Until we get the announcement on TFS V6, where do you think the next module will be?

[Mysticpuma]

Just for speculation and a bit of fun while we wait for 1C to announce the next module, where do you think it will be? 

 

My guess is Malta. 

 

I guess that based on the aircraft we already have, how easy they would be to incorporate and the size of the map would be very manageable for a small team? 

 

So where do you think the next module will take us? 

[Irishratticus72]

15 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

Just for speculation and a bit of fun while we wait for 1C to announce the next module, where do you think it will be? 

 

My guess is Malta. 

 

I guess that based on the aircraft we already have, how easy they would be to incorporate and the size of the map would be very manageable for a small team? 

 

So where do you think the next module will take us? 

Well, wherever we're going, we don't need roads.

[Knightmare]

Malta makes the most sense and I'd love a Siege of Malta scenario to play in. It's probably a longshot, but I'd love to have an aircraft carrier for the Allies.

 

My wish would be for Norway. It's a scenario rarely visited and has some incredible historical battles that aren't too well known. The landscape is also incredibly dramatic and interesting. 

[JonRedcorn]

Would love to see italy. Il2 1946 literally has everything so it'd be nice to see some of those places revisited in a more modern sim.

[No.54_Reddog]

Malta would make the most sense, we have lost of the aircraft for the LW and RAF side, just could do with adding some more Italian types like SM79,  Macchi 200 and maybe a caproni bomber. A large portion of the map would be sea though, and Malta itself would need a lot of bespoke 3d models, Valetta, Grand harbour, Mosta Dome, to name but a few. Using generic buildings I feel would be less than desirable.

 

A usable aircraft carrier would also be necessary IMO for a Malta map.

 

On the other hand I don't see how that meshes with the FW190 and Typhoon we are supposedly getting. Neither saw any action over Malta as far as I have read and can recall.

 

To be honest I'm less interested in TF6 than I am in getting the existing work released. VR is potentially a game changer in terms of player numbers and server populations, the weather is what I'm waiting on more though, the existing weather is utterly shit for a persistent campaign like ours was, and the DCS weather variations have shown me what different conditions can bring to MP experience.

 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

I would guess an expansion towards the air war over Europe with the FW190A coming. The MTO has only one way to go, towards Malta, Sicily and Italy. But would need carriers and new planes like SM79 etc. to be feasible. 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

24 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

I would guess an expansion towards the air war over Europe with the FW190A coming.

 

 

I'd LOVE, not only guess, such an expansion.

 

 

24 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

The MTO has only one way to go, towards Malta, Sicily and Italy.

 

 

And the Torch landings... and the Middle East (Palestine, French Lebanon, etc.)... and the Ploiesti bombings... and a few other places somewhere on the Mediterranean shores as well.

 

 

24 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

But would need carriers and new planes like SM79 etc. to be feasible. 

 

 

I remember TFS already stated that aircraft carriers and carrier operations are under development... but won't be ready before TF7.0 or TF8.0.

 

Otherwise, concerning that SM.79 Sparviero... I'm sure TFS is more than enough competent for brilliantly modelling such a bird.

 

 

[Enceladus828]

I'm guessing Malta as it's an area where a lot of aircraft in Blitz also saw action, and aircraft in Desert Wings also saw action, as well as aircraft not included in Desert Wings like the SM.79 and Macchi C.200. The hints Buzzsaw gave us was that the main map for TF 6.0 was an area not covered before and would be of interest to players. Well, Malta fits both of those. He said they would continue into late 1942 in the Desert so that does hint at El Alamein, though I don't believe that would be the main map as the timeframe would be quite short. They could add more ships to the game like the Nelson class battleship, another RN light cruiser or heavy cruiser and destroyer, and Italian Battleships, cruisers and destroyers. Flying over Sicily would be great (though not the focus of the installment). They could also throw in a small map of Taranto.

 

On 7/12/2022 at 2:56 PM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I remember TFS already stated that aircraft carriers and carrier operations are under development... but won't be ready before TF7.0 or TF8.0.

I too recall them saying that carriers are under development, but when did they say that they wouldn't be ready until TF 7.0 or 8.0?

 

But in regards to carriers and a Malta installment, it's suicide to not include the Illustrious class, it's not the end of the world if the HMS Eagle isn't added until the next installment, and it's okay if the USS Wasp isn't included.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

11 hours ago, Enceladus said:

He said they would continue into late 1942 in the Desert so that does hint at El Alamein, though I don't believe that would be the main map as the timeframe would be quite short.

