New game update!

[TIGRE88]

7 hours ago, Han said:

==================

So basically, I can't confirm such drammatic issues like you have posted. But anyway, we can take some kind of specific case which have minimal controversy and seems like should be the definitelly kill but is not - and investigate it.

 

For now - I've shoot all of your tanks in your mission and in case when there are no rickochete - tank took severe or fatal damage. But it can't be seen from outside in many cases. Like in real life.

 

Yes, and as I also said, to do a serious test we have to test over a longer period of time, to see the global feeling of the players, to see if there is really something wrong with the ricochets.
Maybe something is missing or not ? 
I always imagine the ricochets with molten metal, smoke and a "wizzz" sound but maybe I've seen too many movies  

I was surprised to see straight lines going into the sky at high speed in the game   

[moustache]

45 minutes ago, TIGRE88 said:

8 hours ago, Han said:

==================

So basically, I can't confirm such drammatic issues like you have posted. But anyway, we can take some kind of specific case which have minimal controversy and seems like should be the definitelly kill but is not - and investigate it.

 

For now - I've shoot all of your tanks in your mission and in case when there are no rickochete - tank took severe or fatal damage. But it can't be seen from outside in many cases. Like in real life.

 

Yes, and as I also said, to do a serious test we have to test over a longer period of time, to see the global feeling of the players, to see if there is really something wrong with the ricochets.
Maybe something is missing or not ? 
I always imagine the ricochets with molten metal, smoke and a "wizzz" sound but maybe I've seen too many movies  

I was surprised to see straight lines going into the sky at high speed in the game   

I would even go further by saying that all the tests should be done over a long period: do a long solo session (with a ladle, 45min...) and you will see several bugs appear: loss of control of the turret as if it locks, but without locking in game, initiative taken by the AI without player orders, even contrary to player orders, ineffective camera refocusing, you have to try several times , strange camera position when changing position, the driver seems to be a pure specialist... light bug, divine light appearing when you open a hatch... etc, etc...

[TIGRE88]

14 hours ago, Regingrave said:

Thank you for your report, there is some bug with recognition of the player controlled tanks as destroyed. It's not happening every time, just when the engine is left intact, we will fix that later.

 

in the end the idea that the tanks linked to the lead tank stop rolling when the lead tank is hit, with the engine destroyed but still with the ability to fire is finally a good idea, it can give a more natural random effect , so sometimes the enemy tanks can stop to fire or continue driving, leaving he lead tank behind, depending on whether its engine or its track or something else is destroyed!

and then anyway it is possible to program a temporary stop with the mission editor. 

 the only thing is that in the test that I had provided "walking dead" I had configured the player's tank to "not attackable" so we could not know if the ennemy tank hit was still able to shoot us or not,  but as Mustache had tested, if we completely destroy the ennemy leader tank or break its track, the other tanks start rolling again, so everything is fine, in my opinion there is nothing to change on this side.  

 

 

Moustache,

there are a lot of little problems here and there, like this texture problem on the panther, which appears randomly, the two panthers have the same skin and yet one of them has a problem. but all these problems are still minimal, compared to more serious problems.  let's hope that the big main problems are solved, that we can play in acceptable conditions soon, I don't ask for more for the moment.

 

skin bug.zip

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by TIGRE88

[TIGRE88]

appreciable results on this "shot test3" mission  
this time with a TIGER whose gun is supposed to be inferior in perforation capacity compared to the panther and targets located at 1060 meters positioned in different angles.
it took me between 1 and 2 shots to destroy each target  

 

shot test3.zip

 

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by TIGRE88

[TIGRE88]

a special test for Moustache, with a panther located at 80 meters from a sherman who is positioned perfectly straight. 
In a way Moustache is right, it is very surprising that shooting from so close on a sherman placed straight can make the shots ricochet from time to time and the sherman that continues to shoot on the target.  
this test is to be rerun several times because there is only one sherman 

