MCU do give the impression of working radars (in some missions).

[Avimimus]

Anyone else noticed this? Constant updates on the map?

 

All that they need to do is model limits on the radars... and they could do night fighting in a lot of cases (e.g. in some cases having the radar operator onboard your plane provide the pilot with updates). It isn't perfect of course, especially in its current implementation - but I can definitely see a Ju-88C6 campaign making use of this!!

 

Very cool surprise!

 

*Edit* Apparently this is being done just using MCUs. Still cool though.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Avimimus

[migmadmarine]

How do you mean work? Just the animation, or?

[Riderocket]

Wow. This flight simulator never disappoints. Good work devs and thankyou ?

[Avimimus]

9 minutes ago, migmadmarine said:

How do you mean work? Just the animation, or?

 

I was flying an intercept and a message popped up telling me to check my map... there was a marker with heading, speed and altitude tracks given by a ground radar.

 

[Bars-]

3 минуты назад, Avimimus сказал:

 

I was flying an intercept and a message popped up telling me to check my map... there was a marker with heading, speed and altitude tracks given by a ground radar.

 

Is it realistic? Those WW2 radar services could realy detect target's heading and speed?

[firdimigdi]

9 minutes ago, Bars- said:

Is it realistic? Those WW2 radar services could realy detect target's heading and speed?

 

 Heading, sure; speed would be an estimate but close enough.

[Dragon1-1]

RADAR originally meant RAdio Detection And Ranging. They could find distance from the target to the radar, and they knew a bearing to it from where the antenna was pointed at the moment they detected it. This would be enough to plot its position. By plotting two positions and noting down the times at which they were plotted, speed and heading could be easily determined.

[R3animate]

Yep, I've noticed it on the Normandy JU88-C6 bomber intercept missions as well as the AQM V-1 quick missions. It's a step in the right direction. Gives some of the missions a lot more flavour. 

 

I'd love to see text/chat (radio would be way too complicated) suggesting a new heading to intercept too but I realize that's a big request and not just a quick thing for them to do. 

[Avimimus]

26 minutes ago, R3animate said:

I'd love to see text/chat (radio would be way too complicated) suggesting a new heading to intercept too but I realize that's a big request and not just a quick thing for them to do. 

 

Yes, although it'd also be pretty cool to have a navigator on some planes that would tell you how off course you are etc.

 

So much potential. I'd probably put more effort into improvements to AI visual spotting if I were the devs though (e.g. calling out information to other crew members, having realistic gaps in vision/surveillance and losing targets sometimes)... but still - so much potential!

[Juri_JS]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Anyone else noticed this? Constant updates on the map?

 

All that they need to do is model limits on the radars... and they could do night fighting in a lot of cases (e.g. in some cases having the radar operator onboard your plane provide the pilot with updates). It isn't perfect of course, especially in its current implementation - but I can definitely see a Ju-88C6 campaign making use of this!!

 

Very cool surprise!

I think I have to disappoint you. That's not done by the new radar. These are just triggered events done with MCUs.

[migmadmarine]

Yea, that was kinda what I was going to get at Juri, but on the other hand, if that system is doing well enough to provide those data points, do you really need ground radar to actually be simulated in process? 

 

I must have overlooked that the call outs had the bearing/range/altitude on them, now if they can have those voiced and/or pop up with the data in the messages without opening the map, then we could well have enough for ground vector intercepts day or night. Cool!

[357th_KW]

Is there some new MCU in the mission editor to use this?

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, Juri_JS said:

I think I have to disappoint you. That's not done by the new radar. These are just triggered events done with MCUs.

 

Eh, close enough. Hopefully they'll expand the MCUs and the system once they discover we like it. Failing that - be an enabler and let me have my delusions will ya

[ITAF_Airone1989]

I didn't check the mission file, but I guess it's a simple check zone trigger that deactivates the old icon and activates the new one.

It works perfectly as long as you play single player.

 

(And was possible to do the even before)

Edited September 8, 2022 by ITAF_Airone1989

[Jaegermeister]

3 hours ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

I didn't check the mission file, but I guess it's a simple check zone trigger that deactivates the old icon and activates the new one.

It works perfectly as long as you play single player.

 

(And was possible to do the even before)

That's correct. It's just a clever use of the existing MCUs and map icons with checkzones to trigger them when the AC passes through the preset track points.

[TONebdon]

Yes! just got BON and it worked over england and went to destroy chain home tower and it vanished from map sector. was this intentional as chain home is long range etc?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

19 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

I think I have to disappoint you. That's not done by the new radar. These are just triggered events done with MCUs.

True. But you *can* create sort-of-realistic dynamic radar in IL2.

 

In fact, I'm working on a night fighter campaign, where bombers are spawned at random locations, and the player might be anywhere within a certain patrol area.

[Juri_JS]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

True. But you *can* create sort-of-realistic dynamic radar in IL2.

 

In fact, I'm working on a night fighter campaign, where bombers are spawned at random locations, and the player might be anywhere within a certain patrol area.

