Flight stick recommendations

[thrila]

Hi all,

 

I've had a CH fighterstick for 6 years and it is on its last legs with occasional spiking and also uncontrolled inputs when the stick is centred.

 

I've mainly had CH sticks over the last 20 years, however I've had issues with my last one (that I fixed myself), and with one prior that I had to return to the seller. Because of this, I don't intend on buying another. 

 

I've previously owned a Thrustmaster Warthog that was so poor I went back to owning a CH stick. I spent months trying to get around the 'stiction' problems with the Warthog by buying new springs, new grease and an extension without ever resolving it.  Quite frankly, it was the worst stick I have ever purchased which was why I returned to CH products.

 

I do like the overall grip of the CH fighterstick, something similar would be ideal. Any recommendations? I'm aware of virpil \ vkb, however I'd like to hear peoples experiences regarding them or any other sticks for that matter.

 

Regards,

Thrila

[messsucher]

Gunfighter Mk. III and be done with the sticks.

[kissTheSky]

4 minutes ago, messsucher said:

Gunfighter Mk. III and be done with the sticks.

Pretty much this. As I keep saying, it is not cheap, but it is worth every penny. Especially with the all metal ultimate grip. It is a thing to behold.

[cardboard_killer]

I had one of these for the longest time; it was built like a tank.

Since then I've had junk in the 00s, then a VKB Gladiator II, which I liked very much, but upgraded recently to a VKB Gunfighter. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for a mount, as the one a seller sent me was missing parts. While the Gladiator II is a great stick, it does not replicate the button placement of the CH Fighterstick at all. If you have money to burn, the Warthog grip on the VKB (or is it Virpil?) base seems to be a popular choice, and matches up well with the CH grip.

[dburne]

Just now, kissTheSky said:

Pretty much this. As I keep saying, it is not cheap, but it is worth every penny. Especially with the all metal ultimate grip. It is a thing to behold.

 

Yep fully agree.

I personally have Gunfighter Mk III Pro with Ultimate Grip for my stick, and Virpil CM3 for my Throttle. Absolutely love them both.

[Sokol1]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:06 PM, thrila said:

I do like the overall grip of the CH fighterstick, something similar would be ideal. 

 

Actually you have very good - and expensive; options from VKB, VirPil and WingWing (this last more "jet" oriented), with features above Tm Warthog. 

 

Being VKB Gunfighter base with MCG grip, Virpil T50 CM base or WarBRD, with T50CM or Alpha grip options with more functions (more HAT's, mini-stick, analog brake lever...) than the "F-16'ish" grip of CH F-16 Fighterstick.

 

But, if you just want to spend in CH price range, have the VKB NXT as option - too with more functions in the grip than CH F-16 Fighterstick.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Sokol1

[Dallas88B]

@thrila I recently took delivery of the Gunfighter Mk.III Modern Combat Edition Ultimate with Twist. I have had the TM Warthog since 2018 and its been a fine stick (and still works well) but this GF MCE is a very noticeable improvement.

I don't use the twist (crosswinds) so I locked that out.

The stick is just so smooth in pitch and roll it makes flying vastly better... it was expensive but I don't regret its purchase for a second ... I  fully expect to get many years out of it.

dburn did a good write up on this forum a while ago and its well worth a read.

I went crazy and ordered the Virpil CM3 Throttle to replace the Warthog Throttle too. Upgrading is quite rewarding.

 

Having said that the VKB NXT is a good choice too (it gets a great write up most everywhere) and is considerably less expensive. There is the Gladiator NXT Premium and the Gladiator NXT Standard - I reckon its worth the little extra for the premium version. Good comparison here https://vkb-sim.com.au/pages/gladiator-nxt-standard-vs-premium-comparison

I follow Der Sheriff on YT (some really good IL2 videos) and he uses the Gladiator NXT - I doubt he would use it if its not up to par.

VKB also do GNX modules like Throttle quadrant, side extension modules etc. Worth a look too.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Dallas88B

[slikslik]

I too have the Gunfighter MK3 with the 200mm extension and 4 grips.  Best damn joystick I've ever used.  I have the Sidewinder FFB as well, and that stick is my "Collecters Item".  Overall though, VKB is, in my opinion, the way to go. 