 

shot test4.zip

 

 

it happens more rarely that the shells of the Ferdinand also ricochet at 80 meters as on this photo! 
the same test of shot test4 but with a Ferdinand instead of the Panther. 
the Ferdinand has an overpowering gun, superior to the Tiger and the Panther, but the shot ricocheted, the sherman continued to shoot, it was necessary to shoot another shell to destroy it 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by TIGRE88

[Regingrave-]

6 часов назад, LachenKrieg сказал:

Thanks for your input. That is a good question, because I don't think you should be able to do that. I am really looking forward to seeing TC updated, and really appreciate the input from the devs in this thread.

I wasted some time, but din't find any way to damage Ferdinand's crew with .50 cal. So now I expect you to provide some ways to reproduce the bug you claim to exist, before we could do anything about it.

[SCG_judgedeath3]

6 hours ago, TIGRE88 said:

1 : there is the problem of the cannon which puts itself in blocked position: "cannon pointed upwards", very visible on the panzer4. and more horizontal on the tiger for example, and this after a few seconds if the cannon is not used, normally it should not be put in travel position without the order of the player.   

Im curious: is this happening in single player mode, or in multiplayer mode or both? I and rest of scg only play multiplayer on finnish virtual pilots and our own events on our own server for 3-6 hours in one go when we play and the gun dont lock up. 
 

[moustache]

9 minutes ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

Im curious: is this happening in single player mode, or in multiplayer mode or both? I and rest of scg only play multiplayer on finnish virtual pilots and our own events on our own server for 3-6 hours in one go when we play and the gun dont lock up. 

in solo and in multi... sometimes it's not even a "real" lock, more a total loss of control... often, when it does that, the small painted circle is slightly shifted to one side by relative to the center of the screen... you must then either lock/unlock the barrel manually, or go back and forth between the different positions...

[SCG_judgedeath3]

Ah alright, hope we can get it solved now and find out why it happens to some, and to others not.

Edited August 4, 2022 by SCG_judgedeath3

[TIGRE88]

17 minutes ago, SCG_judgedeath3 said:

Im curious: is this happening in single player mode, or in multiplayer mode or both? I and rest of scg only play multiplayer on finnish virtual pilots and our own events on our own server for 3-6 hours in one go when we play and the gun dont lock up. 
 

 

I have just redone a test, visibly this problem of the cannon that returns to the locked position has been solved!

it is in fact just locked at the very beginning of the game!  
I thought that this problem always existed, according to the message of  Ickylevel !  
but then it must have the 2nd problem " the horrible turret bug that i hate  " .....with the gun pointing to an empty area! otherwise I don't see what other bug could concern the turret ...   

 

[moustache]

there's one from time to time, it's not really strictly speaking a lock, but when passing over the gunner square during a game, the gun recenters itself (gameplay with the mouse) and you lose control, as if the turret will lock. at this time, the white circle is slightly offset from the center of the screen.

[Regingrave-]

5 часов назад, TIGRE88 сказал:

there are a lot of little problems here and there, like this texture problem on the panther, which appears randomly, the two panthers have the same skin and yet one of them has a problem.

That's because you've set the wrong skins for the tanks in the mission. These are not skins, rather than additional textures of the skin, and should not be applied to player's tank, because GUI don't recognize them, thus applying incorrectly:

Скрытый текст

 

[TIGRE88]

57 minutes ago, Regingrave said:

That's because you've set the wrong skins for the tanks in the mission. These are not skins, rather than additional textures of the skin, and should not be applied to player's tank, because GUI don't recognize them, thus applying incorrectly:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

in the past I had already selected texture #1 but each time it resets to #1#1 automatically!  
I don't know what to do anymore.... 
I only have these choices in textures! there must be a bug in the folder containing the official textures in my hard drive ?  i dont know ... 