Yes, reports from ground based radar is for the most part doable with triggers. What I wasn't able to achieve, is to give the player a bearing to enemy bombers instead of just giving the sector of the target.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

14 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Yes, reports from ground based radar is for the most part doable with triggers. What I wasn't able to achieve, is to give the player a bearing to enemy bombers instead of just giving the sector of the target.

Well, actually it is. Let me see if I can finish up at least the first half of my campaign and then release it in two phases.

[Avimimus]

4 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

Yes, reports from ground based radar is for the most part doable with triggers. What I wasn't able to achieve, is to give the player a bearing to enemy bombers instead of just giving the sector of the target.

 

A solution to this would be to have the co-pilot/navigator actually do their job ? 

[Juri_JS]

15 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

A solution to this would be to have the co-pilot/navigator actually do their job ? 

You can get bearing and range reports from ground spotters when you give the player a cover command for the spotter unit. The problem is that the reports aren't detailed enough and come too infrequent to allow interceptions during the night.

[BCI-Nazgul]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:07 AM, Bars- said:

Is it realistic? Those WW2 radar services could realy detect target's heading and speed?

They wouldn't be much use if they couldn't.   And yes, they could even in WW II.

[salimliu]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:07 AM, Bars- said:

Is it realistic? Those WW2 radar services could realy detect target's heading and speed?

The following quote is from the book  ”the grand show” from Pierre Closterman

 

 

[Ala13_UnopaUno_VR]

Night missions are possible if there is a full moon and few clouds

[PatrickAWlson]

So I'm guessing radar doesn't really add anything new?  

 

Guess I'll just have to create is as a spotter.

[Ala13_UnopaUno_VR]

the COMBAT BOX SERVER used Radar very well

[PatrickAWlson]

14 minutes ago, Ala13_UnopaUno_VR said:

the COMBAT BOX SERVER used Radar very well

 

How?  I see the radars as artillery vehicles.  I don't really see anything special about them that would somehow make them work as radars.

 

[357th_KW]

@ACG_Cass and @Sketch (and possibly some others) have come up with some very clever scripting in the mission editor using check zones that create a "radar" sweep on the map without overloading the server.  You should come check it out on Combat Box.  It's active on a few of the new Normandy missions on the server and comes in a few different flavors.  I think "Prelude to Normandy", "Flames in the Sky" and "Spring Cleaning" all have a radar setup.

[JG1_Vonrd]

I was just reading a book about the nightfighter Beufighters and was surprised to learn that the Chain Home Low antenna was turned by bicycle! A buzzer from the command shack told them to move the direction of sweep.

 

In keeping with its rapid introduction, CHL was a relatively simple manually-directed system that required the operator to hunt for targets by swinging the antenna back and forth looking for returns. The antenna was originally powered by WAAFs mounted on wheel-less bicycles whose chains were connected to a gear system.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_Home_Low

[Sketch]

The radars are just vehicles. They don't do anything special, just as you said @PatrickAWlson. The radar dish on the vehicle entity works just like the spotlights and will track an enemy plane. (And rotate like a spotlight)

 

As KW mentioned, we're using clever tricks with check zones and activating and deactivating icon mcus (and firing subtitle mcus) to give the suspension of disbelief to players that there's an active radar.

 

 

You're welcome to my code, and I'm sure Cass would be happy to share his code too.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Sketch

[343KKT_Kintaro]

5 minutes ago, Sketch said:

give the suspension of disbelief to players

 

 

Hi Sketch! You just defined PC flight sims!

 

[IckyATLAS]

Kind of Turing tests. If you can fool enough people believing it is true for a certain time (longer than short) then it is true.

[jollyjack]

On 10/2/2022 at 10:07 PM, Sketch said:

You're welcome to my code, and I'm sure Cass would be happy to share his code too.

 

Any examples for how to setup radar in a mission?  In an attempt to avoid re-inverting the wheel i am rather curious LoL.

[Guster]

On 9/10/2022 at 1:22 PM, Juri_JS said:

You can get bearing and range reports from ground spotters when you give the player a cover command for the spotter unit. The problem is that the reports aren't detailed enough and come too infrequent to allow interceptions during the night.

 

Would this work for an AI plane and the spotter unit in MP as well? Basically as a sort of faux ACI/AWACS system with one plane receiving the reports but everyone can hear them.

[Juri_JS]

12 minutes ago, Guster said:

 

Would this work for an AI plane and the spotter unit in MP as well? Basically as a sort of faux ACI/AWACS system with one plane receiving the reports but everyone can hear them.

I don't know how it will work in MP.

[Guster]

On 10/5/2022 at 12:49 PM, Juri_JS said:

I don't know how it will work in MP.

 

Tried last night, and it does actually work. The plane and the ground unit will hook up on radio, and the plane will receive reports for everyone to hear; weather, plane type spotted, relative position and so on, just like in a Quick Mission. You've just got to give the plane a new command immediately or it will take the 'cover' order quite literally. Or I suppose you could have a transport plane hovering over the ground unit somewhere out of harms way.

 

Now I just have to figure out the details, like how often do you want the messages, what exactly should trigger them, and how should the AI planes respond.

 

Seems there's a lot one can do to suit one's needs. If I come up with something even remotely clever, I'll post it in the Mission Making area.