Any plans to overhaul the UI?

[Bell]

When a new player of the game wants to try a cold start of an airplane,he would find it impossible unless he plays MP because he doesn't know using FMB to do this.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/63950/discussions/0/864977564551010417/

[No.54_Reddog]

It is very difficult to have a sane and sensible discussion with "the gatekeeper" on any topic because the responses are a mixture of hyperbole, straw men arguments or whataboutisms, interspersed with utter ridiculousness and personal insults.

 

It is plain to any one who has been around CLOD for any length of time that the UI and some of the interactions could be improved. Just like the "how does one change a loadout" query these problems arise with regularity and while it's true that the old hands have circumvented, ignored or persevered to the point that it's now just a slight inconvenience (I have about 15 copies of my control binds "just in case" for example) there are many who do not pass that first hurdle. I thought it was a given that we wanted more players, and wanted those players to stick around beyond the initial couple of days. Look at the steam charts and the numbers for the release of Blitz and then Tobruk and see how quickly they fall back to the background level.

 

If Team Fusion are unable or unwilling through lack of capability/access/knowledge or capacity/prioritisation of "new" over "old" to address the initial question then that is their commercial decision. But to try and stifle public discourse and interaction with the developers by paying customers "the gatekeeper" does us all a disservice.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 hour ago, No.54_Reddog said:

a mixture of hyperbole, straw men arguments or whataboutisms, interspersed with utter ridiculousness and personal insults.

 

 

Hyperbole... oh yes, for sure, but that was humorous. Other thant that... what straw MAN arguments Reddog? ("man", not "men").  What whataboutisms? and what personal insults? For now I won't share the personal message I sent to Dagwoodyt (he, recently on the 26th of August, said more or less the same about insults... and he's not responding to my PM) same as, for now, I won't share a personal message I received yesterday, a message where I am kindly receiving the epithet of... "bastard". Oh yes, lovely, I know. The forum user who sent that message perfectly knows what I'm talking about.

 

For the rest of your post, Reddog, you are not responding to my point. BOO is not responding to my point. Dagwoodyt is not responding to my point. Nobody is responding to my point.

 

Let's see, Reddog, what you say about... something:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, No.54_Reddog said:

If Team Fusion are unable or unwilling through lack of capability/access/knowledge or capacity/prioritisation of "new" over "old" to address the initial question then... [blah, blah, blah] 

 

 

Well, that's my point! there is no initial question! There is only one thing: the dishonest will of harming both the game and the developer by means of repeating endlessly the same questions knowing in advance that the current planning of the developer, which has been clearly announced, doesn't include such matters.

 

The current planning of the developer is:

 

STEP 1 (before release of version 6.0):

 

1) TrueSKY (static weather though)

2) VR

3) 4K cockpits

4) 4k external models

5) 4k terrain tiles for the maps

6) Improvement of the 3D effect in the maps

7) 10x view distance increase

STEP 2 (at realease of version 6.0):

8 ) All sounds of engines refitted

9) TrueSKY (this time with dynamic weather)

10) Release of the new add-on (a new map, new flyable aircraft, new vehicles, etc.)

 

If the TFS teams prove they are able to fulfill the above mentioned planning, then... not Enigma89 but I me myself, at release of TF6.0 will ask about the user interface, same about other  problematic features in the game.

 

Oh, by the way, I'm very happy you guys call me the gatekeeper, same as I'm very happy to call you the Flight Sims Court, which is exactly what you are.

 

 

[Bell]

Certain creature should learn to respect others first instead of saying 'that(May I suggest you commit suicide) was humorous'.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Bell

[343KKT_Kintaro]

"is really unbearable" this is nothing but an exageration, an exageration that harms this game and its developers. Personally, I'm tired of such things. You may not like my [though friendly] humour, Bell... and I don't like your exagerations. My humour hurted you? I'm awfully sorry, and I apology, but you don't seem to understand the situation, a situation that goes far beyond your views on the QMB.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

BTW the "Print Screen" button still works.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Just now, Dagwoodyt said:

BTW the "Print Screen" button still works.