[Regingrave-]

3 минуты назад, TIGRE88 сказал:

in the past I had already selected texture #1 but each time it resets to #1#1 automatically!  
I don't know what to do anymore.... 
I only have these choices in textures! there must be a bug in the folder containing the official textures in my hard drive ?  i dont know ... 

The ability to select wrong textures as skins will be removed from the editor, when we'll have time for that.

[TIGRE88]

5 minutes ago, Regingrave said:

The ability to select wrong textures as skins will be removed from the editor, when we'll have time for that.

 

thanks ! 

yes in the editor if i select win #1  it reset to win#1#1  all the time , and i found 1 panther with the right skin and the other panther with a strange skin .. and the two are set automatically by the mission editor in win#1#1 . 

 it is the same problem with the summer skin of the panther, panzer4 and Ferdinand

the Tiger is not affected 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by TIGRE88

[moustache]

3 hours ago, TIGRE88 said:

4 hours ago, Regingrave said:

The ability to select wrong textures as skins will be removed from the editor, when we'll have time for that.

 

could it have something to do with this bug? (I specify that I have never touched/modified the skins, not the skills...)

 

 

I have skins that appeared with the name "1#1" in the associated folder

 

 

in terms of ballistics: on a shot between 700 and 1000m, I pierce the sherman more easily with a PzIV on the lower part of the glacis than on the upper one, whereas if I remember correctly, it is at least as angled ( see slightly more) and thicker, right?

 

[TIGRE88]

Moustache, I don't know about the textures? do you think it's possible that a bug was created because of the custom skins downloaded? I don't know... 

 

for the armor it makes me think suddenly, I had seen an explanatory video, moreover very logical on the relation between a shell and the armor touched, and in fact according to the place touched it can perforate more or less easily, but the more the place touched is inclined or likely to be deformed and the less the shell has the capacity to perforate it,

if the armor deforms it makes a spring effect, that absorbs a part of the energy, because the armor moves back and deforms.   
in my opinion the center of the glacis is the place that is likely to deform the most on the Sherman and thus to absorb more the Energy of the shell.

the bottom is more rigid and could thus less well absorb. 

but of course there are limits, if the armor is too thin and the shell is too powerful it will pierce whatever happens... 

 

long time ago,  when I was making medieval armors I had a test, with a steel plate of 1mm only, I put the plate on a wooden workbench, and gave a blow of pick, the plate was pierced, but if you put the same plate on a soft support, like a human body or a mattress etc., and that you give a blow of pick, you won't be able to make a hole, there will be maybe a light deformation 

 

 

 

 

 

Moustache, je sais pas du tout pour les textures ?  tu pense qu'il se peut qu'un bug se soit créé à cause des skins personnalisés téléchargés  ?  je sais pas... 

 

pour le blindage ça me fait penser subitement, j'avais vu une vidéo explicative , d'ailleurs très logique sur la relation entre un obus et le blindage touché ,  et en fait selon l'endroit touché ça peut perforer plus ou moins facilement,  mais plus l'endroit touché est incliné ou susceptible de se déformer et moins l'obus à la capacité à le perforer , si le blindage se déforme ça fait un effet ressort, ça absorbe une partie de l'énergie , car le blindage recule et se déforme .   
à mon avis le centre du glacis est l'endroit qui est susceptible de se déformer le plus sur le Sherman et donc d'absorber plus l'Energie de l'obus .  le bas est plus rigide et pourrait donc moins bien absorber.. 

mais après bien sur il y a des limites, si le blindage est trop fin et l'obus trop puissant ça perfore quoi qu'il arrive... 

