UK experience of importing VKB products?

[Algy-Lacey]

Hi and thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

I live in the UK and have been waiting to find the right deal on Ebay for a secondhand (used) VKB Gunfighter III and MCG grip. The cheapest one I saw was £425, most sell for around £450. This is more than the new price on VKB Europe (flightsimcontrols.com), in their shop they say it is 417 Euros or £360.

Just out of curiosity I went and added the kit I want to the cart and chose my location and, much to my suprise, they quoted 344 Euros plus 15 Euros courier, that's 360 Euros or £310!

 

So, I am very keen to buy this (by all accounts Excellent) flight stick. But I am wondering, what's the hitch?

 

Does anyone from the UK have any experience with VKB Europe who might give me some idea of how much I might pay on taxes and import duty? I'm not even sure if the quoted £310 includes VAT (UK Value Added Tax)? Any idea of how long from payment to delivery on my doorstep?

 

Many thanks,

Algy-Lacey

 

[1Sascha]

1 hour ago, Algy-Lacey said:

Does anyone from the UK have any experience with VKB Europe who might give me some idea of how much I might pay on taxes and import duty? I'm not even sure if the quoted £310 includes VAT (UK Value Added Tax)? Any idea of how long from payment to delivery on my doorstep?

I'd hop on over to VKB's forum and or the HOTAS/HOSAS discord and pose that question to their staff.

 

HOTAS discord: https://discord.gg/szqaJE7

 

Go to the official VKB channel and tag "VKB Operator" in your question...

 

... or check their forum here:

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewforum.php?f=24&sid=dcb7a530cb8f8f293220dd96d6fc2e44

 

Discord is usually the quicker way to get answers... if VKB's staff don't respond instantly, I'd bet you still get an answer from a knowledgeable user.

 

S.

Edited July 4, 2022 by 1Sascha

[Sokol1]

5 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

...on VKB Europe (flightsimcontrols.com), in their shop they say it is 417 Euros or £360.

Just out of curiosity I went and added the kit I want to the cart and chose my location and, much to my suprise, they quoted 344 Euros plus 15 Euros courier, that's 360 Euros or £310!

 

 

Supposedly for UK the local taxes is 20% - plus the Courier delivery taxes; based on what guy say there:

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5051&start=180#p51932

 

Quote

€417,00incl VAT for EU only

 

417 EUROS is the price with VAT for EU only, you will pay the UK local taxes (20%???) over £310.

 

 

[1Sascha]

7 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

417 EUROS is the price with VAT for EU only, you will pay the UK local taxes (20%???) over £310.

That's how I understand it. The prices on the EU store are end-user prices (excluding shipping) - at least that's how it worked for me with my two orders from the EU-store when ordering from Germany. You pay whatever the product's price is in the store plus shipping - and that's it.

 

UK customers OTOH will get a price quote excluding additional local tax but will then have to pay said tax (VAT/import-tax/whatever) separately.

 

Just an educated guess on my part, but here's a thread on reddit with comments from UK customers that seems to confirm that guess:

 

 

.... apparently you pay VKB the lower amount (excluding your local tax and/or import duties) and then you pay those additional taxes/duties to your courier (probably UPS) on delivery - plus (usually) a fee the carrier charges you for taking care of the whole tax-/customs-thing for you (was €6 for me on my last order from the UK, which was a little under €100 in product price).

 

Basically, it's the same sort of hassle I have to go through when ordering directly from China. But I guess that's the price of "taking back control". ?

 

 

 

 

S.

Edited July 5, 2022 by 1Sascha

[Algy-Lacey]

Thanks for your replies and the website links.

 

I will do some reading and post my findings here for anyone else in the same boat. If it's just VAT then it still works out as a good deal at £372.

 

Happy Landings!

Algy-Lacey

[Algy-Lacey]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:03 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

I'm not even sure if the quoted £310 includes VAT (UK Value Added Tax)? Any idea of how long from payment to delivery on my doorstep?

 

So I had a quick browse on the VKB Forum and there is (as of beginning of July) a backlog of orders meaning that I may have to be patient with my order.

 

For UK customers, you have to pay V.A.T. @ 20% and also UPS (the courier) will ask for 'brokerage fees'.  Apparently in UK legislation, joysticks aren't charged import fees. This info was gleaned from a customer. I have contacted VKB today (by email) asking for them to spell out any additional fees after the checkout process. Don't want to badmouth VKB, but on the forums people are saying, how should I put it, that communication (via email) isn't their strong point.

