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Eisenfaustus

What kind of module would you like to see after BoN?

What kind of module would you like to see after BoN?  

163 members have voted

  1. 1. What kind of module would you like to see after BoN?

    • Battle of France
      28
    • Battle of Britain
      23
    • Early Pacific carrier ops
      49
    • Mid-late Pacific Land ops
      53
    • Italy 1943
      42
    • Late eastern front
      42
    • Korea
      13
    • Battle of Finland
      39


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you can pick as many as you want. 
 

I‘ll start chronologically:

 

Battle of France: I‘ll guess it‘ll be the last place. However I think it has much potential. French Air Force haven’t been done yet, small tactical engagements that work well with the BoX engine and if phoney war is included a very long campaign. German planes could also be used in moscow. Could/should also include some early British aircraft. 
 

Battle of Britain: seems to be asked for quite often but I personally think BoX engine is unsuited to depict this strategic air campaign with its huge air battles. 


Battle of Finland: a little obscure it worked in forgotten battles.
 

Early Pacific carrier ops: while extremely cool the devs stated the many reasons why this is unlikely. 
 

mid-late Pacific Land based operations: propably less difficult it still has poorly documented Japanese planes. 

1943 Italy: Would need to be allies vs Italians to generate a feasible planeset. But Italian airforce would be as fresh as the french. Could also include Carriers. 
 

Late eastern front: would be a very logical continuation. 
 

korea: could be used to sneak in late russian planes and mg15 vs sabre is just cool. 

Edited by Eisenfaustus
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I'd personally be fine with any of those, but I think that Pacific, late Eastern Front, and Korea are the only realistic marketable products.

 

The battles of France and Britain would heavily overlap with the Dover series, so you'd need to create a product that's decisively better in some respect. That's no easy task.

 

I'm not sure whether there is enough novel material for an Italian scenario that can be squeezed onto a single map of reasonable size. Developing carrier tech without going to the Pacific would seem like a missed opportunity unless it's just a stepping stone.

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6 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Late eastern front: would be a very logical continuation.

 

I was flying around with a Yak-9 yesterday and I though that the Russians need that Yak-3, Yak 9U, and La-7/9 to get into tough dog fights with the last Germans planes.

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First off I want to thank and congratulate Jason and the IL-2 Great Battles dev team for all the outstanding work you've done over the last few years, despite the whiners and negative voices found on the forums (you know the ones who find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow then complain the pot is big enough;-)! This is still the best WW2 flight sim available and while things can always be tweaked and good stuff added there's a lot to appreciate in Great battles.


Now to beat a tired horse some more: I really feel that the next Great Battle should be the Pacific starting with Guadalcanal and Up the Solomon Islands. I will try to keep it short but there are a lot of good reasons to do this and many of the arguments against I've seen in the forums just don't hold up under scrutiny. First good reason is commercially there is no good Pacific theater sim out there right now and that hole needs to be filled (I don't include Warthunder as it caters to the arcade crowd and MSFS has shown that there is a market for high quality hardcore flightsims and that is what IL-2 is all about, and Warthunder is basically free so it once again caters to the cheap and the cheaters, etc.; of course it still may be fun, just not my kind of gig). Second, if I may be so bold, Great Battles needs more PR and a better presence on the PC gaming websites, cozy up a bit with those web writers etc. get more press, push the "real" sim qualities of IL-2 and a Pacific Theater sim would help generate enthusiasm in the currently exciting world of flightsims.


I heard time and again the complaint that the datasets for Japanese aircraft just aren't available, especially in regards to cockpits and gauges, but this is not really the case. I spent some time the last few weeks looking about the Internet and found a lot of good info. I found 2 books on Amazon that were entirely devoted to Cockpits and gauges, etc. and were definitely worth a look. Personally I would be happy to buy and send these books to you Jason (sorry they aren't available in Russian.....) along with others that I find if it would help the Devs. I also found a good amount of technical data on various Japanese aircraft handling and flight characteristics from a number of sources like the US AF & Navy historical branches, as well as a number of websites dedicated to WW2 aircraft. Most of this info is available as .pdfs and only a few, some of which showed a fair amount of internal structure and powerplant engineering, that actually required payment for use. I even found some very useful links on the Warthunder forums by accident though I don't participate on said forum. As far as missing info on aircraft construction, placement of internal ribbing, control cables, and hydraulics much can be inferred from rivet lines, rivnut placement, skin panels, and common known placement of control cables. There are walkaround photo albums as well as reconstruction logs from the folks who are still attempting to restore the surviving aircraft out there today. I personally am not going to complain if a hydraulic line is slightly misaligned after it leaves the cockpit area as long as it's placement is a best guess as used in constructing a plane for the sim. I have noticed that others here in this forum have provided a lot of this info in the Pacific Theater Discussion forum in the past. I can list in a followup reply what I have found, but for this post I'm only including the links to the aforementioned cockpit / gauges books below.


