Sopwith Triplane doesn't have downward deflected elevator without airflow (with force feedback joystick)

[BMA_Hellbender]

Unlike all the other planes in Flying Circus, the Sopwith Triplane doesn't have the elevator deflected downward when there is no airflow over it, which should cause it to drop through gravity. This is noticeable with an FFB joystick because it is centered without airflow rather than pulling forward.

 

In the hangar screen it is displayed correctly with the elevator deflected downwards without airflow:

 

(elevator downward without airflow)

 

 

However, in the sim, the force feedback stick should pull forward to simulate the elevator deflecting downward without airflow, but instead it incorrectly centers.

 

(joystick centered and elevator centered without airflow, joystick should be forward and elevator downward)

 

 

 

 

 

Compare this to the S.E.5a:

 

(joystick forward and elevator downward without airflow)

 

 

(joystick and elevator become centered with airflow)

 

 

Both the S.E.5a and Sopwith Triplane have adjustable stabilizers and don't have counterbalanced elevators, so the behaviour should be the same.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Hellbender

[Cynic_Al]

19 hours ago, Hellbender said:

Unlike all the other planes in Flying Circus, the Sopwith Triplane doesn't have the elevator deflected downward when there is no airflow over it, which should cause it to drop through gravity.

 

Does this affect the FFB in flight or when the engine is running?  If not I don't see a problem, because there's no certainty that the elevator would drop in the absence of airflow, since it would have to overcome the frictional resistance offered by the rest of the control system.  If you see this type of plane parked with its elevator lowered, it's most likely due to the pilot having pushed the stick when exiting the cockpit.

[BMA_Hellbender]

4 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

Does this affect the FFB in flight or when the engine is running?  If not I don't see a problem, because there's no certainty that the elevator would drop in the absence of airflow, since it would have to overcome the frictional resistance offered by the rest of the control system.  If you see this type of plane parked with its elevator lowered, it's most likely due to the pilot having pushed the stick when exiting the cockpit.

 

This only happens when there is zero airflow going over the elevator, at standstill with no engine running.

 

As for the elevator remaining centered and not falling down due to gravity, I find this somewhat unlikely unless something is physically blocking the stick from moving forward. This behaviour is the same on all Flying Circus planes and is also shown with the Triplane on the hangar screen, just not inside the simulation. So either the behaviour of the Triplane is wrong, or that of every other plane.

 

By way of illustration, most period photographs I can find of the Triplane clearly have the elevator down when parked. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some a bit more ambiguous:

 

 

 

 

 

And at least one is centered (perhaps locked in place?):

 

 

 

My assumption remains that due to the lack of counterweight, if there is nothing to hold the elevator up or to lock the stick in place inside the cockpit, it should fall down/move forward. I'm willing to entertain the idea that the stick could simply be limp rather than falling forward (as was the case in RoF), however in the sim there is a centering force happening with FFB.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Hellbender

[Cynic_Al]

6 hours ago, Hellbender said:

My assumption remains that due to the lack of counterweight, if there is nothing to hold the elevator up or to lock the stick in place inside the cockpit

 

To elaborate on what I meant about resistance in the control system,  to move the elevator would require the simultaneous movement of the four tensioned cables controlling it, each of which needs to change direction in at least one place along its length, in order to run under the pilot's seat.  This would be achieved by means of something like a pulley or slipper tensioner,  requiring mechanical effort.  However, even if moving the cables themselves required no effort, with the aircraft parked, the centred control column would be angled backwards, its mass opposing any downward elevator movement.

[BMA_Hellbender]

2 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

To elaborate on what I meant about resistance in the control system,  to move the elevator would require the simultaneous movement of the four tensioned cables controlling it, each of which needs to change direction in at least one place along its length, in order to run under the pilot's seat.  This would be achieved by means of something like a pulley or slipper tensioner,  requiring mechanical effort.  However, even if moving the cables themselves required no effort, with the aircraft parked, the centred control column would be angled backwards, its mass opposing any downward elevator movement.

 

Let me ask you this differently: would the stick in the Sopwith Triplane be centering itself with zero airflow rather than being completely limp (as is the case in RoF) or pulling forward (as is the case with all other Flying Circus planes)?

 

If the behaviour of the Sopwith Triplane is meant to be different I'd like to understand why.

[Cynic_Al]

5 hours ago, Hellbender said:

If the behaviour of the Sopwith Triplane is meant to be different I'd like to understand why.

 

There's no reason it should be any different to other planes with similar controls, but by accident or design it's more representative of reality. 

[BMA_Hellbender]

Bump.

 

Any chance this could get fixed @-DED-Rapidus? Seems like something that would be easy to do, it's already the case on all the other Flying Circus planes.

 

For the record: I can confirm from several sources (myself included with a reproduction) that the normal behaviour in any of these WWI planes is indeed that the control column falls forward / elevators deflects downward when you let go of the stick on the ground.

[-DED-Rapidus]

On 4/26/2022 at 4:58 AM, Hellbender said:

Both the S.E.5a and Sopwith Triplane have adjustable stabilizers and don't have counterbalanced elevators, so the behaviour should be the same.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

[BMA_Hellbender]

On 6/21/2022 at 3:46 PM, -DED-Rapidus said:

Thanks, I'll check it out.

 

Do you have an update on this @-DED-Rapidus?

 

Bug is still present as of 5.101.

[-DED-Rapidus]

@=IRFC=Hellbender, I'm sorry, thank you for reminding me, I passed the question to the engineer.