Rebuilding my HOTAS: VKB NXT EVO KG12 first impressions

March 24, 2022

UPS just dropped this stick off at my place, so I slapped it together and started to map it in my sims, but I'm still playing around with the adjustable clutches the EVO now comes with. I'm a bit peculiar when it comes to stick-feel and had been using the Sidewinder FF2 for over a decade now, so I guess I'm trying to make the VKB behave similarly to that stick. Anyhow... thought I'd leave my first impressions here because, I guess, I'm among the first customers to receive the EVO in Europe. They just received their first shipment via air-mail at slightly higher cost - regular-priced, ship-imported examples should be on the way soon but won't arrive before late May/early June IIRC.

From what I understand, they upgraded the inner workings of their NXT-line quite significantly, but that info is available on VKB's site and in their forums with way better technical explanations than I could provide. AFAIK, it now has a gimbal with adjustable clutches, so it's technically pretty similar to their high end offerings - albeit with components made from reinforced plastic instead of steel.

Here's the KG12 on VKB Europe's site:

https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/gladiator-nxt-evo-wwii-combat-edition/

The stick arrives partially disassembled in a shoebox-sized shipping box, inside are two separate branded boxes - one contains the grip, the other the base module and steel base-plate, a few bags with screws, a small plate to lock the X-axis (because you can use the EVO as the base of a throttle/collective). Plus a USB-cable, a sleeve to protect the grip's cable during assembly and a pretty tiny Allen-type screwdriver (I used my own modular screwdriver and had to use one of the laptop-sized bits to find the perfect match for VKB's screws). Thankfully all screws you'll need use the same type and size of bit, so no need to use any other drivers except the one VKB provide. The packaging is very well done, especially for the base-unit .. lots of padding/foamy-bits to prevent damage to the product in transit. The grip was wrapped in bubble-foil and sat inside of more air-cushion material. Not as super-professional looking as the base's packaging, but highly effective nonetheless.

There's also a quick-start guide with step by step pictograms illustrating how to attach the grip to the base. Apart from a minor hiccup WRT what screws to use to fix the grip in place (there are two sets of screws that would fit, one much longer than the other and the manual doesn't specify which set to use), assembly was a breeze.

EDIT: According to VKB, it's the short screws you need to use. The long ones are meant for the same holes, but are only included in case you overtighten the shorter ones and thus mess up the holes they go into. Only then would you need to use the long ones.

VKB also have a pretty good video up on YT, demonstrating assembly, so even butterfingered individuals such as myself should have no problem. The video also explains how to set up the stick in VKB's controller software - which was also pretty easy and took me about a minute or so. The rest of their software looks rather capable and powerful, but also pretty frightening and cryptic. Good luck trying to figure out all the weirdly named functions in there without a guide. I'm pretty sure their software could easily cover my needs WRT button-customization and I'd love to use it for that (the stick has on-board memory AFAIK, so I could probably set everything up permanently), but it's not nearly as self-explanatory and accessible as Joy2Key, so I'm sticking with that for now.

Ok... the stick itself:

I ordered the KG12 variant because I fly mostly WW2 stuff and almost exclusively LW... plus I always loved the look of the thing and VKB have done a nice job of replicating the original. Even down to a fake LW-Anforderungszeichen ID-tag at the bottom of the grip, listing VKBSim as Hersteller (manufacturer). And they even got all the German spelling right... I was considering their space-sim grip with a ton of additional hats and an analogue mini-stick, but since their prices are higher at the moment due to airfreight cost, that thing would've been nearly €230 with shipping and I wasn't sure if its bomb/cannon button would fit me ergonomically (my hands aren't the largest).

The grip comes with the original's signature safety-catch that doubles as the main trigger when flipped forward. Nice to see that this bit is made from metal, not plastic. There's a small magnet in the catch that will hold the trigger in place in its "live" position. The trigger action is very light, but still offers very nice feedback when you pull it. On top of the stick is your cannon- or bomb-release button which also boasts an excellent action. Next to that, attached to the left side of the grip, sits an 8-way POV hat in a historically "correct" sort of housing. Original sticks had a large button here IIRC, but the hat doesn't look out of place or anachronistic. Action on the hat is also rather good and precise. It does not however have a push/click function. That function was transferred to a new button when VKB re-vamped their KG12 grip. It's built into the left side of the grip itself, pretty much where your ringfinger rests in normal operation. While this button works fine, I'm not 100% sure about its placement. It's a bit awkward to use for me and thus not a button I would use for stuff I need to activate regularly. The last button is a pinky-type of deal that is now activated via a small metal lever that sits over it. Very well placed and very easy to operate.