 

à l'époque quand je fabriquais des armures médiévales j'avais fait un test , avec une plaque d'acier de 1mm seulement, j'avais posé la plaque sur un établi en bois , et donné un coup de pioche, la plaque s'était percée, mais si tu pose la même plaque sur un support mou, comme un corps humain ou un matelas etc, et que tu donne un coup de pioche, tu ne pourra pas faire de trou , il y aura peu être une légère déformation seulement 

Edited August 4, 2022 by TIGRE88

[Spinnetti]

Lower hull of Sherman is cast and upper might be welded or cast, but welded is stronger than the castings. Also, the angles are different on the lower hull, so I would expect the upper hull to resist penetration better than the lower hull on the Sherman.

[TIGRE88]

4 minutes ago, Spinnetti said:

Lower hull of Sherman is cast and upper might be welded or cast, but welded is stronger than the castings. Also, the angles are different on the lower hull, so I would expect the upper hull to resist penetration better than the lower hull on the Sherman.

 

spinnetti have you seen how your topic has become polluted by our conversations?  but it's for a good cause, soon you will be able to play new campaigns ...? 

[Spinnetti]

5 hours ago, TIGRE88 said:

 

spinnetti have you seen how your topic has become polluted by our conversations?  but it's for a good cause, soon you will be able to play new campaigns ...? 

Yes, it has nothing to do with the original topic, but as long as people are talking about the game, the game still has some life left in it yes?

 

I had to rebuild my machine and lost your original missions - I am patiently waiting to get them back - even with the turret bug!

[LachenKrieg]

13 hours ago, TIGRE88 said:

 

I have just redone a test, visibly this problem of the cannon that returns to the locked position has been solved!

it is in fact just locked at the very beginning of the game!  
I thought that this problem always existed, according to the message of  Ickylevel !  
but then it must have the 2nd problem " the horrible turret bug that i hate  " .....with the gun pointing to an empty area! otherwise I don't see what other bug could concern the turret ...   

 

But did you notice the tank to your left has its gun locked? I am guessing that is an Ai tank in your platoon.

[TIGRE88]

4 hours ago, Spinnetti said:

Yes, it has nothing to do with the original topic, but as long as people are talking about the game, the game still has some life left in it yes?

 

I had to rebuild my machine and lost your original missions - I am patiently waiting to get them back - even with the turret bug!

 

don't worry you will get the PACK again... and much more but I don't say more.... I've already said too much ^^ 
I don't know if you can feel it in the air but it smells like bug squashing... 
 

3 hours ago, LachenKrieg said:

But did you notice the tank to your left has its gun locked? I am guessing that is an Ai tank in your platoon.

 

yes it's an AI tank ! 

Edited August 5, 2022 by TIGRE88

[ShampooX]

On 8/3/2022 at 7:13 AM, Saedriss said:

The upward trajectories on a non penetration hit should be expected in certain angles on a M4A2 front plate. Here's a video of a simulation of the situation shown in the above screenshot :
 

This video, while contested by some comments, shows that a projectile after failing to penetrate the armor could be deviated upward while still retaining a 400m/s velocity. Which seems congruent with the trajectories and description of @TIGRE88

The fact that the shot should or shouldn't penetrate is up for debate, but assuming it doesn't the game seems to behave as expected.

Interesting Video.  Some of it is even true.  The thing this evaluation leaves out is the type of barrel and the range to target.  So we know that on the lowest velocity 75 on the German side in this game, the Pz IV-G, fielded a KwK L40/48 cannon.  And if the Sherman has an effective armor thickness (including slope) of 91mm, then the 75mm APCBC fired from the L40/48 will only bounce off a Sherman frontally from ranges greater than about  1,800m (grid below).  Nice video, but it fails to take into account these two main factors.  In this game, Sherman's are still bouncing  frontal shots from well under 500m.  And nearly all of us use APHE anyway, and I didn't see the video above account for the HE charge at the very end - which almost always pushed through the last little bit of armor.  And finally, there is only one historical picture I am aware of showing a frontal Sherman deflection from something along the lines and size of a 75 (it was probably a 50) - and I can't even find it anymore.  And that's probably because there are none - those pictures don't exist - every knocked out Sherman pic I have seen features nice clean holes in the frontal armor.  And there are tens if not hundreds of them.

