New Patch has Tank main guns disabled by .50 cal and above. Also Tank reliability reduced on all tanks

[[KG]Destaex]

Not sure how I would feel about a .50 cal knocking out my main gun. 

 

Ground vehicle changes

50. KV-1s and T-34 mod. 43: the interior visual model of the gun in the mantle area has been improved;

51. KV-1s machine gun ammunition corrected (coaxial MG 25 magazines, rear MG 9 magazines, bow MG 15 magazines);

52. The overestimated combat survivability of guns, guidance mechanisms, electrical systems and radio stations has been reduced on all tanks, both detailed and simple. Tank guns can be disabled by an AP round hit of a similar caliber or multiple hits of .50 and larger caliber AP bullets;

53. MG firing sound correctly stops when a detailed tank is destroyed;

54. AI-controlled tank and aircraft turret MGs sounds corrected;

55. Some AI-controlled tanks and AFVs will fire their coaxial MGs (Humber, SdKfz-222);

56. A game and dedicated server crash bug that could happen randomly in multiplayer missions with A LOT of ground vehicles has been found and fixed;

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

I suspect it would or should take multiple hits at the same location and at rather close range to take out/disable a tanks main gun with such rounds. We'll have to wait and see  how this pans out. On the face of it.... machine guns taking out tank main guns pretty much defeats the purpose of tanks.

[[KG]Destaex]

I know .50 calibre can be effective against soft or lightly armoured targets like half tracks. But a main gun is usually pretty thick metal I would say. I would love to see examples of this happening in real life.

[ickylevel]

Now it's even worse when colliding with an obstacle damage wise. It can now literally take out the tank even at moderate speeds. It will make the invisible tree issue worse.

[Peasant]

Let's hope this game is not gonna become a "(Gun)Barrel Thunder 2.0: Machinegun Boogaloo" where the AA halftrack with 4x.50cals is the scariest thing you can meet on the battlefield.

[NoelGallagher]

hmm i think dev's love 50.cal too much lately

 

[SCG_Neun]

I also noticed that the tank cannot take the same amount of damage as before.  I'm losing tracks like crazy, or maybe it's just me.....

[MajorMagee]

There seems to be a pretty nice bump in the FPS with this update. I've also noticed that the new clouds include a lot of very noticeable color banding.

[JV44HeinzBar]

Ugh. I've never heard of .50 cals taking out tank barrels. I'd like to see some citations for the basis of this update. I've seen pics where the gun barrels were damaged by AP rounds, but never have I've seen or read that hvy MG can destroy tank barrel. This smells of War Thunder where hvy MG could damage the gun barrels, or so I was told

 

HB

Edited December 9, 2021 by JV44HeinzBar
self deleted inappropriate comment

[Thad]

2 hours ago, SCG_Neun said:

I also noticed that the tank cannot take the same amount of damage as before.  I'm losing tracks like crazy, or maybe it's just me.....

 

Yea, but a lot of players note that you are always a little bit off your tracks. ?

[ShampooX]

As somebody who's shot the M2 many times I can tell you you'd have to score about 200 hits from very close to do enough erosion damage to the metal to hurt a barrel or a mantlet  Maybe you get lucky and damage the optics.  Figure a non AP round does about 20mm penetration at 500 yards.  Did they have AP 50 in 1943?  I don't know that answer.  AP will get you slightly pen more but it'll also bounce more too if it hits a curved or slanted object.  This smells fishy, I'd like to see the science behind it.

[super-truite]

So far I have been unable to reproduce this in MP. Even with the gaz AAA, with AP ammo, I was unable to disable the gun of a panther at very close range and with at least 30 bullets or so actually hitting the gun. Also I could not destroy the tracks even at point blank... I feel useless and lonely in my ice cream truck ?