On the base the stick has three more simple buttons, a dedicated throttle lever with a nice, "damped" feel to it and two more sliders that send button presses when you roll them up or down (so four buttons plus three in total). Those three throttle/slider elements would be excellent for throttle-less setups, but since I did buy me a cheapo TM TWCS throttle, I probably won't use them.

EDIT: Because past me is an idiot, I'm going to have to correct him here. Those three controls are super handy even with a throttle - especially with one that's not overflowing with buttons/axes like my TWCS. The throttle slider is now mapped as one of the many radiator controls the game has for some reason (only the Dora and perhaps the odd LW bomber seem to use that control though). The other two wheels work very well for water- and oil-radiators in the 110 E-2 and some other planes. It's not ideal having to take my left hand off the main throttle to work these, but it sure beats having to remember all sorts of weird keyboard combos.

First impressions in-game: I only used the stick on some free-flight missions in IL-2 so far and I haven't dialed in the axes resistances yet. To do so, you need to take out the four screws fixing the steel base-plate to the all-plastic housing, then manipulate three screws on the gimbal to set X- and Y- stiffness independently of each other. The action of the stick feels very smooth and precise and the return to center is what I would call... buttery I guess? Almost forgot the twist action, which feels nice and stiff and more precise than what my old SW FF2 had. Sadly, I'll be forced to use this function, since I have pushed the purchase of a set of Crosswinds to the summer. Anyhow: The overall impression this thing gives off is one of solidity, even though this is a product made of 90% or so plastic (only the base-plate, trigger and pinky-lever are metal). Which leads me to my first, and so far only, point of criticism:

Despite the solid steel base, the stick still feels a little too light in operation. Especially for players like me who prefer their stick's resistance on the stiff side. It's not that it's wandering around on the desk all the time (it comes with four large anti-skid rubber pads pre-applied), but I did run into situations where the stick did move a bit when I applied input to the grip. Either the base-plate should be enlarged to give the thing a bigger footprint or VKB should fit it with extra weights inside the main housing to weigh it down. A third option would be to velcro or screw the whole thing to your desk. There are four holes for the latter option in the base-plate, but I'm not about to drill holes into my new desk .

EDIT: My next minor gripe I only discovered after a few hours of gameplay, not in a serious sim, but in Star Wars Squadrons: With all the hectic stick-jerking this game seems to require, my hand and lower arm were sort of cramping up after a while. The grip is probably just a tad too large for my hands and the palm-rest is too flat to stop my hand from slipping off. That thing should be curved upwards on the edge like it is on the SW FF2 to support the hand and keep it in place. Since the KG12 doesn't seem to come with VKB's "small hands"-part to raise the palm-rest (they do include this with the space-sim grip), I fashioned my own from hard memory foam I had lying around. Cut three layers of the stuff to fit the palm-rest, stacked them on there and taped it all down. Now my hand sits 1 to 1.5 cm higher on the grip, which has improved ergonomics overall (top button is easier to reach) and made the stick more comfortable.

Anyway... since my internet connection starts acting up, I guess I'll leave it at that, but not without saying that, so far, I'm very impressed with this product and would recommend it to anyone who doesn't want to take the plunge into "high end", luxury flightsticks yet.

Sascha

Edited April 13, 2022 by 1Sascha

March 25, 2022

Thanks for that review. I'm very happy with my Gladiator Mk.II, but when that goes, I'll be looking at this for sure. I use a poor man's throttle (Flashfire Cobra Accelerator) with the Gladiator, but I do have the VKB T-Rudders Mk.IV which is excellent.

Edited March 25, 2022 by WallysWorld

March 25, 2022

^ My super-professional fix for my tiny-hands-problem. Ergonomics are improved significantly, looks aren't. Let's see if it'll last. ?