 

Click on the pic below to open it up better.  Cheers.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by ShampooActual

[TIGRE88]

ShampooActual

on your pictures, the holes on the sherman are not all round, that indicates that the glacis deflected the shell but with the end that pierced. 

the thickness of the armour is insufficient to make ricochet!   

and when you think that in the game test, a panther located in front at 80 meters of the sherman can have its shells which ricochet at least once on time, before destroying it at the second shooting.  
in fact I think that it ricochets a little too often in the game, especially at short distance: 80 meters.
for the ferdinand it also ricocheted at 80 meters, but less often than for the panther 

Edited August 5, 2022 by TIGRE88

[LachenKrieg]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:48 AM, Regingrave said:

I wasted some time, but din't find any way to damage Ferdinand's crew with .50 cal. So now I expect you to provide some ways to reproduce the bug you claim to exist, before we could do anything about it.

@Regingrave, thanks again for responding.

 

If I thought playing computer games was a complete waste of time, would you stop making them?

 

You might consider trying to fix bugs as a waste of time, but I would like to think that most of the users experiencing them wouldn't.

 

But as I indicated, I don't have any recent examples for you because I haven't played in some time, but if you look at the image posted in the quoted post below you can see what happened in real life when a shot from a Panther tank hit a Sherman frontally, and compare that to some of the other images taken of the Sherman in-game. It seems that there is a bug with the Sherman's armor on all sides.

 

8 hours ago, ShampooActual said:

Interesting Video.  Some of it is even true.  The thing this evaluation leaves out is the type of barrel and the range to target.  So we know that on the lowest velocity 75 on the German side in this game, the Pz IV-G, fielded a KwK L40/48 cannon.  And if the Sherman has an effective armor thickness (including slope) of 91mm, then the 75mm APCBC fired from the L40/48 will only bounce off a Sherman frontally from ranges greater than about  1,800m (grid below).  Nice video, but it fails to take into account these two main factors.  In this game, Sherman's are still bouncing  frontal shots from well under 500m.  And nearly all of us use APHE anyway, and I didn't see the video above account for the HE charge at the very end - which almost always pushed through the last little bit of armor.  And finally, there is only one historical picture I am aware of showing a frontal Sherman deflection from something along the lines and size of a 75 (it was probably a 50) - and I can't even find it anymore.  And that's probably because there are none - those pictures don't exist - every knocked out Sherman pic I have seen features nice clean holes in the frontal armor.  And there are tens if not hundreds of them.

 

Click on the pic below to open it up better.  Cheers.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by LachenKrieg

[TIGRE88]

in a mission played only 3 times I noticed that a Sherman could ricochet between 4 and 5 times the Tiger shells at less than 200 meters, before  being destroyed and not being able to shoot anymore......the Sherman being positioned in front.  

while the Tiger positioned at an angle i was destroyed in 8 shots.

 

That means that if you face only 3 shermans at the same time you have chances to be destroyed as if the Tiger was a small cat.

or else the shermans are M26Pershing... and still... I wonder if the Pershing is not likely to have a lot of pain at less than 200 meters if it takes a 88 shell. 
no seriously, something is wrong. I'm sorry to tell you that.  

 

you will realize after playing some missions that something is wrong... there is not even enough ammunition to finish a game. 

on this picture you can see 4 ricochets and the 5th shot destroyed, but once I had to shoot 6 times ....... 5 is already much

 

if a sherman can do that then the future Churchill tank is going to be a real terror, it will be invincible, the german heavy tanks are going to get shot like nothing. i really invite you to review this ballistic management, thanks 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by TIGRE88

[ShampooX]

All roads come back to the Sherman being OP.  LOL

[TIGRE88]

27 minutes ago, ShampooActual said:

