How do I get Lorenz ILS working?

[Bobus]

Hi everyone. I've been trying to set up a night mission in FMB with blind landing with the use of Lorenz system (SBA hat antenna). However, the receiver on aircraft seems to not work at all or become alive for a brief moment and then die again. 

I've tried different planes - He-111, Ju-88, Wellington. 

Tried AI chief poweron.cpp trick with a generator. 

 

If anybody has successfully tested Lorenz landing, please could you share a *.mis file?

 

I'm using 5.024

 

EDIT: it looks like it works when you're close enough to the runway centerline, but the beam is too narrow

Edited January 5, 2022 by Bobus

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

See if this helps:

 

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34856&page=2&highlight=Radio+navigation

 

[OBT-Mikmak]

Here comes two radio navigation missions with He 111 using Lorentz blind landing system.

Launch it in multiplayer, you will find all the instructions in briefing panel.

One is during day, the other is during night.

Approaching and landing by night is a great challenge. ?

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by OBT-Mikmak

[OBT-Mikmak]

With patch 5.029, IL-2 Sturmovik Cliffs Of Dover now has a fully functional "ILS Lorenz" blind landing system with Morse code.

I updated my previous post with circuit picture .

Edited January 18, 2022 by OBT-Mikmak

[Guest deleted@7076]

Well done  ?

And what about landing lights? ?

 

~V~

[greybeard_52]

Same question in object.

 

On 1/5/2022 at 7:22 PM, OBT-Mikmak said:

Here comes two radio navigation missions with He 111 using Lorentz blind landing system.

This gives me a virus alert from Avast...

 

On 1/5/2022 at 7:11 PM, 9./JG52_J-HAT said:

https://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34856&page=2&highlight=Radio+navigation

This can't be reached by my browser...

 

Please, is there some available written istruction?

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

37 minutes ago, greybeard_52 said:

Same question in object.

 

This gives me a virus alert from Avast...

 

This can't be reached by my browser...

 

Please, is there some available written istruction?

ATAG forums - > Flight School section, Lorenz Test Mission on page two (second entry below pinned threads atm). 

 

See if you can simply navigate there. 

 

The thread has a test mission (first post and update down below on Dropbox). And instructions  on how to fly it, not how to make it. So maybe you can download the mission and take a look at its code. 

 

 

 

 

 

And the files have since been deleted... So my link has become pretty much useless. ?

@Riley I know you've messed around with beacons before, or at least this is what I remember. Can you point Greybeard to any instructions on how to set up such a mission and fly it following the beacons? 

 

 

@greybeard_52 just checked Mikmak's zip file.

It's a mission package (mission file, script, briefing etc.) from a CloD dev. All good on my end. 

I would say it is a false positive by Avast because of the scripting code. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by 9./JG52_J-HAT
Added uselessness

[greybeard_52]

I think I'll wait for Riley for some help. Thank you anyway.

[ATAG_Snapper]

23 hours ago, greybeard_52 said:

I think I'll wait for Riley for some help. Thank you anyway.

Oh, the pressure!!!! LOL

 

It's been awhile since I played with the Lorenz system, and there may have been some changes made to it since. Let me get back to it this week and see what I can find. Any input from any players here who are doing the same would be most welcome. I'll also check with the Team Fusion fellows for any helpful tips.

 

Stand by...... ?

[greybeard_52]

3 hours ago, Riley said:

Let me get back to it this week and see what I can find.

Thanks a lot!?

[ATAG_Snapper]

OK, I’ve spent a bit of time with this yesterday. I can confirm the Lorenz Landing System works quite well with the Wellingtons. As others have noted, the Lorenz beam is very narrow, which requires some precise flying on approach. Also, the outer and inner marker indicators work, but requires a low, flat approach in the Welly (Spitfire and Hurricane pilots will despair LOL). I’ve made a number of very simple missions for my trials; I’ll post one after polishing it up and inserting a detailed briefing. Daylight landings are relatively straightforward; night landings are…a challenge (even with lit landing strip markers!). The good news is that in future release versions the Wellington’s landing lights are very powerful, which helps immensely.

 

Stay tuned.

[greybeard_52]

3 hours ago, Riley said:

Stay tuned.

Yes, I am...?