Another resource I think may be of use and possibly overlooked is the world of plastic modeling. Some of the Japanese model companies do an excellent job in their products and seem to have a fair amount of info available for their products. I'm not sure if they would share said info, but it may not hurt to contact them or look at the products themselves.


On Japanese aircraft carriers and ships are concerned there is a lot of info available. Good books with excellent drawings of flight deck plans, hangar deck info and weapons placement. I would be also willing to purchase some of these for the Devs, because I would dearly love to see a Pacific theater campaign come to life in IL-2 and I am willing to commit some resources to see it happen. I know the Great Battles team is small in comparison to MSFS 2020 & Asobo so if I can help in some small way why not? As far as US aircraft carriers go there is no shortage of info out there. I myself received the engineering blueprint scans of the first 4 decks below the Flightdeck of the Essex class carriers many years ago and still have them on my hard drive! Not that you really need that much detail in this sim, but it's nice to know it's available. 
There is also a bunch of data out there on Japanese weapons including explosive ordnance as well as aircraft weapons. There is even info on the destructive effects of these weapons.


I feel that an Up the Solomons approach would be best way to start. It gives everyone land based field to fly from and the Devs a chance to add carriers in a staged update delivery as work progresses. Some of the aircraft are already flying, like the P-39, P-40, A-20, and P-38 (though we would probably want a P-38F or G model to be accurate;-). Though I personally love to fly Japanese aircraft like the A6M family, Ki-84 and the George, who doesn't get excited about the F4U Corsair or the F6f Hellcat? TBMs and Aichis, Bettys and Mitchells, oh my! There's a lot to love in this arena. And if you want to keep a historical timeline the Ki44 or Ki-61 Hien are something to consider..... Let's not forget the venerable F4F Wildcat it can hold it's own against the Zero with a good pilot at the stick.

 
Also due the sheer number of islands and airbases that dotted those islands, especially as the war progressed, eliminates that tired old argument about spending an hour or two flying to combat area (that argument against the Pacific is really bogus, just the complaints of those that don't want to learn basic nav, or just want a quick dogfight and in reality doesn't hold water in this scenario). Personally I loved flying from carriers and landing because of the challenge and didn't mind the short hauls over open ocean that IL-2 1946 provided. You don't have to place the carrier groups 250 miles apart for good approximations of the historical battles of Midway or the Coral Sea, and if you just gotta be that accurate there's always the Mission builders and awesome campaign builders out there that could probably help you do it.

 
I am having a lot of fun getting back into IL-2 after a few years of non-flying and truly appreciate what we have available now, there's plenty to keep us (and the development team too) busy, but as the next logical progression of the series I think we should consider the next Great Battles to be found in the Pacific and I'm sure I am not the only one.


Both of these books are available though the second one is out of print yet can be bought online:
Japanese Aircraft Interiors 1940-1945 by Robert C. Mikesh (Hardcover)
Japanese Aircraft Equipment: 1940-1945 (Schiffer Military History) by Robert C Mikesh (Hardcover)

 

In the spirit of brevity after this long post I am leaving all the links and listings of resources out of this one, many have been posted before, but I am going to write up a list of what I've found and will post those if there is interest in pursuing this subject.

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It's an nice selection for an poll since these operations have been mentioned/requested alot in the past but I would also add Operation Barbarossa (Leningrad) to the poll, it's has been requested multiply times in the past.