 

 

You're welcome my friend. If whether or not El Alamein will be the next map, this cannot be inferred out of this statement of Buzzsaw. At this point of the response he was giving to interviewer Rod White, Buzzsaw was saying the the two existing maps were about to be pushed forwards into the game's timeline (with new added elements, such as the aircraft types that correspond to those months and seasons of 1942: "this game goes up until June of 1942 in the desert and August of 1942 for the Channel map"). More exactly, Buzzsaw said "We are probably looking at continuing the existing planeset and moving it forwards into another environment, another time period further on. So, basically, this game goes up until June of 1942 in the desert [my comment: Bussaw refers to the Tobruk map] and August of 1942 for the Channel map, so we are looking at moving it forward from there on the Channel map, definitely, into the rest of the Summer of 42, the Fall of 42 and the Winter of 42, so for the Channel map... and then another map which as I said I'm not at the liberty to specify at this point". When Buzzsaw says "and then another map", he means he had already informed of the current work on the two existing maps and that he proceeded then, for the YouTube auditors, to mention that a new map is on the works. Thus, all mentions to "the desert map" previous to "and then another map" do refer to the Tobruk map, simply. This is at least how I do read Buzzsaw statements.

 

So maybe El Alamein is the next theatre of operations, but that latter, whether or not it is El Alamein, is not necesarily set in a desert environment. Not if we base our reasoning on the developers' statements.

 

But all of this is too much speculation. When version 6 is announced is announced... end of story.

 

 

11 hours ago, Enceladus said:

I too recall them saying that carriers are under development, but when did they say that they wouldn't be ready until TF 7.0 or 8.0?

 

 

Buzzsaw said carriers won't be in 6.0... not that carriers were absolutely planned to happen in a subsequent version. You can add extra additional numbers over 8.0, my point remains the same. Indeed, 7.0 or 8.0 were only given as an example.

 

 

11 hours ago, Enceladus said:

But in regards to carriers and a Malta installment, it's suicide to not include the Illustrious class, it's not the end of the world if the HMS Eagle isn't added until the next installment, and it's okay if the USS Wasp isn't included.

 

 

You may be right, who knows. We all hope TFS will insure their module is consistent and playable.

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

9 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Buzzsaw was saying the the two existing maps were about to be pushed forwards into the game's timeline (with new added elements, such as the aircraft types that correspond to those months and seasons of 1942: "this game goes up until June of 1942 in the desert and August of 1942 for the Channel map").

 

 

No, I said the existing Channel map aircraft/etc. covers up to August 1941.  The FW-190A was introduced and came into fairly regular use in September 1941... and obviously we don't have it in the game.  Desert goes to June 1942... after that point the focus moved East to the area of El Alamein.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

No, I said the existing Channel map aircraft/etc. covers up to August 1941

 

 

Buzzsaw, with respect, I was talking about the 2020 Rod White interview with you and Pattle. This statement of yours is audible as of 52'52'' in the YouTube video: "this game goes up until June of 1942 in the desert and August of 1942 for the Channel map".

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

16 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Buzzsaw, with respect, I was talking about the 2020 Rod White interview with you and Pattle. This statement of yours is audible as of 52'52'' in the YouTube video: "this game goes up until June of 1942 in the desert and August of 1942 for the Channel map".

 

 

Then I mis-spoke in that interview.

 

Again:  In TOBRUK the Channel is covered up to August of 1941... not 1942.

[Livai]

Then we need something what covers 1942 to go back onto the offensive in occupied Europe, and resume the "circus", "ramrod" and "rodeo" raids.

Ju 86R,Spitfire Mk IX, Fw 190, maybe?

[Guest deleted@7076]

-Deleted-

Edited September 12, 2022 by Varrattu

[4thFG_Cap_D_Gentile]

Early France, Hawk-75 please

[BOO]

On one hand early France could have the usual brickbats of "too niche" and "too slow" etc etc. On the other the engine has the potential to provide enough graphical refinement that combined with truesky and speedtree 9(?) to make its a treat to fly in whilst the game has potentially all the backroom required to knock GB and DCS WW2 into a cocked hat when it comes to a dynamic SP or MP campaign. Those alone could be selling points against the graphics of GB and emptyness of DCS. MP also becomes an issue as the Rudlebums gurn over the manual prop pitch in the early types (especially the 109s).

 

All moot though as it clear with the aircraft teased that TFS is looking at 41 and 42.

 

Malta is a very specific thing and one that cant be replicated with generic block buildings as Reddog says. I havnt seen anything from TFS to date that would fill me with any confidence that they have the resources to realistically acheive this to a modern standard.

 

Like @Varrattu I think moving to 41/42 and operation Cerberus and Jubilee timeframes is most likely in my view. No complex aircraft, limited number of totally new models, existing map etc.  

[No.54_Reddog]

8 minutes ago, BOO said:

On one hand early France could have the usual brickbats of "too niche" and "too slow" etc etc. On the other the engine has the potential to provide enough graphical refinement that combined with truesky and speedtree 9(?) to make its a treat to fly in whilst the game has potentially all the backroom required to knock GB and DCS WW2 into a cocked hat when it comes to a dynamic SP or MP campaign. Those alone could be selling points against the graphics of GB and emptyness of DCS. MP also becomes an issue as the Rudlebums gurn over the manual prop pitch in the early types (especially the 109s).