Also just got myself some heavy duty velcro (though not the plastic-on-plastic super heavy duty kind I wanted) to fix the thing to the desk in a somewhat reversible way. Back in the 90s I was using that all metal TM FLCS (F4-grip) which came with insanely strong velcro and had such stiff springs that it was practically unusable without it. So fixing the stick to the desk should alter performance quite significantly - and enable me to go all out on the Y-axis stiffness.

S.

Edited April 20, 2022 by 1Sascha

March 27, 2022

I'll just update the thread, blog-style.. ?

Ran into a minor oh $hit!-moment today when the stick suddenly locked up on me on its X-axis during an IL-2 offline mission. Undid the velcro with a butter knife (it's that hard to separate), and when I picked the stick up to open it, I heard rattling noises from inside. Which was a relief because it confirmed my suspicion that I went a bit too far anti-clockwise with one of the adjustment screws for the clutches/gimbal. Turns out I was right and that the screw had fallen out ... easy fix and now everything's back to normal.

Stick-performance-wise I can definitely say that this thing feels extremely precise - both mechanically and electronically. Sadly, my muscle memory is all wrong now of course: New stick, new throttle new monitor... plus I'm sitting at a new desk in a new chair *and* I'm flying without rudder pedals for the first time in years which all calls for some serious re-adjustment and re-learning. It's always been amazing to me how some little differences in seating position (even when nothing else in my setup had changed) could make the difference between "I feel exactly what I'm doing in-game" and "I feel completely detached and out of control".

While I had the thing opened up anyway, I would have played around with the clutches a bit more to dial in my perfect settings. But it turns out that the batch my stick came in was delivered from China with the additional springs missing. I *guess* mine has the medium ones installed and it should come with two replacement sets with softer and harder springs. VKB have already stated that those would be shipped within the next 7 - 10 days, so I won't be making any more adjustments until then. I have a suspicion that even though I've always preferred harder spring tension, this stick might feel best to me with softer springs installed. We'll see.

So far I'm still very happy with my purchase - but I've again realized how much better a HOTAS works for me with even the crappiest pedals under my desk. I'm afraid I won't be able to fully appreciate this new stick until I get my Crosswinds - twisty-stick, no matter how well done mechanically, simply doesn't cut it for me.

April 6, 2022

... and one last update after some "real" missions in career mode.

The following mindless praise may be a result of me having to re-learn a lot, thus being able to avoid old habits coming from other sims. Or maybe due to the fact that since I started flying again, I've flown nothing but IL-2, or perhaps that IL-2's flightmodel has changed since I last played the game a few years ago, so perhaps it all needs to be taken with a grain of salt, buuut:

This stick feels awesome! Been flying nothing but the 110 E-2 in BoM after a short, botched, campaign in the 109 E-7 and now started a parallel campaign in BoS with the 190 A-3. First couple of missions were pretty uneventful and in the third one I got one of these weirdly tough free hunt missions the career seems to love to throw at you. It's just you and your wingman (wingleader in my case) against a ton of Soviet fighters. And if you stick to the planned route, you'll probably be screwed since the game makes you fly at ridiculously low altitude and often brings in the opposition with quite a bit of alt-/E-advantage. Plus I had bumped the difficulty from medium to hard for this one, just to see what would happen...

Ran into a flight of four Mig-3s near Stalingrad more or less co-alt, which were shortly joined by a flight of four Yak-1s ... and not only did both my wingleader and I come out alive and (mostly) unscathed but I also bagged three kills. Should've been four but one of the Migs must've managed to land or ditch even though I had turned him into Swiss cheese. I did have to ditch myself, since I got real close to the last dude and probably stayed on the trigger a bit too long. So when he blew up in mid-air, I couldn't dodge his debris. ? Took out my prop, but luckily I managed to glide back over the front and ditch on German territory.