 

So... as a UK customer, this is my (limited) understanding:

 

VKB quote £310 (360 euro) at checkout.

The Courier, UPS, pass on the VAT to you (20%) so that's £62

The Courier also ask for a 'brokerage fee' (whatever that means) for organising the VAT perhaps? Some say £11, (1Sascha paid 6 Euros)

I would expect delivery no sooner than 2 weeks after initial payment

All in that would (theoretically) cost £373

 

I will do some more reading and update this thread with my experience if I go ahead and order.

 

Happy Landings!

Algy-Lacey

Edited July 5, 2022 by Algy-Lacey

[1Sascha]

@Algy-Lacey

 

AFAIK, other than the backlog of "regular" orders, the delays mainly concern the Gladiator NXT Evo sticks... those are still being brought in via air-mail AFAIK - although they should be getting into regular stock soon-ish (meaning they expect a shipment of those things via cargoship/-container).

 

If you're looking at the Gunfighter MCG, those things are all currently in stock as I'm typing this (with/without twist, Russian labels/English labels). If they have products in stock, delivery is pretty quick. At least it was for me when ordering from Germany - and I only live about 200km/120 miles away from their warehouse in the NL.

 

I had waited for the UCM Gladiator desk-mount to get back into stock - placed my order about 20 mins after I got the "back in stock"-email from them (on a Saturday) and received the mount by Thursday or Friday of the next week. Actual parcel travel time was around 24 hours with UPS.

 

S.

Edited July 5, 2022 by 1Sascha

[Easy_Kill_Here]

Hi Algy-Lacey,

 

My experience with ordering from VKB Europe to the UK was as follows.

 

7th May: I placed my order for a Gladiator EVO 'Space Combat Edition' and Gladiator NXT EVO Omni Throttle.

 

The total (excluding VAT) was €373.55 with UPS shipping of €15.60 giving a total of €389.25 which I paid using Paypal.

 

The order page made it clear that there would likely be a 2 week delay in sending it out as they were awaiting stock.

 

22nd May: VKB e-mailed me to say they were expecting a shipment (which included my order) to be delivered to them in the Netherlands in the week commencing the 30th May. They apologised for the additional delay which they said was in part the result of the EVO being a new product line.

 

7th June: VKB e-mailed me to say my order was complete and had been shipped with UPS.

 

7th June: UPS e-mailed me to say they had my order and it would be delivered on the 9th May.

 

8th June: A number of e-mails from UPS stating that the delivery status had changed to be on hold as VKB had informed them that the shipment required 'import duties' to be paid.

 

The amount required was £78.38.

 

The UPS e-mail included a link to their payment page with gave the breakdown as 'Government Charges' of £66.88 (presumably VAT) and a 'Brokerage Fee' of £11.50. There were various payment options but I paid immediately using Paypal. I don't remember if there was a 'cash on delivery' option. I received an immediate confirmation e-mail from UPS that these fees had been paid.

 

A couple of hours later I received an e-mail from UPS stating a delivery time window for the 9th May.

 

9th June: UPS delivered my order within the time window.

 

I knew from the start there would be a delay of at least 2 weeks and I was not unduly bothered about the extra 2 weeks as VKB had contacted me to explain the situation.

 

Hope that helps,

 

John.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Easy_Kill_Here

[Algy-Lacey]

@Easy_Kill_Here

 

Thanks for the breakdown, very reassuring.

 

4 hours ago, Easy_Kill_Here said:

7th June: VKB e-mailed me to say my order was complete and had been shipped with UPS.

 

7th June: UPS e-mailed me to say they had my order and it would be delivered on the 9th May.

 

8th June: A number of e-mails from UPS stating that the delivery status had changed to be on hold as VKB had informed them that the shipment required 'import duties' to be paid.

 

The amount required was £78.38.

 

So from order completed by VKB to UPS asking for additional 'import duties' took just 1 day, and when you got the email link from UPS and paid the VAT and 'brokerage fee ' then UPS delivered the next day. That is a lot better than I was expecting! Thanks for sharing your experience!

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

[Algy-Lacey]

I can now happily say, my VKB Gunfighter Mk III, MCG Pro grip, 200mm extension and small baseplate have arrived and I am mightily impressed!