 

All moot though as it clear with the aircraft teased that TFS is looking at 41 and 42.

 

Malta is a very specific thing and one that cant be replicated with generic block buildings as Reddog says. I havnt seen anything from TFS to date that would fill me with any confidence that they have the resources to realistically acheive this to a modern standard.

 

Like @Varrattu I think moving to 41/42 and operation Cerberus and Jubilee timeframes is most likely in my view. No complex aircraft, limited number of totally new models, existing map etc.  

 

I can't imagine we will get a large number of brand new aircraft models, we know how long it took to do the Macchi and martlet, and how long the typhoon has been modelled but not shown in game. If they're doing a 190 which they've said they are, is imagine any other "new" aircraft will likely be further variants of the existing ones, either with new engines and/or minor armament differences like the 110 variants - essentially the same 3d model with a slightly different bit of engine code/parameters.

[BOO]

Just now, No.54_Reddog said:

 

I can't imagine we will get a large number of brand new aircraft models, we know how long it took to do the Macchi and martlet, and how long the typhoon has been modelled but not shown in game. If they're doing a 190 which they've said they are, is imagine any other "new" aircraft will likely be further variants of the existing ones, either with new engines and/or minor armament differences like the 110 variants - essentially the same 3d model with a slightly different bit of engine code/parameters.

So 41/42 channel fits that better than Malta in that regard? 

 

CloD really needs a sugar daddy. Sadly it appears it got a midnight deal at some crossroads...

[No.54_Reddog]

1 hour ago, BOO said:

So 41/42 channel fits that better than Malta in that regard? 

 

CloD really needs a sugar daddy. Sadly it appears it got a midnight deal at some crossroads...

Yeah, I think Malta is just my pipe dream.

 

As for the sugar daddy, I'd buy it if I could, even tried to in the past. Sadly I think we are well past that point now.

[FTC_Karaya]

Not a fan of Malta personally. It's too much like the BoB all over again but on a smaller scale. If we stay in the MTO, I'd rather like to see Tunisia and Sicily modelled.

 

As for 6.0, given that we've been promised the FW190A-1/2/3, then the Channel 1942 is the only option (Dieppe, Cerberus). Maybe with a smaller MTO bonus map thrown in as well.

[Avimimus]

On 8/7/2022 at 6:25 PM, Varrattu said:

The Dieppe Raid (August 1942) e.g. Also known as Operation Jubilee.

 

~V~

 

 

I've usually thought about Dieppe in terms of the main BoS series.

 

We already have the Spit Vb, Hurricane IIb/IIc, the Bf-109F, and the Fw-190A2/A3 (already planned/announced) - as well as the Blenheims (smoke laying), Walrus, and Defiants (air-sea rescue).

 

One would need:

- The Fw-190A4/U18 (used to attack ships)

- Mustang I (low altitude recon)

- Possibly Spit IXc or Typhoon (early interceptor version). Note, only two squadron's of each were involved.

- Do-217E (AI only apparently)

- Boston III (A-20 variant)

 

So it actually looks pretty doable - especially if the two twin-engined bombers were AI only. They'd really only need to add two AI bombers, the Fw-190A4 and the Mustang I... (and possibly the Spit IX and Typhoon).

 

 

2 hours ago, Karaya said:

Not a fan of Malta personally. It's too much like the BoB all over again but on a smaller scale. If we stay in the MTO, I'd rather like to see Tunisia and Sicily modelled.

 

Well, Malta would fit with the BoB-like theme and is pretty famous. It'd also allow fleshing out the MTO aircraft list - an Italian Trimotor (e.g. SM.79) and an M.C.200 are really needed from a historical standpoint. It'd also be good for seaplane ops or even carrier ops (although both would require additional coding).

 

However staying in North Africa would be good if it allowed further developing the Battle of France plane set. The Potez 630 and Potez 63.11 were operated by the Free French airforce and the Vichy French in North Africa (with some of the last being wiped out in Operation Torch). The same goes for the LeO-451 and Hawk 75. I think possibly also the Ms.406?

 

So there are plenty of aircraft that could be used on both the Channel Map and North Africa (or Syria).

Edited August 25, 2022 by Avimimus

[343KKT_Kintaro]

4 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

 

I can't imagine we will get a large number of brand new aircraft models

 

 

After so many years, my assumption is that a new module in the "IL-2 Sturmovik" series (whether it is a "Great Battles" game or a "Dover" game) usually does bring approximately 10 new types and/or variants. For example, among the new flyables, the add-on "Desert Wings - Tobruk" brought the Bf 108 Taifun (a new type) and the Messerschmitt Bf 109F (a new variant), among others.

 

 

[Enceladus828]

3 hours ago, Karaya said:

Not a fan of Malta personally. It's too much like the BoB all over again but on a smaller scale. If we stay in the MTO, I'd rather like to see Tunisia and Sicily modelled.