In any case: I don't think the 190 A-3 has ever felt this good to me in IL-2. I remember that I found it a bit of a handful and quite sluggish when I first tried it way back when. Again: Changes in the FM could also be a factor here. However: While I still maintain that the Sidewinder FF2 feels better *to me* physically/mechanically due to its FF-generated spring-force (never used FF for any of the stall/buffeting, etc effects), the VKB seems more precise to me - especially when it comes to smaller corrections. As it well should, considering the difference in technology/resolution. Mechanically, it is still a very good product and I'm really starting to get used to it. If only VKB would send over those missing replacement springs so that I could start messing with the clutch settings.

The only thing that still feels off is the fact that I have to use the twist axis for rudder inputs, which makes precise gunnery very challenging. But I can't blame the stick for that ... all twisty-sticks suck!

Other than that, I couldn't believe how easy it was to actually dogfight in the 190 with this thing - which I did once or twice after only a single opponent remained, stuck to BnZ most of the time. No problem riding the edge of a stall, no problem doing those short, hard, high-G pulls to gain a quick gun solution and other than one accelerated stall that I was able to catch before it really started, I don't think I was ever in danger of losing control by pushing the plane beyond its limits.

All in all, I'm starting to feel quite enthusiastic about this thing and have to wonder if I shouldn't have spent a bit more to go with the Gunfighter. If their plastic entry-level stick is this good, how good must their top-tier stuff be?

S.

April 6, 2022

Wow, comprehensive. I do kind of wish I had this new version instead of the previous version. Mine has the two continuous axis dials on the base instead of the toggle on the left one, which I'd prefer. The stick is awesome though.

I have mine mounted on my desk with this, which I'd highly recommend. It releases and attaches in just a second so that it's not in the way when not flying. And it's very tight after getting the right depth for my desk measured in.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07KJCC4Q7?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Edited April 6, 2022 by unlikely_spider

April 6, 2022

11 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

I have mine mounted on my desk with this, which I'd highly recommend. It releases and attaches in just a second so that it's not in the way when not flying. And it's very tight after getting the right depth for my desk measured in.

That does look pretty interesting, especially for the price. I'll definitely bookmark that thing!

April 6, 2022

1 minute ago, 1Sascha said:

That does look pretty interesting, especially for the price. I'll definitely bookmark that thing!

I used to use a CH stick on my lap, but after upgrading to the VKB, I quickly went to a mount solution. The stiffer springs meant that I was fighting myself just as much, trying to keep the stick stable. If you're having discomfort, maybe a mount would help?

The quick release was mandatory for me, as my PC is not used exclusively for simming.

One note though- I did use a metal cutting disc on my miter saw to cut down the vertical component to make it shorter. It's better for this stick, though now if I ever get anything with an extension I'll have to buy a new mount.

April 6, 2022

Yeah... I'm using Velcro for now which works fine and only cost a few bucks/€s. And since I'm a lefty, it doesn't even interfere with my mouse or anything.

But a more elegant (and adjustable) solution would be nice. The SW is heavy enough and has a wide enough base so this was never a problem with it, but I do need some sort of fixture for the VKB since it's a tad too light and its base-plate is a little too small.

S.

April 6, 2022

I also received the EVO SCG a couple of weeks back, and also came from a very old Sidewinder 2 stick. What an upgrade! Absolutely love using it, and now I am looking towards some of the SEM modules too.

April 6, 2022

5 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

If their plastic entry-level stick is this good, how good must their top-tier stuff be?

Their top level gear is unsurpassed, simply put. ??

April 8, 2022

Well, I guess visual proof speaks for itself... ?

I had forgotten about the 500MB cutoff thing with IL-2's mission recorder, so the later parts of the mission are missing. You might also want to jump to 3:30 for first enemy contact if taking off/climbing towards the objective isn't your thing. HD version of the video is still being processed as I'm typing this ... 360p is up but not really useful...

This is a career mission, flown (mostly) with icons on (sue me) so this is how I recorded it. Gotta tweak those icons and, if possible, get rid of the ghastly "this way to the enemy" arrows. Sad thing is, is that I thought I could do without icons now in 1440p and on a 32 inch screen, but even with my reading glasses on, I find it too stressful for a quick afternoon career-mission. Everything else (FM, DM, gunnery, etc) is set to realistic.

The only real reason why I uploaded the vid is that I still can't believe how good the 190 feels with this stick and wanted to share that with more than just words. Please remember that I'm having to use the silly twist-axis for my rudder and that, until recently, I hadn't done any simming in over two years. And yet ...