 

From receiving my order on 21/09/22 it didn't take VKB much time at all to dispatch my order. UPS (courier) sent an email asking for me to pay UK VAT and a small handling fee. I did this using Paypal and immediately got another email confirming that. Unfortunately there was a small wait whilst UPS farted around... their email said delivery on tuesday 11:45pm to 15:45pm... so I waited, nothing... I then saw that it actually said estimated delivery wednesday 11:45pm to 15:45pm, but when I tracked the order it said that it wasn't 'out for delivery' yet. Anyway, it turned up at last a few days ago. No idea what the hold up was.

 

So that is the courier saga (no fault of VKB)

 

The product?

 

The build quality is flawless, installation of the stiffer #50 springs (for use with 200mm extension) was easy and straightforward, the MCG Pro grip has an adjustable palm rest (which my small hands love) and more buttons than I had thought. It has 2 x POV analog sticks - don't know what I could possibly use them for? They also have a centre push button. and what I had assumed were 3 x rocker switches are actually 4-way hat switches with centre push button. 3 more buttons on the top of the stick, pinky button and triggers for 3 weapons! A fold down trigger (rockets?) and a two-stage trigger (1st stage machine guns, 2nd stage fire all guns).

All of the functions mean that I can map all of the controls of my Thrustmaster T.16000m just to the MCG pro grip. Was thinking I would have to add more button boxes.

The feel of the stick, now that I have it mounted on a wooden pedestal, is so so smooth. I have the Avia soft centre cams fitted (from factory) and it feels very precise, especially small movements near the centre. A huge improvement on my Thrustmaster T.16000m.

 

Next up for me? See what it feels like in-game!

 

A question for VKB users... The Youtube videos say that I have to download some VKB software to calibrate my stick - VKBDevCfg - but on the VKB Europe website it says "Works with all current flight simulators" "No drivers required". Do I need the VKB software?

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

Edited October 7, 2022 by Algy-Lacey
config

[dburne]

Yes absolutely - only calibrate in VKB Software, never in Windows!!!

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by dburne

[Algy-Lacey]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

Yes absolutely - only calibrate in VKB Software, never in Windows!!!

 

Ok, thanks. I will take a look at the video.

 

And thanks very much for your excellent review of the Gunfighter MkIII, it helped me choose to take the plunge!

[dburne]

27 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

Ok, thanks. I will take a look at the video.

 

And thanks very much for your excellent review of the Gunfighter MkIII, it helped me choose to take the plunge!

 

You are most welcome, have fun!

[Youtch]

It is a fantatic product. Cannot wait for them to release one day there new throttle with electric detent.

[Algy-Lacey]

Thanks to that video, I downloaded VKBDevCfg and successfully calibrated my Gunfighter. I had one small issue in that the roll axis wouldn't centre perfectly every time, it wasn't out by much, a half of 1 percent perhaps, but it might make for some unwanted aileron deflection in game. The forces required to deflect the controls are still quite light due to the 200mm extension.

 

@dburne Is it easy to add a 2nd spring on the roll axis? I remember seeing some grooves outboard of the first spring (which is right next to the pin on the cam), is that where I can add a 2nd spring? I currently have #50 springs installed. Which 2nd spring should I add? a #20? #30?

 

5 hours ago, Youtch said:

It is a fantatic product. Cannot wait for them to release one day there new throttle with electric detent.

 

That sounds like a great throttle! Adjustable electric detent? Yes please! But next on my wishlist is some better rudder pedals.

[dburne]

14 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

Thanks to that video, I downloaded VKBDevCfg and successfully calibrated my Gunfighter. I had one small issue in that the roll axis wouldn't centre perfectly every time, it wasn't out by much, a half of 1 percent perhaps, but it might make for some unwanted aileron deflection in game. The forces required to deflect the controls are still quite light due to the 200mm extension.

 

@dburne Is it easy to add a 2nd spring on the roll axis? I remember seeing some grooves outboard of the first spring (which is right next to the pin on the cam), is that where I can add a 2nd spring? I currently have #50 springs installed. Which 2nd spring should I add? a #20? #30?

 

 

Correct , there are two grooves to allow two springs per axis, each spring goes in it's own groove and you will want to orient the spring coils opposite of each other for them to have a good fit. Each coil should face outward opposite of each other.

[Sokol1]

On 10/7/2022 at 2:09 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

A question for VKB users... The Youtube videos say that I have to download some VKB software to calibrate my stick - VKBDevCfg - but on the VKB Europe website it says "Works with all current flight simulators" "No drivers required". Do I need the VKB software?