[HankCzinaski]

My thoughts on 3 joysticks that I own/owned:

Thrustmaster Warthog - great feel but too stiff and too high for desk use; could be great on a mount and with an extension

TM T.1600M - good joystick overall but lacks hats (has only 1...), also twist axis stopped working after light usage and from what I read it's a common problem

VKB NXT - my current joy; precise and smooth input, ergonomic for my hand; can't see and downsides apart from price (marketed as entry-level; yeah 200 euro entry-level my a**)

[messsucher]

Go Legendary Forgotten Old School.

 

[Algy-Lacey]

This thread has come at the perfect time for me!

 

I am looking to upgrade imminently.

 

Back in the day I used to have a CH Flightstick Pro, lacking in buttons but very nice light spring tension and a long travel (side to side) with smooth response. Loved it, but after a few years, first a spring broke so that elevator was 'floppy' and then the potentiometers started spiking.

 

My current stick is a TM T.16000m and for it's price point it's great. Being a VR user I don't miss additional hat switches and the extra buttons at the base mean I can assign all of the important controls. It has 3 buttons and a hat switch on the top of the stick, a single trigger and then 12 buttons on the base, plus a throttle / mixture / whatever axis. Twist rudder has a very small travel and isn't exactly precise. But the sticks' contactless sensors mean that, even though mine is dusty and old, it is still smooth and doesn't spike. I pair this stick with a Saitek Throttle Quadrant which gives me 3 axis for Throttle / Prop / Trim and 6 more buttons for engine related controls.

 

I am looking to upgrade to a stick with an extension for a more realistic feel. This means I won't have the buttons on the base of the stick that I would have if I went for a VKB Gladiator.

 

For me, cost is primary, so I was thinking of a Thrustmaster Warthog stick (only, no throttle) with an extension, which I have seen sold recently on Ebay for about £160 / $215. The issue I have is lack of buttons, the Warthog stick seems to only have 2 buttons on the top of the stick, plus a four way Hat and an 8 way Hat, plus a button on the right side and a thumb switch. So that's 6 controls, plus a trigger, not enough for me for VR, so a button box would be another addition to this setup.

 

If I could afford it, I would also go for a VKB Gunfighter III MCG setup, it has lots of Hat's and Sticks that also have a push 'button' function. I love the two stage trigger and brake axis, but at £440 / $600, I just can't rationalize spending that much.

 

Someone is selling a used VKB SCG 'Kosmosima' grip for £70 and I can get a new Gunfighter Mk III base from VKB for £200 / $268, so this is the compromise that I will probably make. The SCG has less buttons than the MCG Pro, but this combo is a full £170 cheaper.

 

I would consider Virpil, but apparantly they are not so good with an extension, save the Mongoose grip with TM Warthog base.

 

The other thing I am wanting to know is how does the Spring tension compare between the TM Warthog and the VKB Gunfighter? I like a light stick that has one spring for the elevator and another spring for the ailerons. The sticks with one spring for both, I find I accidentally put in some elevator when I'm rolling and add aileron when pulling back, if that makes sense. Incidentally, being mostly a Spitfire (armchair) pilot, I like the idea of having heavier springs for the Aileron axis and light springs for the elevator, which I believe would be possible with the VKB Gunfighter.

 

Sorry for the essay-length reply!

Looking forward to seeing what people like in their flight gear.

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

 

17 hours ago, Dallas88B said:

dburn did a good write up on this forum a while ago and its well worth a read.

 

Thanks for that, found it and I'm reading it now ?

[kissTheSky]

2 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

This thread has come at the perfect time for me!

 

I am looking to upgrade imminently.

 

Back in the day I used to have a CH Flightstick Pro, lacking in buttons but very nice light spring tension and a long travel (side to side) with smooth response. Loved it, but after a few years, first a spring broke so that elevator was 'floppy' and then the potentiometers started spiking.

 

My current stick is a TM T.16000m and for it's price point it's great. Being a VR user I don't miss additional hat switches and the extra buttons at the base mean I can assign all of the important controls. It has 3 buttons and a hat switch on the top of the stick, a single trigger and then 12 buttons on the base, plus a throttle / mixture / whatever axis. Twist rudder has a very small travel and isn't exactly precise. But the sticks' contactless sensors mean that, even though mine is dusty and old, it is still smooth and doesn't spike. I pair this stick with a Saitek Throttle Quadrant which gives me 3 axis for Throttle / Prop / Trim and 6 more buttons for engine related controls.

 

I am looking to upgrade to a stick with an extension for a more realistic feel. This means I won't have the buttons on the base of the stick that I would have if I went for a VKB Gladiator.