 

As for 6.0, given that we've been promised the FW190A-1/2/3, then the Channel 1942 is the only option (Dieppe, Cerberus). Maybe with a smaller MTO bonus map thrown in as well.

Buzzsaw stated that the Tunisian Campaign will not be included in TF 6.0 -- https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/64487-wishlist-for-il2-cliffs-of-dover-blitz-desert-wings-tobruk/page/3/#comment-1065777 -- and since the Fw-190A-4/5 were the only Fw-190s at Tunisia then that further goes to show Tunisia isn't happening in the next installment.

What we know is that the main map will be something that hasn't been done (properly) before in a flight sim and the installment will continue into the rest of 1942 from June.

Well, Malta is something new and would probably take the game up to the time period of Rommel's defeat at El Alamein (early November 1942).

 

Doing Malta would also include Sicily in it as well so if you really wanted to could do an Operation Husky scenario with 1942 planes. But an installment with Operation Husky would be in the next installment after.

 

[BOO]

1 hour ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

After so many years, my assumption is that a new module in the "IL-2 Sturmovik" series (whether it is a "Great Battles" game or a "Dover" game) usually does bring approximately 10 new types and/or variants. For example, among the new flyables, the add-on "Desert Wings - Tobruk" brought the Bf 108 Taifun (a new type) and the Messerschmitt Bf 109F (a new variant), among others.

 

 

Its tough to tell. Tobruk brought a good number of new types but equally used exisiting AI models for a good few of them (Wellington, Beau, Taufin, CR42). Im not sure how many "new" aircraft were totally new but clearly some were. And with that learning time I presume modellers within TFS are able to work a little faster and smarter than they did initially as experience grows. But, and not wishing to bring up contoversy in this thread, TFS do find it hard to work within timescales and for whatever reason, are prone to elongating them substantially. Given this, a more modest goal of say a solid 41/42 channel map may be a more desiarble project than anything else at this point. 

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, BOO said:

But, and not wishing to bring up contoversy in this thread, TFS do find it hard to work within timescales and for whatever reason, are prone to elongating them substantially. Given this, a more modest goal of say a solid 41/42 channel map may be a more desiarble project than anything else at this point. 

 

Hmm... well I think the simple answer is that a lot of them have other jobs... which is part of why it is possible to keep developing a somewhat troubled engine...

 

...it just occurred to me for the first time: A lot of aircraft were delayed (or cancelled) by difficult engine development. Cliffs of Dover also had a lot of trouble getting its engine running (although the Team Fusion efforts have brought it up to a fairly high degree of reliability, and it looks like the overall maximum engine power will be significantly enhanced with the upcoming updates)...

Edited August 26, 2022 by Avimimus

[FTC_Karaya]

2 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Buzzsaw stated that the Tunisian Campaign will not be included in TF 6.0

 

Yes, as I said in the 2nd paragraph, we're going to see Dieppe, not the MTO for 6.0.

What I wrote about Malta, Sicily and Tunisia was in regard to expansions past 6.0

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

4 hours ago, Karaya said:

 

Yes, as I said in the 2nd paragraph, we're going to see Dieppe, not the MTO for 6.0.

What I wrote about Malta, Sicily and Tunisia was in regard to expansions past 6.0

So based on all the speculation (including mine) I’d dare to guess:

 

TF6 = Channel Map up until late 1942 with the new a/c mentioned (Typhoon, early Spit IX, Fw 190A-2/3; maybe Mustang and a bomber of some sort; plus the usual variants to compliment). We wouldn’t get a new map,  maybe an expansion of the desert map to the east for El Alamein.

 

TF7 = Malta and Sicily. And while we are at it, throw in Tunisia and Algeria.

 

I hope it doesn‘t take too long…

 

 

[BOO]

6 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

Hmm... well I think the simple answer is that a lot of them have other jobs... which is part of why it is possible to keep developing a somewhat troubled engine...

 

TL:DR CloD needs people who can debug and fix the engine more than it needs people who can use 3D max or Blender at this time. (my uninformed and arbitary opinion). 

 

@AvimimusThis I accept. In addition if you are not offering salaries, replacing team members who leave for various resons os also going to be more difficult. I was simply saying, that given that, smaller, less ambitious but solid increments would seem a better plan that larger projects.

 

Ambition is a good thing but it needs tempering by writing cheques you are confident you can cash. 

 

Whether you think TFS is doing a good job or not, having some many plates currently spinning (VR, 4K, Speedtree 9, Truesky) and the problems of getting them right has impacted on timescales. As this goes on, the less relevent in peoples minds CloD and Sand Clod become. We are at a stage now where even the most controversial threads attact contributions from only the same handful of people (I accept there is always a silent majority but the steam graphs and limiyed servers show a general indiference to the title ) 

 

Add to that a very limited communication strategy for whatever reason. "We hope soon" and "we aim for" have become the new "two weeks be sure" in manys minds. Meanwhile GB with its small but dedicated full time team moves on in leaps and bounds within a clear development plan. DCS....well...DCS moves spasmodically. 