 

 

Please Dagwoodyt, go to your private messages and respond to the message I sent you on the 26th of August.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

Maya Angelou: When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Fascinating, Dagwoodyt, what an admirable piece of wisdom... now please go to the private area of the forum so that we can calmly discuss the accusations you publicly made against me on the 26th of August, 2022.

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

No one has option to "share" a PM that you did not send ?

[No.54_Reddog]

The irony in that post is just delicious. Whataboutism in the dictionary should just link straight there.

 

As for your claim the OP didn't pose a question,  Any plans to overhaul the UI? if this isn't a question then I don't know what is!

 

At that point reading anything further from you is utterly pointless, doubly so after the "suggestion" you chose to make, irrespective of whether you later got a free pass from the admin for redacting it. As someone who has been affected by suicide I am disgusted it would ever feature in a professed adult argument.

 

 

 

 

 

[BOO]

3 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

For the rest of your post, Reddog, you are not responding to my point. BOO is not responding to my point. Dagwoodyt is not responding to my point. Nobody is responding to my point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kintaro - please indulge me - What is the point you refer to? I say this respectfully as I thought Id responded but it appears that  I have not. If you make it clearly I will better understand. 

 

S!

Edited September 25, 2022 by BOO

[343KKT_Kintaro]

BOO, I'm sorry if you don't like the second, but here are my two main points:

 

1) On one hand, the developers have announced their planning for the next months, maybe another whole year, who knows... and on the other hand we have a few experienced players here who know that... yet they still ask questions about things that are not in the planning, thus... things that are not about to be treated before a long time.

 

2) Because such few experienced players are experienced players... players aware of the situation, because they are aware of the current planning... normally they should wait until 6.0 is released and, after that, ask for a better QMB... a better GUI... etc. Do they wait? No they don't. Do they open new threads so that, thread after thread, they can revel in the illustration of the imperfections of this game? Yes they do that. Are they hypocrites? Well, BOO, I'll let you make up your own mind.

 

 

[FTC_Riksen]

I'm just scared for the future of BoX or any other sim really if @343KKT_Kintaro decides to start lurking there as well. Despite being a "GBer", I do, however, hope CoD makes a good comeback as I truly think CoD has better features in terms of battle simulation than any other sim currently available but man, tone your gatekeeping down a notch or you will scare the rest of us away.

[BOO]

42 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

BOO, I'm sorry if you don't like the second, but here are my two main points:

 

1) On one hand, the developers have announced their planning for the next months, maybe another whole year, who knows... and on the other hand we have a few experienced players here who know that... yet they still ask questions about things that are not in the planning, thus... things that are not about to be treated before a long time.

 

2) Because such few experienced players are experienced players... players aware of the situation, because they are aware of the current planning... normally they should wait until 6.0 is released and, after that, ask for a better QMB... a better GUI... etc. Do they wait? No they don't. Do they open new threads so that, thread after thread, they can revel in the illustration of the imperfections of this game? Yes they do that. Are they hypocrites? Well, BOO, I'll let you make up your own mind.

 

 

OK - I've  answered those points

 

Many times. 

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

Discussion of UI issues shouldn't overshadow announcement of recipient' option to "share" PM's if deemed advantageous. This would be of particular concern if the recipient has requested the PM exchange.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[Mysticpuma]

On 9/25/2022 at 3:36 AM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Done, "reference" deleted BOO...

 

Now, Boo, please tell me, how long this will take before somebody else, a long experienced player as usual, opens, again, a new thread on the user interface? or on the quick mission builder? or on the Bf 108 dual controls? or on... ? Well, I think you got it... didn't you?

 

They probably open a new thread because it's still an unaddressed issue? 

It's been said in this thread, how many times have threads been opened regarding the loadout not being able to be changed in Single Player. 

 

Think of it from the point of a new player, not an old experienced forum browser. They don't know it can't be changed other than editing the ini files or going into Multiplayer to.save a load out for Single Player. That is a workaround, not a fix. The (rough) stat is there are 4x more Single Player than Multiplayer pilots, yet the focus often shows Multiplayer wears the crown when it comes to development. 