 

For me, cost is primary, so I was thinking of a Thrustmaster Warthog stick (only, no throttle) with an extension, which I have seen sold recently on Ebay for about £160 / $215. The issue I have is lack of buttons, the Warthog stick seems to only have 2 buttons on the top of the stick, plus a four way Hat and an 8 way Hat, plus a button on the right side and a thumb switch. So that's 6 controls, plus a trigger, not enough for me for VR, so a button box would be another addition to this setup.

 

If I could afford it, I would also go for a VKB Gunfighter III MCG setup, it has lots of Hat's and Sticks that also have a push 'button' function. I love the two stage trigger and brake axis, but at £440 / $600, I just can't rationalize spending that much.

 

Someone is selling a used VKB SCG 'Kosmosima' grip for £70 and I can get a new Gunfighter Mk III base from VKB for £200 / $268, so this is the compromise that I will probably make. The SCG has less buttons than the MCG Pro, but this combo is a full £170 cheaper.

 

I would consider Virpil, but apparantly they are not so good with an extension, save the Mongoose grip with TM Warthog base.

 

The other thing I am wanting to know is how does the Spring tension compare between the TM Warthog and the VKB Gunfighter? I like a light stick that has one spring for the elevator and another spring for the ailerons. The sticks with one spring for both, I find I accidentally put in some elevator when I'm rolling and add aileron when pulling back, if that makes sense. Incidentally, being mostly a Spitfire (armchair) pilot, I like the idea of having heavier springs for the Aileron axis and light springs for the elevator, which I believe would be possible with the VKB Gunfighter.

 

Sorry for the essay-length reply!

Looking forward to seeing what people like in their flight gear.

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

 

 

Thanks for that, found it and I'm reading it now ?

I think your compromise setup sounds good. As far as spring tension goes, GF Mk III is extremely and very easily customizable.  They send enough springs that, you can have one side as heavy as lead, and the other as melted butter. Accidental roll input hardly happens to me with equal tension on roll and pitch. 

[LukeFF]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:23 AM, kissTheSky said:

Pretty much this. As I keep saying, it is not cheap, but it is worth every penny. Especially with the all metal ultimate grip. It is a thing to behold.

 

Yep, I love it as well. Solid, well-built, and it has all the buttons I'd ever need. VKB's upcoming revision to their KG 12 stick is mighty tempting, but it still suffers from the same problem that all WWII-style sticks have - not enough buttons.

Edited February 14, 2022 by LukeFF

[kissTheSky]

7 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yep, I love it as well. Solid, well-built, and it has all the buttons I'd ever need. VKB's upcoming revision to their KG 12 stick is mighty tempting, but it still suffers from the same problem that all WWII-style sticks have - not enough buttons.

Honestly, if it wasn’t for the recalibration every time grip is changed, I’d have gotten even the old one just for vanity, but like you said, not enough buttons. 

[rieper_420]

Hello fellow pilots.

 

My experiences so far:

 

I got the VKB NXT for 180€ about 10 months ago: I love the haptics and the smoothness and the buttons!

 

However, from a self made buttkicker I came to simshaker and by that became aware of again force feedback joysticks.

 

I just got my very own Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 for 60€ and the immersion you get is incredible!

Compared to the stick of the VKB NXT it feels like a toy, though - the buttons are barely enough for WW2 flying - flying modern jets or choppers in 'the other sim' will not be fun with that few buttons...

The MS FFB2 feels less accurate than the VKM NXT due to the FFB gears, though...

 

I prefer flying in VR with the sidewinder FFB2 - the panic feeling I get when the plane starts to stall is awesome!

That feeling is not there when flying with non FFB stick.

 

Now I am planning to merge the force feedback base with an old CH F16 combatstick creating my own Frankenwinder.

(building a modular MSFFB2 base with replaceable modern grip or KG12 is my long term dream currently)

 

Recommendation: buy a used Sidewinder FFB2 on Ebay for <70€ ?

 

Cheers

Rieper

Edited February 15, 2022 by rieper_420

[thrila]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

I'm thinking of going down the VKB route, however I need to do a little more research to decide if I want to go for the VKB NXT or the Gunfighter III. I do like the look of both.

 

One question I have regarding the Gunfighters III is how easy is it to add/remove the extension? I assume it is fairly straight forward like it is for the Thrustmaster Warthog. If I go for the Gunfighter III 'm not sure if I'd want the extension or not until I used it.  If I went ahead with the Gunfighter III I would look to get it with the 20 cm extension and removing it if it didn't work out.