 

Only my opinion but CloD has a number of USPs in terms of its looks and engine complexitiy. These make the game relevent today and present those serious about SP and MP with options and abilities that GB and DCS cannot, and will likely never match (nor in the case of GB needs too). Producing ever more new aircraft and maps, in my mind, isnt necessary to make the product different or desirable. Its basic offer, if fully implemented and developed,would be enough. A Clod channel map that works well and allows users resonably easy access to that backroom would, to me, be far more preferable that 10 new aircraft with the same "its Clod" problems.  

 

In the time I played 4.312 (pre Blitz), some 3500 hours, those I introduced to the game never said "oh Im bored of spitfires" or "its too hard".  They invariably complained about the issues they had getting the game to work, setting controls, little grapahical issues, bombsight glitches, SP and mission making etc.

 

Of course if you only have 1 coder and 15 artists that becomes a problem too and I know TFS cannot magic up staff as required but  (rightly or wrongly) I  have gotten the impression over time that help offered isnt always accepted or stifled to the point its withdrawn. Whether the fault lies at the door of TFS or elsewhere is not my place to comment.

 

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

6 hours ago, Karaya said:

 

Yes, as I said in the 2nd paragraph, we're going to see Dieppe, not the MTO for 6.0.

What I wrote about Malta, Sicily and Tunisia was in regard to expansions past 6.0

 

 

The 1941 operations on and over the Channel became playable in this game in 2020 thank to "Desert Wings - Tobruk"... because that latter brought the required types for that and because the Channel was immediately available at release of the add-on. In my opinion the Dieppe landings will become possible in this game thank to the future new types in the upcoming add-on, but the add-on itself won't deal directly with the Dieppe landings themselves. The upcoming add-on still might be located somewhere over the shores of the Mediterranean. Why not... in Lebanon/Palestine ? South Africa ? Who knows... well, TFS does know.

 

 

[No.54_Reddog]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:15 PM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

After so many years, my assumption is that a new module in the "IL-2 Sturmovik" series (whether it is a "Great Battles" game or a "Dover" game) usually does bring approximately 10 new types and/or variants. For example, among the new flyables, the add-on "Desert Wings - Tobruk" brought the Bf 108 Taifun (a new type) and the Messerschmitt Bf 109F (a new variant), among others.

 

 

 

Thank you once again for another of your completely irrelevant quotes and replies to my point. There were two new aircraft in Tobruk FOUR new aircraft in Tobruk, the martlet and the macchi AND the P-40s and D-520. All other aircraft were either modifications of existing flyables, or modifications to AI non flyable aircraft to make them flyable. 

 

On the map discussion, I'm sure I've seen a comment from TFS that TF6 would include a new map. There is not necessarily a relationship between the postulated new aircraft (Typhoon, 190) and the map itself. It's also entirely possible that the rumour I heard about them redoing the channel map from scratch could be the "new" map. (I truly hope not)

 

To Boos point about fixing up the existing problems, unfortunately that is the crux of the matter, just as it is with DCS. Both CLOD and DCS seem to regard new content as preferable to polished existing bugs and it is not difficult to see why. Fixes don't bring in money. It would be nice to think that a balance could be found but frankly I don't hold out much hope, many of the bugs raised in 2015 (and still remaining) listed on the bug tracker as "New" for example...

 

That we have been having this conversation, and the others, on the official forum for the game, for several weeks, with no meaningful interaction from TFS should make it very clear how TFS views it's customers.

Edited August 26, 2022 by No.54_Reddog
Edited to correct my error

[4thFG_Cap_D_Gentile]

Vichy had 75's too ?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 hour ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Thank you once again for another of your completely irrelevant quotes and replies to my point. There were two new aircraft in Tobruk, the martlet and the macchi. All other aircraft were either modifications of existing flyables, or modifications to AI non flyable aircraft to make them flyable.

 

 

Please reread my response. I'll be more precise: in both "Great Battles" and "Dover", a new module this seems to imply that at least ten new flyables and one new map do constitute the bulk of the  payable content. A new "flyable" is either a type or a variant.

 

Demonstration as follows...