 

Yes, no drivers install is required, VKB use Windows HID drivers, so is "PnP".

 

VKB DevCfg software is used for:

• Calibration
• Set axes curves
• Firmware update
• Advanced buttons configuration, like Tempo, Macros, etc. What is stored in joystick EPROM memory, like the old Fox software do for Tm F22PRO, Cougar, not being required to leave this software running in games background like other joystick softwares.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Sokol1

[Algy-Lacey]

17 minutes ago, dburne said:

Correct , there are two grooves to allow two springs per axis, each spring goes in it's own groove and you will want to orient the spring coils opposite of each other for them to have a good fit. Each coil should face outward opposite of each other.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean about "orient the spring coils opposite of each other", but I'm sure it will become apparant once I have a look at the gimbal internals again.

What strength of spring would you recommend for the 2nd spring? I am guessing that I could mount a #10 for a tiny adjustment, all the way up to a #40 for maximum stiffness?

 

18 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

VKB DevCfg software is used for:

• Calibration
• Set axes curves
• Firmware update
• Advanced buttons configuration, like Tempo, Macros, etc. What is stored in joystick EPROM memory, like the old Fox software do for Tm F22PRO, Cougar, not being required to leave this software running in games background like other joystick softwares.

 

Yeah VKBDevCfg looks like a very powerful, complex bit of software, although it is very straightforward to calibrate a flightstick to get up and running. I am thinking I might like to get the analog mini-stick labelled 'Master Mode' set up as a mouse replacement because my mouse isn't handy when in VR. On the 'test' screen of the software, under axes, the range of that mini-stick is gradual... taking a few seconds to move from one extreme to the other, seems like it could move a mouse cursor. I learnt that this is possible, but will take me a bit of time to figure this out.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean about "orient the spring coils opposite of each other", but I'm sure it will become apparant once I have a look at the gimbal internals again.

What strength of spring would you recommend for the 2nd spring? I am guessing that I could mount a #10 for a tiny adjustment, all the way up to a #40 for maximum stiffness?

 

 

It really depends on how you run it, with extension and what size or without. Desktop mode I would think only one.

I run a 200 mm extension and the heavier Ultimate Grip. I run the Aero Soft cams and each axis I have a #50 and #40 spring.

[ciderworm]

I use two #50's on each axis with a 200mm extension. I don't think you would even notice the addition of a #10.

 

Incidentally, if you break the wire puller tool that comes with the base (they do eventually wear out, especially with the heavier springs) the exact replacements can be found in fishing tackle - I think they are called wire traces & are used for pike fishing. I bought a bundle, kept the 100mm ones & gave the others to some friends who fish. You just snip off the swivel.

[Youtch]

19 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean about "orient the spring coils opposite of each other", but I'm sure it will become apparant once I have a look at the gimbal internals again.

What strength of spring would you recommend for the 2nd spring? I am guessing that I could mount a #10 for a tiny adjustment, all the way up to a #40 for maximum stiffness?

 

 

Yeah VKBDevCfg looks like a very powerful, complex bit of software, although it is very straightforward to calibrate a flightstick to get up and running. I am thinking I might like to get the analog mini-stick labelled 'Master Mode' set up as a mouse replacement because my mouse isn't handy when in VR. On the 'test' screen of the software, under axes, the range of that mini-stick is gradual... taking a few seconds to move from one extreme to the other, seems like it could move a mouse cursor. I learnt that this is possible, but will take me a bit of time to figure this out.

It can indeed, there is video on how to configure it on VKB youtube  channel.

[dburne]

11 hours ago, ciderworm said:

I use two #50's on each axis with a 200mm extension. I don't think you would even notice the addition of a #10.

 

Incidentally, if you break the wire puller tool that comes with the base (they do eventually wear out, especially with the heavier springs) the exact replacements can be found in fishing tackle - I think they are called wire traces & are used for pike fishing. I bought a bundle, kept the 100mm ones & gave the others to some friends who fish. You just snip off the swivel.

 

Great tip thanks for that!

Yeah I eventually broke mine and could certainly use some more to have around.

 

[1Sascha]

On 10/7/2022 at 7:09 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

Unfortunately there was a small wait whilst UPS farted around... their email said delivery on tuesday 11:45pm to 15:45pm... so I waited, nothing... I then saw that it actually said estimated delivery wednesday 11:45pm to 15:45pm, but when I tracked the order it said that it wasn't 'out for delivery' yet.