All roads come back to the Sherman being OP.  LOL

 

what mean OP ??  is it over powered ?   if it is the case, yes I find that the Sherman has always been overpowered since the origin, a long time ago, 2 years ago the Sherman could sometimes take 5 shots of 88 at 30 meters to be destroyed! I had never seen that!

and then I find that its 75 gun is very powerful against the front of the Tiger, when I see videos of American veterans talk about their fights, even at close range they give the impression of throwing paper pellets against the armor of the Tiger. . strange though... even a real story of a veteran who had fired with the gun stuck against the turret of the Tiger... he had fired several times and it had done nothing... after I do not invent anything it is the American veterans themselves who say it... 

 

I had found period data which showed the difference in quality of the steel of the Tigers compared to the steels of the allied tanks, the hardness was not the same, the mask of the gun of the Tiger had a higher hardness and even the sides of the tank, in fact they said that 80 mm German corresponded to 90 mm of steel of the allied tanks. because it's not made the same way and it doesn't have the same metallurgical properties. except at the end of the war when German steel became of poor quality, it is well known

the steel of the Tiger2 which cracked for example

Edited August 5, 2022 by TIGRE88

[CountZero]

oh look tuger players complaining allied tanks are to OP LOL

cant wait for churchill to come to game...

and no allied player left to play when all their tanks get nerfed because only players left playing TC are axis...

if primary thing to fix in TC is sherman then game is doomed

[TIGRE88]

there are people hoping for a War Thunder2 game, where allied tanks are heavily favored.

but I don't think the goal of Tank crew is to make an arcade game, or else people who hope for a balanced game should ask for the manufacture of an M26 Pershing.

or else organize multiplayer games where there are only panzers 4 and 3 against shermans.

but why would you want to reduce German heavy tanks at all costs? like that the sherman will have the impression of having a bigger one?  

 

 

 

[Voidhunger]

On 8/3/2022 at 11:25 PM, Han said:

I hope you don't think that every killed tank should explode like in arcade games?

 

You mean German tanks? it looks like arcade

[ShampooX]

7 hours ago, CountZero said:

oh look tuger players complaining allied tanks are to OP LOL

cant wait for churchill to come to game...

and no allied player left to play when all their tanks get nerfed because only players left playing TC are axis...

if primary thing to fix in TC is sherman then game is doomed

LOL said a dude who doesn't play the game - ever.    You'd be more credible if you had some Stats, County Baby.  Any Stats

[TIGRE88]

 

Off topic, but I tested the infantry, and suddenly I made this screenshot, it can give ideas for scenarios having soldiers running...:)  

but....

don't ask these little guys to make you a sandwich they can't do it 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by TIGRE88

[No_Face]

Just a reminder:
Free tanks can OS any opposing tank from 500m away if the perfect conditions are met.
Only the tiger and the Ferdinand can't be OS from the front (it's maybe possible but I haven't succeeded yet)

I would like to hear from the developers on this.

[LachenKrieg]

To try and glean more information from the images we have seen in terms of bouncing shells off angled armor, compare the image I cropped from one of TIGRE88's posts to one of the images Shampoo linked. In the image of a Sherman supposedly knocked out near Bari Italy, we can guesstimate the approximate angle the 2 shots were made from by looking closely at the penetration marks.

 

This Sherman received 2 penetrating hits from a gun, or guns angled approximately 15 to 25 degrees off its right flank. Looking at the surrounding wide expanse of the open terrain, my guess would be that this is one of the Sherman's knocked out in Tunisia near the Medenine-Mareth line where there were a number of 1200+ m engagements that took place.

 

The penetration marks look to be about 75 mm, and there were a number of 75 mm PzIV's in the area at that time.

 

Compare that to the cropped image of TIGRE88. The Sherman on the far left should be easy to destroy with a side shot. The Sherman in the center is angled much more straight on to the Panther's gun and would be a sure kill on its front. The Sherman on the far right is angled more like the one on the far left, and it is harder to say whether the Panther's shot would bounce. But when you compare the tank on the far right with the Tunisia Sherman, which was probably a long range shot, it seems that the in-game result is not likely.