 

In 2013-2014, the premium edition of Stalingrad brought the following flyables:

 

LaGG-3 Series 29
Bf 109 F-4
Yak-1 Series 69
Bf 109 G-2
IL-2 AM-38 (model 1942)
Ju 87 D-3
Pe-2 Series 87
He 111 H-6
La-5 Series
Fw-190 A-3

 

Then in 2016, the premium edition of Moscow brought the following NEW flyables:

 

I-16 Type 24 = new type
Bf 109 E-7 = new variant (the 109 was previously available under the F-4 and G-2 variants)
MiG-3 Series 24 = new type
Bf 109 F-2 = new variant (the 109 was previously available under the F-4 and G-2 variants)
IL-2 AM-38 (model 1941) = new variant (the IL-2 was previously available under the model 1942 variant)
Bf 110 E-2 = new type
Pe-2 Series 35 = new variant (the IL-2 was previously available under the series 87 variant)
Ju 88 A-4 = new type
P-40E-1 = new type
MC.202 Series VIII = new type

 

In 2017, Blitz brought the following flyables:

 

Bf 109 E-1
Bf 109 E-1/B
Bf 109 E-3
Bf 109 E-3/B
Bf 109 E-4
Bf 109 E-4 Late
Bf 109 E-4/B
Bf 109 E-4/B
Bf 109 E-4/N
Bf 109 E-4/N Late
Bf 110 C-2
Bf 110 C-4
Bf 110 C-4
Bf 110 C-4/N
Bf 110 C-4/NJG
Bf 110 C-4/B
Bf 110 C-6
Bf 110 C-7
Ju 87 B-2
Do 17 Z-1
Do 17 Z-2
Do 215 B-1
He 111 H-2
He 111 P-2
Ju 88 A-1
Fiat G.50
Fiat BR.20 M
Spitfire Mk I
Spitfire Mk I (100 octanes)
Spitfire Mk Ia
Spitfire Mk Ia (100 octanes)
Spitfire Mk IIa
Hurricane Mk I (DH 5-20)
Hurricane Mk I (DH 5-20 100 octanes)
Hurricane Mk I (Rotol)
Hurricane Mk I (Rotol 100 octanes)
Hurricane Mk I-FB
Hurricane Mk I-NF
Blenheim Mk IV
Blenheim Mk IV Late
Blenheim Mk IV F
Blenheim Mk IV F Late
Blenheim Mk IV-NF
Blenheim Mk IV-NF Late
Beaufighter Mk IF
Beaufighter Mk I-NF
Tiger Moth
Tiger Moth 1940
Tiger Moth A-1
Tiger Moth A-2

 

And then, in 2020, Tobruk brought the following NEW flyables:

 

Bf 108 B2 Taifun = new type
Bf 109 E-7 = new variant
Bf 109 E-7/N = new variant
Bf 109 E-7/Z = new variant
Bf 109 F-1 = new variant
Bf 109 F-2 = new variant
Bf 109 F-2 Late = new variant
Bf 109 F-4 = new variant
Bf 109 F-4 Derated = new variant
Bf 109 F-4/Z = new variant
Bf 110 C-4/NJG = new variant
Bf 110 C-4/B = new variant
Bf 110 C-6 = new variant
Bf 110 C-7 = new variant
He 111 H-2 = new variant
He 111 H-6 torpedo bomber = new variant
Ju 88 A-5 = new variant
Ju 88 A-5 Late = new variant
Ju 88 C-1 = new variant
Ju 88 C-2 = new variant
Ju 88 C-4 = new variant
Ju 88 C-4 Late = new variant
Fiat CR.42 = new type
Macchi C.202 Series III = new type
Macchi C.202 Series III Alta Quota = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Macchi C.202 Series VII = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Macchi C.202 Series VII Alta Quota = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Dewoitine D.520 = new type
Spitfire Mk IIb = new variant
Spitfire Mk Va = new variant
Spitfire Mk Vb = new variant
Spitfire Mk Vb Late = new variant
Spitfire Mk Vb-HF = new variant
Spitfire Mk Vb-HF Late = new variant
Hurricane Mk I-FB = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIa = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIb = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIb Late = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIc = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIc Late = new variant
Hurricane Mk IId = new variant
Kittyhawk Mk Ia = new type
Tomahawk Mk IIb = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Tomahawk Mk IIb Late = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Gladiator Mk II = new type
Martlet Mk III = new type
Blenheim Mk I = new variant
Blenheim Mk IV = new variant
Blenheim Mk IV Late = new variant
Blenheim Mk IV F Late = new variant
Beaufighter Mk IC = new variant
Beaufighter Mk IF Late = new variant
Beaufighter Mk I-NF Late = new variant
Wellington Mk IA = new type
Wellington Mk IC41 = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Wellington Mk IC Late = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Wellington Mk IC-T torpedo bomber = (already mentioned above as a new type)

 

All of the above confirms that a new module, either in Great Battles of in Dover, provides at least ten new types and/or variants.

 

Six new flyable types were provided by the second "Great Battles series" module: the I-16, the MiG-3, the Bf 110, the Ju 88, the P-40 and the MC.202.

 

Eight new flyable types were provided by the second "Dover series" module: the Bf 108, the CR.42, the C.202, the D.520, the P-40, the Gladiator, the Martlet and the Wellington.

 

Peace and love, Reddog, peace and love.

[OBT-Lionel]

2 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

That we have been having this conversation, and the others, on the official forum for the game, for several weeks, with no meaningful interaction from TFS should make it very clear how TFS views it's customers.

Reddog,

 

Don't you think you're exaggerating a bit ???