S.

Edited April 8, 2022 by 1Sascha

April 12, 2022

Wanted to say thanks for this thread. Your review inspired me to go ahead and pull the trigger (haha!) on a Gladiator NXT with the KG-12 grip. Went ahead and bought a Logitech throttle quadrant too...and now a TIR5 and Predator mount for the Gladiator are on the way. The missus doesn't thank you for the added expense, but I'm thoroughly enjoying myself.

April 12, 2022

34 minutes ago, co199 said:

The missus doesn't thank you for the added expense, but I'm thoroughly enjoying myself.

As long as you don't expect me to cover your legal bills when she demands a divorce ...

BTW: I just realized that I brought up the "short or long screws?"-first-world-problem, but never mentioned the solution. Use the set of shorter screws to fix the grip to the base. The longer ones are supposedly there to use if you overtighten the short ones and mess up the holes in the process. Only then would you need the longer ones. No idea how the screws' added length would help if you messed up their holes/threads, but that's what VKB told me on their forum.

S.

Edited April 12, 2022 by 1Sascha

April 14, 2022

This might be interesting to some folks, so ...

Contacted VKB about a small-hands hand-rest for the KG12, but they say they don't offer that for this stick (Eduard said he would forward my suggestion within the company though). So I had to think of something not quite as rough as what I had on there before ... preferably without the need for gaffer-tape, too.

This is the best I could come up with so far:

Bought a pack of those magic eraser /sponge thingies and it turned out their consistency and relative hardness (for a sponge) are actually pretty good for this purpose. Took a sharp knife to carve myself a piece out of one, then sliced it down to size until it had the right height for my hand. Fixed that to the stick with one of the simple velcro cable-ties that came with my PSU et... voilà!

It's still not pretty, but not only does it do its job ... it also sits on there much more securely, it won't leave sticky stuff behind on the plastic and it feels surprisingly good.

Patent pending of course. I expect at least six figures (€, not Rubles) once VKB come knocking on my door to buy the rights for this one. ?

S.

April 15, 2022

Hi @1Sascha.
Have you reprogrammed any of the LEDs or SHIFT mode yet? I am not actually sure I need to use the SHIFT mode as I still keep a lot of single-press events on my keyboard (gears, dive brakes, etc etc), but I think it may be useful to switch between bomb or rocket configuration at the least.

I love this stick!

April 15, 2022

22 minutes ago, Leifr said:

Have you reprogrammed any of the LEDs or SHIFT mode yet? I am not actually sure I need to use the SHIFT mode as I still keep a lot of single-press events on my keyboard (gears, dive brakes, etc etc), but I think it may be useful to switch between bomb or rocket configuration at the least.

Duuuh... I hadn't even thought of that, thanks for pointing me to that possibility.

I do use all the stick's base buttons and sliders now (as stated in my edit in the first post), but since I also have a TM throttle, I hadn't felt the need for more stick-buttons (or throttle-buttons) yet. Well, one more stick-button to drop bombs would be nice to have ... got that mapped to the throttle ATM.

But all that will probably change once I fire up DCS for the first time with the new setup.

Do you need to use their software to set up different modes or can you switch on the fly with some sort of key-combo?

I did look a tiny bit further into their software after I had used it to calibrate the stick, but most of the functions are labeled rather cryptically and there's just so much stuff in there. Got scared, didn't want to mess anything up and so I've been sticking with Joy2Key for now for my customization needs.

Although... I only use one custom function on the stick (pinky is a toggle now to switch IL-2's gunsight view on and off) and everything else is stock. But once I get back into the A-10, I guess I'll be desperately looking for more buttons, so ...

S.

Edited April 15, 2022 by 1Sascha

April 15, 2022

1 hour ago, 1Sascha said:

...(pinky is a toggle now to switch IL-2's gunsight view on and off)...

Holy crap, this is genius...been looking for a good method to switch between snap views in the German birds while I wait for my TIR...can't believe I didn't think of this. Thanks!

April 15, 2022

44 minutes ago, co199 said:

Holy crap, this is genius...been looking for a good method to switch between snap views in the German birds while I wait for my TIR...can't believe I didn't think of this. Thanks!