Edited December 9, 2021 by super-truite

[Na-zdorovie]

jus something, ill test this today, but i wonder if its .50 from above, as in plane attacks? the il2 for example was not a great killer of tanks with bombs, bit better with rockets but most successful with gunfire

[Peasant]

The tank gun barrels are made from steel not too dissimular to the one used in armour, so we can directly compare their thickness to a gun's penetration. From what I gathered most high velocity guns, regardless of caliber, have the same barrel thickness with the minimum near the muzzle of 40-50mm. Although .50 cal cannot penetrate this much armour with a single hit, repeated hits in a small area can erode enough material so that the next time gun fires it's barrel will burst. How much is "too much", I don't know, but almost certainly not any single hit anywhere on the barrel.

[Robli]

6 hours ago, Na-zdorovie said:

jus something, ill test this today, but i wonder if its .50 from above, as in plane attacks? the il2 for example was not a great killer of tanks with bombs, bit better with rockets but most successful with gunfire

 

I, on the other hand, have read that rockets were next to useless against tanks because of their inaccuracy and bombs were better. As bombs were also quite inaccurate, they developed these PTAB bomblets, so they had a better chance of actually hitting a tank. Gunfire is most accurate method, of course, but 23 mm VYa-23 or 37mm Sh-37 or NS-37 was used against armored targets. IL2 did not even have forward-firing .50 MG's.

 

I am quite surprised by this update of .50 cal being able to take out a tank's gun, if we are talking about something bigger than a 3,7 cm Panzer III gun.

[SCG_Neun]

7 hours ago, super-truite said:

So far I have been unable to reproduce this in MP. Even with the gaz AAA, with AP ammo, I was unable to disable the gun of a panther at very close range and with at least 30 bullets or so actually hitting the gun. Also I could not destroy the tracks even at point blank... I feel useless and lonely in my ice cream truck ?

I cannot speak for the .50 cal, but I played one of my regular missions and just got hammered, but I take solace in your findings.  Now give me an orange dreamsickle and 4 ice cream sandwiches, and keep the change.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by SCG_Neun

[Leon_Portier]

I just did a quick mission with the M4A2 against 4 German AAAs. Did get light suspension and track damage when showing them my thick sides. Nothing else though, they even ran out of ammo.

Edited December 9, 2021 by [N.O.G.F]Leon_Portier
pic

[Na-zdorovie]

@Robli, i read an awfull lot on this as was very interested ij the il2 Tank killer, which it wasnt, well good but the stories and kills were vastly over rated, each side does yes, but these were huge, the bombs were not only inaccurate but, not deadly enough (poundage) rockets rb152? biggest one maybe got number wrong, was better, but a good shot from the rear of tanks usually got them, i find this in the sim too so v.pleased.

sorry for a bit of a de rail

on subject, like NOG, i havent found any major problems so far, i have had bad runs where i lost tracks all the time but thats more like a RNG thing i think as doing same run as before np

[[KG]Destaex]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:57 AM, Na-zdorovie said:

@Robli, i read an awfull lot on this as was very interested ij the il2 Tank killer, which it wasnt, well good but the stories and kills were vastly over rated, each side does yes, but these were huge, the bombs were not only inaccurate but, not deadly enough (poundage) rockets rb152? biggest one maybe got number wrong, was better, but a good shot from the rear of tanks usually got them, i find this in the sim too so v.pleased.

sorry for a bit of a de rail

on subject, like NOG, i havent found any major problems so far, i have had bad runs where i lost tracks all the time but thats more like a RNG thing i think as doing same run as before np

Got some links or books to read on this. I'd love to read about all this as well.

[Frinik22]

 Iam sceptical than a 50 calibre slugs could damage anything larger than a kwk20 on a Panzer II Ausf. C or a kwk 36 (37mm) on a Panzer III Ausf. F. To damage a gun of 75 or 76mm and above you need to hit a tree, a hard surface or be hit by a shell. I think the devs should consult with the community before deciding to nerf or buff any vehcile or gun in TC. After all we are the ones who have to deal with the consequences.