[Dawson]

3 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

 

There were two new aircraft in Tobruk, the martlet and the macchi.

 

P-40s and D-520 were completely new.

[No.54_Reddog]

4 hours ago, Dawson said:

P-40s and D-520 were completely new.

Good point, well made. I've edited my post to reflect that. (I really must actually try either one of them at some point)

5 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Please reread my response. I'll be more precise: in both "Great Battles" and "Dover", a new module this seems to imply that at least ten new flyables and one new map do constitute the bulk of the  payable content. A new "flyable" is either a type or a variant.

 

Demonstration as follows...

 

In 2013-2014, the premium edition of Stalingrad brought the following flyables:

 

LaGG-3 Series 29
Bf 109 F-4
Yak-1 Series 69
Bf 109 G-2
IL-2 AM-38 (model 1942)
Ju 87 D-3
Pe-2 Series 87
He 111 H-6
La-5 Series
Fw-190 A-3

 

Then in 2016, the premium edition of Moscow brought the following NEW flyables:

 

I-16 Type 24 = new type
Bf 109 E-7 = new variant (the 109 was previously available under the F-4 and G-2 variants)
MiG-3 Series 24 = new type
Bf 109 F-2 = new variant (the 109 was previously available under the F-4 and G-2 variants)
IL-2 AM-38 (model 1941) = new variant (the IL-2 was previously available under the model 1942 variant)
Bf 110 E-2 = new type
Pe-2 Series 35 = new variant (the IL-2 was previously available under the series 87 variant)
Ju 88 A-4 = new type
P-40E-1 = new type
MC.202 Series VIII = new type

 

In 2017, Blitz brought the following flyables:

 

Bf 109 E-1
Bf 109 E-1/B
Bf 109 E-3
Bf 109 E-3/B
Bf 109 E-4
Bf 109 E-4 Late
Bf 109 E-4/B
Bf 109 E-4/B
Bf 109 E-4/N
Bf 109 E-4/N Late
Bf 110 C-2
Bf 110 C-4
Bf 110 C-4
Bf 110 C-4/N
Bf 110 C-4/NJG
Bf 110 C-4/B
Bf 110 C-6
Bf 110 C-7
Ju 87 B-2
Do 17 Z-1
Do 17 Z-2
Do 215 B-1
He 111 H-2
He 111 P-2
Ju 88 A-1
Fiat G.50
Fiat BR.20 M
Spitfire Mk I
Spitfire Mk I (100 octanes)
Spitfire Mk Ia
Spitfire Mk Ia (100 octanes)
Spitfire Mk IIa
Hurricane Mk I (DH 5-20)
Hurricane Mk I (DH 5-20 100 octanes)
Hurricane Mk I (Rotol)
Hurricane Mk I (Rotol 100 octanes)
Hurricane Mk I-FB
Hurricane Mk I-NF
Blenheim Mk IV
Blenheim Mk IV Late
Blenheim Mk IV F
Blenheim Mk IV F Late
Blenheim Mk IV-NF
Blenheim Mk IV-NF Late
Beaufighter Mk IF
Beaufighter Mk I-NF
Tiger Moth
Tiger Moth 1940
Tiger Moth A-1
Tiger Moth A-2

 

And then, in 2020, Tobruk brought the following NEW flyables:

 

Bf 108 B2 Taifun = new type
Bf 109 E-7 = new variant
Bf 109 E-7/N = new variant
Bf 109 E-7/Z = new variant
Bf 109 F-1 = new variant
Bf 109 F-2 = new variant
Bf 109 F-2 Late = new variant
Bf 109 F-4 = new variant
Bf 109 F-4 Derated = new variant
Bf 109 F-4/Z = new variant
Bf 110 C-4/NJG = new variant
Bf 110 C-4/B = new variant
Bf 110 C-6 = new variant
Bf 110 C-7 = new variant
He 111 H-2 = new variant
He 111 H-6 torpedo bomber = new variant
Ju 88 A-5 = new variant
Ju 88 A-5 Late = new variant
Ju 88 C-1 = new variant
Ju 88 C-2 = new variant
Ju 88 C-4 = new variant
Ju 88 C-4 Late = new variant
Fiat CR.42 = new type
Macchi C.202 Series III = new type
Macchi C.202 Series III Alta Quota = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Macchi C.202 Series VII = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Macchi C.202 Series VII Alta Quota = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Dewoitine D.520 = new type
Spitfire Mk IIb = new variant
Spitfire Mk Va = new variant
Spitfire Mk Vb = new variant
Spitfire Mk Vb Late = new variant
Spitfire Mk Vb-HF = new variant
Spitfire Mk Vb-HF Late = new variant
Hurricane Mk I-FB = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIa = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIb = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIb Late = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIc = new variant
Hurricane Mk IIc Late = new variant
Hurricane Mk IId = new variant
Kittyhawk Mk Ia = new type
Tomahawk Mk IIb = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Tomahawk Mk IIb Late = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Gladiator Mk II = new type
Martlet Mk III = new type
Blenheim Mk I = new variant
Blenheim Mk IV = new variant
Blenheim Mk IV Late = new variant
Blenheim Mk IV F Late = new variant
Beaufighter Mk IC = new variant
Beaufighter Mk IF Late = new variant
Beaufighter Mk I-NF Late = new variant
Wellington Mk IA = new type
Wellington Mk IC41 = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Wellington Mk IC Late = (already mentioned above as a new type)
Wellington Mk IC-T torpedo bomber = (already mentioned above as a new type)

 

All of the above confirms that a new module, either in Great Battles of in Dover, provides at least ten new types and/or variants.