Glad to be of service. Although I'd rather have the game offer a simple "make this switch a toggle-switch"-function in the settings.

Slight caveat: The toggle-function via Joy2Key seems to cause minor problems (pretty rarely though). For one thing, when the toggle is "on", certain keyboard keys won't work (sometimes? all the time? not sure). Like ESC to get to the menu or the function-keys to send hand-signals or radio orders (tilde-key still works to open comms-menu though, weird).

I also think that it plays a role in the very rare instances when I lose headtracking via Opentrack for some reason. It will still work in Opentrack itself, but the game suddenly stops recognizing that input to move the head around. Seems to happen when I switch the sight on and off a lot in a short period of time and/or when I use it while on the in-flight map or something. Nothing major and with a bit of "button-discipline" I usually don't run into this issue at all.

S.

April 15, 2022

Nice! I actually use the hat on the stick for looking around - up = KP5, which in the 109 and 190 I have the view centered and raised off the gunsight. L = KP4, R=KP6, Back = KP2. Using your method, I put the pinky switch on KP., which in this case is gunsight, zoomed in a little. My TIR5 should be here shortly so I'll just need the reset at that point, but that's a great method. Thanks again for the tip.

April 15, 2022

29 minutes ago, co199 said:

My TIR5 should be here shortly so I'll just need the reset at that point, but that's a great method.

Your life... well, your virtual flying experience, is about to change pretty radically. I take it this is your first time with TIR/headtracking, so my advice is: Stick with it through the first few days or weeks. It will probably feel odd at first and you might even start thinking about going back to hats and keys.

Don't!

It'll take a while to get used to, but after that you'll wonder how you've ever flown without it.

S.

April 15, 2022

Thanks, I'm very much looking forward to it.

Also, to your comments about the 190 - I concur that it's a lot easier to ride the edge of a stall with this joystick. Previously for me it was the buffeting sound and then immediate death as I fell out of the sky because I insist on yanking and banking the FW...but with this stick, it's a lot easier to ride the buffet and just squeak in those hard pulls.

April 15, 2022

3 hours ago, 1Sascha said:

Slight caveat: The toggle-function via Joy2Key seems to cause minor problems (pretty rarely though). For one thing, when the toggle is "on", certain keyboard keys won't work (sometimes? all the time? not sure). Like ESC to get to the menu or the function-keys to send hand-signals or radio orders (tilde-key still works to open comms-menu though, weird).

Probable due the use of L-Shift in the ON and OFF command in JoyToKey, so when used the L-Shift is always pressed.

Test adding a simple key for the command - don't need erase the default L-Shift 1, and use this key in JoyToKey.

April 15, 2022

1 hour ago, Sokol1 said:

Probable due the use of L-Shift in the ON and OFF command in JoyToKey, so when used the L-Shift is always pressed.

Test adding a simple key for the command - don't need erase the default L-Shift 1, and use this key in JoyToKey.

Hmm.. I'm pretty sure that it already is a simple keypress like that. If I had assigned L-Shift to it, it would look like this:

Like it says in the text in the middle: For key-combos you assign the modifiers you need (Shift, ALT, etc) and the keystroke into those four slots on the left and J2K will execute those keystrokes top to bottom when you press the joystick-button. Here: "L-Shift" -> "Numpad ,"

If I only have one key in there and the other three fields set to "none", it will just be a simple, unmodified keypress. Only if I had clicked the "Assign" button would L-Shift (or whatever is shown in the field under "assign special key codes") actually appear in one of the four fields on the far left.

I'm not sure what the problem is, but I suspect that IL-2 is partially to blame as well, getting "confused" by my attempts at customization.. ? Plus it only happens very rarely and, so far, could always be fixed by respawning.

S.

April 15, 2022

Understand.

I've tried JoyToKey several times in Bo'X' and is not always consistently, specially if the command involve modifiers (Alt, Ctrl, Shift).

A pity because the JoyToKey is very simple and easy to use, and allows to generate keypress in the axes, what "low profile"* alternatives like RSmapper don't allow.

