Flying Circus Future

[BraveSirRobin]

4 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

so they know that there is an interest for the Tarnopol/Galicia map and Italian Front map and aircraft.

 

I'm almost certain that they are aware that approximately 15 people want those maps.  Hopefully the appropriate development decisions will be made regarding this information. 

[Jackfraser24]

4 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I'm almost certain that they are aware that approximately 15 people want those maps.  Hopefully the appropriate development decisions will be made regarding this information. 

I guess I am one of those 15 or so people. But I am also one of the people who believe that development of Flying Circus is done and dusted.

[Enceladus828]

5 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I'm almost certain that they are aware that approximately 15 people want those maps.  Hopefully the appropriate development decisions will be made regarding this information. 

That's probably the same amount of people who wanted Korea after BoN 😆

[Russkly]

12 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Honestly, we can't expect the developers to share market research... or the reasoning for their decisions. It is fascinating when they do share - but expecting any company to openly share trade secrets... is expecting something which goes beyond what is usually done.

 

Absolutely correct.  We certainly can't expect them to share their market research (as fascinating as that would be).

 

What I was enquiring about was their market research methodology given that Luke's comment indicated that the forums are not a source of market input and that in 25-odd years of Il2 I can't recall any reach-outs from 1C or its iterations to the customer base about the product and any respective development plans.

 

You can't get numbers for this segment from Euromonitor, and I can't imagine that there are any off-the-shelf market reports, so, unless they're paying for bespoke market segment research, how do they assess their markets to drive development decisions?

 

I'm a market strategy person, so I'm interested in this professionally as well as personally as a gamer.

 

[Russkly]

12 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

If there is one then you'll know when we announce it. 🙂

I'm not trying to be snarky with you guys, but what we have announced for Flying Circus is it for now, outside of potential revisions to flight models and stuff like that. The team is fully engaged on getting Korea and the remaining WWII GB content ready right now, and beyond that, Pacific has already been planned as the first title on the revised engine. That's the roadmap for now.

 

@LukeFF Do please keep us updated re: any further work on "flight models and stuff like that".

 

It may well help 1CGS sell a few more copies of FC4.

[Zooropa_Fly]

13 hours ago, LukeFF said:

I'm not trying to be snarky with you guys

 

Time you were.

 

Jack, you're trolling at this point.

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, Russkly said:

What I was enquiring about was their market research methodology given that Luke's comment indicated that the forums are not a source of market input and that in 25-odd years of Il2 I can't recall any reach-outs from 1C or its iterations to the customer base about the product and any respective development plans.

 

From their (old) documentary, it seems that they put a decent amount of effort into being present at Russian events and interacting personally with Russian fans. If you want to hear more about what they do at those events, you probably have to go to the Russian forum.

 

And I'm sure that like most companies they weigh their sales data most heavily, as that provides the most important information, because what people say they are interested in, is often not what they'll actually buy.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

I agree that forum polls are not a reliable source of info to determine future directions, but I've wondered :

 

They have the email address of everyone who has purchased the game. They are able to send us notices of sales, new products,  etc.  They are able to put up info pages when you load the game for the 1st time after a big update.  Why don't they initiate a controlled poll to all owners of the game regarding "what interests you", "what would you like to see next"?  Would not be that difficult.   And imo would give them some very useful information (assuming people would respond).. 

I think many would respond.

[BraveSirRobin]

7 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

That's probably the same amount of people who wanted Korea after BoN 😆

Probably not, since they’re doing Korea and not WW1 Italy or Galicia.

[Zooropa_Fly]

The occasional forum poll wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

I think it's fairly well accepted that a majority of gamers don't participate in forums - that fact alone would determine that Devs would proportionally consider forum opinion within a bigger picture of factors in determining future development.

Perceived 'demand' on here is factually correct, but one person desiring something has technically created a 'demand'.

It's not that there is a demand, it's how much demand there is.

 

No idea personally how future development is determined, but in addition to giving forum voices a little weight, I'd imagine they'd look at wider gaming trends, the direction the competition are going in, and more stuff I probably can't think of.

I expect the preferences and fancies of those directly involved would play a part as well.

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Probably not, since they’re doing Korea and not WW1 Italy or Galicia.

Don’t know what you’re going on about with that. This poll shows that most people were interested in the PTO of WW2 or Sicily after BoN with only a sliver interested in Korea, but hey, that’s where the next installment will be. Just because the community may not be that interested in something doesn’t mean in cannot happen.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

5 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

Don’t know what you’re going on about with that. This poll shows that most people were interested in the PTO of WW2 or Sicily after BoN with only a sliver interested in Korea, but hey, that’s where the next installment will be. Just because the community may not be that interested in something doesn’t mean in cannot happen.

 

1. Polls on this forum are useless.

2. Korea is still almost certainly more popular than WW1 Italy.

 

And you’re right, WW1 Italy might still happen.  It’s literally impossible to prove a negative.  
But… lol… it won’t.