 

Regards,

Thrila

 

 

[kissTheSky]

41 minutes ago, thrila said:

Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

I'm thinking of going down the VKB route, however I need to do a little more research to decide if I want to go for the VKB NXT or the Gunfighter III. I do like the look of both.

 

One question I have regarding the Gunfighters III is how easy is it to add/remove the extension? I assume it is fairly straight forward like it is for the Thrustmaster Warthog. If I go for the Gunfighter III 'm not sure if I'd want the extension or not until I used it.  If I went ahead with the Gunfighter III I would look to get it with the 20 cm extension and removing it if it didn't work out.

 

Regards,

Thrila

 

 

It’s very easy. You can remove it under a minute. 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I purchased Virpil throttle and joystick in 2018.  All I can say, from my experience, is stay away from it.  Dead and jumpy axes, required self repairs, complex software for calibration and firmware updates.  The latest straw is having to unplug and re-plug the USB to the joystick after each start/restart of the computer. 

 

The hardware is less than 4 years old.  Not a happy camper.  As much as I hate to, will need to replace it soon.

[No_85_Gramps]

1 hour ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

I purchased Virpil throttle and joystick in 2018.  All I can say, from my experience, is stay away from it.  Dead and jumpy axes, required self repairs, complex software for calibration and firmware updates.  The latest straw is having to unplug and re-plug the USB to the joystick after each start/restart of the computer. 

 

The hardware is less than 4 years old.  Not a happy camper.  As much as I hate to, will need to replace it soon.

Sorry to hear of your problems. Except for the firmware updates, which can be troublesome, I have had only one button fail on a grip. I have the base, grip, and throttle from the first editions they made, and except for the button, I have had absolutely no problems. No bad or jumpy axes and no need to re-plug anything.  

[Cynic_Al]

On 2/13/2022 at 5:06 PM, thrila said:

I've had a CH fighterstick for 6 years and it is on its last legs with occasional spiking and also uncontrolled inputs when the stick is centred.

 

Nothing at that price point should be using potentiometers, which I assume must be the case both from the symptoms and the fact their current advertising fails to boast of anything else.  It's always frustrating to read about peripherals expiring for this reason, when they could be revived relatively easily.  Adapting for Hall sensors isn't a straight swap, but for a practical person quite achievable.

[thrila]

20 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

It’s very easy. You can remove it under a minute. 

Thanks.

 

Yeah, I agree cynic. At the time I was so frustrated about how poor the Warthog stick was I went back to what I previously owned.

 

Stick, I can empathise. It sounds like you're having a similar nightmare I had with my Warthog.

 

I've 90% made up my mind on getting the Gunfighter III with a 20cm extension. 

[BladeMeister]

23 hours ago, thrila said:

Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

I'm thinking of going down the VKB route, however I need to do a little more research to decide if I want to go for the VKB NXT or the Gunfighter III. I do like the look of both.

 

One question I have regarding the Gunfighters III is how easy is it to add/remove the extension? I assume it is fairly straight forward like it is for the Thrustmaster Warthog. If I go for the Gunfighter III 'm not sure if I'd want the extension or not until I used it.  If I went ahead with the Gunfighter III I would look to get it with the 20 cm extension and removing it if it didn't work out.

 

Regards,

Thrila

 

 

As long as you get a proper desk drop mount (monster tech) or make a raised floor mount you will love the GF III  with the 200mm extension. There is no way to describe it, but the extension is the best part to be added as an upgrade to the desktop GF III. I will always use a long extension from now on. IT IS THAT GOOD. ? Your wallet may regret it, but YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT.

 

S!Blade<><

[Panzerlang]

I have a Virpil stick; the heavy-duty base, 200mm curved extension and the WW2 grip and am very happy with it all so far. 

[Sokol1]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:24 PM, Cynic_Al said:

Quote

  On 2/13/2022 at 2:06 PM, thrila said:

I've had a CH fighterstick for 6 years and it is on its last legs with occasional spiking and also uncontrolled inputs when the stick is centred.

Nothing at that price point should be using potentiometers, which I assume must be the case both from the symptoms and the fact their current advertising fails to boast of anything else.  It's always frustrating to read about peripherals expiring for this reason, when they could be revived relatively easily.  Adapting for Hall sensors isn't a straight swap, but for a practical person quite achievable.