*Keymapper that runs without requiring installation, opposite to Joystick Gremlin and the dreaded vJoy.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Sokol1

April 16, 2022

9 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

I've tried JoyToKey several times in Bo'X' and is not always consistently, specially if the command involve modifiers (Alt, Ctrl, Shift).

I can't be 100% certain of this, but I've used Joy2Key in other games in the past and I *think* IL-2 has so far been the only one that gave me any trouble with it. Again: If you can call it trouble at all, since it happens so rarely.

17 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

so when used the L-Shift is always pressed.

I have no idea how any of these "behind the scenes"-things work, but I'm fairly certain that there's more to joy2key than just pressing and holding a keyboard-key. When I open a text editor and push my modded toggle button, I'll get one character for each activation- even if I leave the toggle on. Not line after line of ",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,". ?

So, I guess, it's not like it's trying to send constant "Numpad ,"-presses to the PC while the toggle is active. Plus most other keys still work fine with the toggle on, so .... ?‍♂️

S.

Edited April 16, 2022 by 1Sascha

April 17, 2022

Time to ditch Joy2Key ... at least for the toggle function on the VKB-stick. Let's see if that cures those occasional glitches I'm getting in IL-2. I do suspect that the toggle-function is to blame, but I can't be sure.

Anyway... here's a how-to for turning a button into a toggle-switch, over on VKB's board:

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6515#p54439

All you need is VKB's joystick/controller software, which you can grab on their site or HERE .

No way to customize my Thrustmaster throttle with the VKB software, but I wasn't really expecting that to be possible.

Takes about a minute, but with all those acronyms their software uses and the ton of different functions you can assign to buttons in there, I don't think I would've figured this one out on my own.

Added bonus: Since the joystick itself now sends the pinky-button as a toggled on/off button-press, there's no more "modified/altered keyboard command"-workaround involved here. Meaning I can directly use "joy2, button5" for the gunsight-view in the game's key mapper. Which might also help to reduce weird behavior in-game.

It seems that this change is written into the stick's on-board memory, so no need to open up a piece of software every time you want to go flying. Plus the button will behave as a toggle now "forever" so long as you don't undo the change in the VKB software. Just to make sure, I did reboot my PC after I set up the button as a toggle and it still worked as expected after I re-booted the system.

S.

Edited April 17, 2022 by 1Sascha

April 18, 2022

EDIT to add a shoutout to @Leifr

... and I even got the LED on the base to act as an indicator for the toggle switch. Toggle On = red LED lights up and stays on until Toogle Off.

Don't ask me how much time and how many curses it took to figure this one out... but it did work once I found a step-by-step guide and, naturally, turned out to be quite simple *if* you know what all the relevant terms and and switches in the VKB software mean/do.

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6515&p=54586#p54586

^ my last post in there has the details and a link to this here how-to-video:

S.

Edited April 20, 2022 by 1Sascha

May 1, 2022

... and since I've turned this into a blog already, here's another bit of info that might be useful to others.

I just finished the awkward process of adjusting the height of my Ikea Utespelare gaming desk. Without help, it involves using my head and shoulder to keep the table from crashing to the floor while I'm adjusting it, but at least it *has* height adjustment ... ? . Highly recommended product BTW, even though it's now 30 or 40 Euro more expensive than when I bought it back in March. Anyway: When I first assembled the desk, I had it at 72cm height, then I increased that but went too far to 76cm. And because I was too lazy to re-adjust, I just left it there.

But since I'm optimistic that my MFG pedals will arrive next week, and 76cm would've been too high to get a good seating position for pedal operation, I bit the bullet, undid the bolts, balanced the desktop on my head (I *was* smart enough to take the PC off the desk before I did this, but not smart enough to also remove the monitor ? ) and re-adjusted the table to 74cm height.

I suspected that a slightly lower height would also help with joystick feel, since I am, as mentioned, a little peculiar when it comes to even minor changes in seating position and ergonomics. After adjusting the chair and its armrests to the new height, it's almost like I'm dealing with a whole new, and much better, setup. Stick and throttle - but also keyboard and mouse - feel so much more natural to me now and the Gladiator pretty much falls into my right hand as if it was tailored to my needs. Flew a couple of offline missions and control is now even better than before.

S.

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