[ATAG_Snapper]

So, here is the briefing for a Lorenz Training Mission that I adapted from an earlier version created by Noofy:

---------------------------------------------------

Army Red
<Description>
June 20, 1941
1730 hrs GMT

Aircraft: Wellington 1c Late

Training mission using Lorenz Beacon System at dusk. Airspawn just off the coast of Deal at 1.5 angels which gives you a good opportunity to see how both beacons (Long Range and Lorenz) operate visually with your destination (Ramsgate airfield) in plain sight. The Lorenz Beacon gauge begins picking up a signal just off Pegwell Bay, which is a good cue to reduce throttle and drop your undercarriage. Just before you reach landfall the audio signal will begin (about 2.5 miles from the airfield threshold), so you should be approx 300 feet in altitude. Drop flaps, cross the airfield at approx 100 mph, throttles to 0 and flare out for a smooth landing.

Your challenge: using your Radio Beacon (Primary Frequency = 301 Khz), then your Lorenz landing beacon (299 Khz), effect a safe landing at Ramsgate airfield (map reference BT 51.5).

For advanced training, simply change the time of the mission in the Custom screen to night (0200 hrs). 

Good luck!

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've attached the mission file below. Simply unzip it to C:/Documents>1C Softclub>il-2 sturmovik cliffs of dover>missions

 

You can then play it in Single Player/Single Missions on your PC.

 

The time of this mission is 1730 GMT which is dusk on this autumn map. This gives enough waning daylight to see the coastline and terrain, yet the airstrip lights are turned on for easy spotting.

 

You will need to assign 4 keyboard keys for: Primary Frequency (2 keys to increase/decrease) which is the Long Range Beacon, and Secondary Frequency (another 2 keys to increase/decrease) for the Lorenz Beacon itself.

 

A few tips:

 

1) This is an air spawn, so be ready to adjust your throttle and pitch controls accordingly to maintain level flight initially.

2) Make sure your radiator is fully open

3) In your cockpit view (F1 key) be ready to illuminate the interior so you can watch both the Fixed Loop Radio Compass gauge (Primary Frequency) and the Lorenz Beacon gauge (Secondary Frequency)

4) I assigned 301 Khz and 299 Khz for the Primary and Secondary frequencies simply to reduce the time required to fiddle with adjusting the frequencies.

5) Be sure to reduce speed and altitude as you approach the coastline, and recommend you drop your undercarriage before going feet dry. If you're below 500 feet with wheels down the outer marker light and beeper will activate, same with the inner marker.

 

I'm in the process of making a video using this mission to illustrate all of the above, but I wanted you to have a chance to try it first. It may be easier to try this mission in broad daylight a few times (just change the mission time to 1200 hrs in the Custom screen of the mission) - it's easy to get disoriented in the dark. For a real thrill, try this mission at 2300 hrs in the pitch black!!! At least with upcoming versions of Cliffs of Dover we'll have bright stars, Milky Way, plus nav lights and landing lights - all will be of major help.

 

Good luck!

 

Wimpey Squad Snapper Daytime Lorenz Challenge.zip

[greybeard_52]

A big thanks! I shall play the training soon.

[greybeard_52]

@Riley I tried to play the training mission but I have great difficulty. You have to be patient with me because I am completely unaware of the practices for using the device. The first problem is how to turn it on! I see there is an instrument display on the plane's dashboard, but it looks absolutely dead. I tried to vary the frequencies (after assigning the relevant keys) but nothing happens. I can't find detailed step-by-step instructions for beginners like me anywhere.

[ATAG_Snapper]

No worries.

 

I’ll explain how it all works; fortunately it’s one of those “simple when you know how” kind of things…but as you’re finding it’s not intuitive.

 

Your feedback is very helpful because I realize I should include a quick explanation on how to set up an “info window” so you can actually see the frequency changes displayed on your monitor. 
 

My Dad flew C47/Dakotas for the RAAF 1942-45 in the ETO and the Lorenz Landing System was his best friend when the weather  closed down - probably the most tense moments of his life. I wish he was still around to see this! 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

7 hours ago, Riley said:

My Dad flew C47/Dakotas for the RAAF 1942-45 in the ETO

 

 

?

 

 

7 hours ago, Riley said:

and the Lorenz Landing System was his best friend when the weather  closed down

 

 

Was that name (the original name in German, "Lorenz") used in the Commonwealth air forces at the time? Or, more generally, weren't the Allies (those who had purchased the patent) using a different name, different from the original German? Not a vital question, I'm simply curious to know.