Yeah... UPS has got to be the worst WRT their tracking system. Plus they don't deliver on Saturdays, unless you (or the vendor) pays extra. I've had these meaningless "your order will arrive on XYZ" first notification mails every single time I ordered from VKB (three times now). Just ignore whatever they send you unless VKB have sent you their "your order has now been processed"-mail.

 

 

On 10/9/2022 at 6:20 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean about "orient the spring coils opposite of each other", but I'm sure it will become apparant once I have a look at the gimbal internals again

 

 

 

Here's a pic of my GF gimbal showing how the springs should be oriented if you opt for dual springs. Basically, the two "flat" sides of the springs should face each other. It might make more sense once you have the springs in your hand and can inspect them for yourself.

 

I'm running 30+30 on Y, 10+20 on X and I have the stick mounted on a UCM-S without an extension (central mount). I prefer a bit of stiffness on the elevator-axis, but I wouldn't call that setup overly stiff. I would imagine you'd need quite a bit more spring-tensions and dampening with that long-ass 200mm extension.

You might also look into re-greasing your clutches. I ordered my GF in late August 2022 and it had a production date of Sept 2020 - which explained why the clutches were near unusable out of the box. Small corrections were impossible to make without the axes feeling "sticky" - kinda like how my old TM TWCS felt when I wanted to make small throttle corrections. I took everything apart (there's a VKB video "how to re-grease your Gunfighter" on YT), found that the factory grease had gone bad, cleaned it off with some isopropyl and tried them dry. Felt better but I still couldn't run as much clutch as I wanted without things getting "sticky". So I took the gimbal apart again and re-greased the clutches with the extra dampening grease that is included in my Gladiator Evo. The difference that made was *huge* - turned the stick from "slightly underwhelming" into "they can have my Gunfighter when they pry it from my cold, dead hands".

 

Dampening grease is black magic.... ?

 

 

 

20 hours ago, dburne said:

the exact replacements can be found in fishing tackle -

Yup.. those GF springs are way harder on that tool than the Evo's.. my first line has snapped already, while the tool I used with my Evo still looks brand-new.

 

I've already set aside a meter or two of my favorite big-game leader. I just hope it's of a thick enough gauge, since I don't have any Kevlar leaders in the house... but I guess that's as good an excuse as any to start planning my next big game trip a bit early...

 

S.

Edited October 11, 2022 by 1Sascha

[dburne]

14 minutes ago, 1Sascha said:

 

 

Yup.. those GF springs are way harder on that tool than the Evo's.. my first line has snapped already, while the tool I used with my Evo still looks brand-new.

 

I've already set aside a meter or two of my favorite big-game leader. I just hope it's of a thick enough gauge, since I don't have any Kevlar leaders in the house... but I guess that's as good an excuse as any to start planning my next big game trip a bit early...

 

S.

 

Zip ties work fairly well also.

 

 

[Algy-Lacey]

1 hour ago, 1Sascha said:

Here's a pic of my GF gimbal showing how the springs should be oriented if you opt for dual springs. Basically, the two "flat" sides of the springs should face each other. It might make more sense once you have the springs in your hand and can inspect them for yourself.

 

Thanks for posting a photo, I now see what you guys mean about the springs.

Unfortunately I cannot get to the underside of my Gunfighter to remove the screws from the bottom of the gimbal housing, at least not until I remove the Small Baseplate that I have screwed into a wooden pedestal. I will get round to it and post some photos of my setup, I went for a D.I.Y. solution that I am quite pleased with, rather than a UCM stronghold desk mount or whathaveyou.

[1Sascha]

2 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

rather than a UCM stronghold desk mount

Not to be heaping too much praise on VKB, but those UCMs are pretty good. They're rock solid and I love the way the GF "integrates" into the mount (the UCM's baseplate becomes the GF's top-plate and the base hangs underneath it).

 

 

 

Only drawback with that is that getting to the gimbal or even manipulating the clutches is a bit of a pain, since you need to take everything apart, more or less, to do anything to the gimbal.

 

^ That's the gimbal mounted directly to the UCM's baseplate. So every time you need to get to it (or just want to run it without the dustcover to adjust the clutches while using the stick), you need to take the base housing off, which I don't like to do with the base-plate mounted to the UCM because of that one cable running from the gimbal to the PCB inside the housing.

 

First world problems, I know. ? Once everything is set, this thing is pretty sweet though.

 

 

S.