 

 

[Spinnetti]

There do seem to be an awful lot of ricochet still. a Sherman shouldn't be shrugging off any 75mm AP hit <500m much less the 88.

[MajorMagee]

I've been using the tank range missions for a year or so now, and this last update did increase the number of ricochets slightly, but not anything like what I would call unreasonable. My battlefield experience was that they do happen, and sometimes in unpredictable ways. Today on the range I had a case of a double bounce, where it went off to the right a short distance, struck something else, and then bounced back to the left, where it exploded as it hit the ground. Strange, but I've seen many strange and unexpected things in my life when dealing with live ordnance.

[TIGRE88]

MajorMagee , 

there are strange things in life but not to the point of ricocheting 4 or 5 88mm shells fired from the front at 200 meters anyway? 
otherwise it's not a Sherman anymore but a Pershing in disguise. 

but you will see by doing more tests that the game sometimes triggers unwanted ricochets grouped during the same game and on several ennemy tanks.
sometimes it takes between 1 and 3 shots of 88 to destroy a Sherman and sometimes between 5 and 6 ... it becomes a bit exaggerated 

 

it's like allowing the Tiger to take 4 or 5 shots of 152 mm and continue the fight; no I'm sorry it's not correct.  

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by TIGRE88

[1./JG42flesch]

Advance a Secure today: two shots and hit at Sherman AI on Front at 1000m- nothing!

Sherman shot back- Hit on Gun Mantlet, Tiger killt!!!!!!!!

Thats Pure Fantasy

[LachenKrieg]

14 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

I've been using the tank range missions for a year or so now, and this last update did increase the number of ricochets slightly, but not anything like what I would call unreasonable. My battlefield experience was that they do happen, and sometimes in unpredictable ways. Today on the range I had a case of a double bounce, where it went off to the right a short distance, struck something else, and then bounced back to the left, where it exploded as it hit the ground. Strange, but I've seen many strange and unexpected things in my life when dealing with live ordnance.

 

10 hours ago, TIGRE88 said:

MajorMagee , 

there are strange things in life but not to the point of ricocheting 4 or 5 88mm shells fired from the front at 200 meters anyway? 
otherwise it's not a Sherman anymore but a Pershing in disguise. 

but you will see by doing more tests that the game sometimes triggers unwanted ricochets grouped during the same game and on several ennemy tanks.
sometimes it takes between 1 and 3 shots of 88 to destroy a Sherman and sometimes between 5 and 6 ... it becomes a bit exaggerated 

 

it's like allowing the Tiger to take 4 or 5 shots of 152 mm and continue the fight; no I'm sorry it's not correct.  

 

@MajorMagee, I am not doubting your battlefield experience, and agree completely that ricochets do happen. But there is nothing strange about a shell bouncing off a hardened object when the circumstances support it.

 

Strange would be when you hit something and the shell bounces when it shouldn't.

 

A SIM is not supposed to model "STRANGE", it is supposed to model real world objects.

 

Look at the Sherman image in the post I'm quoting. You see he took 5 shots. 4 bounced and 1 penetrated. Looking at the angle of all 5 shots, they are essentially the same. And in this case we know that all 5 shots were made with the same gun. There is very little difference between the 1 that penetrated, and the 4 that didn't. That is what I would call strange. 

 

If he was using the PzIII L/M, you could maybe argue that he finally got a penetration because of weakening. But the Ferdinand, Panther, Tiger, PzIV G could all slice through the front of a Sherman from great distances in real life. And the image of the Tunisia Sherman above gives a hint at the type of angle it can be done from. 

 

I think the Devs here have enough to go by in terms of identifying the problem that desperately needs their attention.

 

Lets hope it does and they do.