 

 

BTW - Exist 3rd part "drop in" upgrade for CH sticks, that replace potentiomter with contactles sensor "magnetoresistence (KMZ41 - similar to the ones used in GLV224 and Kontorini Kone throttles), and (optional) upgrade for the obsolete 8 bits (256 "steeps" on axis) CH USB controller, repalcing then with a 10/12 controller. All require basically a Philips screwdriver for install.  Made by rel4y from Germany, see this topic:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/214485-ch-products-upgrades/

Edited February 20, 2022 by Sokol1

[impulse200]

5 часов назад, Sokol1 сказал:

All require basically a Philips screwdriver for install

Hi.
Even for controller replacement?

[rieper_420]

I propose to do the following:

 

Keep the CH Fighterstick grip,  board and merge it with a MS Sidewinder FFB2.

=> that way you get rid of the spiky axis etc.

I just completed my Frankenwinder by using a Thrustmaster FLCS stick.

This replaces my VKB Gladiator NXT which is boring as it has no FFB...

 

 

 

Before you throw out your CH Fighterstick, send it over to me please, I would love to have a backup stick in case something breaks ?

 

Cheers

Rieper

Edited February 23, 2022 by rieper_420

[Sokol1]

On 2/20/2022 at 4:28 AM, impulse200 said:

Hi.
Even for controller replacement?

 

Yes, you need the Philips screwdriver for remove the unique screw that hold the original controller board, put the new board in the place and fit he screw again.

 

Then is just matter of plug the original connectors for axis, buttons... in the new controller board, a ~5 minutes job.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Sokol1

[Giggles]

I learned about authenti kit here today, and well have many questions.. 

 

its apparently good, and far less costly then the rest.. yet its still a community project thats growing... next up a p40 stick. 

 

I dont need hats on the stick, dont use the hat switch on the t16000m. 

   sort of wondering if i can map the spitfire sight adjustments to it. 

 

but the ergonomics are everything as i seem to have a tendency to be happiest holding the stick with my hand cupped on the top sort of like a spit fire column

 

[von_Tom]

On 2/14/2022 at 7:30 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

 

I would consider Virpil, but apparantly they are not so good with an extension, save the Mongoose grip with TM Warthog base.

 

 

I use the T-50CM2 base with an extension and a Warthog grip, and it works fine.

 

von Tom

[thrila]

Update

 

I bought a Gunfighter III with the MCG Ultimate grip and a 10 cm extension. .

 

I ended up removing the switch at the top on the right side of the stick. I typically grip stick using my thumb and forefinger on the top of the stick and that switch has sharp edges that was digging into hand. I will either tape over where the switch was or file down the edges of the switch. Due to my grip I find the top of the stick a bit too bulky for my liking but manageable. 

 

The movement of the stick is very smooth, so I'm very happy with it. I am using the original springs at present and it is very light, however not unpleasantly so and the stick still recentres. I haven't developed muscle memory for the feel of the stick yet, so at the moment I am inducing a small input of roll when applying elevator and vice versa. I have increased the dead zone in order to reduce this, however long term I will likely install one of the stronger springs that also came with the stick.

 

Overall I'm pleased with the purchase.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

 

 

[Sokol1]

On 2/13/2022 at 2:06 PM, thrila said:

I've had a CH fighterstick for 6 years and it is on its last legs with occasional spiking and also uncontrolled inputs when the stick is centred.

 

Just in case, as the mechanical parts of CH's are made for last "centuries".

 

This spikes means that potentiometers resistive track are dirt an/or wear out, you can buy replacement in Digikey - $3,58.

 

And have option for upgrade for contacless sensor sell by Rel4y in DCS forum, as well upgrade the main USB controller for 10/12 bits (CH use a obsolete 1999's 8 bits controller).

[1Sascha]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:09 PM, rieper_420 said:

Compared to the stick of the VKB NXT it feels like a toy, though - the buttons are barely enough for WW2 flying - flying modern jets or choppers in 'the other sim' will not be fun with that few buttons...

 

That's why folks used to build this sort of Franken-Stick:

 

 

 

S.

Edited March 15, 2022 by 1Sascha

[kissTheSky]

As @dburne says, “you’re in for a treat” @thrila!

 

Go ahead and put the heavier springs in. Especially with the extension, what was a “light” default factory spring set without any extensions have been even lighter and will need changing. I recommend you start with the #50 and add additional spring after testing it for a while. 
 

If I remember correctly, I was on the #40 springs without any extension and now that I’m on 20 cm extension, two #40 per axis are lighter than one #40 per axis without extension used to feel.