[Na-zdorovie]

@ [KG]Destaex Illyushin IL-2 and IL-10 Shturmovik: Yefim Gordon, Sergei Komissarov: 9781861266255: Amazon.com: Books

im still away atm, but remembered that one on amazon, also i started on wikpedia which has good info on it too, ill look at others when i home, still bout week away

if i remember it wasnt the rockets were bad just so inacurate

[super-truite]

I am yet to find any excessive damage caused by 50 cal and AAA guns. I feel it is the opposite and I wish I could damage tracks with AP 20 mm or more from AAA trucks . Would it be unrealistic? It is already fun to kill commanders and blind the gunners by firing constantly at them, but I am sure those guns should be able to do a little more

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, super-truite said:

I feel it is the opposite and I wish I could damage tracks with AP 20 mm or more from AAA trucks . Would it be unrealistic?

I am not sure if there would be too much effect. Don't forget a 20mm APHE round doesn't have a lot of explosives. So it will penetrate, making a small hole and then after a certain time explode in the open area, not a small compartment, in which the blast can have some effect through the over pressure. In the free air the blast simply will get lost without a lot of effect. And the small splinters of a 20mm round won't do a lot of damage, either. You would have to hit a chain link more than one time, which is quite difficult, if the tank is moving, or the connection between two chain links.

[Frinik22]

Here's a small report on the the myth of tank buster:

 

https://www.historynet.com/myth-of-the-tankbuster.htm

 

This one also has a small but interesting article of the Normandy campaign and the overrated  German armour casualties claimed by Allies pilots:

 

https://www.operationbarbarossa.net/combat-aircraft-versus-armour-in-wwii/

Edited December 11, 2021 by Frinik22

[JV44HeinzBar]

Good read Frinik.

 

HB

[Avimimus]

I interpreted the changelog as basically stating that the ability to damage optics and machinery through vibration from many impacts by smaller rounds was now modelled... not that 12.7mm rounds could cause a structural failure of the cannon barrel itself.

[MajorMagee]

I've experienced this "improvement" already, and it's a real pain to have every AAA MG you come across quickly make you combat ineffective, until you go find some place to hide, turn everything off, and wait 4 minutes. What I didn't realize was that if you're three minutes into a repair, and decide you need to move to a better hide, the 4 minute timer starts over from scratch when you shut down again to finish the work.

 

To be fair, this exact situation is described in "Tigers In The Mud", when they would get plastered by artillery / mortars. No real damage to the tank (unless something managed to sneak in and hit the radiators), but the vision blocks and sights would all need to be replaced before they could fight again.

[[SN]_Reaper_]

12.12.2021 в 21:35, MajorMagee сказал:

What I didn't realize was that if you're three minutes into a repair, and decide you need to move to a better hide, the 4 minute timer starts over from scratch when you shut down again to finish the work.

 

I would like to look into the eyes of those who prescribed such logic of repair. It contradicts common sense.

 

And it is a clear bug that needs to be fixed as soon as possible.

[ghbucky]

While I won't argue that air power was overrated as tank killers, I read an account from a German survivor of Normandy who was part of STG platoon (and fiercely proud of it) that was destroyed by a single air attack.

 

https://www.amazon.com/DAY-Through-German-Eyes-Hidden-ebook/dp/B00VX372UE

 

Is was in one of the 2 volumes of this book where I read that. The Germans were terrified of allied air.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

1 hour ago, ghbucky said:

While I won't argue that air power was overrated as tank killers, I read an account from a German survivor of Normandy who was part of STG platoon (and fiercely proud of it) that was destroyed by a single air attack.

 

https://www.amazon.com/DAY-Through-German-Eyes-Hidden-ebook/dp/B00VX372UE

 

Is was in one of the 2 volumes of this book where I read that. The Germans were terrified of allied air.

Have not read either book but is a lot of commentary about them being fake. I cannot say one way or another but it should be mentioned when posting links to them.

[ghbucky]

Wow, it has been years since I've read them, so I guess all that surfaced since. Well, so much for that 'authority'