 

Six new flyable types were provided by the second "Great Battles series" module: the I-16, the MiG-3, the Bf 110, the Ju 88, the P-40 and the MC.202.

 

Eight new flyable types were provided by the second "Dover series" module: the Bf 108, the CR.42, the C.202, the D.520, the P-40, the Gladiator, the Martlet and the Wellington.

 

Peace and love, Reddog, peace and love.

 

Did I mistakenly wander into the great battles forum? No, thought not. Couldn't care less what Great Battles do or don't do. IL2 CLOD is not, and never has been part of Great Battles. Conflating the two is as much use as bringing DCS into the conversation.

 

As for your long list, all you've done is confirm what I already said (excluding the bit I got wrong about the P40's and D520), Tobruk brought a bunch of non flyables to be flyable. Congrats. Did you have a point other than agreeing with me?

5 hours ago, OBT-Lionel said:

Reddog,

 

Don't you think you're exaggerating a bit ???

By all means point me to the posts I have missed of TFS answering any questions. 

[Buzzsaw]

We will not be providing the details of the contents or map location of TF 6.0 because we are not contractually allowed to do so.

 

1C makes all official announcements.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Just now, Buzzsaw said:

We will not be providing the details of the contents or map location of TF 6.0 because we are not contractually allowed to do so.

 

1C makes all official announcements.

 

 

Thank you Buzzsaw.

 

Reddog, forget if whether or not we are in the Great Battles forum. Please, please, please... PLEASE... PLEASE... REREAD AGAIN the post you are daring contradicting. Here it is (AGAIN): "After so many years, my assumption is that a new module in the "IL-2 Sturmovik" series (whether it is a "Great Battles" game or a "Dover" game) usually does bring approximately 10 new types and/or variants. For example, among the new flyables, the add-on "Desert Wings - Tobruk" brought the Bf 108 Taifun (a new type) and the Messerschmitt Bf 109F (a new variant), among others."

 

I brought two examples only, one example illustrating a new type (new as a flyable) and one example illustrating a new variant (again, new as a flyable). Your fixation on aircraft that were previously AI planes doesn't change the fact that the players, after purchasing Tobruk in 2020, found themselves for the first time in the cockpit of EIGHT new types that never before had been flyable aircraft in the Dover series. When you purchase a flight sim, you purchase it for the flyable planes you may find in it, whatever status they had in the same series in the past. Those who purchased Tobruk in 2020 flew eight types for the first time, eight types that never before had been flyable in the game: the Bf 108, the CR.42, the C.202, the D.520, the P-40, the Gladiator, the Martlet and the Wellington. Never before the Tobruk release we've been in the cockpit of any of those eight types... and this is why we play flight sims, we play flight sims to be in the cockpit and be the master on board. Please Reddog, stop being so picky.

 

 

[Guest deleted@7076]

-Deleted-

Edited September 12, 2022 by Varrattu

[343KKT_Kintaro]

On 8/8/2022 at 12:25 AM, Varrattu said:

The Dieppe Raid (August 1942) e.g. Also known as Operation Jubilee.

 

~V~

 

 

 

The following is a slightly modified version of the answer I gave to Karaya:

 

The 1941 operations on and over the Channel became playable in this game in 2020 thank to "Desert Wings - Tobruk"... because of the same reason that the Battle of Amiens did become possible too... and the reason is the following: on the one hand "Desert Wings - Tobruk" brought the required types and/or the required variants for such battles and operations and on the other hand the Channel map was immediately available at release of the add-on. In my opinion the Dieppe landings will become possible in this game thank to the future new types and/or future new variants which will be available at release of the upcoming add-on, but I don't think the add-on itself will directly deal with the Dieppe landings. The upcoming add-on still might be located somewhere over the shores of the Mediterranean. Why not... in Lebanon/Palestine ? Who knows... well, TFS does know.

 

 

[No.54_Reddog]

12 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

We will not be providing the details of the contents or map location of TF 6.0 because we are not contractually allowed to do so.

 

1C makes all official announcements.

 

We know.  This thread is purely us speculating while we wait for the May announcement.

 

@Kintaro, i can't be bothered expending any further energy or intellect responding to you. Can we just agree to disagree and you ignore me from now on please?