t become their primary sim by any chance. 

 

So just like any other youtube video that got traction, it produces a bunch of tourists? Don't expect IL-2 to grow or the devs benefiting from it. Just like Troika people aren't buying mansions with all the dosh the got after that sick Mandalore vid on Arcanum. If you actually do believe in youtube influencers, check out Ralfi's vid on getting started in DCS for poor people. I think it's much more useful. Hell, if I were to make vid encouraging complete normies to try out flight sims on a budget I'd actually recommend starting with 1946 (but also telling them to not waste time on mods and play one of the 80-mission long campaigns first to see, if that's to their fancy). ?️‍?

 

***I'm putting a rainbow flag here, cause I wanted to drop an emote to indicate there's at least some humor in my post and I'm not just an alpha-hole (which I concede that everyone perceives me as), but there doesn't seem to be any cool flight-sim related ones anymore? What happened to that emote where the ball-guy in a pilot hat was furiously wiggling the joystick?

[DD_Arthur]

32 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Do you mean the stream with Albert Zhiltsov and Daniil Tuseev on 9 November that was announced on the games Russian Telegram channel?

Alberts back? Oh boy…..?

Edited October 31, 2022 by DD_Arthur

[BladeMeister]

? That's not just some bald guy, that's me trying MP and getting killed every 2 seconds. Back to SP.

 

S!Blade<><

Edited October 31, 2022 by BladeMeister