So, where the UI has issues and the old hands have knowledge of workarounds, it isn't a good impression for new players having an option to change a load out and the when they click save... it doesn't.

So in that case either fix it or remove it if it's too much of a problem! 

 

The UI has issues as pointed out, noseart option has never worked yet it's still there? Just tidy it up, remove what can't be fixed (Radio Commands are also part of the broken UU).... just fix it or remove it. 

 

Simple? 

 

Finally and it's an anecdotal anology but adding new features on top of a broken foundation is probably not the best way of moving forward. Imagine adding a third storey to the top of a building on which the foundations were known to have issues.... better to fix the foundations than risk a collapse of you new floor added on top? 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Mysticpuma

[343KKT_Kintaro]

4 hours ago, FTC_Riksen said:

if @343KKT_Kintaro decides to start lurking there as well

 

 

I sometimes contribute to the Great Battles forum. I recently did it here, for example. Or here. Not an excessively lurking attitude I hope.

 

 

4 hours ago, FTC_Riksen said:

but man, tone your gatekeeping down a notch or you will scare the rest of us away.

 

 

Somebody called me "the gatekeeper". Good. In a different thread a different person called me "the self-appointed attorney of TFS". Funny people indeed. People who "lurk"  here, not in the Great Battles forum, here in this IL2CoD forum Riksen, but in their own way. Before taking sides, Riksen, and for the sake of objectivity, please learn who they are and what they do. I thank you in advance.

 

Thank you Puma, I read your response. You will find in my previous post the essence of what I had to say. Yours truly: K.

 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

The GUI could use an upgrade/tidying up/whatever. True, very much so. I do not disagree with that. But it is not an impossible one to use, if you take your time and even glance at the manuals or tips. And after you have gone through making a profile for your beloved Spitfire(for example), the rest should be relatively easy. Unless you forget everything you just did. Cumbersome, yes. Impossible, no.

[Dagwoodyt]

In what sense does this constitute praise?

2 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

The GUI could use an upgrade/tidying up/whatever. True, very much so. I do not disagree with that. But it is not an impossible one to use, if you take your time and even glance at the manuals or tips. And after you have gone through making a profile for your beloved Spitfire(for example), the rest should be relatively easy. Unless you forget everything you just did. Cumbersome, yes. Impossible, no.

in essence, a restatement of the problem

Edited September 27, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[vipe155]

Cliffs of Dover has been (or at least had the potential to be, which is being realized) a good sim, but it's always been a bad game.  Overall, it continues to be a bad game, which has and currently prevents it from gaining widespread appeal.  All the "sim" stuff is pretty good, but there is nothing else.  The GUI is terrible.  Not only is it a rough draft design, but it doesn't all even work.  It's ugly with no style.  The AI doesn't all work, radio commands are missing/don't all work.  CLOD has never had a worthwhile campaign, a good dynamic mission generator, or really anything worthwhile on the single player side.

 

It sucks, because there is a lot I like about it.  I played hours and hours on the ATAG servers years ago.  I've tried playing missions, or the attempt at putting a dynamic campaign into the sim.  I actually still slightly prefer flying in Cliffs overall.  But the fact is all of the things that would have made this a good game, the crucial stuff needed to make it fun/usable/popular (stuff that wasn't finished by the original devs) should have been one of the first priorities.  But, a new/working GUI isn't exciting, nor will bring in more $$$.  Neither will fixed radio commands or AI.  That's why there are new planes, a new theatre, new effects, whatever...but the "game" still isn't any good.

[Peachy9]

On 9/22/2022 at 5:48 PM, Enigma89 said:

Title says it all, it seems to be a common barrier from keeping people away from the game.

I bet you didn't expect this post to go where it went!!

