Fuel Fires Self-Extinguish

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

There seems to be a random chance that a fuel fire will self-extinguish even if the aircraft is traveling at low speed. Happens often enough that an aircraft set on fire isn't always considered a dead aircraft.

 

Track File: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1lo9jklsp9sy8tr/FuelFireProblem.rar?dl=0

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by =SqSq=SignorMagnifico

[-DED-Rapidus]

On 4/11/2022 at 2:46 AM, =SqSq=SignorMagnifico said:

There seems to be a random chance

The player used the sliding rudder, there is a chance to quickly extinguish the fire.

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

On 4/12/2022 at 4:51 PM, -DED-Rapidus said:

The player used the sliding rudder, there is a chance to quickly extinguish the fire.

I see. Makes sense that engine fires could be put out occasionally that way. However, it seems to be happening too often. I have another example here. Track file in dropbox link. Happens at about 2 minutes 45 seconds into the track.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z6t0o5mklt5yhjr/EngineFireBug2.rar?dl=0

 

 

 

[-DED-Rapidus]

@=SqSq=SignorMagnifico,  the same effect of lateral sliding in a spiral.

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

5 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

@=SqSq=SignorMagnifico,  the same effect of lateral sliding in a spiral.

Thank you for your analysis.

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

I have some additional concerns regarding aircraft fires which leads me to believe that this is a damage model bug.

 

1. During an objective test using more than one aircraft and ammunition type causing a fire in the aircraft fuel tank, I was able to reliably put out the fire 100% of the time using sideslip. Engine fires do not appear to make a difference in previous testing. I conducted seven independent tests with a squad mate, and some of the fires occurred on the same aircraft.

2. If this is unintentional behavior, then, I think this is ample evidence that there is a bug in the damage model or at least the probability of the fire being extinguished.

3. If this is intentional behavior, I think it would help the community if one of the devs could point to their source of information that states this is true to real-life. In the sources I have been able to find, I could not find going into a sideslip as standard procedure to put out an engine or fuel tank fire. I did, however, find that sideslip is encouraged for wing fires to prevent the flames from affecting the center fuel tank or the cabin of the aircraft. Also, if side slipping to put out fires was so effective, it begs the question as to why aviation technology deemed it necessary to include extinguishers in aircraft and why the parachute was invented during WWI to save pilots from burning to death in their planes. It seems to me that if fires could be put out so easily then pilots would be more to blame if they decided to abandon the aircraft as opposed to putting out the flames by side slipping.

4. As it applies to IL-2, it used to be that seeing an aircraft on fire generally meant that the aircraft was unrecoverable. As it stands now, in multiplayer, it means that every aircraft is potentially still a deadly weapon even if it is on fire. Online pilots should be shooting until witnessing the aircraft falling to pieces or the death of the pilot, which just doesn't seem realistic from a WWII pilot perspective. Generally, an aircraft on fire would have been considered a kill.

 

Tracks of tests conducted:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/griqjdtzz5rfw4z/FuelFireBug3.rar?dl=0

 

Additional sources:

https://americanflightschools.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/CESSNA-172-M-N-P-EMERGENCY.pdf

https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/el/fire_research/R0601290.pdf

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by =SqSq=SignorMagnifico

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

Additional testing done to replicate the issue in Flying Circus. Engine fires and fuel fires are too easily put out with sideslip with 100% probability.

 

Track file https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xcq8a4ccqu5abp/IL2FCEngineFireBug.rar?dl=0

 

 

[-DED-Rapidus]

Once again, this is not a bug. This is the current implementation of the damage model, we will not be able to make edits to the damage model every patch. Be patient, the time will come and we will deal with the issue of the relevance of the current damage model and what edits need to be made to it.

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

13 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

Once again, this is not a bug. This is the current implementation of the damage model, we will not be able to make edits to the damage model every patch. Be patient, the time will come and we will deal with the issue of the relevance of the current damage model and what edits need to be made to it.

Thank you for your response. I understand now that it is 1C’s position that the damage model is working as intended. Unfortunately, based on objective evidence, this does not appear to be a realistic implementation, and I think I have demonstrated that this feature is exploitable by players. I hope the devs will see reason to revisit this soon considering that it is game-breaking from the user’s point of view.

[US103_Baer]

14 minutes ago, =SqSq=SignorMagnifico said:

Thank you for your response. I understand now that it is 1C’s position that the damage model is working as intended. Unfortunately, based on objective evidence, this does not appear to be a realistic implementation, and I think I have demonstrated that this feature is exploitable by players. I hope the devs will see reason to revisit this soon considering that it is game-breaking from the user’s point of view.

 

Thanks for doing the due-diligence of testing and submitting evidence for Devs.
Fires in FC are easily extinguished 100% of the time with a simple side-slip. Most players know this and treat fire as a minor inconvenience.

Needless to say this is contrary to every single historical report or analysis.

 

@-DED-Rapidus Thanks for the response. We'll look forward to it being addressed at some point soon.

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:17 PM, US103_Baer said:

 

Thanks for doing the due-diligence of testing and submitting evidence for Devs.
Fires in FC are easily extinguished 100% of the time with a simple side-slip. Most players know this and treat fire as a minor inconvenience.

Needless to say this is contrary to every single historical report or analysis.

 

@-DED-Rapidus Thanks for the response. We'll look forward to it being addressed at some point soon.

I just want to document that, for the record, the devs finally admitted this is a bug and addressed it in the latest patch. 

[US103_Baer]

11 minutes ago, =SqSq=SignorMagnifico said:

I just want to document that, for the record, the devs finally admitted this is a bug and addressed it in the latest patch. 

Maybe not.  I did a quick test and had no problem putting out fires in a D7. 

[=SqSq=SignorMagnifico]

3 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

Maybe not.  I did a quick test and had no problem putting out fires in a D7. 

Yes, a friend and I just tested it. It seems to be a bit more difficult than before, but it's still too easy.

Edited August 6, 2022 by =SqSq=SignorMagnifico