Leningrad specifically would add an new nation like Finland which used an mix of multi nationalities aircraft (British/American/Dutch/French/German) and adds an map that can be used from 1941 till mid 1944.

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3 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

It's an nice selection for an poll since these operations have been mentioned/requested alot in the past but I would also add Operation Barbarossa (Leningrad) to the poll, it's has been requested multiply times in the past.

Leningrad specifically would add an new nation like Finland which used an mix of multi nationalities aircraft (British/American/Dutch/French/German) and adds an map that can be used from 1941 till mid 1944.

While I think that making an axis planeset for barbarossa/Leningrad that works (what two fighters?) is not possible, Finland would also be a great addition. 
I‘ll add that. 

Edited by Eisenfaustus

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Looks like I voted too early. I would have chosen Finland as well.

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Some thoughts on where I would go if I were the devs (and concerned about financial viability):

 

1. 1945 East or Leningrad would be nice for their Russian base (as it has been a three modules since the last Russian one). 1945 East, with its high performance aircraft and the possibility to include the He-162 (if it is set on the Northern approaches to Berlin) would also sell reasonably well with the multiplayer and American crowds. If I were them I would do "1945 East".

 

2. Battle of France and Battle of Britain are also tempting as a natural extension of the current developments in Normandy... and one might be able to sell two modules (or a module and a DLC)...

 

3. Korea would be a very different path. It would require new assets and some engine updates. However, they could then do a 1950-1955 Fulda Gap scenario directly after Korea (with additional planes that were held-back, such as the Il-28)! Two battles using the same tech. They might even be able to get a third module out of it with an 'Operation Unthinkable" 1945-1950 scenario using a mixture of WW2 and early post-war aircraft... without needing additional German aircraft (as the combatants would be NATO and the Soviet Union).

 

4. My personal favourite would be an 'anniversary edition' package which would add a couple of missing aircraft to each of the existing modules (especially AI aircraft)! Sort of like a collector plane DLC, but with multiple aircraft and other improvements.

 

P.S. I'd also personally like a full Battle of France module with the same number of aircraft as the Battle of Britain. It might be hard to be certain of the commercial success of such a module though. Even more-so for the Spanish Civil War - which might be my first pick if I had my way (combined with a 'what-if rearmament happened earlier' scenario for WWII set in 1937-1938)... but, we'd need a much larger user base to justify developing something like that I'm afraid.

Edited by Avimimus
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Salutations,

 

None of the options presented.

 

I'd love to see a more detailed map module for Tank Crew. One much like Clash at Prokhorovka but centering on The Battle Of The Bulge:coffee:

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I have to admit I would like a Finland module myself! Or Italy with Sicily. Let's face it there is no shortage of combat theaters and planes to choose from! And we all have our particular preferences in this regard. I would love to fly the Yak 3, La-7, Me-410 (not the greatest flying machine but it sure looks great!-), and A-26 Invader! And I'm sure quite a few folks here would like to see a flyable B-17 at some point. Personally I'd like to shoot some down!

 

I would not want to be in Jason's, or the Dev's shoes trying to make a decision on this as someone won't be happy no matter what. But my main vote will still be for the Pacific for a big change of pace and no matter how it shakes out they still have plenty on their plates for the foreseeable future as it is, so I can wait and hope.

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PTO - Solomons.

I want carriers too - but the islands are critical.

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PTO just to see it in modern game, but no way they gona do it. Italy because of map, but they would be crazy to go with anything els then East front 44-45 easy map not hard for game and fill in missing cool airplanes. Thats if we get lucky and get another DLC.

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I voted for Finland because it's early war, fits in with some already existing aircraft in the series and is relatively uncommon.

 

But Pacific is probably the best bet for the GB series. Leave France, Britain, and the Med to CloD.

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29 minutes ago, ATAG_Flare said:

Leave France, Britain, and the Med to CloD.

Is TF planning to do the battle of France?

 

Nevertheless - Clod and gb are very different pair of shoes. Gb generally offering better SP, UI and VR while clod has bigger engagement sizes and...

 

propably some other cool stuff that might be very relevant for its fans.

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2 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Is TF planning to do the battle of France?

 

Nevertheless - Clod and gb are very different pair of shoes. Gb generally offering better SP, UI and VR while clod has bigger engagement sizes and...