 

 

[Volant_Eagle]

10 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Was that name (the original name in German, "Lorenz") used in the Commonwealth air forces at the time? Or, more generally, weren't the Allies (those who had purchased the patent) using a different name, different from the original German? Not a vital question, I'm simply curious to know.

Not sure how solid this answer is, but a quick Wikipedia search says it was referred to as an SBA or “Standard Beam Approach” in the UK. It also says the Lorenz company referred to it as “Ultrakurzwellen-Landefunkfeuer” or LFF.

[FTC_Oakwoodson]

18 hours ago, Riley said:

No worries.

 

I’ll explain how it all works; fortunately it’s one of those “simple when you know how” kind of things…but as you’re finding it’s not intuitive.

 

Your feedback is very helpful because I realize I should include a quick explanation on how to set up an “info window” so you can actually see the frequency changes displayed on your monitor. 
 

My Dad flew C47/Dakotas for the RAAF 1942-45 in the ETO and the Lorenz Landing System was his best friend when the weather  closed down - probably the most tense moments of his life. I wish he was still around to see this! 

Speaking of C47s...would the team be interested in making flyable transport planes down the line? Appologies if this derails the discussion somewhat.

Edited November 10, 2023 by FTC_Oakwoodson

[Buzzsaw]

4 hours ago, FTC_Oakwoodson said:

Speaking of C47s...would the team be interested in making flyable transport planes down the line? Appologies if this derails the discussion somewhat.

At this point creating flyable transports is way down on our list of priorities.

 

Edit:

 

For the Mediterranean/Malta map, we will likely introduce at least an AI version of the C-47... but that is some time away.

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Thank you Volant_Eagle!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hey Greybeard,

 

Here’s a Youtube I did on the Lorenz Landing System in the Wellington 1c almost 2 years ago. It still holds good for what we have in the current version, although the audio tone is not correct yet. It gives a steady tone if you’re in the center of the beam (which IS correct), but if you drift to the left or right of the runway’s center line the audio tone gives a series of dashes either way. What it should be:  left of the beam will be an audio tone of a series of “dashes” (as in morse code), right of the beam will be a series of “dots”.  I’ll get a fix request entered into Team Fusion’s Bug Tracker.

 

If you haven’t done so already, create an “Information Window” for Secondary Vehicle Controls. This will show you your Primary and Secondary Frequency adjustments. Instructions for creating Information Windows is detailed in the Getting Started and Troubleshooting Guide (attached below) on pg 44.

 

I’m working on an updated Instructional Video for both the Fixed Loop Radio Compass (= Long Range Beacon/Primary Frequency) and the Lorenz Landing System (= Secondary Frequency). I want to get the audio signals fixed first, though.

 

Hope this little video is helpful in the meantime.

 

Good luck and cheers!

 

Riley/Snapper

 

 

 

 

 

Getting Started And Troubleshooting Guide (2).zip

[greybeard_52]

8 hours ago, Riley said:

Instructions for creating Information Windows is detailed in the Getting Started and Troubleshooting Guide (attached below) on pg 44.

Great! THAT is what I mean for "detailed instructions"! My compliments!

 

Thanks for the video too!

[ATAG_Snapper]

5 hours ago, greybeard_52 said:

Great! THAT is what I mean for "detailed instructions"! My compliments!

 

Thanks for the video too!

You’re very welcome.

 

Please let me know how you get on. I suggest you do this during ingame daylight hours first just to get the hang of it. Next try it at dusk (1730 hrs) so you still can see the terrain to stay oriented and still have the runway beacon lights lit.

 

Finally, if you feel brave (LOL), try it at 0200 hrs in the pitch black. Good luck with that!

 

I remember as a young lad my Dad describing to me landing in foggy conditions “near London”, presumably in a C47. I was too young to ask him details that now would be of great interest (airfield location, circumstances, even the date). I do remember him recalling the intense concentration - and tension - of listening to the audio cues and maintaining his glide slope…and the immense relief he felt when “as if by magic the fog swirled away and right ahead the runway miraculously appeared” before him.

 

With the upcoming inclusion of TrueSky I’ll have to try reproducing this!