[Dagwoodyt]

5 hours ago, vipe155 said:

Cliffs of Dover has been (or at least had the potential to be, which is being realized) a good sim, but it's always been a bad game.  Overall, it continues to be a bad game, which has and currently prevents it from gaining widespread appeal.  All the "sim" stuff is pretty good, but there is nothing else.  The GUI is terrible.  Not only is it a rough draft design, but it doesn't all even work.  It's ugly with no style.  The AI doesn't all work, radio commands are missing/don't all work.  CLOD has never had a worthwhile campaign, a good dynamic mission generator, or really anything worthwhile on the single player side.

 

It sucks, because there is a lot I like about it.  I played hours and hours on the ATAG servers years ago.  I've tried playing missions, or the attempt at putting a dynamic campaign into the sim.  I actually still slightly prefer flying in Cliffs overall.  But the fact is all of the things that would have made this a good game, the crucial stuff needed to make it fun/usable/popular (stuff that wasn't finished by the original devs) should have been one of the first priorities.  But, a new/working GUI isn't exciting, nor will bring in more $$$.  Neither will fixed radio commands or AI.  That's why there are new planes, a new theatre, new effects, whatever...but the "game" still isn't any good.

Even when the Visual Update is released it will not leap frog Blitz over the competition, but only make it fairly visually similar to other flight sim offerings. All the GUI problems will remain. As far as TF 6.0 is concerned there will be free discussion until it is officially announced. Once announced there will be the same "don't ask when it will be finished" posts that perpetuate unpleasant interactions. The main benefit of the Visual Update for me is that, once available, it will provide a "return on investment" for DW-T and an off-ramp.

Edited September 28, 2022 by Dagwoodyt

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

16 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Even when the Visual Update is released it will not leap frog Blitz over the competition, but only make it fairly visually similar to other flight sim offerings. All the GUI problems will remain. As far as TF 6.0 is concerned there will be free discussion until it is officially announced. Once announced there will be the same "don't ask when it will be finished" posts that perpetuate unpleasant interactions. The main benefit of the Visual Update for me is that, once available, it will provide a "return on investment" for DW-T and an off-ramp.

Yup, it will only bring CloD to the level of current sims in those two regards (visuals and VR). We are playing catch up here.

And like TF5 it should give CloD a boost and, hopefully, it will be followed up by a swift release of TF6 or at least within a „short“ amount of time that most players will be able to overcome that period by playing, so player numbers don’t dwindle down to current levels.
And if that is not possible, we can hope that the hype train keeps going (leaves the station?) until that point has been reached.

[Mysticpuma]

Time is a concept not recognised here. 

I still remember TF6 was going to be announced in May. Still no idea where it will take us.... but maybe the UI will get an overhaul. TFS have said we will be getting a Quick Mission Builder which is being beta tested currently, so part of the UI is going to get a tweak ?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

27 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

I still remember TF6 was going to be announced in May

 

 

In May... 2021, Mysticpuma. Indeed, it was three weeks before mid May 2021 when Buzzsaw said "but at this point it looks like mid May will be the announcement". If he said "it looks like"... this is because apparently TFS has no power to decide the date of the announcement, only 1C has it (I insist: apparently). At any rate something is going wrong with this announcement that has yet to be made... for it has been a year and a half since Buzzsaw had said that the announcement was imminent. Because the date of the announcement depends on 1C, my assumption is that the 1C people changed their minds and decided to postpone the date. Maybe they wanted the "Normandy" module is released first, who knows... but here we are, "Normandy" is out, and the add-on's title and theatre of operations are not yet announced. But I may be wrong, maybe the delay in the announcement has nothing to do with the "Normandy" module. Let's wait and see, what else can we do?

 

 

27 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

but maybe the UI will get an overhaul. TFS have said we will be getting a Quick Mission Builder which is being beta tested currently, so part of the UI is going to get a tweak ?

 

 

I don't think the UI will be improved and/or simplified at release of version 6.0... nor I think we'll have a QMB. These things will wait I'm afraid.

 

[OBT-Eazy]

Clouds in VR, of course ?

Edited September 29, 2022 by OBT-Eazy

[Mysticpuma]

4 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I don't think the UI will be improved and/or simplified at release of version 6.0... nor I think we'll have a QMB. These things will wait I'm afraid.

 

This is one time I am hopeful Buzzsaw pulls through with his plans. 