 

propably some other cool stuff that might be very relevant for its fans.

 

TF already added the D520 for some rudimentary Battle of France scenarios, the map is already there, RAF fighter types are there, and German types are already there. They have said they would like to add it at some point but it seems unlikely. They'd need to add some British light bombers like the Battle, and more French types.

 

CloD in general has more in depth systems, clicky pits, damage model is better when it comes to components (control wires, fabric fires, different parts of the engine, etc) but not structural damage, way more in depth engine modelling and no silly engine timers.

 

I get that lots of GB players don't like CloD - personally I have and enjoy both - but I just think that 1C wouldn't make any content that would overlap with their own competing sim.

 

2 hours ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

 

You said Med?
Like... Sicily? 😬

 

I wouldn't expect sicily soon, maybe Malta though? Or operation Torch, along with a 42 expansion for the channel with the 190 Mk. Vc, Dieppe raid kinda stuff.

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1 hour ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

I would like 1943 Italy Invasion and later

I once asked what a Sicily plane set would look like and after I got a response, it seemed feasible for 1CGS assuming they wished to go there.


With 1944-45 Italy I think wouldn’t really be worth it as it would likely be in 2 stages (2 maps, and then perhaps 2 battles), one being the Gustav line, the other being the Gothic line. Many of the planes that we would use in a late war Italy would already be used in BoN.

Therefore, I feel a late war Italy would be like a DLC for BoN TBH.

 

Cheers

Edited by Enceladus

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None of the above

I would like a bomber pack to someday include 4-engine bombers in an expanded ETO map with lots of refineries and major facilities to bomb like Ploesti, Regensberg etc. I think by leaving the real airwar over Europe out of this sim is a shame.

:salute:

skud

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Did the developers absolutely assume that they don't go beyond 1945? If not, then definitely Vietnam, a topic neglected by all major manufacturers of aviation simulators recently, as far as I know, but if devs do not intend to go beyond 1945, there is no topic and please do not refer to my entry.

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The developers haven't made many statements implying absolute certainty. They know that unexpected things can happen and priorities can change. However, Vietnam is decidedly outside their expertise. It's an entirely different kind of war where aircraft are largely defined by their radars, missiles, supersonic capabilities, and other technical intricacies. I don't think anything beyond first-generation jet fighters is a good fit for this team and the style of game they're trying to make.

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53 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

The developers haven't made many statements implying absolute certainty. They know that unexpected things can happen and priorities can change. However, Vietnam is decidedly outside their expertise. It's an entirely different kind of war where aircraft are largely defined by their radars, missiles, supersonic capabilities, and other technical intricacies. I don't think anything beyond first-generation jet fighters is a good fit for this team and the style of game they're trying to make.

 

I'm afraid you're right.

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Finland is just too good to be missed. How I would love flying in Finnish winterwar and continuous war 

What a treat that would be

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte
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For me Finland is a must, the diverse set of aircraft and landscape make it the place I want to fly most of all.;)

 

That said as a aviation enthusiast all the choices are worth making, especially those that have not been covered before so I look forward to what is announced next, in the mean time I think there is enough content in what we already  have to keep us all occupied while we wait.:drinks:

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.:biggrin:

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Battle of the North Atlantic or BONA seems to be missing in that list.

BONA like in "Fly for hours and hours in shitty weather conditions, day and night over the North Atlantic and help in protecting convoys and hunting down submarines".

Swordfishs, Cats, Wellies even Liberators might be doable since ASW-A/C often operate alone. So no massive airbattles, hence less demanding on the system.

Onboard systems and weapons should be ASV-Radar, Leigh-light, MAD, sonobuoys, depth charges, rockets, Mark 24 mine, retro rockets, all the high-tech from the past. How about that

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Uhm,  I would like to see Flying Circus Vol 2.

 

Unfortunately we have to deal with the reality of market forces. With that in mind, Korea has the best chance.  Jets are fun. The landscape is interesting. It opens a relatively untapped market for flight sims, China. Think there might be a lot of people in China that would love to get into a MiG 17 and shoot down an F-86? Is the addition of Chinese language to the sim a hint?