[greybeard_52]

Thank you so much! Now everything works! I had never flown this big bomber and it is impressive. But what strikes me most is the wealth of WORKING technical details that the creators have put into, and the Lorenz is one of these.

 

6 hours ago, Riley said:

just to get the hang of it.

That's right: everything works and I'm starting to get my bearings (pun unintended). What was a simple curiosity is starting to fascinate me (even if navigation has never thrilled me).

 

6 hours ago, Riley said:

I remember as a young lad my Dad describing to me landing in foggy conditions “near London”, presumably in a C47.

I can understand your father's feelings: doing it for fun will never be like reality, but it can help us understand their experience.

 

Cheers

[Buzzsaw]

On 11/13/2023 at 11:33 AM, greybeard_52 said:

Thank you so much! Now everything works! I had never flown this big bomber and it is impressive. But what strikes me most is the wealth of WORKING technical details that the creators have put into, and the Lorenz is one of these.

 

That's right: everything works and I'm starting to get my bearings (pun unintended). What was a simple curiosity is starting to fascinate me (even if navigation has never thrilled me).

 

I can understand your father's feelings: doing it for fun will never be like reality, but it can help us understand their experience.

 

Cheers

We plan on introducing a realistic night environment and night equipment to CLIFFS in the future... when that happens, the real challenges will begin.  ?

 

More details towards the end of November or beginning of December.  ??

[COA]

Hi! I have different kind of troubles: There's no chance to change frequency in German planes.  Radio Transceiver Frequency, Primary Radio Navigation both zero, nothing, Secondary Radio Navigation Frequency is on He  -  111 always 300, on Bf  -  110 nothing, only on BR -  20 only Primary Radio Navigation changes frequency but nothing detected, no NDB, no Lorenz,  nothing. I mounted all radio transmitters properly, markers too, I'm in navigation for 20 years but now I have a problem. Any help from anyone will be precious.... 

[Dawson]

17 hours ago, COA said:

Hi! I have different kind of troubles: There's no chance to change frequency in German planes.  Radio Transceiver Frequency, Primary Radio Navigation both zero, nothing, Secondary Radio Navigation Frequency is on He  -  111 always 300, on Bf  -  110 nothing, only on BR -  20 only Primary Radio Navigation changes frequency but nothing detected, no NDB, no Lorenz,  nothing. I mounted all radio transmitters properly, markers too, I'm in navigation for 20 years but now I have a problem. Any help from anyone will be precious.... 

What mission are you flying? I suggest you try Riley's mission, posted Nov.9 (above). It's a known working mission. If you made your own mission it's likely you haven't rotated the Lorenz transmitter to align with the runway.

 

You need Secondary frequency key bindings to change to the proper Lorenz frequency. Primary frequency is for NDB radio.

[COA]

1 hour ago, Dawson said:

What mission are you flying? I suggest you try Riley's mission, posted Nov.9 (above). It's a known working mission. If you made your own mission it's likely you haven't rotated the Lorenz transmitter to align with the runway.

 

You need Secondary frequency key bindings to change to the proper Lorenz frequency. Primary frequency is for NDB radio.I

Radio Nav He - 1111 day and night mission won't open, Wimpey Squad too, Only lSokol's landing mission with BR20 but without results. As I said, I'm in navigation for long time and have no problems with properly rotated and placed transmitters, their frequency  too, just airplane won't change secondary frequency from 300 KHz and primary is not appearing in any way, using NDB or HAT. As you can see on screenshot, Lorenz needle never reacted, stay dead in any situation. As Sokol's posted mission I use my own created with all available planes

[Dawson]

21 hours ago, COA said:

Radio Nav He - 1111 day and night mission won't open, Wimpey Squad too, Only lSokol's landing mission with BR20 but without results. As I said, I'm in navigation for long time and have no problems with properly rotated and placed transmitters, their frequency  too, just airplane won't change secondary frequency from 300 KHz and primary is not appearing in any way, using NDB or HAT. As you can see on screenshot, Lorenz needle never reacted, stay dead in any situation. As Sokol's posted mission I use my own created with all available planes

 

If you can't open the Wimpey mission and can't change radio frequency I'd say you have an issue with your game installation. The He111 mission is more complicated to get running since you need to run if as a server.

 

To test the plane's instrument try setting the Lorenz transmitter to 300 kHz and changing the NDB to not 300 kHz.

 

If you post the mission you made I'll try it.