[Russkly]

21 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

The occasional forum poll wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

I think it's fairly well accepted that a majority of gamers don't participate in forums - that fact alone would determine that Devs would proportionally consider forum opinion within a bigger picture of factors in determining future development.

Perceived 'demand' on here is factually correct, but one person desiring something has technically created a 'demand'.

It's not that there is a demand, it's how much demand there is.

 

No idea personally how future development is determined, but in addition to giving forum voices a little weight, I'd imagine they'd look at wider gaming trends, the direction the competition are going in, and more stuff I probably can't think of.

I expect the preferences and fancies of those directly involved would play a part as well.

 

Precisely - if forums aren't a good source of market input, then I was wondering what marketing tools 1CGS does use, because interaction with its existing user base does not appear to be a method it employs.

 

That's neither good nor bad. It is, as they say, what it is.

 

This thread is all about FC's future, which we now have a fairly clear picture of thanks to @LukeFF, but I do find it interesting to wonder about how a company like 1CGS does go about deciding its development pathways, and which marketing tools it uses to assess potential interest.

 

It's such a niche segment, combat flight simulation, and clearly the development cycles are lengthy and expensive, so development will constitute almost all of such a relatively small company's capital, and therefore a 'wrong' turn development-wise could spell ruin.

 

Korea I can kind of see, because it's a theatre that's not been touched since Mig Alley decades ago and is an iteration of late-WW2 aircraft and tactics (i.e. pre-onboard radar and missiles), but the subsequent move to WW2 Pacific, whilst perhaps of wider general interest to the combat flight sim community than Korea, will leave 1CGS butting heads with one of its competitors.

 

In a niche market segment with very players and limited new entrants due to the high entry barriers, why choose to go head to head with a competitor, especially one headed by a person with probably more experience in this sector than any other? Why not choose another market sub-segment like Italy or North Africa and let the competitor have its fun in the sea?

 

Seems odd to set yourself up for cannibalisation of sales by choosing to compete in the same space.

 

From a corporate strategy perspective I find this latest chapter in 1CGS journey rather fascinating.

 

Anyway the Pacific bit is off topic, so apologies. I shall shut up now.

 

[Enceladus828]

47 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

2. Korea is still almost certainly more popular than WW1 Italy.

But if the devs had done Guadalcanal or Sicily after BoN then you would be giving Korea the same treatment as WW1 Italy.

[BraveSirRobin]

Just now, Enceladus828 said:

But if the devs had done Guadalcanal or Sicily after BoN then you would be giving Korea the same treatment as WW1 Italy.

I bought Mig Alley and have always wanted a modern version.  I would have bought Guadalcanal or Sicily.  There is no chance that I would buy WW1 Italy, and if they did WW1 East front I might never buy a single thing from them again.

[Zooropa_Fly]

I think a product like this needs sex appeal.

 

In the case of Korea it's the Mig v the Sabre.

 

There's loads of experts, armchair or otherwise, on forums who'll talk about more obscure elements and objects within any given theatre.

The (very much essential) hardcore enthusiasts if you like.

 

But whether any such project succeeds financially or not, probably depends more on the numbers who are in it for the sex.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Russkly said:

Korea I can kind of see, because it's a theatre that's not been touched since Mig Alley decades ago and is an iteration of late-WW2 aircraft and tactics (i.e. pre-onboard radar and missiles), but the subsequent move to WW2 Pacific, whilst perhaps of wider general interest to the combat flight sim community than Korea, will leave 1CGS butting heads with one of its competitors.

 

In a niche market segment with very players and limited new entrants due to the high entry barriers, why choose to go head to head with a competitor, especially one headed by a person with probably more experience in this sector than any other? Why not choose another market sub-segment like Italy or North Africa and let the competitor have its fun in the sea?

 

Seems odd to set yourself up for cannibalisation of sales by choosing to compete in the same space.

 

From a corporate strategy perspective I find this latest chapter in 1CGS journey rather fascinating.

 

Anyway the Pacific bit is off topic, so apologies. I shall shut up now.

 

It's alright, I'll engage in a little OT as well: 🙂

You also need to remember that while, yes, said former producer does have a lot of experience, he's starting off from scratch with a brand-new team and an engine not used very much to date for flight sims. We still all have the in-house knowledge and experience about how to build a sim and, yes, the proper marketing expertise to sell it properly. If we'd wanted to do the Pacific first, we could have - after all, the carrier tech is already in place - but the decision was made to go to Korea first. And, ultimately, competition is good for the player.

[ST_Catchov]

5 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

But whether any such project succeeds financially or not, probably depends more on the numbers who are in it for the sex.

 

True. Combat flight simmers are well known as a very sexy bunch. Just look around. Civil aviation simmers not so much (losers!). WW1 Italy is a very sexy proposition. Korea .... meh.