 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

"I.T.", Eazy? "information technology"? (otherwise your humour is welcome, indeed we should simply play the game as it is... and let the developers take their time... this is why I said that all of these threads being permanently opened again, again and again... are nothing but fruitless talk).

 

Thank you for your response Puma. For now the situation doesn't give me the impression that a new UI and/or a new QMB will be ready for TF6.0. We'll see...

 

[Dagwoodyt]

There is no necessary relationship between the yet to be announced TF 6.0 and a GUI overhaul. Without a successful Visual Update TF 6.0 is just another shiny object. If the Team is too stressed to commit to even monthly updates on Visual Update progress that speaks for itself.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

There is no necessary relationship between the yet to be announced TF 6.0 and a GUI overhaul.

 

 

Indeedly indeed Dagwoodit as per Buzzsaw's statement, above quoted by Mysticpuma. "We hope it will be ready for TF 6.0", this is what it reads, no more no less: "we hope".

 

 

2 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

If the Team is too stressed to commit to even monthly updates on Visual Update progress that speaks for itself.

 

 

This is, again, an expectation resulting from the way the developers of "Great Battles" proceed. It has been apparent for years now that the type of relationship between 1C and Team Fusion Simulations is radically different and that this type of relationship is not necessarily the one that is desired by TFS. The guys at TFS are doing a lot of patience with individuals like you and I take my hat off to them.

 

 

[No.54_Reddog]

2 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

This is, again, an expectation resulting from the way the developers of "Great Battles" proceed. It has been apparent for years now that the type of relationship between 1C and Team Fusion Simulations is radically different and that this type of relationship is not necessarily the one that is desired by TFS. The guys at TFS are doing a lot of patience with individuals like you and I take my hat off to them.

 

 

 

Can you explain what you mean here? I don't believe anyone has suggested that TFS should emulate GB in any way, shape or form either directly or indirectly. No one but you linked the two together. Regular updates and transparency between customer and developer is not something unique to GB, nor flight sims, nor games in general. Seems like yet another strawman to deflect from the point at hand.

 

Also, what did you mean by "individuals like you"? Another veiled insult perhaps?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

"If the Team is too stressed to commit to even monthly updates on Visual Update progress that speaks for itself"

 

Nothing speaks for itself, this is nothing but another frontal attack on TFS.

 

Now stop it, both of you Reddog and Dagwoodyt, stop playing your little game.

 

[No.54_Reddog]

I didn't write that but nice whataboutism. Answer my questions please.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I don't have any questions to answer, officer. People who are not happy with TFS nor with their game should move on and leave them alone... or proceed like Mysticpuma for whom I feel much respect as his criticism is always politely made... not insidiously as others make theirs...

[BOO]

40 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I don't have any questions to answer, officer. People who are not happy with TFS nor with their game should move on and leave them alone... or proceed like Mysticpuma for whom I feel much respect as his criticism is always politely made... not insidiously as others make theirs...

I think people will do as they please within the rules of the forum Kintaro. 

 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

12 minutes ago, BOO said:

I think people will do as they please within the rules of the forum Kintaro. 

 

 

The same principle applies to to you and I, BOO. I do say there are people here who aim to harm one company and their simulator. If this is fair enough to you because of their smart non-infringement of the rules of the forum... fair enough then, up to you BOO. Now Boo, as per such principle you seem to defend... let me "do as I please within the rules of the forum". Kindest regards.

 

 

[BOO]

Just now, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

The same principle applies to to you and I, BOO. I do say there are people here who aim to harm one company and their simulator. If this is fair enough to you because of their smart non-infringement of the rules of the forum... fair enough then, up to you BOO. Now Boo, as per such principle you seem to defend... let me "do as I please within the rules of the forum". Kindest regards.

 

 

 

Did I say you couldnt? 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 minute ago, BOO said:

 

Did I say you couldnt? 

 

 

No you didn't  

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

The premise would seem to be that latching oneself onto a developer and flailing about against all comers somehow benefits the developer. ?

Edited September 29, 2022 by Dagwoodyt