Edited by JG1_Butzzell
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1 hour ago, JG1_Butzzell said:

Uhm,  I would like to see Flying Circus Vol 2.

 

This.   Would be great to see that added to the wish list on the survey.

I note that approximately 25%of those posting comments above have been seen on Flying Circus forum/servers.

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Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once..

They are obviously going to announce FC2, 3, and 4 any day now.

The tank game will be abandoned, and ww2 fans might get a plane or two and a DM tweak in the next year or so if the devs have time.

 

S!

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On 9/13/2020 at 9:34 PM, Thad said:

I'd love to see a more detailed map module for Tank Crew.

 

16 hours ago, JG1_Butzzell said:

Uhm,  I would like to see Flying Circus Vol 2.


The question was aimed at the continuation of the gb series - not it‘s spinoffs. As much as I personally would like to see fc2 myself. 

 

On 9/15/2020 at 7:39 AM, ATAG_SKUD said:

I would like a bomber pack to someday include 4-engine bombers in an expanded ETO map with lots of refineries and major facilities to bomb like Ploesti, Regensberg etc.


While I‘d also love to see a good modern sim about the Strategic air war, it would have to be another game engine and could not be a great battles module. 

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On 9/15/2020 at 1:16 PM, Trooper117 said:

Korea... be sure.

Nooooo! Those jets...

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On 9/14/2020 at 10:24 PM, CountZero said:

PTO just to see it in modern game, but no way they gona do it. 

I agree with you in that! 

I think  Battle Of Finland can be perfect!! 

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On 9/16/2020 at 11:49 AM, Eisenfaustus said:

The question was aimed at the continuation of the gb series - not it‘s spinoffs. As much as I personally would like to see fc2 myself. 

 

If you want to limit it to just WW2 Great Battles, that's okay.  But Rise of Flight made Great Battles possible.  And even though they're listed separately in the tabs above, Flying Circus is technically apart of the GB series.  As a result, I wouldn't characterize it as a spin-off.

 

 

Edited by Stab/JG1_Klaiber
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13 minutes ago, Stab/JG1_Klaiber said:

 

If you want to limit it to just WW2 Great Battles, that's okay.  But Rise of Flight made Great Battles possible.  And even though they're listed separately in the tabs above, Flying Circus is technically apart of the GB series.  As a result, I wouldn't characterize it as a spin-off.

 

 

Fc and tc were both not done by the core team but by third party contractors if I understood correctly. Thus I called them spin-offs as they can continue or not regardless of what will be the next main project. 

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5 hours ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Fc and tc were both not done by the core team but by third party contractors if I understood correctly. Thus I called them spin-offs as they can continue or not regardless of what will be the next main project. 


It’s the initial creation of the models and textures etc that was done through 3rd party contractors. Everything else about those modules is the core dev team. And dev team added features to Great Battles series that would flesh out those modules, binoculars and blip switches for example. So I would also not characterise them as spin offs (cautious expansion of the scope of Great Battles more like). It’s the same game everything is just content within that game.

 

Flying Circus Volume 2 gets my vote also. Please add to the poll.

Edited by Oliver88

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24 minutes ago, Oliver88 said:


It’s the initial creation of the models and textures etc that was done through 3rd party contractors. Everything else about those modules is the core dev team. And dev team added features to Great Battles series that would flesh out those modules, binoculars and blip switches for example. So I would also not characterise them as spin offs (cautious expansion of the scope of Great Battles more like). It’s the same game everything is just content within that game.

 

 

FC is a separate entity from a production standpoint.

Uses the same engine, benefits from improvements, but it's not a part of the normal GB pipeline as such any more than Tank Commander is. Thus FC 2 would never be a "next installment"  and if it happens it will be an "in addition to" another GB release.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Stab/JG1_Klaiber said:

 

 Rise of Flight made Great Battles possible. 

 

 

 

Yes. And that's why it's so sad and insulting that FC and the FC community is being ignored by the devs. For how long now, 5-6 months? Of silence.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

FC is a separate entity from a production standpoint.

Uses the same engine, benefits from improvements, but it's not a part of the normal GB pipeline as such any more than Tank Commander is. 

 

 

 

Yet TC got a shedload of improvements in the recent update. FC zilch. 

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