[Trooper117]

Sexy?... even if I could be sexy again, I'd cut women out of the picture and just stick to wine and song, I'd certainly have more cash left in my bank account! 

[BMA_Hellbender]

16 hours ago, LukeFF said:

And, ultimately, competition is good for the player.

Hear, hear!

 

It’s probably the most exciting time in more than 20 years to be a (combat) flightsimmer. The great thing is that you can get people into flightsims with baby steps, such as with an affordable Thrustmaster T.16000M and RoF, IL-2 1946 and MSFS X which routinely goes on sale for a few bucks (such as right now), all the way up to enthusiast hardware with VR running IL-2 FB, DCS, MSFS 2024 etc.

[Enceladus828]

According to Luke there is roadmap of several years worth of content for the new engine. Let’s hope a WW1 series is part of that. After all, the Korea sim looks to cover what wasn’t in GBs like the Pacific. And WW1 aviation consisted of much more than simply over the Western Front.

 

 

[Tuninfogliato]

When will fliin circus vol.4 be available to use?

[BMA_FlyingShark]

2 minutes ago, Tuninfogliato said:

When will fliin circus vol.4 be available to use?

 

It's been released more than a week ago.

All you need to do is buy it and login online at least once after updating and you're good to go.

 

If it doesn't work, you should contact support:

https://il2sturmovik.com/support/

 

Have a nice day.

 

[LukeFF]

19 hours ago, Enceladus828 said:

Let’s hope a WW1 series is part of that.

 

As I've said before, it's Korea, then the Pacific. That is all that is in the plans for now.

[Jackfraser24]

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

As I've said before, it's Korea, then the Pacific. That is all that is in the plans for now.

I'm happy with that. 

[Jackfraser24]

On 12/7/2024 at 5:33 AM, LukeFF said:

 

As I've said before, it's Korea, then the Pacific. That is all that is in the plans for now.

Anything from Ugra Media? If I am upsetting you all I sincerely apologize to everyone I have offended but I have one or two things to say. In flying Circus Volume 3 and 4 I don’t think that there are enough aircraft in these packs to justify the same $115 NZD of each Flying Circus product. Look, I don’t want to be nasty and for this to be an attack on 1CGS or Ugra Media, since I think that they have done a wonderful job with all their modules, and I appreciate the fact that  adding extra planes will cost a lot of money, time and effort for both studios, but I think that having ten different planes in each pack (40 WWI planes in total) is something that needs to be granted to those who have each Flying Circus module for two main reasons. 

• 1) to make the $115 NZD price tag look more justifiable.
• 2) to get people to move on from Rise of Flight and make Flying Circus more appealing than the former by offering more aircraft that RoF doesn’t have. (other than the Snipe and SS D.IV). 

Please, take this as constructive criticism rather than a verbal attack on the developers. Remember that I admire their dedication and diligence they put in to their products. 

Edited December 10, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Davesax1965]

I've come in a bit late to this thread (ahem, sorry) but I'd very much like to see the Italian Front modelled for Flying Circus. Austro Hungarian aircraft such as the Phonix D series, the Hansa Brandenburgs and on the other side of the fence, the Ansaldo A1 Ballila would be great to fly.

Plus there's the scenery as well. 

Of course, we all know this, and it's a question of "what, if anything, could be done to add to the Western Front" as currently modelled in Flying Circus ? Not a lot, I think, unless you want to start from the very early days of WW1 aviation. Firing a Lee Enfield at an unarmed Aviatik two seater is hardly going to be for anyone but the utter die hards. 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Somebody else itching for the Italian Front.

[BraveSirRobin]

A WW1 Italy module would be a very rash decision.

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Somebody else itching for the Italian Front.

 

Well, that makes 5 now...

[Enceladus828]

3 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

A WW1 Italy module would be a very rash decision.

Care to elaborate more?

[BraveSirRobin]

16 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

Care to elaborate more?

No, with Dick_Scratcher, itching, and rash the common theme seemed pretty obvious.

[Enceladus828]

8 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

No, with Dick_Scratcher, itching, and rash the common theme seemed pretty obvious.

No it doesn’t, now please elaborate more because that front would be appealing to players with the picturesque scenery, can fly the Nieuports, SPADs and Camel over it, and also bring unique planes like the Caproni Ca. 3 bomber.

[BraveSirRobin]

18 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

No it doesn’t, now please elaborate more because that front would be appealing to players with the picturesque scenery, can fly the Nieuports, SPADs and Camel over it, and also bring unique planes like the Caproni Ca. 3 bomber.

 

Really?  Dick_Scratcher.  Itching.  Rash.  You don't see the theme?

[Enceladus828]

5 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Really?  Dick_Scratcher.  Itching.  Rash.  You don't see the theme?

They have nothing to do with WW1 Italy

[LukeFF]

Alright, this has gone on long enough.